Titania's Razor-wing Self harm problem

[Disifere]

In light of a possible Titania rework I would like to chime in on her Razorwing and a specific problem I have with it.

So I was levelling my Titania post Forma dump update (on hydron- This is kinda important?), when I came to realise that there seems to be this weird problem with Titania's Razor wing. The problem occurred when I tried to melee enemies, and what ever it is, it resulted in me being instantly downed.

The process is pretty much as follows:

See enemy(ies), Spam E, Suddenly you need to be revived.

SO to explain my theory we need to make clear that, flying any faster then just pressing FORWARD, will result in self damage. 

Theory:

Due to the incredibly rapid movements (In what seems to be somewhat random directions on the X,Y Axis) that occur when using melee in Razor Wing, one touches the ground/wall etc. (indestructible surface) it results in the Bleedout state.

Now throw the Razowing Augment into the mix, and forget flying all together as self damage alone from that(flying into walls as the handling of flying is terrible, and the hitboxes of world pieces/ Titania are wonky as f*ck) is enough to down you if you're not careful.

 

Possible changes I would like to see:

1. Remove selfdamage from flight all together.
2. Give the melee attack some sort of Invulnerability frame (like with ATLAS) or EXTREME damage reduction.
3. *¹ Somethings got to be done about her flying/ hitbox:
   • She touches the wall/ the floor and all looses all her momentum
   • Wanna move in anywhere on the vertical X,Y plane when too close to a wall? Well go as slow although you were a cold procd tunnel making machine*².
   • Did I forget that the aforementioned point also applies to the X,Y plane on the horizontal plane too? My bad.
   • She's too fast for her current handling mechanics. I would compare it to putting a F-15 fighter jet engine onto a paper air plane and asking it to handle like a drone.
4. On the topic of too fast:
   • With  most of Warframes content being in small. close quarter areas exacerbates the main reason why I'm writing this post. It is almost impossible to melee more then 5 sec straight with out getting downed by 'nothing'

Also DO NOT NERF HER SPEED. I don't care if I have to wait longer for her rework, if it means that she can handle well, even at the speeds that she can achieve with her Razorwing Augment.

*¹ Dunno where the problem lies, be it with Titania herself, which is my presumption, but the hotboxes are just bad.

*² For reference, these machines are slower then snails.

 

To you beautiful Tenno out there, who love Titania or just want to chime in, please leave you feedback here on what else could be improved on her Razor Wing. (Also I will be posting this on reddit to see what the tenno there have got to say).

Edited June 26, 2018 by Disifere
Spelling

[Hrodgrim]

This is a good post with good ideas. I'll take Titania for a spin in a while and post results.

[AXCrusnik]

Yeah IMO Titania just shouldn't be damaged from colliding while in Razorwing, and touching an enemy should not count as a collision, self-damage or not.

[MasterControl]

You might want to remove that Megathread tag, it's only supposed to be used by staff.

[Hrodgrim]

After experimenting with Titania a while, I think I've got a pretty good grasp on exactly what's causing instant death on surface contact. As you're hammering your melee attack, you gain speed, as you would intuitively guess, but it seems to count as movement speed as well, meaning higher contact damage when colliding with a surface. Go too fast and you smear yourself on the pavement like a bug. I tested this with Quick Thinking as well and it did prevent my death.

Regarding the Diwata; it's entirely overshadowed by the Dex Pixia, which is, itself, only an above average weapon. Diwata just needs a serious kick in the pants. Otherwise, Titania's first three abilities need a look-over. None of them are intuitive in the least bit, and the descriptions don't really help out. The second ability in particular is a huge pain to use, the buffs are largely worthless, and it sucks the energy out of Titania just like bankers suck the life out of the housing market.

[dopey_opi]

If you overshoot your intended melee target in Razorwing and hit a wall or something, you'll take damage.  It can down you.  Titania's had this issue since she was released, and it's gotten much worse with Razorwing Blitz considering that the speed at which Titania hits something determines how much damage she takes.  Without Razorwing Blitz stacked, she can probably survive it if she's not already hurt, but if it's fully stacked, it's an instant kill.  The end result is that Titania's melee in 4 is essentially unplayable, which sucks, because if it wasn't pixie suicide it would be a ton of fun.

Her 2 needs some tweaking.  In order to max out a single buff, you have to use the ability five times.  Then you have to keep using it, to maintain it.  It's tedious and leaves you wholly dependent on energy restores and/or Arcane Energize because she just doesn't have the energy pool to spam that while going in and out of Razorwing.  The existence of Razorwing Blitz, which encourages spamming abilities while channeling, exacerbates this problem.  Increase the buff per stack and decrease the maximum amount of stacks to 3.  And even if that doesn't happen, she still needs a much larger energy pool.  As a pure caster frame she should be up there with Loki and Nova.

Other than that, I'm gonna throw this out there too: Titania's 3 needs to go in the trash where it belongs.  It's buggy and useless.  I had an idea for a replacement ability.  It would be a channeled ability, that you could also channel while in Razorwing mode.  All rolls would basically function like short-range Itzal blinks.  Think Ciri jumping around in 'Witcher 3', or Limbo's rolling instead taking him to the rift.  This would, for example, allow her to bypass laser barriers in spy vaults.  If your 'blink' moved you through an enemy, it would give Titania a random, stackable regeneration effect in health, shields, or energy, or a temporary buff to armor (stacking up to five times, exact values up to the discretion of the devs).  Such an ability would be quite in line with her theme as a Fae frame.

Edited June 27, 2018 by dopey_opi
clarification

[(PSN)ForNoPurpose]

this isnt a megathread.

 

its a minithread...

 

get it? because Titania is so small?

 

 

yes we need major changes on Titania....

[(XBOX)DarkForceLegend]

I have yet to experience being downed as such, but one of the issues I Have using melee with Titaina while Razorwing is active is you can't mod for her getting staggered. I've tried every mod I could think of to help recovery time and any other mod that you could think of that could help with that. I don't doubt your problem, but I'd like to see mods affect her being staggered so easily while in Razorwing.

[Kierran]

On top of all these, I would like for them to add a vacuum to Razorwing mode. I still don't believe we are supposed to be scraping our faces along the floor to get loot when Razorwing is the main selling point of Titania. 😂

[LSG501]

Yeah I've noticed that there seems to be damage when using melee (strange really).  It's almost like there's something wrong now we have had the exalted blade rework.  Actually thinking about it, I haven't played titania properly since before the melee 'rework' so maybe the change on melee 'punch through' is part of what's causing titania to take damage...  Whatever it is it really needs fixing as you don't have the same issue in archwing iirc.  (edit) Hitting 'walls' at high speed can almost one hit you... this never used to be an issue. 

Also noticed certain damage/weapon types seem to ignore the razorwings which is annoying when you suddenly get one shot for no reason.. 

Titania also has a bug where she goes really slow with melee after being (seems more frequent) forcefully kicked from razorwing.

Clipping is still an issue because titania's 'clipping mask' is too big when in razorwing, been like this since release but nothing has ever been done. 

 

In essence, titania needs a proper check over of the code to make sure it's all working as intended. 

Edited July 2, 2018 by LSG501

[Disifere]

On 2018-06-27 at 12:47 AM, Mastercontrol98 said:

You might want to remove that Megathread tag, it's only supposed to be used by staff.

Didn't know that thanks for the info.

[Maud.]

Well I used Titania for approximately 100+ hours but can't remember this happening to me. But when I use melee I always have Life strike active that could be the reason why.

Edited July 2, 2018 by Komunyashka