(XB1/PS4) Virtual Cursor Feedback Megathread

[(PSN)Convict_Hammer]

As a player who started on PC and moved to Console to comfortably use a controller...

I really tried to give this a chance, but came here right after realizing I'm not even able to rotate my Warframe while picking a Syandana

It's just painful to navigate, the cursor adds unnecessary steps to some of the most simple stuff. Not having the arsenal shortcuts really hurts.

I'm sorry but this is really counterintuitive for controller, cursors belong to PC and I saw little wrong with the way we used to navigate on Console.

In fact, I've always hated cursor in both the Star Chart and Ayatan Treasure screens.

I don't think I wanna fiddle with this until it gets an On/Off option.

[(PSN)Nifes_Edge]

13 hours ago, (PS4)V1per_x3 said:

At first I found the UI navigation to be a bit awkward with the new virtual cursor, but the dpad functionality helps and although overall slower than what we had before from a few minutes of trying it in various menus I think I could get used to it.

However, on a whim I pluggd in the mouse and keyboard, it works great, menu navigation is amazing and fluid with the mouse and in most places the keyboard interface is working well as well.

I know this won't suit everyone, but giving us this functionality is great. It even works ingame for controlling the frame etc, however we can't customise any kekboard controls yet, so still trying to work my way around what does what.

Totally agree, ive spent the last few hours working out whats what, (why no change keybindings DE).  There are a few things you have to goe back to controller for, eg. being able to type in chat, can get the chat up by pressing T but then i have to press square so i can type.

[(PSN)GluttonousOne]

Literally the worst UI since I tried to play  PC games using mouse emulation on android 3.

[(PSN)PillarOfWar]

I don't lkke the the cursor at all . It makes everthing take for ever, like trying to pick a different cape is tedious now. 

[(XBOX)ryuraze]

With my loadouts in the arsenal, i could previously go from the very first to the very last (and vice versa, very last to very first).

The new setup completely ruined this. I'll have to deal with taking a while to go from one loadout to the other, or completely redo loadouts.

 

Also, I can no longer preview what I have currently equipped in each loadout.

 

Tbh I wouldn't completely mind these delays. However, randoms are very impatient when going from one sortie mission to the other. I'd rather not take any longer (and I don't take long in the first place.)

[(XBOX)Shottaman93]

My overall experience with the interface is horrible. If I wanted to feel like I needed to play with a keyboard and mouse I would have gotten a pc and downloaded the game. This is however one of the worst changes that could have came. It is affecting my overall decision in playing further, DE you need to rethink this concept for console, cause plainly right now this is crap!

Edited June 6, 2018 by (XB1)Shottaman93
Wording

[(PSN)FurryZenJustice]

Okay, these comments are both as a heavy user of your product and as a professional UX designer / software engineer.

I understand that the level of needed change to support the new UI required creating a common codebase in the short term that could be diverged from in a less spaghetti code like fashion. I understand that this is also our first chance for feedback. And understanding the development process, I'm practicing patience and I appreciate your efforts in trying to create something better and your willingness to take on risk with the promise of something better. Too many software companies are terrified of risk and produce boring garbage as a result.

I figure you knew that the new UI on console was going to be painful. The major pain points are really anywhere you have to activate/hover over something to activate something else. E.g.

• Hovering over the warframe in the arsenal to open up the sub-menu (e.g. equip, appearance). More on this later.

• Relic interface back and forth between selecting relic and refining relic.

• Opening up the chat, and then having to move into it to scroll.

The other major issue is that the d-pad is only partially acting like a keyboard with the concept of focus. There are so many lists (e.g. market, mods, relics, codex) where the d-pad starts acting like a cursor with keyboard focus, but it fails when it hits an edge. It breaks the metaphor when it doesn't scroll the container. I think this is one of the major areas of frustration.

Some other observations:

• The right-stick to zoom and the right-stick to open up the drone/extractor menu is creating some annoying accidental zoom issues.

