This is a serious problem.

[Sitchrea]

1 minute ago, Lord-Taco-the-Great said:

Are we talking forum mods or chat mods? 

Both, I believe. But that's the point - we don't know. Or at least, I don't. And I've tried to educate myself on the subject.

Just now, Goombpaler said:

On an unrelated note, I think this is the longest a thread of this nature has gone on (in number of replies) without getting blocked!

See what happens when people care? :3

[Cleesus]

2 minutes ago, Goombpaler said:

Why not both?

Most of us forum mods were picked by Reb  years ago(2013-14), I cant tell you exactly what they saw in us that made them want to pick us because we never really found out lol. 

 

The GOTL & In game chat mods are explained here: 

Not the best of answers but its all we have(NDA)

 

[Lord-Taco-the-Great]

1 minute ago, Sitchrea said:

Both, I believe. But that's the point - we don't know. Or at least, I don't. And I've tried to educate myself on the subject.

See what happens when people care? :3

I believe chat mods are taken from a pool of members of the GoTL, at least thats what happened at least once. I also believe they are hand picked by DE staff.

Edit: Pay attention to the mod above me, he knows his stuff.

Edited May 31, 2018 by Lord-Taco-the-Great

[Eldnacpeek]

1 hour ago, Lord-Taco-the-Great said:

They didn't lock mine, but it's been open for around three weeks with no response. It doesn't seem like anyone wants to take it, but we'll see. However, I've had more luck using the community inbox. Be careful you don't get a certain member who has close ties with these mods, as they seem to have a bias in support of them. However, this is just one member and should not be treated as the whole. I lucked out and got an indifferent member, who responded kindly and concisely.  

 

The fact someone feels the need to be weary when messaging the community inbox leaves a bitter taste in my mouth.

Edited May 31, 2018 by LazerSkink

[rune_me]

Just now, Sitchrea said:

I'm not really sure you understand what we're discussing. We don't want anything changed with the game - we want moderator accountability. Something that should be in place, but apparently isn't - at least to a satisfactory degree.

I'm saying, if DE thinks their moderators are doing a fine job at representing DE and the value DE wants to promote, and if DE cares more about values and standards than "making a slot machine," then trying to pressure DE into changing those values, or the moderators representing those values, would be pointless. Because DE would rather loose the money-making machine than give up on the values. Making this whole thing a mood point.

[Court_Joker]

Thanks, Cleesus. I'm now going to go see what they say.

1 minute ago, Cleesus said:

Most of us forum mods were picked by Reb  years ago(2013-14), I cant tell you exactly what they saw in us that made them want to pick us because we never really found out lol. 

 

The GOTL & In game chat mods are explained here: 

Not the best of answers but its all we have(NDA)

 

 

[DeMonkey]

2 minutes ago, Letter13 said:

Social Media Agreements, while similar to NDAs in that they exist to protect the issuing company, do very different things. Social Media Agreements can override previous legal protections afforded to workers to prevent them from being fired while NDAs do not override previous legal protections.

Sure, but I'm not saying DE should be drafting up the same agreement for moderators that they have for employees.

Hell, it doesn't even have to be a legal agreement, the agreement I mentioned was really just the closest thing to what I'm thinking. 

I'm just saying I'd quite like to see something on a moderators 'contract' that not only protects them on social media but outlines what would be considered irresponsible posting and repercussions.

That way there's far less chance of bias on any side. 

Honestly I'm just tired at the moment, so I may not be making too much sense.

[Letter13]

8 minutes ago, bugme143 said:

He originally posted that people, including GOTL and mods, don't get punished for stuff done outside of the game. Someone responded asking about that dude who was kicked out of GOTL for something he did outside of game, and @Letter13 edited his post to cover up his lies or lack of knowledge. 

I do not consider the revocation of moderation privileges as a type of punishment.

In my eyes, punishment means not being able to access the game, aspects of the game, or the forums as a normal player would be able to. If a moderator has their privileges revoked, then they are just a normal player, with normal access to the game; this is not a punishment.

Never has a user been suspended or banned from the forums or the game (or parts of the game) for things they do outside of the game or forums.

Edited May 31, 2018 by Letter13

[Sitchrea]

1 minute ago, rune_me said:

I'm saying, if DE thinks their moderators are doing a fine job at representing DE and the value DE wants to promote, and if DE cares more about values and standards than "making a slot machine," then trying to pressure DE into changing those values, or the moderators representing those values, would be pointless. Because DE would rather loose the money-making machine than give up on the values. Making this whole thing a mood point.

I don't see the connection... The point of this thread is to show how several moderators have acted not only immature, but outright hostile and cruel, and have also breached the ToS/CoC. The standards are already in place, and said mods have broken the standards. So we want DE to say something about it.

[Sitchrea]

1 minute ago, Letter13 said:

I do not consider the revocation of moderation privileges as a type of punishment.

In my eyes, punishment means not being able to access the game, aspects of the game, or the forums as a normal player would be able to. If a moderator has their privileges revoked, then they are just a normal player, with normal access to the game; this is not a punishment.

