Archived

[LordViper4]

Archived

Edited April 3, 2022 by LordViper4

[DrakeWurrum]

4 minutes ago, LordViper4 said:

you can't afk because you need to run around for energy

I do not see this as a bad thing. If other frames can still do that, we should be demanding it be changed.

[DarkRuler2500]

Ember got hit by the nerf-hammer a while back and has not recovered ever since.
Just forget about her for the time being.

[LordViper4]

-

Edited April 3, 2022 by LordViper4

[Raskol]

Why u all ppl get so attached to 1 build and dont see any other possibilities?

I just yesterday revisited my Ember and im rly enjoying her 2+3 combo build for lots of heat dmg buff and some CC, hell if build properly u can even use her for Eidolon hunting (far from meta but not that bad), even made a thread about that

After all her 4 got nerfed and i agree its either useless or u need to put so much effort to run it that its far easier to use other frame like Equi

but overall Ember isnt bad frame

[Orblit]

11 minutes ago, Raskolnikow said:

need to put so much effort to run it that its far easier to use other frame

Why are people allergic to pressing a button more then once every 10 seconds?

[Raskol]

6 minutes ago, Orblit said:

Why are people allergic to pressing a button more then once every 10 seconds?

Idk how about others but im running growing power and energy conversion so restarting my 4 is pain in the arse since i have to grab an orb and proc status first

 

[SenorClipClop]

21 minutes ago, LordViper4 said:

Why does Ember (prime) feel like a worst version of Equinox

Maybe because you're trying for a super-lazy playstyle of "press 4, take a nap" and comparing them solely on that? That's their only similarity, after all.

26 minutes ago, LordViper4 said:

You run out of energy, really low range, bad  at high levels targets, you can't afk because you need to run around for energy and can't even use any armour/health mods because you need it for efficiency/duration/range and power. You need all the elements, because duration lowers the amount of energy used for your 4th. 

So yeah, no afk. Look, Ember's not in an amazing place right now, but if you know what you're doing and get involved in your own gameplay, Ember can still be an excellent damage-dealer and survive just fine. If you're stuck and can't make Ember work for you, try my build for Ember Prime (no Forma, no Exilus) :

Steel Charge aura. Streamline and a R4 Fleeting Expertise to hit the Efficiency cap of 175%, with P. Continuity to counteract FE's negative Duration. Vitality for survival, Stretch, and Flash Accelerant (not needed but nice, you could sub Natural Talent or really anything). I have some Strength on there in the form of Intensify and Energy Conversion, but you could swap these for more Range or Duration if you want. She doesn't really need bonus Duration when her Eff is so high though, and Energy Conversion gives you decent damage boosts. I haven't put an Exilus Adapter into my Ember Prime yet, but anything would work. (To recap, my build has 740 Health, 100 Duration, 175 Eff, 145 Range and 130 Strength (180 Strength on Orb pickup) and an augment.)

So what you do is you have on 4 when you want (for best results pick up an Orb first), and either recast 4 to give Ember CC or use her (much more effective for CC) Accelerant to stun enemies and increase your fire damage and reserve the concentrated 4 for damage. Fire Blast on chokepoints or as a trap in traffic-heavy hallways, Fireball for quick-CC on enemies while you approach to melee (and also to set up your HealReturn and ConOver). Everything has low energy costs so economy isn't really an issue, and Vitality is all you need for survival if enemies are too busy getting Heat procced to attack you. To make this build really shine you'll want Heat on your weapon (obvi), and I make use of Healing Return on my melee for added sustain (Condition Overload is dope too). I also like bringing Smeeta Kavat with me, since its Charm buff allows Fireball to hit with orange crits.

[SenorClipClop]

44 minutes ago, LordViper4 said:

Why does Ember (prime) feel like a worst version of Equinox

Maybe because you're trying for a super-lazy playstyle of "press 4, take a nap" and comparing them solely on that? That's their only similarity, after all.

44 minutes ago, LordViper4 said:

You run out of energy, really low range, bad  at high levels targets, you can't afk because you need to run around for energy and can't even use any armour/health mods because you need it for efficiency/duration/range and power. You need all the elements, because duration lowers the amount of energy used for your 4th. 

