Please go back as Ash Storm's ability was before

[TeneKay]

Ok, where's all the people that want this? So far, you've only got 1 upvote and 4 "Haha" reactions - safe to say that only one person agrees with you.

[Nazrethim]

hace 14 minutos, (PS4)CoolD2108 dijo:

Nah i'm comparing it to finisher damage bladestorm before combo mods what were the reason it was released, what op wants back? Or what's at least vastly more reasonable then a 100k finisher damage aimbot and i'm stating that just using shuriken repeatedly isn't as inferior to just that as people (are made to) believe.

Very well. In that case the +Range -PowSTR mod is not necessary, as I said, properly used pre-nerf BS didn't need range. In fact it was better to use it at default or even reduced range, because that way you could avoid getting stuck on Eximus units. The target cap didn't change so massive range wasn't needed. Hell, 50m default range is one of the bad things BS has, because it makes Range a dump stat, which isn't a good thing (same would go to Shuriken and TPs 60m range).

hace 1 minuto, tripletriple dijo:

They really should revert it. Warframe is so boring compared to when the frames had these amazing ultimate abilities. 

No, pre-nerf BS was broken and flawed. Yes post-nerf was the worst version of BS (yes, even worse than closed beta BS) but current version is probably the best we've had, despite it's flaws.

[tripletriple]

5 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

Very well. In that case the +Range -PowSTR mod is not necessary, as I said, properly used pre-nerf BS didn't need range. In fact it was better to use it at default or even reduced range, because that way you could avoid getting stuck on Eximus units. The target cap didn't change so massive range wasn't needed. Hell, 50m default range is one of the bad things BS has, because it makes Range a dump stat, which isn't a good thing (same would go to Shuriken and TPs 60m range).

No, pre-nerf BS was broken and flawed. Yes post-nerf was the worst version of BS (yes, even worse than closed beta BS) but current version is probably the best we've had, despite it's flaws.

Nothing flawed about it. I was powerful, and made you feel like a bad ass assassin. What we have now is terrible.

[Rakosta_Kai]

21 hours ago, Natfrog123 said:

"I will direct you to a particular player and content creator: LifeofRio."

I watched his videos... you know what he NEVER uses? 

Bladestorm..... In the 3 videos I watched on Ash on his channel I never once saw the guy use bladestorm.

He was invis and spamming fatale teleport 90% of the time with the other 10% mele spam.

This proves exactly what the OP said.

Bladestorm is completely unused and needs to be fixed.

I'm using YOUR reference in my dialog here.

Bladestorm isn't (exactly) broken.

...It's not the one button wonder that gave other players fits either for perceived lockouts or long animation times (and why it got changed).

...If you like the old BS effect you can still opt into it with teleport (I'm good with that).

The only functional difference between old and new Ash, to me, is the number of viable power options the new version has.

New Ash has more...All his powers work well now as opposed to they typically only one or two at a time that ever did before.

You can kit Ash to do anything right now except heal parties.

...And they gave the vocal minority of complaining players exactly what they asked for without actually nerfing Ash or giving folks room for complaint in the process.

In direct regard to your comments...I would assert that the reason why you don't see LifeofRio using it is because Ash's other abilities cost less, scale perfectly, and do the same job in less time just to fewer targets. I'm not him though so maybe he'll give you his own opinion.

 

[Nazrethim]

hace 5 minutos, tripletriple dijo:

Nothing flawed about it. I was powerful, and made you feel like a bad ass assassin. What we have now is terrible.

Both have their strenghts and flaws.

Pre-Nerf BS:

Pros: Strong, Easy to use, tricky to master it's use, works regardless of mod setup, reasonable cost unless misused, Good Augment. Flaws: braindead if Efficiency is involved, prone to misuse due to relentless spam, uninteractive, target cap, made other offensive abilities useless (SShuriken being a bandaid exception). 100% useless in conclave.

Current BS:

Pros: Strong, doesn't lock in cutscene, works for both gunplay or melee play, requires awareness from the player (if used as intended), works regardless of mod setup. Flaws: either passive uninteractive or annoying to use, cost trough the roof unless invisibility is used, disables Teleport for no good reason, overlaps with Shuriken, useless augment. 100% useless in Conclave.

