Acolytes arent worth playing

[Lers]

18 minutes ago, Dopekoke said:

4% is low but argon scope is really good which supports the fact that is is a rare mod.  By increasing the drop rate, it would be more easily accessible making a really good mod, into an uncommon/common mod.  As you have said before, there will be a lot of unlucky people, but they're also a lot of lucky people too.  

Just like from reading a bunch of other posts about how the game is too hard for you doesn't mean that it should be made easier just because you have a hard time with it; granted this is slightly different because it involves a random number generator (RNG) but please, stop asking for things on a silver platter because it discredits those who have invested the time and effort.  As well all know this is a grind, even on steam reviews it says that this is a grind as a "beware" fact.  What did you expect?  

Is it though? It literally does the same thing as Hydraulic Crosshairs. A common mod. Of which i have hundreds of. At best its a situational mod.

And silver platter my ass. Leave that straw man at the door. How many Torment kills do you have this event? How many kills does the average Joe Smoe has? Triple that and give a free rare mod at that point.

RNG protection is not a "silver platter". It can be, but i dont want that. I like the grind. Its what i'm here for. What i dont like is burning hours on a limited time event, and not getting anything out of it.

 

EDIT:

Quote

it discredits those who have invested the time and effort

Lets not kid ourselves. Beating RNG is not a feat of strength or effort. Its luck. You can invest more time, which gives a larger sample size, but its still luck. At which point there is still a chance that you get jack S#&$.

Normally i dont mind this: you can invest almost infinite amount of time, since the stuff you farm is readily available.

You can invest inordinate amounts of time and effort, in a short period of a few days into this event and still get nothing.

Edited August 11, 2018 by Lers

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

8 hours ago, jd2fs said:

To say de has nothing to do with price of their product is really disingenuous. De has ultimate power in determining what anything is worth in this game. 

 

Look people can grind all they want but that doesn't mean anything to this. Op raised valid question as to if all this grind is worth the effort. For people who still don't have it maybe it is better to wait until melee 3.0 and then buy it for under 30p. Let others do the heavy lifting. 

DE does -not- control the prices that people ask for things.  The "value" that players attribute to something is relative, and the average price is only as it is because the majority of players continue to agree to pay it.

If I tell you my Poop Emoji Coffee Mug is worth $100, and you pay for it, then, to you, it was worth it.  If I convince the majority of the customer base to do so, then that's the -perceived- value of the mug.  Same thing for diamonds, which are, btw, inherently worthless.   It's all about what people are willing to pay.

If you decided, along with the majority of my customers, "nah, screw this. This mug isn't worth more than $10", then I'd either have to lower my prices to meet the market demand, or I'd accept that I now have a storage bin full of Poop Mugs.


Point is, DE affects only the qualities of the mods, which yes, will affect players' perception of its value, but DE never, EVER, said "You should pay 500 plat for that!"   Ever.   That is ALL on the players.  And only the PLAYERS have the power to bring that price back down.  So no, I'm not being disingenuous.  That is how the market actually works.

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

8 hours ago, S.Dust said:

i already own all the necessary mods from last year but ill say that the chances on the rare mods are not high enough for a once a year event that has an undetermined duration since the amount of time it takes for them to go away is based on how much the community farms them which means the rarer ones leave the fastest and leave people with the least amount of time screwed the event does need to be changed but meh doesnt effect me they're just potential plat at this point.

They are on timers.  It has nothing to do with how fast the community farms them.  Just fyi.

Also, drop rates are low because the mods are GOOD.  So....DE doesn't necessarily want it to be easy handouts to everyone, otherwise it doesn't mean anything and just becomes another mandatory mod.  Also, gives a reason for trade chat to even exist.

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

4 hours ago, Lers said:

Guess I'm arguing a different point from the OP. He has a small sample size. Sure RNG is RNG, but are the drop percentages fair for a limited time event? Hell naw.

My point: 4% is pretty low if an acolyte is only around for ~4 days. There will be a lot of "unlucky" people that grind for days and not get a single rare mod. Some form of RNG protection with appropriately large amount of kills for a rare wouldn't kill the market (100-200 kills per acolyte per event?).

What you call "RNG Protection" would just make RNG drop chances completely null and void altogether.   It would turn into, "Oh I just gotta kill 100x and I get the mod I want?  Neat."  and that'd be that. They'd never play that again.

Then we'd have forum rants about "It should be 50x only!" or "I think we should just get the mod, because why waste the time if it's guaranteed?"  and so on.

It wouldn't solve anything other than you getting what you want.