• The d-pad on the fully zoomed-out navigation map is basically useless as it has "stops" you can't see.

• The removal of color for button prompts (square, triangle, etc.) has been disorienting. I imagine this is so you can theme them later. But even then I'd prefer to keep the original PS/XBOX colors.

• D-pad doesn't work at all on navigation quick view (R1 on PS).

• Right-stick to zoom zooms too quickly and typically zooms you to the point where things are cut off with a simple tap.

• Scroll bars probably shouldn't be "stops" for d-pad navigation as you already have the ability to manipulate them via the right-stick.

• In the arsenal list when navigating with the d-pan, which sub-menu is selected depends on if you came down to the parent (e.g. primary), or up or from the sub-menu itself. E.g. going to frame then down to primary then right will select Appearance, but going up to primary from secondary and then right will select Equip.

The biggest drawback to the current system, in my view, is the loss of muscle memory. I hope you improve the d-pad experience and I hope the new UI that's coming plays to the strengths of the cursor. I wish you all luck and I understand this is a work in progress. I also know that until things are improved, I'm going to miss the old UI and will be frustrated as things stand. I hope you plan on rolling out the new UI soon.

 

Addendum: I have noticed that there are a lot of bugs around d-pad navigation even based on how it's intended to work. Perhaps once some of these are fixed it won't be as much of a problem.

I guess the question I have that a lot of other people are having is: was using the d-pad to simulate keyboard navigation not possible? I wouldn't want to forgo the ability to use up/down/left/right on the keyboard in a PC application. The concept of keyboard focus is something that is unified and could serve as a useful metaphor. I'm presuming there was something preventing that though.

 

[(PSN)Nukerxero123]

But really the new system is horrendous if you want to use a controller. In the chat If I wanted to invite a dude, I could just press 'x' before and select invite from many different options. Now I have to find the damn curse use the analog stick and move it over to the person's name and then press 'x', after that I have to again move the cursor to select what option I want, whether it be invite or talk.

This is basically using how a mouse works, but using a controller to do this is stupid, when there was a d-pad that could do that much much faster. 

 

In the arsenal, foundry, and any other place in the orbiter using the d-pad doesn't work, I have to move the right stick to scroll for more mods while modding and then I have to move the left stick to to control the cursor to select the mod and then press x while moving the cursor, when before I could just press 'x' to select the mod and use to d-pad to select the location of the mod and then press 'x' again to insert the mod again. 

 

The quick access buttons in the arsenal have been removed, like 'triangle' was for modding/upgrading and 'x' was for the selection of a different weapon/frame, 'Square' was for the appearance etc. Now again I have to move the cursor over the option like with a mouse. I would have been happy to have the d-pad to do this; e.g. press right then press down and then 'x' while on the primary weapon to mod the primary weapon. This basically is adds more steps and makes it needlessly complicated. 

 We on console use the d-pad in menus cause it is faster. Using the stick wouldn't matter if it moved through the menus normally, one item at a time as, we can click faster than the accuracy of the cursor, I know that I can increase the accuracy and the speed of the cursor in the settings, but for me on a console I will always find the d-pad faster than the tick in the menus. So just allow us the option to switch back to the old controls of using the d-pad.

 

This is honestly a step back for me as a controller is a completely different device from a mouse and keyboard. There might be lot of people who enjoy this new UI update, so that's why I said give us the option to change between the old and the new. As a on a controller we were given the buttons on the right side for quick access and use, so let us use them instead of trying to turning the controller into a mouse and failing. 

 

If any console people fee the same way, and I know everyone in my clan and alliance feels the same way, comment below; and DE might do something about it. They do listen to their community more than any other devs I've seen before. 

[Jimmy_TheBear]

Lol... Awwww, sorry this thread is hilarious... Lol, its actually making me cry from laughter...

So sorry for this update guys, us PC Controller users were not loud enough to get them to not go through with adding these changes to PS4 and Xbox...   