So yeah, no afk. Look, Ember's not in an amazing place right now, but if you know what you're doing and get involved in your own gameplay, Ember can still be an excellent damage-dealer and survive just fine. If you're stuck and can't make Ember work for you, try my build for Ember Prime (no Forma, no Exilus) :

Steel Charge aura. Streamline and a R4 Fleeting Expertise to hit the Efficiency cap of 175%, with P. Continuity to counteract FE's negative Duration. Vitality for survival, Stretch, and Flash Accelerant (not needed but nice, you could sub Natural Talent or really anything). I have some Strength on there in the form of Intensify and Energy Conversion, but you could swap these for more Range or Duration if you want. She doesn't really need bonus Duration when her Eff is so high though, and Energy Conversion gives you decent damage boosts. I haven't put an Exilus Adapter into my Ember Prime yet, but anything would work. (To recap, my build has 740 Health, 100 Duration, 175 Eff, 145 Range and 130 Strength (180 Strength on Orb pickup) and an augment.)

So what you do is you have on 4 when you want (for best results pick up an Orb first), and either recast 4 to give Ember CC or use her (much more effective for CC) Accelerant to stun enemies and increase your fire damage and reserve the concentrated 4 for damage. Fire Blast on chokepoints or as a trap in traffic-heavy hallways, Fireball for quick-CC on enemies while you approach to melee (and also to set up your HealReturn and ConOver). Everything has low energy costs so economy isn't really an issue, and Vitality is all you need for survival if enemies are too busy getting Heat procced to attack you. To make this build really shine you'll want Heat on your weapon (obvi), and I make use of Healing Return on my melee for added sustain (Condition Overload is dope too). I also like bringing Smeeta Kavat with me, since its Charm buff allows Fireball to hit with orange crits.

[(PSN)Tactless_Ninja]

It's because fire is a crappier version of slash. They rework elemental damage you can guarantee Ember will get a huge buff. 

Otherwise her latest rework shifted her priorities around. WoF is a close range melee buff, fire blast is for distant enemies. 

[Cloud]

1 hour ago, LordViper4 said:

So I have both Ember Prime and Equinox and I'm baffled to why Ember's performance is horrendous.

Ember has the following problems: You run out of energy, really low range, bad  at high levels targets, you can't afk because you need to run around for energy and can't even use any armour/health mods because you need it for efficiency/duration/range and power. You need all the elements, because duration lowers the amount of energy used for your 4th. 

Ember's model is not very well created, at all and needs a rework.

Ember is useless when you have Equinox. 

The idea should be that Ember has fast, high damage at her disposal instead Equinox should be a nuke which requires time to grow powerdamage. Unfortunately Ember has suffered a really bad "rework" which nerfed her to the ground at the point of being almost useless.

[Sannleikur]

I use a build and setup very similar to this one. I have arcane energize so I don't need flow, so I use another ranged mod, and I repped intensify with flash accelerant since it's much much more useful. Don't use Firequake, it's redundant since you'll be spamming accelerant and WoF has very high proc chance for fire which will also CC.  I also have a synoid gammacor for energy but I rarely need to use it. My melee weapon is my primary source of killing damage. It's a Plague kripath pole with a condition overload corrosive heat build, so it gets a major boost from flash accelerant. 

I get majority kills in most content with this build, and only struggle with lvl 200+ normal maps or lvl 100+ eximu stronghold sorties since the energy drain in them can be killer. It does alright in onslaught, can't quite keep up with saryn or mesa since the energy reset hurts her more than it does those 2, and her dps is reliant on her boosted damage weapons. 

Her range nerf did nothing at all really, except force a change in mods to get the same exact results. Her other changes were effectively useless too, since an ember that stays still is a dead ember, or one that runs out of energy, so the damage bonus you get from fire blast is unusable in any content you aren't already effectively 1 shotting. Her 1's charge does ok damage if you headshot with it, but again slowing down to charge it and throw it is not nearly as fast or as safe as using her 2+4 combo with weapons going. You ask me, her 1 should leave a trail that also burns, all of her fire damage abilities should be doubled in damage or more, and her 3 should move with her. Since scaling is the thing these days, the longer she's in active combat the hotter she should get. I.E her fire damage goes up a lot like saryns spore damage goes up, only instead of spores its determined by heat procs. 
 

