'The Sacrifice' End Game Content (Spoilers)

[DisasterIncarnate]

lack of a quest reward?  you mean apart from a max rank umbra frame complete with weapon and new mods?    er right....

[E-N-E-R-G-Y]

2 minutes ago, DisasterIncarnate said:

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Pretty sure the sacrifice is "all" the people who got turned, which you really should have guessed from the old dood in his bed that ended up killing his son, his humanity was certainly sacrificed, and a whole bunch more poeple in order to try and bring a controlable warframe to fruition which we all sit here controlling with our operators.

 

well said. bummer though, thought I was gonna sacrifice my tenno kid for some op ingame mechanic.

[Beartornado]

Spoiler

Who did we sacrifice?

It never said we made a sacrifice. This quest was about the repercussions of Margulis' sacrifice, specifically how it affected Ballas and the hand he played in the fall of the empire and the warframe project. I like Energy's answer above me too.

 

What choice were given to concerning them? What? who was sacrificed?

The choice isn't here, they have yet to really flesh out what the alignment system does. But it does have great implications for what could be done. If they returned Lotus to us now then it's just months with a simple lotus replacement without any real work. Now they have the time to actually give us the option to make a real choice down the line, assuming they ever plan to do something with alignment.

 

Where is the romance between Lotus and Ballas? He took her by the hand man

The love was between Margulis and Ballas, but there was no romance, only vengeance from her death handed out by Ballas against the entire empire, including towards the unfortunate Dax soldier who spied on him and was forcefully turned into Excal Umbra.

 

Why did evil deeds result in sun icons and vice versa?

This confused me, but this is more DE's failure to explain what exactly each alignment is. We see light and dark as good and evil, but it's not necessarily that simple either. It could entirely be DE mixed up the responses here too, but if that doesn't get a hotfix in the next 24 hours then it's up for debate. The only certainty is that Neutral means "no strong feelings either way."

 

Why isn't the new melee a dual big two handed Nikana weapon like the melee rework? what how what?

I suspect that's because the melee rework is still a ways off, and might be coming with the new sentient frame.

 

AI Umbra? Awesome but why not AI 2.0? Umbra spectre + AI Umbra? try it.

*shrug* we'll see. Fingers crossed for AI 3.0, they'll need to put more control in the players hands to avoid getting your Umbra auto-deleted at higher levels if you wanna whip out your operator. This was noticeably mitigated in the final fight for me by the fact that I'm a die hard Unairu user and could stealth/shield Umbra in operator mode.

 

Why was it short and sour?

Because life is pain, and life is extra pain if you lived under the Orokin empire and spied on the mentally unstable executor who is planning to betray the entire empire and make you share his suffering.

 

Edited June 15, 2018 by Beartornado
roar

[HorridaMessor]

1 hour ago, Pent_ said:

hey made the lotus do an uncharacteristic 180

I've been saying that she will do this for more then a year now - and I'm not alone in this. Many people saw it comming. What wasn't expected (fo rme at least) is Ballas working with Sentients

[artemisfortune]

Just now, HorridaMessor said:

I've been saying that she will do this for more then a year now - and I'm not alone in this. Many people saw it comming. What wasn't expected (fo rme at least) is Ballas working with Sentients

Predicting bad writing doesn't make bad writing okay.

[Campaigner]

39 minutes ago, Beartornado said:

The vitruvian tablet he left behind that we found, the thing the Tenno were slowly unlocking, he intentionally sent that to Hunhow and it detailed the secrets of how the Warframes are remotely controlled by void children. The Excalibur Umbra was formed from a Dax who spied on and found out this betrayal Ballas orchestrated which is why he was forcefully converted and tortured the way he was. That's what the whole exchange between Ballas and him was in the memory.

This quest bridges the gap between it all, Ballas has allies in the sentients, he brought about the destruction of the empire out of grief for the loss of his lover Margulis. He kept seeing a common theme of the creations of the Orokin turning against them and so he picked the winning side and possibly even made a deal that would save his lost lover (though that is unknown at this time now that the Natah sentient has returned to Tau).

All of his actions are vengeful, he's likely just as mentally broken as Excal Umbra was on some level. Given how things turned out I suspect both he and Hunhow were unexpectedly betrayed by Natah, and maybe the next quest will reveal that what remains of Margulis had a hand in the betrayal that destroyed the Orokin but preserved the Tenno/Warframes who were merely victims of the Orokin's cruelty.

