(XB1/PS4) Virtual Cursor Feedback Megathread

[(PSN)Ermahgurd007]

2 minutes ago, (XB1)Tatakai no Kami said:

Then they should force the PC M/KB crowd to use the controller UI. They can use their keyboards to tab around the menus like we do the controller. It would be much easier for them, than forcing console users to use a virtual mouse that doesn't work properly.

why not do both? both are very functional, with the right hardware and motivation. If i wasn't sitting in a recliner with a beer, i'd be game to kb and M. if i was playing kb, i would be game to move my hand 3 inches to the left to use arrow keys instead of mouse... why can't we force DE do give us both? 

 

Well, after Tennocon, of course. Priorities and all that.

 

 

[(PSN)MistressFortune]

Has anyone from DE responded to any of the feedback on this?

[(PSN)KresTias]

Just now, (PS4)MistressFortune said:

Has anyone from DE responded to any of the feedback on this?

yes

[(PSN)Ermahgurd007]

1 minute ago, (PS4)KresTias said:

and free founder package :D

UI is broken yes, but free stuff for what?

well, nothing, of course. but they set the precedence giving us free stuff for a DDOS that was out of their control... so never hurts to ask, heh

 

[(PSN)Boomkat_Katatah]

The relic preview thing alone is game breaking for me. This puts a halt on endless fissure waves. Not enough time to pick the right relic unless you memorize the relic and rewards beforehand. 

No hot keys anymore? I'm so used to pressing square, triangle and circle. Now I gotta drag the cursor around.

I just ran a sortie. Spy was first on the list and no one switched out their Lokis and Ivara for the next 2 because, and I quote one of the guys: "it takes too much time to switch a frame now."

[(XBOX)Tatakai no Kami]

8 minutes ago, SilentMobius said:

They did a lot of that circa U14, most of the UI design then was for console benefit,this is the flip side, other games have made this scheme work and DE needed a systemic clean slate for their new UI work. This is what we have now as as Megan said we can only go forward from here. Going back is not an option.

No game has made this work on console. They may have implemented it on console, but it has never worked. 

[(XBOX)Tatakai no Kami]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Boomkat_Katatah said:

I just ran a sortie. Spy was first on the list and no one switched out their Lokis and Ivara for the next 2 because, and I quote one of the guys: "it takes too much time to switch a frame now."

 

Yep, I'm not sure if I can force myself to interact with the arsenal and Foundry now. I'll probably be doing sorites with whatever loadouts I have and then playing something else. I've got Reactors and Catalysts to assign, yet I just cannot bring myself to open the arsenal and try to work the new UI to allocate them.
 

I thought I started building a new gun in the foundry today. But I didn't click it enough times to start it. Now I can't be bothered going back in to build it.

[(PSN)Stronok]

Me No likey. Can't update my frashion frame now without getting frustrated. Cursors are fine but let use see previews of the items instead of needing to select them, and i want to be able to rotate my WF without having to place my cursor on it. You know... like before...

[(PSN)Cerberus108]

Fully agree with this... I have been playing this game on PS4 a long time now, and out of every update that has ever come along,  this menu system is by far the worst thing I have ever seen. Please DE... rollback the changes I am begging you...

 

I still cannot beleive how much trouble I went through to equip my Saryn for today's sortie, not to mention the way mods are handled...

[(PSN)Stronok]

Oh and if we must be doomed to cursor UI on console please link it to the touch pad on the PS4.

[(PSN)SnowMadClaude]

Hey DE, this is a copy of a post I've made on our own clan forums, starting up a discussion on what I like/dislike about the changes to the cursor/UI interface & how it could be improved upon. Hope you see it an have a read - some good ideas in there, that'll make it a bit easier to use and more intuitive on console (I'm on PS4, so any button  shortcuts are with that in mind). Have not mentioned rotating your frame in the armoury, which is currently a pain in the butt - have to move the cursor over to it first, where as before could just push the right stick left or right.

Hey fellow rage county peoples,
thought I'd start a thread on the changes to the User Interface that happened with the latest update, ways to make it a bit easier to use, and snowball ideas around that would work with the insistence of using a cursor.
First one lets get the elephant out the room - it seems DE want to meld all their UI's together as one, so all 3 formats, PC, XBox, PS4, all have the same UI. From a developer standpoint this'll make their job easier, but from a console consumer point of view - it's a bit sh*t. With PC dragging & dropping stuff, double clicking, etc is second nature, we do it all the time. Consoles this is not the case and it just all feels a bit off. Cant think of another game where I've had to drag & drop key items in a game - particularly ones that I'll be using a lot, like Mods.