^I agree. Moderation is a privilege and should be treated as such.

[SirWolfen]

Sadly, DE has shown to be hypocritical on these issues and even though *they're looking into it* it's clear through proof shown and implied that this likely just be swept under the rug and be ignored ultimately seeing as they decide what they think is offensive and it's final say along with having really toxic people surrounding and whispering in their ears.

The video really took a deep dive into it though and it's really hilarious. I'm still to this day surprised Tell has a position of power.

[Sitchrea]

4 minutes ago, Cleesus said:

 

 

Am I allowed to say that the answer for, "How do I become a Chat Moderator?" sounds just a little concerning?

It implies there are no standards. Actually, there are no standards - the only way to become a Chat Moderator is to be selected by DE. This concerns me, because what's to stop DE from selecting potentially toxic individuals who appear competent?

See the video in the OP for how this can go wrong.

[Letter13]

4 minutes ago, Sitchrea said:

I don't see the connection... The point of this thread is to show how several moderators have acted not only immature, but outright hostile and cruel, and have also breached the ToS/CoC. The standards are already in place, and said mods have broken the standards. So we want DE to say something about it.

DE may not wind up openly saying anything about it. Like with cases involving users who are banned or moderated, it will likely be treated as a private matter. Basically, if DE decides to act, they will likely confront the moderators privately to notify them that their permissions are being revoked, and then that would be the end of it--no announcements or anything like that. The most publicly made information regarding it would probably be an update to the chat moderator FAQ/roster with their removal.

 

1 minute ago, Sitchrea said:

Am I allowed to say that the answer for, "How do I become a Chat Moderator?" sounds just a little concerning?

It implies there are no standards. Actually, there are no standards - the only way to become a Chat Moderator is to be selected by DE. This concerns me, because what's to stop DE from selecting potentially toxic individuals who appear competent?

See the video in the OP for how this can go wrong.

There are standards, and there is a system (and a lengthy review process of a user's behavior before making them a moderator), it's just not made public so that people can't 'game' it.

[Sitchrea]

Just now, Letter13 said:

DE may not wind up openly saying anything about it. Like with cases involving users who are banned or moderated, it will likely be treated as a private matter. Basically, if DE decides to act, they will likely confront the moderators privately to notify them that their permissions are being revoked, and then that would be the end of it--no announcements or anything like that. The most publicly made information regarding it would probably be an update to the chat moderator FAQ/roster with their removal.

Tbh, in that case I'd be happy with a simple, "We have dealt with the situation according to company standards." At least then we'd know they did something.

My major problem is the silence. We know nothing other than the Bungie-style, "we're listening," but that ultimately says nothing. Inaction is still inaction - I just want assurance Chat Moderators won't call us things like Idiots or PoS' anymore. Y'all are representatives of Warframe and DE - saying those type things I would think should be a major no-no.

[Lord-Taco-the-Great]

1 minute ago, rune_me said:

I'm saying, if DE thinks their moderators are doing a fine job at representing DE and the value DE wants to promote, and if DE cares more about values and standards than "making a slot machine," then trying to pressure DE into changing those values, or the moderators representing those values, would be pointless. Because DE would rather loose the money-making machine than give up on the values. Making this whole thing a mood point.

I think DE is still investigating this, as they asked me to add any evidence I have, which I've already done via ticket and community inbox. The main point I've made so far, is these chat mods seem to be rather biased against the members of chat. Yes, region can be pretty "unique" at times, but you shouldn't moderate with anger, or an agenda. I understand that certain words have weight, but only suggesting words to DE that are quote "Important to me and my girlfriend" isn't very unbiased. In a previous thread, one of the mods said he has anger towards certain players, because they can stay right on the line of what isnt and is, and they are itching to reign down the ban hammer, even when they cant. I consider this amount of anger to be unhealthy. I wish chat mods were re-trained by DE to have a "PR voice" like you see with forum mods and DE staff. That way, no anger is conveyed, thus slowly diminishing the "us vs them" mentality.

[Cleesus]

1 minute ago, Sitchrea said:

Am I allowed to say that the answer for, "How do I become a Chat Moderator?" sounds just a little concerning?

It implies there are no standards. Actually, there are no standards - the only way to become a Chat Moderator is to be selected by DE. This concerns me, because what's to stop DE from selecting potentially toxic individuals who appear competent?

See the video in the OP for how this can go wrong.

Well the reason it is vague is that there is probably a bunch of different factors they look at and its not a position that one can apply for or obtain just because they want it. So there isn't anything specific they can tell you about the process but I can assure you there is standards they use while picking in game chat mods.

[Sitchrea]

1 minute ago, Lord-Taco-the-Great said:

I think DE is still investigating this, as they asked me to add any evidence I have, which I've already done via ticket and community inbox. The main point I've made so far, is these chat mods seem to be rather biased against the members of chat. Yes, region can be pretty "unique" at times, but you shouldn't moderate with anger, or an agenda. I understand that certain words have weight, but only suggesting words to DE that are quote "Important to me and my girlfriend" isn't very unbiased. In a previous thread, one of the mods said he has anger towards certain players, because they can stay right on the line of what isnt and is, and they are itching to reign down the ban hammer, even when they cant. I consider this amount of anger to be unhealthy. I wish chat mods were re-trained by DE to have a "PR voice" like you see with forum mods and DE staff. That way, no anger is conveyed, thus slowly diminishing the "us vs them" mentality.