[Wolfdoggie]

His Bladestorm targeting mechanic is the most unfun and ridiculous ability mechanic in the entire game and basically requires you to simulate random fast muscle spasms throughout your arm to gather everyone with your mouse reticle till you feel like you have somekinda disorder. Ash runs into the battlefield surrounded by enemies and suddenly seizures; swinging his head(camera) all over the place. Imagine the kind of absolute WTF that'd create in reality. It just doesn't work in a fast paced game like Warframe.

[Rakosta_Kai]

3 minutes ago, Wolfdoggie said:

His Bladestorm targeting mechanic is the most unfun and ridiculous ability mechanic in the entire game and basically requires you to simulate random fast muscle spasms throughout your arm to gather everyone with your mouse reticle till you feel like you have somekinda disorder. Ash runs into the battlefield surrounded by enemies and suddenly seizures; swinging his head(camera) all over the place. Imagine the kind of absolute WTF that'd create in reality. It just doesn't work in a fast paced game like Warframe.

It's exactly what you do in reality...It's called aiming.

[Nazrethim]

Justo ahora, Wolfdoggie dijo:

His Bladestorm targeting mechanic is the most unfun and ridiculous ability mechanic in the entire game and basically requires you to simulate random fast muscle spasms throughout your arm to gather everyone with your mouse reticle till you feel like you have somekinda disorder. Ash runs into the battlefield surrounded by enemies and suddenly seizures; swinging his head(camera) all over the place. Imagine the kind of absolute WTF that'd create in reality. It just doesn't work in a fast paced game like Warframe.

On the other hand, it gives you the option to carefully select your targets. Not that Teleport can't do that already.

I think a good fix for this (if bandaid) would be to give Blade Storm a reverse Peacemaker reticle when Rising Storm is added:

When you activate marking mode, BS still has pinpoint required to mark, but as you add more marks the reticle gets bigger so it's easier to mark many targets. That would make the Augment worth using and give those who want mass marking a way to achieve it without a manic spasm.

[Wolfdoggie]

3 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

It's exactly what you do in reality...It's called aiming.

Dude wtf is wrong with you.

[Rakosta_Kai]

6 minutes ago, Wolfdoggie said:

Dude wtf is wrong with you.

Nothing...Clearly. I'm not the one complaining of the new BS being too much work to do though.

10 minutes ago, Wolfdoggie said:

Dude wtf is wrong with me.

...Seems like it addresses the issue a bit more clearly.

That's just my opinion though feel free to ignore it.

FWIW, I didn't ask for these changes...I can assure you that some of the folks in this thread who are complaining, right now, did though. 

I give props to @Nazrethim because he at least asked for changes (which we debated about) and has remained objective about what was gotten. What we got was vastly better than what we could have gotten (dance dance revolution, QTE)... so count your blessings and just aim.

[Nazrethim]

hace 4 minutos, Padre_Akais dijo:

what we could have gotten (dance dance revolution, QTE)

This crack'd me up hahaha

[RoninJed]

On 2018-07-17 at 10:37 AM, Thaylien said:

Which version? We've had about four... XD

But in all serious nature... no. Bladestorm was plainly ridiculous when it was a 'press 4 to attack up to 18 times for damage that completely bypassed resistances'. It completely over-shadowed the entire rest of his kit, to the point where modding to get the best Bladestorm allowed players to ignore literally everything else he did.

Ash was literally the poster-boy of the 'Press 4 to Win' era, and there is no way he's going back to that.

While there are improvements that could be made to Bladestorm we will never, ever, and I do mean ever, be getting back the original form of Bladestorm.

There are still many frames that are press 4 to win... Take banshee for example. The main reason/excuse why DE changed bladestorm was because it wasn't interactive enough...meanwhile I can press 4 with my banshee and go make a sandwich while I lock down the whole map for defense and interception missions. I'm all in favor of changing his bladestorm back to the way it use to look. He has a ninja theme and all his abilities fit except bladestorm. He's should be more ninja..not multiple man hehe.

If ash doesn't need a rework at all then I wonder why I rarely see anyone using him hehe.

Edited July 20, 2018 by RoninJed

[Rakosta_Kai]

Just now, Nazrethim said:

This crack'd me up hahaha

And you know I ain't lyin' too.😂

[RoninJed]

12 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

Nothing...Clearly. I'm not the one complaining of the new BS being too much work to do though.

...Seems like it addresses the issue a bit more clearly.

That's just my opinion though feel free to ignore it.

FWIW, I didn't ask for these changes...I can assure you that some of the folks in this thread who are complaining, right now, did though. 