[S.Dust]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

They are on timers.  It has nothing to do with how fast the community farms them.  Just fyi.

Also, drop rates are low because the mods are GOOD.  So....DE doesn't necessarily want it to be easy handouts to everyone, otherwise it doesn't mean anything and just becomes another mandatory mod.  Also, gives a reason for trade chat to even exist.

they have a health bar if you havent noticed we can kill them off far before they ever hit the end of the event proof of this is when the first acolyte to arrive if it has the bad drops is the last to finally die so i think you may be mistaken. 

Edited August 11, 2018 by S.Dust

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

20 minutes ago, S.Dust said:

they have a health bar if you havent noticed we can kill them off far before they ever hit the end of the event proof of this is when the first acolyte to arrive if it has the bad drops is the last to finally die so i think you may be mistaken. 

No, the health bar says "Health", but I promise you, just like Razorback, it's on more of a decay timer. That timer may have several other variables, but overall it's still a timer.   This has been confirmed by several sources for quite awhile now.  I'm busy with work or I'd link 'em, but I'm sure a simple forum/Google search should provide you with the references you need.

[jd2fs]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

DE never, EVER, said "You should pay 500 plat for that!"   Ever.   That is ALL on the players.  And only the PLAYERS have the power to bring that price back down.

Use your coffee mug scenario, player bought the cup because it had poop emoji. Then later on DE said no that poop emoji will get replaced by real poop. Where does the consumer get to dictate the actual value of that coffee mug? Yes, they can decide not to put any more trust in DE in making the product by electing to consume another game....

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

1 minute ago, jd2fs said:

Use your coffee mug scenario, player bought the cup because it had poop emoji. Then later on DE said no that poop emoji will get replaced by real poop. Where does the consumer get to dictate the actual value of that coffee mug? Yes, they can decide not to put any more trust in DE in making the product by electing to consume another game....

You're missing the point....DE never set a value for the mod in the first place.  It could just as easily have been worth a measely 20p.   Tbh, I've given them away for FREE before.  Point is, DE is not responsible for what people choose to pay for something.  It is not a necessary mod to play the game, and it is not necessary to buy it.

So, again, while DE can influence factors that influence player's perceived value of the item, they do -not- actually set or demand monetary value.  That is all the playerbase's own doing.

[(PSN)Hiero_Glyph]

23 minutes ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

You're missing the point....DE never set a value for the mod in the first place.  It could just as easily have been worth a measely 20p.   Tbh, I've given them away for FREE before.  Point is, DE is not responsible for what people choose to pay for something.  It is not a necessary mod to play the game, and it is not necessary to buy it.

So, again, while DE can influence factors that influence player's perceived value of the item, they do -not- actually set or demand monetary value.  That is all the playerbase's own doing.

Doesn't DE control both the drop rates and the frequency of the event though? Sounds like a supplier problem to me.

[Lers]

7 hours ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

What you call "RNG Protection" would just make RNG drop chances completely null and void altogether.   It would turn into, "Oh I just gotta kill 100x and I get the mod I want?  Neat."  and that'd be that. They'd never play that again.

Then we'd have forum rants about "It should be 50x only!" or "I think we should just get the mod, because why waste the time if it's guaranteed?"  and so on.

It wouldn't solve anything other than you getting what you want.

Thats a nice slippery slope fallacy you have there.

But, let me refute:

"would just make RNG drop chances completely null and void altogether" - trading. Its the only reason why people that have the rare mods are still farming this event. Giving a SINGLE rare mod per 100-200 acolyte kills and only ONCE per event will not magically explode the market. It would deflate the prices, but its still a yearly event. Prices would still go up, but probably not these ludicrous rates.

"They'd never play that again." - i mean thats exactly what we're doing right now. If you have the mod, and dont want to farm for selling you really dont care about this event anymore. I am not touching any acolyte that doesn't have a rare i still need with a ten foot pole.

"I think we should just get the mod, because why waste the time if it's guaranteed?" - you yourself answered it before. Because its a grind. Grinding is good. Only difference is, it would have an end that people can make plans around, and know that their time is valued and appriciated in some form or another. Time invested should reap benefits. The amount of invested time can be argued, but the principle? Dont think so.

Artificial scarcity is only good for DE and mod resellers.

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

28 minutes ago, Lers said:

Thats a nice slippery slope fallacy you have there.

But, let me refute:

"would just make RNG drop chances completely null and void altogether" - trading. Its the only reason why people that have the rare mods are still farming this event. Giving a SINGLE rare mod per 100-200 acolyte kills and only ONCE per event will not magically explode the market. It would deflate the prices, but its still a yearly event. Prices would still go up, but probably not these ludicrous rates.

