Archived

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

9 hours ago, Oreades said:

Is it duration? I could have sworn it was efficiency, oh well Duration then. 

The problem is that to make WoF serviceable you essentially need to treat all of her other skills like dumpskills. Even then it's only really serviceable on the Starchart, mostly because there just isn't room for Firequake. Is it any wonder why my post Nerf Ember Loadout was titled Starscourge. 

That whole needing to set yourself on fire is kinda a super lame passive. Since you essentially have to sacrifice a weapon because you can't build it for damage as any reasonable damage weapon will one shot a Warframe.  So now your loadout is down either a primary or a secondary. As there are no reliable enemy or environmental methods of setting oneself on fire. 

I stand by my assertion that all they "needed" to do was cap the maximum range on WoF to like 27-30m cause it was the 40+ meter Embers that where the problem. Not unlike Novas Molecular prime Power Strength essentially capping. They overcomplicated the Ember change in what I feel was a purposeful attempt at getting people to defend it as not being a Nerf. 

Just because her passive lets her regain energy when on fire, that doesn't mean you HAVE to build for it xD  Dude, it's just a nice, -PASSIVE- thing there so if you HAPPEN to be running around and get lit on fire, oh hey! Nice, bonus energy! 😄

Seriously though, I still run mine with Firequake and have -zero- issues, even in Sortie.   I really don't know why you're all acting like she's bad at all.

[Oreades]

8 hours ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

Just because her passive lets her regain energy when on fire, that doesn't mean you HAVE to build for it xD  Dude, it's just a nice, -PASSIVE- thing there so if you HAPPEN to be running around and get lit on fire, oh hey! Nice, bonus energy! 😄

Seriously though, I still run mine with Firequake and have -zero- issues, even in Sortie.   I really don't know why you're all acting like she's bad at all.

The point is he passive is extra pointless because there is no reliable way to get it to trigger under normal circumstances and at high levels those abnormal circomstances that result in it triggering..... will most likely also kill you. The only reliable way (self damage) essentially puts you down a weapon. So it's either useless for all intents and purposes or you end up gimping your loadout, swapping weapons, triggering the effect, swapping weapons back and moving on. 

I dunno passives seem like they should be something that adds some interesting and consistent flavor to a frame not something that relies on a errant celestial alignment or jumping through an unnecessary number of hoops.

 

As to why the changes are bad, gonna say this one more time. It's because they shoehorn players into min/maxing her range if they don't want her 4 to be total garbo. The changes are bad because I went from hitting the starchart and being maybe 50-60% of the total damage to being 90%+ on a regular basis....... fixed Ember BTW~

 

As to the whole sorties being the litmus test to prove she isn't terrible...... do you know when the last time I used a survivability mod on a frame in the Sorties was? You don't? That's probably good because neither do I~. That isn't to say I don't want to use them on Ember, I enjoyed tanky Ember. Tanky Ember was one of if not the last frame I actually ran Survivability on but I can't build tanky Ember if I want her 4 to work like it should without needlessly toggling it because someone thought that pressing more buttons makes things more better. It does not....

The simplest solution again repeating this ad nauseum, would have been to cap WoF max range (see Novas Molecular Prime Strength), which wouldn't have forced anyone who wasn't min/maxing her range beyond that point to change their builds. Unfortunately they chose to overcomplicated a simple fix and it really was simple because the issue at hand essentially boils down to countering the new Set Range Mod.

Fun fact: It wasn't until after they went after WoFs range that I realized there where two (it might have been three) whole range mods that I wasn't using. Mods that I was essentially forced to cram into my build just to get the reduced WoF range to come to just under the range I used to run WoF at. But hey I got a whole bunch of extra power strength I didn't care about~ toes worth to get shoehorned into a homogenized build.

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

3 minutes ago, Oreades said:

The point is he passive is extra pointless because there is no reliable way to get it to trigger under normal circumstances and at high levels those abnormal circomstances that result in it triggering..... will most likely also kill you. The only reliable way (self damage) essentially puts you down a weapon. So it's either useless for all intents and purposes or you end up gimping your loadout, swapping weapons, triggering the effect, swapping weapons back and moving on. 

I dunno passives seem like they should be something that adds some interesting and consistent flavor to a frame not something that relies on a errant celestial alignment or jumping through an unnecessary number of hoops.

 

As to why the changes are bad, gonna say this one more time. It's because they shoehorn players into min/maxing her range if they don't want her 4 to be total garbo. The changes are bad because I went from hitting the starchart and being maybe 50-60% of the total damage to being 90%+ on a regular basis....... fixed Ember BTW~

 

As to the whole sorties being the litmus test to prove she isn't terrible...... do you know when the last time I used a survivability mod on a frame in the Sorties was? You don't? That's probably good because neither do I~. That isn't to say I don't want to use them on Ember, I enjoyed tanky Ember. Tanky Ember was one of if not the last frame I actually ran Survivability on but I can't build tanky Ember if I want her 4 to work like it should without needlessly toggling it because someone thought that pressing more buttons makes things more better. It does not....

The simplest solution again repeating this ad nauseum, would have been to cap WoF max range (see Novas Molecular Prime Strength), which wouldn't have forced anyone who wasn't min/maxing her range beyond that point to change their builds. Unfortunately they chose to overcomplicated a simple fix and it really was simple because the issue at hand essentially boils down to countering the new Set Range Mod.