I give props to @Nazrethim because he at least asked for changes (which we debated about) and has remained objective about what was gotten. What we got was vastly better than what we could have gotten (dance dance revolution, QTE)... so count your blessings and just aim.

Yet we have a dance dance revolution frame hehe.

[Court_Joker]

8 minutes ago, RoninJed said:

There are still many frames that are press 4 to win... Take banshee for example. The main reason/excuse why DE changed bladestorm was because it wasn't interactive enough...meanwhile I can press 4 with my banshee and go make a sandwich while I lock down the whole map for defense and interception missions. I'm all in favor of changing his bladestorm back to the way it use to look. He has a ninja theme and all his abilities fit except bladestorm. He's should be more ninja..not multiple man hehe.

If ash doesn't need a rework at all then I wonder why I rarely see anyone using him hehe.

Banshee's 4 deals next to no damage in high level missions. Plus it leaves a banshee increadibly vulnerable. The same cannot be said for ash. If you are afk-ing as banshee, and come back alive, you might find that your teammates have revived you 😛

[Rakosta_Kai]

3 minutes ago, RoninJed said:

Yet we have a dance dance revolution frame hehe.

That might be why since those asks came before Disco Duck was ever introduced iirc.

Either way, it works in Ash's favor because they don't like to copy specialty mechanics like that between frames fortunately.

Had they, they probably would have copied Hydroid's charge mechanic instead.

[RoninJed]

23 minutes ago, Goombpaler said:

Banshee's 4 deals next to no damage in high level missions. Plus it leaves a banshee increadibly vulnerable. The same cannot be said for ash. If you are afk-ing as banshee, and come back alive, you might find that your teammates have revived you 😛

Crazy how that never happens to me hehe.

[Birdframe_Prime]

32 minutes ago, RoninJed said:

If ash doesn't need a rework at all then I wonder why I rarely see anyone using him hehe.

Why does everyone assume that 'You're not getting a revert' means 'he's perfect and nothing should change'?

If we were actually talking about changing Bladestorm in a positive way, sure, I'd be here giving my support for proposed changes like the 'Nier: Automata Mirage' change, where you press 4 to charge up a radius, and tap it again to deal damage at high speed to everything within it. You could be mobile, it would take energy to charge the radius... it's like Mass Vitrify, but you're able to stay mobile, and when you set the radius, everything in that radius takes damage for two seconds in a 'storm of blades'. Keep the interaction with his Smoke Screen by causing it to charge the radius faster (thus using less energy) while invisible.

But no, we weren't talking about that.

We were talking about 'Ooh, let's go back to the version of Bladestorm that made it completely pointless to use his other abilities, the version that was an unguided slideshow, that had no interaction at all for the duration, and the one that could be cast from almost complete safety as long as there was an enemy in sight, and then returned you there to promote camping in a corner for hours'.

I mean, seriously, old Bladestorm was a steaming pile and it literally made me stop playing Ash because if I wasn't using a Bladestorm build, people left missions early rather than stay and have to pull their own weight.

39 minutes ago, RoninJed said:

Take banshee for example. The main reason/excuse why DE changed bladestorm was because it wasn't interactive enough...meanwhile I can press 4 with my banshee and go make a sandwich while I lock down the whole map for defense and interception missions.

You know that Resonating Quake was changed, right? And that regular Sound Quake has no scaling damage so it caps out extremely quickly.

If you're not getting killed, then you literally aren't going anywhere near high level, or you're hiding on Hydron (or that interception with the same map) and wasting everyone's time as they have to go hunt down and kill the enemies that you're keeping stuck in their spawns.

[bronzebonobo]

You know they could have just changed his 4 they had every opportunity to do it since they didn't like it but all they ended up doing with it was making it even more annoying to use, the recent "buff" to where you can run around and mark stuff with it is still annoying to use, the only option is his shuriken if you don't like his 4.

[RoninJed]

18 minutes ago, Thaylien said:

Why does everyone assume that 'You're not getting a revert' means 'he's perfect and nothing should change'?

If we were actually talking about changing Bladestorm in a positive way, sure, I'd be here giving my support for proposed changes like the 'Nier: Automata Mirage' change, where you press 4 to charge up a radius, and tap it again to deal damage at high speed to everything within it. You could be mobile, it would take energy to charge the radius... it's like Mass Vitrify, but you're able to stay mobile, and when you set the radius, everything in that radius takes damage for two seconds in a 'storm of blades'. Keep the interaction with his Smoke Screen by causing it to charge the radius faster (thus using less energy) while invisible.