Lotus is at best an amalgamation of Margulis(human/Orokin) and Natah(sentient), they both care for the Tenno but they are tied to Ballas and Hunhow as well, one as a lover and the other as the offspring. But I guess those answers are for the next quest, presuming the man in the wall doesn't take the spotlight first.

Yes he clearly wants Margulis to come back through Lotus somehow, but now I want to know how Lotus acquired Margulis' corpse in the first place. Maybe Ballas brought it to them hoping to bring her back? But why? How? Sentients can't control living matter, that is the realm of Helminth. Maybe instead of taking immortality kuva like Ballas, Margulis left behind cephalon-like remnants? Is that what lotus added to herself? Maybe Natah and Margulis were the same person all along?

One question is answered, many take its place.

Edited June 15, 2018 by Campaigner

[Doom_Bunny]

Spoiler

 

• It is not us who Sacrifice, it is the orokin and what they Sacrificed for progress and dominance.
• What even is this second question?
• Margulis will probably have more answers about relationships (especially since Lotuses ending line). But this quest is mainly about the Warframes and building them. Taking her away means the tenno must make their own decisions and conclusions about the past and present. Hooray for growing into an adult.
• I don't know bug maybe?
• Melee, big katana, and new warframe are slated to be with Venus open-world not Sacrifice.
• Now you're just asking for things.
• Oh no, I have feelings, oh god! It's story that solidifies big parts of the lore. The fact that they can make you feeling anything at all in such a short amount of time is only a testament to how good it is. Would you rather it be dragged out by build times. Perhaps; long and boring; or medium and temperamental are more your pace?

If anything you're not happy because the quest is not conclusionary or wholesome at the end. Rather we experience the climax only for another build up to begin.

 

 

 

[Campaigner]

"But you have never had to sacrifice your love for faith. Imagine. To live, forever, with only one memory: seeing the one you love, die. But you won't have to imagine..." -Ballas

He let Umbra feel this pain by forcing him to go through a similar ordeal. Both Umbra and Ballas wanted to save their loved one, but they were powerless to do so. When Ballas was reunited with Margulis (really Lotus?), he finally forgives Umbra and puts him out of his misery.

MARGULIS WAS THE SACRIFICE. Ballas's sacrifice. Umbra was created to be a living embodiment of Ballas' pain.

Edited June 15, 2018 by Campaigner

[Gweredith]

I was talking about this one item in particular, never said that we lacked in quest rewards... Also, we knew what warframes were made of for years, only people who didn't bother to research the lore found this new.

[HorridaMessor]

 

1 minute ago, Pent_ said:

Predicting bad writing doesn't make bad writing okay.

I don't see "bad writing" in Lotus 180 turn. I'm not saying that DE has excelent story writing, but saying that Lotus betrayal is a bad writing because its "uncharacteristic for her" is just wrong. You may not agree with the direction their plot is going but automatically dissmiss it as "bad writing" is just (for the lack of better words) screwed  

[TARINunit9]

1 hour ago, Pent_ said:

Yeah, DE doesn't really know how to write compelling stories, so they made the lotus do an uncharacteristic 180 as a reason to move us towards the Tau system.

Uncharacteristic? Her number one fear in the Natah quest was being turned back into Natah. I think Ballas sold her out like he sold us out to Hunhow, i don't think she just woke up that morning and decided "hey, I'm going to rejoin the race that i betrayed in the past and which probably wants me slowly tortured to death"

[artemisfortune]

Just now, HorridaMessor said:

 

I don't see "bad writing" in Lotus 180 turn. I'm not saying that DE has excelent story writing, but saying that Lotus betrayal is a bad writing because its "uncharacteristic for her" is just wrong. You may not agree with the direction their plot is going but automatically dissmiss it as "bad writing" is just (for the lack of better words) screwed  

What tipped you off that she would do this 180? Was it how she constantly calls the players her children? Or how about how she helped them at every turn with maybe one arguable exception?

[artemisfortune]

Just now, TARINunit9 said:

Uncharacteristic? Her number one fear in the Natah quest was being turned back into Natah. I think Ballas sold her out like he sold us out to Hunhow, i don't think she just woke up that morning and decided "hey, I'm going to rejoin the race that i betrayed in the past and which probably wants me slowly tortured to death"

I guess this is a fair argument, but the "I was able to keep my cool this whole time but now I can't for some reason" and the fact that she still recognizes the tenno is dumb. Plenty of shows and stories pull stuff like this, and it's bad each time.