Pro Tip
Go into Game Options and speed up the cursor to around the 200-250 mark, at the moment it is set at about 50, and it feels incredibly sluggish. Speeding up the cursor makes it a lot faster getting from point to point with it, although found at max it was a bit too quick for me and I'd overshoot stuff.

Early access cursor/beta test

It feels like this new cursor is a beta test for the future UI update that they've shown off in dev streams over the last month. There are some things that are good, and feel quick, things that feel designed for PC rather than consoles and some that are just plain terrible. The updates for console have been brilliant in the past, but this feels like a hashed together beta test, not up the standard we've been used to from DE - we've been spoilt for a while, and this feels particularly bad because of that.

Positives

It looks good. The cursor changes, icons, etc look good. (Not including the almighty balls up that's gone on with the dojo lighting, obvisously).

Scrolling through the menus is pretty quick with the right stick, feels snappy and fast. Opening the start button menu and being able to move the cursor directly to where I want it does work, and once you get used to it feels quicker than the previous option. This is particularly true for hovering over people to see their gear, you can scroll directly to them. 

Scrolling through Mods and weapons, etc, is quick, with the right stick - the selection/installation of stuff needs work, but scrolling through 100's (1000's?) of mods is fast.
Being able to select players names and access the talk/inv/etc menu from the chat window is good.


Feels like it should be on a PC - these are pretty much all negatives! And other negatives

There is stuff that feels like its designed for PC, which does not suit console and is really un-intuitive.

The really big, main one here, is equipping anything. 

Starting in the armoury, the equip, upgrade, appearance shortcut button presses are gone. This is a major mistake for console. The selection boxes are quite small, and a thumbstick is not as accurate as a mouse. Clicking these with a mouse - simple, using a thumbstick - takes extra time additional movements required to get to where you want, not what you expect on console. Console UI should be easy to use, require the simplest actions to achieve what is required. Part of this is due to the limited accurate control with a thumbstick when compared to a mouse.

Selecting frames/weapons that you want to equip - navigating the window works well you can scroll quick and move the cursor to the frame/weapon you want quickly, but, double press. This feels really odd on console. Understand you want 1 press to highlight the frame/weapon so that it compares stats to your currently equipped frame/weapon, and a second to equip. But back to the streamlining of button presses/commands for console - moving the cursor over that frame/weapon should bring up the comparison, without having to click the item, then 1 click to equip it. This makes sense, is faster, requires less input (way too many redundant button presses atm).

Upgrading frames weapons. Installing mods is sh*t. Click, hold and drag is a damn nightmare and really un-intuitive on console. Scrolling through the mods as said before is fast, but selecting and installing them, god damn that feels like it's gone backwards. You used to be able to click on a slot, the select a mod to go in that slot; or select a mod then select a slot for it to go in. Simple, easy, great on console. This could work with the cursor, by getting rid of the drag bit. Let us click a mod to select it (ONE button press) then select the slot it needs to go in, or the other way around, select a slot, then the mods for that slot. This is how it's worked before, and would be fast with the quick scrolling using the right stick.


Chat window.

Selecting people directly from the chat window - great, makes sense with the cursor. However, this does not work consistently. Sometimes the menu will open, other times it just will not work. At all. Had to invite someone using the invite box at the top of the screen as the drop down menu would not work in the chat window.

Scrolling is not as good. Scrolling the chat pane is very slow using the right stick. You've implemented a slide bar on the side, but this is very small for use on console, and again, click hold & drag is not a typical console action and feels weird. Simple solution - speed up the scrolling in the chat window with the right stick and get rid of the slide bar.

Alphabetical sorting - god damn this is broken. Used to work with the d-pad, you'd be locked into that box until you exited it, or selected a letter. THIS WORKED. Now you have to scroll over to it with the cursor, finely tune your selection (again small movements, selecting small items with a thumbstick) and then select the letter. It's bad.

D-pad selection of drop down boxes, people menu, etc. This does not work. Select a player with the cursor and use the d-pad to choose what you want does not work. You get the x symbol pop up on the command you want, but when you press x it opens wherever the cursor is located. Basically the cursor is not moving with the d-pad like on other menus. Closed about 5 player chats when attempting to invite them to a game yesterday due to this problem. The cursor not moving with the d-pad presses on drop down menus is the problem here, and again in this situation it's easier to use a d-pad - small things to select!