P.S. We PC players have been trying to tell DE the problems with this new "system" for over a month now, and it's still broken... We told them a month ago to go back to the old system and didn't receive one freaking reply from them in our megathread till last week, and even still its was just a simple, "look at what we a currently working on" post... 

 

[(PSN)Boomkat_Katatah]

I hate this change. The cursor is horrendous on console. I missed out on a good reward because it refused to move over. 

 

Plus going endless waves in fissures now is a pain because I have to individually click a relic to see its rewards. I don't have all the relics memorized.

And why can't I just click square of triangle, etc anymore to change my warframe, mods and companion stuff? 

Why am I double clicking with a controller to get anything done? Inviting friends isn't as smooth anymore either. Double clicking with a controller like I'm using a mouse is uncomfortable. 

I've been playing since the game came out on ps4. Took a couple of breaks in between but this change is actually going to make me uninstall the game. I'm giving it a week. 

 

[(XBOX)gentxskynet]

Not to mention now have to 3x click the relics when you are selecting them in void fissue missions and losing out a round. I smell maybe a refund on all purchases. 

[(XBOX)Mikerophonyx]

4 minutes ago, Jimmypdp said:

Lol... Awwww, sorry this thread is hilarious... Lol, its actually making me cry from laughter...

So sorry for this update guys, us PC Controller users were not loud enough to get them to not go through with adding these changes to PS4 and Xbox...   

P.S. We PC players have been trying to tell DE the problems with this new "system" for over a month now, and it's still broken... We told them a month ago to go back to the old system and didn't receive one freaking reply from them in our megathread till last week, and even still its was just a simple, "look at what we a currently working on" post... 

 

This is sooooo brutal. Had no idea this was already an issue on PC controller setups. DE is like no more updates or streams til Tennocon. God help them if this isn't fixed by Tennocon. I can just imagine an auditorium full of angry nerds chanting "fix the UI!" They have a lot of work ahead of them. We controller users are screwed. At least now the PC controller users will have a ton of extra angry voices saying the same thing they've been saying. C'mon DE, give us SOMETHING.

[(XBOX)Shad0w Rabbit]

6 minutes ago, (XB1)Mikerophonyx said:

God help them if this isn't fixed by Tennocon. I can just imagine an auditorium full of angry nerds chanting "fix the UI!"

All Tenno I'm attendance absolutely should do this if something isn't done to fix it. Kinda hard to say something like "we didn't know you guys didn't like it" if they are saying it directly to your face.

[(XBOX)Shad0w Rabbit]

48 minutes ago, (XB1)Mikerophonyx said:

I hope, too, they address the community soon with more than just "you'll get used to it," and "we're aware of bugs and are going to fix them."

Yeah the "you'll get used to it" comment is pretty insulting to be honest.

[(PSN)FurryZenJustice]

There's a call for them to go back to their old UI, but I doubt that's even possible at this point without throwing out months of work on the UI pieces we haven't seen yet. Frankly, software only has forward. They would basically be going back and losing months of work, not just on the new UI, but everything built up and around that time.

I think people also underestimate how demoralizing it can be to work with crap code. Sometimes purging fires must be applied before new good growth can happen. I imagine they'll work out the UI pieces, but it's going to take some time and the system is going to be painful for awhile. Ultimately the new, simpler code will allow them to make big and positive changes.

I can't imagine this was a case of laziness. Software development is actually really hard. It's entirely possible to end up in this situation because they ran out of time and because this is where they got when it came time to do this release. They could have waited, but it probably would have also required that they delay a bunch of other stuff that was tied to that release -- Saryn, particle FX, etc. It really depends on when they merged the various branches. At some point you have to commit to a feature and feature set. I imagine lots of hotfixes to this are coming. 

[(PSN)KresTias]

58 minutes ago, (PS4)Imtrex521 said:

My 2¢ I hate this cursor. 9 years a console player never seen anything like it. Please make it an option  btw on PS4 region, feedback is 99% negative 12 hrs in.

playing on consoles since 1993 and have seen even worse :D 

But i feel like DE wanted to know if console players can live without old d-pad functional, dunno why and what they gonna do.