[WhiteWingCat]

I'm more concern lotus didn't meant to be the "Natah" she once was. But we'll see about that when the NEXT CINEMATIC came..

[Culaio]

15 minutes ago, DisasterIncarnate said:

lack of a quest reward?  you mean apart from a max rank umbra frame complete with weapon and new mods?    er right....

I think he means the fact that after you finish it you have nothing left to do previous cinematic quests given us new title sets with new mission and new weapons that we have to level ourselves, which meant we still had some stuff to do after we finish quest.

[E-N-E-R-G-Y]

4 minutes ago, Campaigner said:

"But you have never had to sacrifice your love for faith. Imagine. To live, forever, with only one memory: seeing the one you love, die. But you won't have to imagine..." -Ballas

He let Umbra feel this pain by forcing him to go through a similar ordeal. Both Umbra and Ballas wanted to save their loved one, but they were powerless to do so. When Ballas was reunited with Margulis (really Lotus?), he finally forgives Umbra and puts him out of his misery.

MARGULIS WAS THE SACRIFICE. Ballas's sacrifice. Umbra was created to be a living embodiment of Ballas' pain.

Confusing as F.

[DisasterIncarnate]

1 minute ago, Culaio said:

I think he means the fact that after you finish it you have nothing left to do previous cinematic quests given us new title sets with new mission and new weapons that we have to level ourselves, which meant we still had some stuff to do after we finish quest.

that should be expected, they are after all just small minor side quests, their not major game expansions.

[TARINunit9]

3 minutes ago, Pent_ said:

"I was able to keep my cool this whole time but now I can't for some reason"

I am... confused what you are talking about

3 minutes ago, Pent_ said:

and the fact that she still recognizes the tenno is dumb

Not really. If my theory is correct, she's being brainwashed, not memory-wiped

[Polymerase]

5 minutes ago, Campaigner said:

"But you have never had to sacrifice your love for faith. Imagine. To live, forever, with only one memory: seeing the one you love, die. But you won't have to imagine..." -Ballas

He let Umbra feel this pain by forcing him to go through a similar ordeal. Both Umbra and Ballas wanted to save their loved one, but they were powerless to do so. When Ballas was reunited with Margulis (really Lotus?), he finally forgives Umbra and puts him out of his misery.

MARGULIS WAS THE SACRIFICE. Ballas's sacrifice. Umbra was created to be a living embodiment of Ballas' pain.

This is a deep analysis. I like it and i couldn't agree more. The characters involved in this story are quite complex in their behaviors. I guess this is why the whole plot is so engaging and entertaining.

[NodDragon]

I just wish I could have kept Umbra-Ordis

[Campaigner]

1 minute ago, E-N-E-R-G-Y said:

Confusing as F.

You expect vain, immortal Orokin gods to express themselves in a more simple fashion?

[Gweredith]

3 minutes ago, DisasterIncarnate said:

that should be expected, they are after all just small minor side quests, their not major game expansions.

Calling this a small minor side quest...

 

[E-N-E-R-G-Y]

• Spoiler

  And also, where are the cool operator Bandana? Only see the blind fold 

   

Edited June 15, 2018 by E-N-E-R-G-Y
Banana -> Bandana

[Omnimorph]

Enjoyed the quest, but it seems like every time DE introduces more "major" lore, it creates more confusion and makes the individual Warframe stories seem like dangly bits. 

ofc it's all #firstworldproblems stuff, but it's the niggly kind of itch you want to scratch.

I thought they had a neat idea with the warframes being (apparently) specially-built creations (always figured they used some infested bio/nanotech anyway) tied to particular Tenno, expressing each "dreaming" kid/Tenno's vision of a sort of superheroic figure channeling void energy in some way they had affinity with ("dream of what you want to be").  The Primes were the original frames used in the great war, each tied to particular Tenno, and they all had origin stories or first appearance stories (the stories being about the Primes).

But now, if they start introducing Umbras per frame, all that's out the window, and the Umbra IDEAS must have pre-existed the Primes/Tenno, in which case they're no longer tied to some particular expression of Void energy by a particular kid/Tenno according to their particular fancy in their particular "dream." 

So the IDEAS for the very original (pre Prime) umbra frames must have been invented by the Orokin, I guess, just as fanciful designs to mutate Daxes into?

Edited June 15, 2018 by Omnimorph

[Hunter.Ace]

primes are just excessively obedient soldier while umbra has a bit of conscience.

both have same origin. umbra is like a prototype imo