Star chart.

Simple one - when zoomed out all the way the selection box for the planets is way too small for console - small icons, thumbstick selection again! (this problem is getting old already!)

Have had a glitch where I was stuck in the star chart for about 5 mins, could not exit it or use any other commands, even in the pause menu.


Trade post selection

Selecting a player to trade with from the trade post requires unnecessary button presses. Move to them with the cursor and press x to select, then have to press square to trade... why the 2 button presses, just click the play to trade with once.


Stuff I've not used

Relic screen, market, fissure missions. Have read on the forum there are problems with these (think the market was rotation of stuff and is fixed).


Final thoughts

As has been shown in the previous dev streams there is a whole new UI coming with a single vertical scrolling selection pane on the left of the screen, and the interaction pane on the right. I think that a cursor will work with this, but needs some changes to make it function adequately, or even successfully, on console as compared to PC. Click, hold & drag has to go, it feels terrible on console, the ghosted mod moving around look rubbish, and it doesn't work well. Having click to select (mods already pop up to show full info when you hover over them, so make it so they are highlighted when you click on them). The short cut button presses for equip/upgrade/appearance need to come back, as they make navigation on console so much quicker and easier. The D-Pad functions need work (at the moment they are barely functional at best). Selection boxes need to be made larger for some things as the thumbsticks on controller are no where near as accurate as a mouse, so small icons are difficult to select.

Again I think this will work, with a few changes, and could be very good. Just needs to be tailored a bit better to console use rather than a weird PC/console hybrid. Leaving in the previous navigation methods for console could have helped quite a bit, either as a dual command type thing, or an option in the menus.

 

Please have a read through and hope this make some changes to how it's being implemented

Keep making this great game we all enjoy, thanks for all your work!

[(PSN)Hard-N-Stiff]

Hi, i am so sorry to trouble you, i am new to warframe, i've bought Plat so i have supported your game.

Due to new UI (user interface) on PS4 update today instead of closing tab ( whisper chat) it rushed something in my founder and it only had 2 hours left (25plat) gone

Personally i think it was a game bug or human error

please check my account i've never rushed anything as proof

i am willing to wait 12hours again if you can refund my 25plat?

Please help and many thanks for your support and time

[(PSN)Ermahgurd007]

4 minutes ago, (XB1)Tatakai no Kami said:

Yep, I'm not sure if I can force myself to interact with the arsenal and Foundry now. I'll probably be doing sorites with whatever loadouts I have and then playing something else.

LOL! Limbo and spin to win scoliac for the win.... until they break them. choose loadout...why?

 

[(PSN)MistressFortune]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)Hard-N-Stiff said:

Hi, i am so sorry to trouble you, i am new to warframe, i've bought Plat so i have supported your game.

Due to new UI (user interface) on PS4 update today instead of closing tab ( whisper chat) it rushed something in my founder and it only had 2 hours left (25plat) gone

Personally i think it was a game bug or human error

please check my account i've never rushed anything as proof

i am willing to wait 12hours again if you can refund my 25plat?

Please help and many thanks for your support and time

You may have more luck submitting a support ticket. Chances are this post will be overlooked.

[(XBOX)Kavriel]

There are a few things you never do on console interfaces.

Cursors

Double clicking

Drag and drop

Spreadsheets

 

With this update they've added three taboos in attempt to diminish the fourth.

I am not a fan of cursor based interfaces to begin with, even on Windows I tend to use keyboard shortcuts before clicking something if I have the option. That being said, there are exceptions ; Doom 3 had a neat system, and a couple others I can't think to name where the cursor auto-centered when releasing the stick. Because of that I genuinely tried to give this a chance.

I play Warframe on every system. I slack on the PC version because this game is generally unsuited for keyboard play. I rarely mod my equipment because the interface is a hassle even with a mouse and keyboard. When the gamepad updates came to PC I was thrilled, finally made it to the Second Dream even, but I still missed the shortcut keys - especially for the arsenal screen. The only thing I really liked about the PC interface was being able to zoom in and out freely on the starmap.

Now the controls are on console, and they feel worse than they did on PC. basic functionality is removed and cursors added to screens that have no use for them. We weren't even given an option to revert as was done with some experimental controls in the past. Even the starmap feels broken, and it already had the cursor!