I agree. I've never had an issue with a forum mod. They're well-picked. I cannot say the same for Chat Mods.

[Eldnacpeek]

3 hours ago, Sitchrea said:

Y'all are representatives of Warframe and DE - saying those type things I would think should be a major no-no.

3 hours ago, Lord-Taco-the-Great said:

I think DE is still investigating this, as they asked me to add any evidence I have, which I've already done via ticket and community inbox. The main point I've made so far, is these chat mods seem to be rather biased against the members of chat. Yes, region can be pretty "unique" at times, but you shouldn't moderate with anger, or an agenda. I understand that certain words have weight, but only suggesting words to DE that are quote "Important to me and my girlfriend" isn't very unbiased. In a previous thread, one of the mods said he has anger towards certain players, because they can stay right on the line of what isnt and is, and they are itching to reign down the ban hammer, even when they cant. I consider this amount of anger to be unhealthy. I wish chat mods were re-trained by DE to have a "PR voice" like you see with forum mods and DE staff. That way, no anger is conveyed, thus slowly diminishing the "us vs them" mentality.

 

Completely agreed. A moderator, whether or not they're "having a bad day" should be in control of their emotions and realize lashing out at players is not a good thing, along with belittling and basically attempting to wage war against them.

Edited May 31, 2018 by LazerSkink

[Court_Joker]

1 minute ago, Cleesus said:

Well the reason it is vague is that there is probably a bunch of different factors they look at and its not a position that one can apply for or obtain just because they want it. So there isn't anything specific they can tell you about the process but I can assure you there is standards they use while picking in game chat mods.

Do you yourself know it and can't say? Or is answering that also not kosher?

[Sitchrea]

1 minute ago, Cleesus said:

Well the reason it is vague is that there is probably a bunch of different factors they look at and its not a position that one can apply for or obtain just because they want it. So there isn't anything specific they can tell you about the process but I can assure you there is standards they use while picking in game chat mods.

I understand. It's a double-edged skana - if DE were to display the things they look for in chat mods, they'd have the same problems as GotL with players saying, "I meet those criteria, don't I? Why wasn't I selected?"

Yet without those standards shown, I'm sure I'm not the only one who gets skeptical when situations such as the recent scandals appear.

[Lord-Taco-the-Great]

7 minutes ago, Letter13 said:

I do not consider the revocation of moderation privileges as a type of punishment.

In my eyes, punishment means not being able to access the game, aspects of the game, or the forums as a normal player would be able to. If a moderator has their privileges revoked, then they are just a normal player, with normal access to the game; this is not a punishment.

Never has a user been suspended or banned from the forums or the game (or parts of the game) for things they do outside of the game or forums.

The way Danielle worded the message heavily insinuates that it is, indeed a punishment. Not an in game punishment, but a punishment all the same. 

0:53

 

[Cleesus]

4 minutes ago, Goombpaler said:

Do you yourself know it and can't say? Or is answering that also not kosher?

3 minutes ago, Sitchrea said:

I understand. It's a double-edged skana - if DE were to display the things they look for in chat mods, they'd have the same problems as GotL with players saying, "I meet those criteria, don't I? Why wasn't I selected?"

Yet without those standards shown, I'm sure I'm not the only one who gets skeptical when situations such as the recent scandals appear.

 

 

If I knew or didn't know I couldn't tell you 👀 

 

But DE knows what it is doing even if there is a few bumps here and there I think we can all say they try their hardest to make things right.

Edited May 31, 2018 by Cleesus

[Eldnacpeek]

3 hours ago, Lord-Taco-the-Great said:

The way Danielle worded the message heavily insinuates that it is, indeed a punishment. Not an in game punishment, but a punishment all the same. 

 

All the while stating that their Guides (mods) should be respectful of everyone, especially the community. And if recent events are true, it seems they stopped enforcing this, or are turning a blind eye (but that's stepping on the verge of tinfoil hatting which I'd prefer not go down the path of).

Edited May 31, 2018 by LazerSkink

[Sitchrea]

2 minutes ago, Cleesus said:

 

 

If I knew or didn't know I couldn't tell you 👀 

 

But DE knows what it is doing even if there is a few bumps here and there I think we can all say they try their hardest to make things right.

DE obviously love their game, and we do, too. I just think we don't want a few bad apples in the chat moderation to give Warframe a bad name.

[Sitchrea]

1 minute ago, LazerSkink said:

 

All the while stating that their Guides (mods) should be respectful of everyone, especially the community. And if recent events are true, it seems they stopped enforcing this, or are turning a blind eye (but that's stepping on the verge of tinfoil hatting which I'd prefer not go down the path of).

Which is why we need something concrete. Controversies can change into conspiracies very quick if we're not careful.