"They'd never play that again." - i mean thats exactly what we're doing right now. If you have the mod, and dont want to farm for selling you really dont care about this event anymore. I am not touching any acolyte that doesn't have a rare i still need with a ten foot pole.

"I think we should just get the mod, because why waste the time if it's guaranteed?" - you yourself answered it before. Because its a grind. Grinding is good. Only difference is, it would have an end that people can make plans around, and know that their time is valued and appriciated in some form or another. Time invested should reap benefits. The amount of invested time can be argued, but the principle? Dont think so.

Artificial scarcity is only good for DE and mod resellers.

For fu-  Can we all just knock it off with these lotus-damned "fallacies"?!  I feel like I'm playing friggin' Phoenix Wright when I'm on these damn forums, anymore!  Ain't no damn fallacies.  They are opinions, facts, and observations. Granted you may not like or agree with them, as they are, but that doesn't make me some devious lawyer trying to trick anyone in a debate.  Friggin' hell...

Anyways,  still no. 
Y
Also, stop stating assumptions and opinions as facts.  I'm gettin' real sick of seeing this on the forums, too!  I have most of the Acolyte mods and I STILL fight them every chance I get.  Know why? Because I think it's FUN!  Because I love the idea of fighting another frame, and I enjoy every aspect of the hunt for them.  YOU may not like it, but do not act so arrogant as to assume you speak for every Tenno.

Ongoing grind, and as such, not a definite number of x = y, is one aspect of Warframe that helps keep DE alive.  They do not have a 100% Goal line because they don't make money when you cross it, they make money when you run it, or get tired of running it and buy plat.  This is not evil. This is not wrong.  This is business.  This is families of DE employees who depend on that income, and there is no guarantee it will be there tomorrow with the F2P model they have.  It's not like DE is guaranteed $60 per each one of the 32million registered users they have.  There was no upfront deposit made in order to gain access to the game.  It is completely free....so the grind is not just fun, it is paramount to their current success strategy.   

The benefit to time invested, the "reward", as it were, is the fun of playing the damned game.  If that's not enough, then put it down and come back when you actually want to PLAY and not just "win".  Warframe is a journey, an adventure, not a race.

What's good for DE is good for everyone, because it keeps the game going and free.   Oxygen Mask ---> Parent has to breathe first on a plane, in the event of an emergency landing.  Putting the mask on their kid first does no good because the kid depends on the parent to survive.

No DE, no Warframe.   And since they're owned by a tech company and shareholders, if their profits drop too much, they get sold. Gone. Caput.  

[Lers]

48 minutes ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

For fu-  Can we all just knock it off with these lotus-damned "fallacies"?!  I feel like I'm playing friggin' Phoenix Wright when I'm on these damn forums, anymore!  Ain't no damn fallacies.  They are opinions, facts, and observations. Granted you may not like or agree with them, as they are, but that doesn't make me some devious lawyer trying to trick anyone in a debate.  Friggin' hell...

Anyways,  still no. 
Y
Also, stop stating assumptions and opinions as facts.  I'm gettin' real sick of seeing this on the forums, too!  I have most of the Acolyte mods and I STILL fight them every chance I get.  Know why? Because I think it's FUN!  Because I love the idea of fighting another frame, and I enjoy every aspect of the hunt for them.  YOU may not like it, but do not act so arrogant as to assume you speak for every Tenno.

Ongoing grind, and as such, not a definite number of x = y, is one aspect of Warframe that helps keep DE alive.  They do not have a 100% Goal line because they don't make money when you cross it, they make money when you run it, or get tired of running it and buy plat.  This is not evil. This is not wrong.  This is business.  This is families of DE employees who depend on that income, and there is no guarantee it will be there tomorrow with the F2P model they have.  It's not like DE is guaranteed $60 per each one of the 32million registered users they have.  There was no upfront deposit made in order to gain access to the game.  It is completely free....so the grind is not just fun, it is paramount to their current success strategy.   

The benefit to time invested, the "reward", as it were, is the fun of playing the damned game.  If that's not enough, then put it down and come back when you actually want to PLAY and not just "win".  Warframe is a journey, an adventure, not a race.

What's good for DE is good for everyone, because it keeps the game going and free.   Oxygen Mask ---> Parent has to breathe first on a plane, in the event of an emergency landing.  Putting the mask on their kid first does no good because the kid depends on the parent to survive.