I had thought the D-pad was going to be enabled with the original left stick functionality while the left stick became the cursor, basically add a cursor to the existing system in a potentially handy upgrade, instead the console interface was simply stripped entirely and replaced with a meticulously flawed PC interface.

If they wanted to avoid reemplimenting console controls each update, the logical thing to do would be to integrate the system to PC, then apply a toggle dependant on input device - not trash one system and expect the other to just work.

I'm hoping it will work better with the new UI that's yet to come, but I doubt it. Dragging and dropping mods or pointing and clicking buttons will never be practical with a controller designed for twitch reflexes, even if the UI consists of tiles. Might as well try coding the game with a controller.

[(XBOX)Lord Vipr]

Please give us the option to use the new interface navigation or the new one. It feels slow and frustrating to the simplest tasks

[(XBOX)Tatakai no Kami]

11 hours ago, SilentMobius said:

We got a lot of the PC interface simplified beyond what many were happy with back in U14 because of consoles, we got over it. Now you have a similar thing to get past.

This is what you have, it's stepwise refinement on this model from here on out. I suggest trying to be a part of that.

Simplified. That's the operative word here. This UI has not been simplified. it has been overly cluttered with redundant button pushes and the need to use two sometimes 3 different controls just to scroll a screen and select what you want. 
I'm going to say this very politely This thread is not for you. You are not interested in reading what people are saying just rejecting all criticism and feedback with nonsense that doesn't apply. DE will not give you a job for being their guardian in this thread. Please just stop, Your replies are actually causing this thread to heat up.

[Airwolfen]

The sacrifice UI should bring a lot of it back from what I could see. So this seems to mostly be a move to align builds to make consoles compatible with its introduction.

[Jimmy_TheBear]

Lol... Love how this has been a thread in "general feedback" for less than a day, and it already has the most replays in the "general feedback" form of all time... 

But w/e I guess DE will clearly keep ignoring all of this...

Challenge for anyone reading this... Atm, there are 24 pages of replays, can anyone quote from a page that is >24 with the words,"this is the best update to UI controls todate" or something along those lines??? 

[(PSN)Ermahgurd007]

16 minutes ago, Airwolfen said:

The sacrifice UI should bring a lot of it back from what I could see. So this seems to mostly be a move to align builds to make consoles compatible with its introduction.

i just hope that alignment include a 2.3x multiplier to our plat to square with the PC market. :-)

 

Oh, and that they get to tell PC they no longer get 75% off plat purchases... :-)

 

 

Edited June 6, 2018 by (PS4)hubris_007

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

Used it a bit more... Still hate it, but not game breaking. Not quitting this game, but really upset that DE is making this change and steve and megan just telling us out right that were stuck with it.

Edited June 6, 2018 by (PS4)big_eviljak

[(PSN)leijona83]

Simply take the cursor of ffs

[Airwolfen]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)hubris_007 said:

i just hope that alignment include a 2.3x multiplier to our plat to square with the PC market. :-)

 

Oh, and that they get to tell PC they no longer get 75% off plat purchases... :-) 

Yeah, yeah, very funny.

But you know that that's not how it works.

all in all though both systems needed to be the same so the new UI can cross over without needing a complete port to another system. Suggest you look into the sacrifice UI as its pretty neat for both mouse and keyboard AND controllers.

[(XBOX)B0NGR1P54JESUS]

Please PLEASE...give the option to pick old or new UI. The new UI is absolutley terrible. Much slower to navigate and customize loadouts. Trade chat is a nightmare without a mouse and keyboard, new UI NOT suited for controller like the old one was. 

Edited June 6, 2018 by (XB1)B0NGR1P54JESUS

[(XBOX)baazfury]

MR 22, ready for MR 23 test, 800 some odd hours playing on XB1. I've spent a lot of real world cash on this game, because DE deserved to be compensated and I was happy to spend on the game. I'm holding on to my wallet for the present, in the hope that this update scheme gets fixed back to what it was or something much better. As it is, this is not fun.

This virtual cursor UI is a step backward. It is slow, too many steps, and not user-friendly. Losing the hotkey selection in the arsenal to this cursor is pretty bad.

About the only thing I like with the update is the larger text in the chat/trade window. Navigating that section is also very bad.

Cursor, left stick, right stick, D-pad. I thought Warframe was complicated before, but this update requires arcane knowledge and experience to operate.