Fun fact: It wasn't until after they went after WoFs range that I realized there where two (it might have been three) whole range mods that I wasn't using. Mods that I was essentially forced to cram into my build just to get the reduced WoF range to come to just under the range I used to run WoF at. But hey I got a whole bunch of extra power strength I didn't care about~ toes worth to get shoehorned into a homogenized build.

I have to say I strongly disagree.  She isn't MEANT to run her WoF at her previous ranges.  That's why they did the rework in the first place..well, one reason, anyway.

Regardless, your experience may vary from my own (clearly) but I STILL run a WoF Ember with -zero- issues.  She never wants for energy, ever, and I never, EVER, need her passive.  If I see a spot of molten metal on the floor I'll maybe stand on it for the novelty of "Hey, cool, free energy!" but there are SO many better ways to get energy, from discs to zenurik....It's just not needed.   Her Passive IS all about "flavor".   She doesn't need more power.

I also run Firequake on the same build, WITH Survivabilty mods, and she does GREAT at higher levels.  Why?  Because her WoF now knocks down problematic enemies, regardless of the damage it does or does not do.  Why does that matter?  Because....and I know I shouldn't share this secret out in the open, but....Warframes....can equip...more than one weapon.  *GASP!*

I know, right?  Who'da thought?  Ember's WoF CC's the enemies, opening them up to ground finishers and just all-round keeping them off my back, while I run around and kill 'em with mah swordz....or guns, or whatever.  

She's GREAT for defending objectives.  I use her in Kuva Survival all the time.  WAY more effective at stunning the crowds than even Equinox for me.

So, your opinions are certainly valid, as they are opinions....but do not state them as facts, because facts do not vary from person to person.  That is the essence of a fact- it is unchanging.  However, my experience proves that your experience is not unchanging across players.  So, in conclusion?  Ember is fine.  WoF is not "garbage" compared to Equinox, or any other frame.  Yes, there are many frames who can do the same...but options aren't a bad thing to have.

[Duffy1]

Ember is life

[000l000]

Comparing Ember and Equinox is pointless, they're so different, kill in different ways and bring different buffs. A right modded Ember can bring massive fire damage to the party, which only work with weapons. Equinox brings warframe power.

Equinox kills from really far away, doesn't care much about LoS and thus even a Mesa couldn't really compete in the slaughter department. Why would Ember compete with it then ?

Anyway Ember is still more reliable if you're moving a lot since its fourth power does more damage individually and costs way less than Equinox, that's why Ember is often required for some MR tests as opposed to an energy starving Equinox. If you're stationary, Ember augment mods make her a real CC powerhouse - burning everything especially if you also use fire based weapons.

In fact the only thing Equinox is good at is killing enemies first thanks to its really impressive range and stacking damages ability. If you can wait for the enemies to come to you, Ember works perfectly fine.

Try to kill a single boss and you'll see the difference between Maim and Ember massive fire damages on a single target. 😉

[LordViper4]

Ember may as well not even use weapons, because her abilities are all melee range anyway. If you build range, you cant build duration, efficiency or strength. You literally have to build everything and when you do, you dont even have enough range to use the abilities.

Finally, I'll be surprised if DE don't fix or rework Ember any time soon because its impossible to be unaware of the issues explained in this thread.

Edited July 30, 2018 by LordViper4

[Daffan]

Ember like many old frames have completely dumb toolkits, which were made before weapons and stuff were so power creeped

e.g Ability 1 on most frames is rlly bad.... therefore everything relies on Her 4 and to a lesser degree 2/3. 

Edited July 30, 2018 by Daffan
forgot a word

[Babellon]

I use the same balance build for all of my frames and I get excellent performance from ember. I don't expect world on fire to stay on permanently it is unnecessary. Accelerant and ring of fire are very effective for point defense and uses less energy than WOF, fireball is chargable and fast casting, speed cast simply press 1, hold 1 to charge for less than a second and you increase damage and size of the fireball. You shouldn't build ember to one skill excluding the rest, that is why people feel ember doesn't play well. WoF isn't the only skill ember has, add dodge mechanics with Parkour, weapons such as the ignis, (whats that secondary flame weapon?) and the burning sword/shield and you have a powerhouse with no real deficits.

coincidentally, accellerant also applies to fire damage on your fire based weapons.

Edited July 30, 2018 by Babellon

[LordViper4]

4 minutes ago, Babellon said:

 

coincidentally, accellerant also applies to fire damage on your fire based weapons.

I did not think about that before, however your still going to be fighting enemies in melee range, still wielding your abilities ineffective.

[Babellon]

7 minutes ago, LordViper4 said:

I did not think about that before, however your still going to be fighting enemies in melee range, still wielding your abilities ineffective.

well, for melee range enemies hit your ring of fire, it knocks back enemies, staggers heavies and disrupts their attacks, while simultaneously damaging them, put accelerant in the mix and you've increased that buff, now hit them with that flaming sword, that is also buffed by accellerant melee is easy.

also you can multi cast ring of fire, creating layers of barrier which add damage per cast. each ring hits. 

Edited July 30, 2018 by Babellon