[(PSN)FurryZenJustice]

22 minutes ago, (PS4)Nukerxero123 said:

There might be lot of people who enjoy this new UI update, so that's why I said give us the option to change between the old and the new.

This is a frequent request to developers of all stripes, but it's also incredibly expensive if it's possible at all. Keeping two large-scale systems like this live at the same time probably wouldn't be possible without blowing out their development budget for those teams for years. Simplification efforts like this are designed to allow developers to move to other things rather than waste their time on difficult to update code.

I imagine this was a prerequisite for the new UI and that will likely be the staring point for major improvements. It's on an entirely different framework. The question is how much time do they spend patching this compared to making the new UI better. It's a classic problem for software development that has a unique answer every time depending on each set of circumstances.

[(PSN)Nifes_Edge]

^{I personally like this new U.I, yes it has some issues i dont deny that, but everything has some teething issues when they are first implemented.  We just need to be patient and wait for updates, im sure DE are currently working on fixes. Complaining and badmouthing aren't going to help DE need constructive feedback.}

[(PSN)Snapple_Fax]

Simply put, the update makes the many menus harder and slower to navigate.

I don't understand why DE would simultaneously remove the shortcuts as well (in the arsenal for instance).  In Excel or Word, how many people use 'Right-click, Copy, Right-click, Paste' vs. 'Ctrl+C, Ctrl-V'?  Shortcuts are essential.  

[krc473]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)FurryZenJustice said:

I imagine this was a prerequisite for the new UI and that will likely be the staring point for major improvements.

Where is the new UI?

It makes sense that it would be designed to work better with the new UI. But we do not have it. On the current UI system the changes are not great. If it was solely aimed at improving the new UI, they should have shipped together. I am just pleased we can use the "A" button instead of "X" to progress text boxes now...

 

I use a controller for PC play. I found the new system terrible the day it released (as did most others). I also provided feedback around what I did not like with it to DE.

[(PSN)KresTias]

Feel like people cant stop asking for bringing back old UI, Steve said "no". We have to ask for integrate missing d-pad functional to new UI. Bugs will be fixed, QoL will be improved.

So far very annoying only few moments: "press x again to confirm" and "Drag-n-drop"

[(XBOX)Mikerophonyx]

All this insight on software development is super helpful. This is where a ton more transparency on their part would quell a lot of upset. At this point, I think they need to make some pretty big gestures of apology for our frustration and thanks for our patience.

Edited June 6, 2018 by (XB1)Mikerophonyx

[(PSN)LucidPariah]

Why is the trade tab still 1/6th of the screen? An entire new broken cursor based menu system was added to console that can't drag or move anything! Leave the cursor system on the pc where it belongs and turn it into an option if you buy a ps4 mouse. Who tests this this crap before it gets forced upon the players!? We don't want or need a broken menu system! Make the trade tab full screen! 

Edited June 6, 2018 by (PS4)LucidPariah

[(XBOX)ShadowBlood89]

7 minutes ago, (PS4)LucidPariah said:

Why is the trade tab still 1/6th of the screen? An entire new broken abortion of a cursor based menu system was added to console that can't drag or move anything! Leave the cursor system on the pc where it belongs and turn it into an option if you buy a ps4 mouse. Who tests this this crap before it gets forced upon the players!? We don't want or need a broken menu system! Make the trade tab full screen! 

idk if DE did a actual play test of the console UI changes cause seems they just took PC based UI an shoved it into console

[(PSN)BLOOD-LINE-01]

I’d like to throw in my two cents here; console is not PC. We do not have a keyboard and mouse, nor did we ask for a user interface that requires one. Trying to emulate PC is simply not going to work. Menu navigation is slow and counter-intuitive.

Please give us an option to turn back the clock and have our very easy to navigate UI back. Or at the very least, could we just have an option that allows to use solely the d-pad again.

If I wanted to play on PC, I’d play on PC.