No DE, no Warframe.   And since they're owned by a tech company and shareholders, if their profits drop too much, they get sold. Gone. Caput.  

Not sure how to reply when you get all emotional like that. Here i was thinking we are civil people debating our views. /sarcasm

Anyways, yeah, not picking that one apart. Started typing up an answer but damn it got long.

Long story short, you also seem to assume much.

I criticize DE because i care, not because i want an easy way out. I've spent more plat the last 5 years than the avarage person. I buy a LOT of skins. Tennogen and otherwise. I dont even mind buying mods, weapons or prime parts... hell even Octavia instruments. I however dont like paying for artificially created scarcity.

You know what you can buy on the price of an Argon Scope? For instance a Condition Overload, which is a gamechanger for many weapons and it has a 0,02% drop chance. And on avarage you'd still have some pocket change left. And thats the LOWEST price Argon Scope goes for, on the hight of its availability.

I criticize because i see this as actually contrary to the standards DE stands for, and because i see this as something that can drive people away simply due to the amount of salt it generates when the timer goes off and you didn't get what you want.

I wont claim to know the numbers. How many get unlucky, how many decide to buy it, how many shrug it off, or how many stop playing for x amount of time due to this. But in my eyes its an issue.

As for your fun... i dont want to criticize it... but really? All we do is run in, scour all corners of the map, then kill the acolyte in 10 seconds tops. To me that is tedious. Our definition of fun differs a lot.

(#*!% that got long anyways)

Edited August 11, 2018 by Lers

[Luciole77]

nobody use argon scope when we have point strike -.-

[-CdG-Zilchy]

1 hour ago, Luciole77 said:

nobody use argon scope when we have point strike -.-

Lol tell me you're kidding. It's additive of point strike ie red crits possible.

[Azrael_V]

1 hour ago, Lers said:

Not sure how to reply when you get all emotional like that. Here i was thinking we are civil people debating our views. /sarcasm

Anyways, yeah, not picking that one apart. Started typing up an answer but damn it got long.

Long story short, you also seem to assume much.

I criticize DE because i care, not because i want an easy way out. I've spent more plat the last 5 years than the avarage person. I buy a LOT of skins. Tennogen and otherwise. I dont even mind buying mods, weapons or prime parts... hell even Octavia instruments. I however dont like paying for artificially created scarcity.

You know what you can buy on the price of an Argon Scope? For instance a Condition Overload, which is a gamechanger for many weapons and it has a 0,02% drop chance. And on avarage you'd still have some pocket change left. And thats the LOWEST price Argon Scope goes for, on the hight of its availability.

I criticize because i see this as actually contrary to the standards DE stands for, and because i see this as something that can drive people away simply due to the amount of salt it generates when the timer goes off and you didn't get what you want.

I wont claim to know the numbers. How many get unlucky, how many decide to buy it, how many shrug it off, or how many stop playing for x amount of time due to this. But in my eyes its an issue.

As for your fun... i dont want to criticize it... but really? All we do is run in, scour all corners of the map, then kill the acolyte in 10 seconds tops. To me that is tedious. Our definition of fun differs a lot.

(#*!% that got long anyways)

Priceless. Thank you.

[thegreatAce21]

On 2018-08-11 at 3:13 AM, xXDeadsinxX said:

I don’t think you understand how RNG actually works.

RNG has something to do with it, yes. What really sucks is that on top of RNG for the rewards, there's an RNG of spawn point in the map, RNG of spawn point in the star map, and the controlled factor of limited time frame. 

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

3 hours ago, Lers said:

Not sure how to reply when you get all emotional like that. Here i was thinking we are civil people debating our views. /sarcasm

Anyways, yeah, not picking that one apart. Started typing up an answer but damn it got long.

Long story short, you also seem to assume much.

I criticize DE because i care, not because i want an easy way out. I've spent more plat the last 5 years than the avarage person. I buy a LOT of skins. Tennogen and otherwise. I dont even mind buying mods, weapons or prime parts... hell even Octavia instruments. I however dont like paying for artificially created scarcity.

You know what you can buy on the price of an Argon Scope? For instance a Condition Overload, which is a gamechanger for many weapons and it has a 0,02% drop chance. And on avarage you'd still have some pocket change left. And thats the LOWEST price Argon Scope goes for, on the hight of its availability.

I criticize because i see this as actually contrary to the standards DE stands for, and because i see this as something that can drive people away simply due to the amount of salt it generates when the timer goes off and you didn't get what you want.

I wont claim to know the numbers. How many get unlucky, how many decide to buy it, how many shrug it off, or how many stop playing for x amount of time due to this. But in my eyes its an issue.