 

Edited July 25, 2018 by Sannleikur

[Kronxito]

2 hours ago, LordViper4 said:

So I have both Ember Prime and Equinox and I'm baffled to why Ember's performance is horrendous.

Ember has the following problems: You run out of energy, really low range, bad  at high levels targets, you can't afk because you need to run around for energy and can't even use any armour/health mods because you need it for efficiency/duration/range and power. You need all the elements, because duration lowers the amount of energy used for your 4th. 

Ember's model is not very well created, at all and needs a rework.

Ember is useless when you have Equinox. 

Equinox could be the next prime AFTER chroma.

So the fact equinox is strong is good for DE business.

Ember's stuff is already past

 

EDIT: to my liking, I would change his world on fire and implement this one instead:

 

Edited July 25, 2018 by AnGeL_KRoM

[LupisV0lk]

Because Ember trivialised low tier stuff and DE balanced her.

[VoxGray]

You have that impression because you're building her wrong. They don't share the same function, so trying to get Ember to fill Equinox's shoes just isn't going to go well for you. Ember's new role in a squad is as a rush-down damage dealer and CC. You're mean to be getting into close range, taking advantage of your numerous CC options to stack on DoT and debuffs. If you're concerned about squishiness, work on getting Arcane Guardian, it does wonders for her.

[(PSN)watt4hem]

Then you're probably playing her wrong. Try a flash accelerant, high raange, strenght, and eff build with an atomos.

[Vanille]

Several points:
 

1. Different playstyles. Ember is an active-passive warframe. Be active moving around while passively damaging enemies. Equinox's Day form is a nuker, her slash ticks do laughable damage even on strength builds and only work on a premade with buffers and corrosive projections for DPS, relies too much on a squad and falls off really quick on scaling enemies except for her recast nuke.
2. If you're running out of energy or struggling with it, I'm sorry to say you're building her wrong. She's actually one of the lowest energy consumers, even after the WoF change. With the right build you will never run out of energy unless you stand still for several minutes. I can activate WoF as soon as I begin a mission and never run out, she's the only frame I never need to use energy pads, zenurik dash or ask for energy from other frames.
3. Her range is low because of her passive playstyle, but DE compensated that with double dmg on 100% charged WoF, which lets you sacrifice strength mods for range.
4. Your damage on higher level targets is low because you're only depending on her WoF damage, but you have to synergyse it with her 2, mowing through enemies. That's a lazy gamestyle, not hers. But since you're playing with a weird build that you somehow are having energy issues, you can't use her 2 often.

Ember's only issue is that she's boring to play because it's too passive, but effective for farming and I personally would like if she got reworked.

[LordViper4]

3 hours ago, Orblit said:

Why are people allergic to pressing a button more then once every 10 seconds?

Because you can't. You run out of energy. Even with mods to fix it. Which stops me having armour or health. 

Edited July 25, 2018 by LordViper4

[LordViper4]

2 hours ago, Sannleikur said:

I use a build and setup very similar to this one. I have arcane energize so I don't need flow, so I use another ranged mod, and I repped intensify with flash accelerant since it's much much more useful. Don't use Firequake, it's redundant since you'll be spamming accelerant and WoF has very high proc chance for fire which will also CC.  I also have a synoid gammacor for energy but I rarely need to use it. My melee weapon is my primary source of killing damage. It's a Plague kripath pole with a condition overload corrosive heat build, so it gets a major boost from flash accelerant. 

I get majority kills in most content with this build, and only struggle with lvl 200+ normal maps or lvl 100+ eximu stronghold sorties since the energy drain in them can be killer. It does alright in onslaught, can't quite keep up with saryn or mesa since the energy reset hurts her more than it does those 2, and her dps is reliant on her boosted damage weapons. 