But no, we weren't talking about that.

We were talking about 'Ooh, let's go back to the version of Bladestorm that made it completely pointless to use his other abilities, the version that was an unguided slideshow, that had no interaction at all for the duration, and the one that could be cast from almost complete safety as long as there was an enemy in sight, and then returned you there to promote camping in a corner for hours'.

I mean, seriously, old Bladestorm was a steaming pile and it literally made me stop playing Ash because if I wasn't using a Bladestorm build, people left missions early rather than stay and have to pull their own weight.

You know that Resonating Quake was changed, right? And that regular Sound Quake has no scaling damage so it caps out extremely quickly.

If you're not getting killed, then you literally aren't going anywhere near high level, or you're hiding on Hydron (or that interception with the same map) and wasting everyone's time as they have to go hunt down and kill the enemies that you're keeping stuck in their spawns.

Using banshee for Interception missions is like using a easy button. You don't have to kill anything to win them...I say this because I use her every time for them. You can use her for defense but there are better frames that make it go faster.

As for bladestorm I said change it back to the way it use to look....not make it exactly the way it use to be. I don't like the multiple man ability he has because it doesn't seem to fit with his theme. That is just my opinion. Anyways I have made suggestions for changing how bladestorm could work in other threads.

[Birdframe_Prime]

1 minute ago, RoninJed said:

I don't like the multiple man ability he has because it doesn't seem to fit with his theme.

But... this was the way it worked from the very beginning...

It always produced shadow-clones that attacked enemies, Ash's 18 attacks were always split up so that, if there were 18 different targets, Ash would only personally attack 6 of them, while his two clones would attack 6 each to make up the total. Ash only did more than six attacks himself if there were less than 18 enemies to hit.

The only difference now is that the clones (something that has been entirely in keeping with the Ninja theme the entire time) are visible because you're not joining in.

The visuals aren't likely to go back as default because one of the key reasons they changed the ability to Ash not attacking himself was that it makes people physically sick. The strobing and tilting screen angles from the constant Finishers were nauseating.

You may have liked them, but again old Bladestorm was literally the reason I stopped playing Ash.

[Nazrethim]

hace 39 minutos, Thaylien dijo:

 

It always produced shadow-clones that attacked enemies

Correction. For a time it was just Ash doing the attacks. The clones were added once DE realised that target-by-target execution was stupid in a horde game. Hilariously, they did the exact same thing with Ash Revisited, which made BS the worst version ever, until we got this "send clones and join if you want (or try to use teleport on a completely unrelated enemy and you didn't want to join)"

[-QUILL_PETER-]

On 2018-07-17 at 2:17 PM, (PS4)JoelsonMS said:

It's what I want, many want and that's all that matters

No. It is not. Most people wanted it the way it is. Just pressing 4 is boring. Thanks God people like you don't make video games.

[RoninJed]

1 hour ago, Thaylien said:

But... this was the way it worked from the very beginning...

It always produced shadow-clones that attacked enemies, Ash's 18 attacks were always split up so that, if there were 18 different targets, Ash would only personally attack 6 of them, while his two clones would attack 6 each to make up the total. Ash only did more than six attacks himself if there were less than 18 enemies to hit.

The only difference now is that the clones (something that has been entirely in keeping with the Ninja theme the entire time) are visible because you're not joining in.

The visuals aren't likely to go back as default because one of the key reasons they changed the ability to Ash not attacking himself was that it makes people physically sick. The strobing and tilting screen angles from the constant Finishers were nauseating.

You may have liked them, but again old Bladestorm was literally the reason I stopped playing Ash.

Well before it looked like one ash was attacking. Now when I use it I see multiple ashes attacking. I don't know where you get that's "entirely in ninja theme". I get the stars and the stealth abilities but I don't remember ninjas making duplicates of themselves like this when attacking hehe. Anyways I think DE could rework the old visuals to make them look better. I saw more people using ash before the change then after. Now I hardly ever see anyone using him. 

[Rakosta_Kai]

20 minutes ago, RoninJed said:

I don't know where you get that's "entirely in ninja theme". I get the stars and the stealth abilities but I don't remember ninjas making duplicates of themselves like this when attacking hehe.

Someone would like a word with you...

Well, A lot of someones actually. 😃