Her range nerf did nothing at all really, except force a change in mods to get the same exact results. Her other changes were effectively useless too, since an ember that stays still is a dead ember, or one that runs out of energy, so the damage bonus you get from fire blast is unusable in any content you aren't already effectively 1 shotting. Her 1's charge does ok damage if you headshot with it, but again slowing down to charge it and throw it is not nearly as fast or as safe as using her 2+4 combo with weapons going. You ask me, her 1 should leave a trail that also burns, all of her fire damage abilities should be doubled in damage or more, and her 3 should move with her. Since scaling is the thing these days, the longer she's in active combat the hotter she should get. I.E her fire damage goes up a lot like saryns spore damage goes up, only instead of spores its determined by heat procs. 
 

 

This is the only point thats valid. Yes this build works. But why should you have to waste your primary slot to harm yourself with fire?

34 minutes ago, (PS4)watt4hem said:

Then you're probably playing her wrong. Try a flash accelerant, high raange, strenght, and eff build with an atomos.

Please play for yourself and you'll see. Thats all I can say.

 

But I literally play the two warframes, and ember just feels like a pre-mature equinox. Why should you have to have such a specific build to just about match the usefulness of equinox. This game promotes the opposite to this. Its not like The Division 1.2 where only supreme teams/players could run certain missions. Everyone should be able to play any frame they want. Ember is personally not my cup of tea, however I'm just trying to give a point to why this frame feels like an outcast to the game. Its strange; useless.

Part of it I can understand that its marketing and achieving money from players, but Ember is just way to weak. I'm pretty sure everyone will invest time to get Equinox Prime, dont worry DE.

Devs need to look at this, and establish what player experience they are trying to promote.

Edited July 25, 2018 by LordViper4

[(PSN)Hiero_Glyph]

Ember is great for the star chart but that's about it. I use her for running syndicate, invasions and some alerts and she performs just fine. I just activate her world on fire, use accelerant whenever something doesn't instantly die and use a synoid gammacor to keep my energy up.

I do agree that she could use a buff (or fire damage in general) but she is not just a worse Equinox since her raw damage can kill things faster throughout the starchat. And her smaller range is fine for most tiles as you can instantly pickup whatever drops since it is 20m away, not 40m.

[Sannleikur]

Topic inspired me to make this 

 

[LordViper4]

46 minutes ago, Sannleikur said:

Topic inspired me to make this 

Awesome, some really good points.

 

[Oreades]

4 hours ago, Orblit said:

Why are people allergic to pressing a button more then once every 10 seconds?

Probably because simply making people press more buttons doesn't magically make things better, in most instances it just makes you hit more buttons.

Kinda like my feelings about the Relays and how DE has chosen to keep them "relevant" essentially equates to three (previously four) more loading screens if you want to use the Simulacrum. When it should be two loading screens at the maximum. 

Or the time someone suggested that we should have an end of mission cinematic to show our Liset docking with the Orbiter. Which would be awesome for all of two or three cycles and then it would just ammount to hitting the space bar twice at the end of every mission to skip it......... and we are already all hitting space bar twice to skip the initial entry cinematic...... Which means what the bulk of that suggestion does is add two more needless interactions to the game. 

Those interactions need to feel good and there are some frames that pull that interaction off, where pressing their skill hundreds of times a mission FEELS GOOD. Embers Ult just isn't one of them but I'm sure there are some people out there who love new Ember and continually pressing four for a few seconds of reliable Ult. As far as I'm concerned the change effectively killed Firequake and forced me into a build that has no staying power at higher levels but can liquefy the starchart missions even harder than the pre-nerf Ember........ 

So ultimately the changes accomplished nothing..... it just shoehorned her even harder into passing butter being a starchart clearing machine. 

[--Dark_Rage--]

2 часа назад, LupisV0lk сказал:

Because Ember trivialised low tier stuff and DE balanced her.

And they forgot to balance Equinox Maim in a same way.

The destination of Equinox 4 is the same in the near future.

 

 

[(PSN)watt4hem]

1 hour ago, LordViper4 said:

Please play for yourself and you'll see. Thats all I can say.

Care to explain? That was legit my primary build fpr ember for as long as i remembered, so i really don't see anything wrong with that. The build isn't an aoe auto kill button but it works well as a run n gun n mass aoe kinda build.