As for your fun... i dont want to criticize it... but really? All we do is run in, scour all corners of the map, then kill the acolyte in 10 seconds tops. To me that is tedious. Our definition of fun differs a lot.

(#*!% that got long anyways)

I understand all that, and even agree with specific points of your post, however what we don't want is DE putting hard caps or prices on things. A free market is a fair one.  If you post around on forums/FB groups/Discords, you're bound to find people selling things like Argon Scope for WAY cheaper, or even giving some away.   Again, though, DE doesn't set those prices.  Argon Scope COULD, and arguably SHOULD, be alot cheaper, but as long as there are suckers paying that price, there will be sellers asking for it.

So, like I said, until we as players band together and stop paying that price, there's no incentive for people to stop selling at it.  Yeah?

In order for DE to "rectify" that, they'd either need to force a cap in the market, which is bad, OR they'd need to just make Argon Scope super easy to get, which is also bad because that's one less thing to work for.

I know Trade Chat can suck, and often does, but it's still the fairest system we've seen in a game in a looooong time, in terms of making commodities available to all for free.

As for the Acolytes being fun, we'll have to agree to disagree, and that's okay by me.  It's one of the things I love about Warframe....there's something for most everyone.

[Yagamilight123]

En 10/8/2018 a las 19:29, (XB1)T0PP HATT dijo:

Clearly u don't do much internet talk with the limited space u have to type since most sites only give u so much space to do so!!!! 

Sample size, hmmm.

Ran Malice every time it comes up......I've got Focused Defense 22x, Guided Ordinance 5x, Targeting Sub 2xNarrow Barrel 0........so the sample size is large enough....and yes the event has been running long enough.....

Maybe comeback when u finish grade school,  huh?
 

So you think that its a good enough sample ? you are short for like thousans ..... Follow your own advice and go back to school .

[ViriatoThoundil]

True RNG in computers doesn't exists. It's always the same operation with some external variables (CPU temperature, hour, ...)(there is no other way computers could produce a "random" number). I'm seeing a lot of people talking about RNG when truly, there is no RNG. This ignorance about RNG in computers have lead to important losses in some online betting game because some hackers were able to "hack"(predict) "RNG".If you know the variables you know the random number by making yourself the same operation with those variables, that's the "RNG" we're talking about.

 

And i can say RNG system here is #*!%ed. If you dont get it in 2 hours of farm, you know pretty well you wont ever get it, at least for a week.

Edited August 12, 2018 by ViriatoThoundil

[DuhItzLink]

aren't worth playing? the mods are actually pretty good, and the mods you get are dependent on rng. if you dont want to farm acolytes you can just buy them with plat. don't complain about your bad luck mate

[ViriatoThoundil]

66th attemp and still not the mod i was looking for. I know it's RNG but...if RNG is making game insane, i think that there should be a limit. You can't tell your players to take a rest each hour and then things like this...

Edited August 12, 2018 by ViriatoThoundil

[(PSN)johnsoigne]

I trade almost every single day. They are worth playing I assure you. Even if you don’t get rare mods you get bunch of common mods which can be sold for 10-30p. Having variety of things to sell shortens time you have to spend in trade chat. If you have played previous events that’s another story but it is still worth playing for me for sure.

Edited August 12, 2018 by (PS4)johnsoigne

[(PSN)Silverback73]

On 2018-08-10 at 3:48 PM, (PS4)Gerbizzzle said:

While everyone is busy farming the acolytes, farm other stuff like corrupted mods, aura mods, prime parts, vaulted items etc... Sell those for plat and buy the acolyte mods you want or trade for them.

 

basically, grinding is GOING to happen, but why stress yourself out for 4% drop rates when you could have a more leisure grind and still get what you want at the end of the day?

Run Sorties.  Get Rivens.  Get Kuva.

Reroll.

Kuva missions have 100% chance to give Kuva when completed.

Rivens have a 100% chance to reroll when you spend Kuva to reroll them 😆.

And Rivens are multi-stat.

 

[Luciole77]

On 2018-08-11 at 10:01 PM, Zilchy said:

Lol tell me you're kidding. It's additive of point strike ie red crits possible.

Dont need red criticals 100% of the time...a good balanced riven kill very easy.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

8 hours ago, Luciole77 said:

Dont need red criticals 100% of the time...a good balanced riven kill very easy.

Yeh cos a riven is so much cheaper than Argon scope... 

Also that is irrelevant to what I was replying to, the statement was that argon scope is not needed when we have point strike which is just dim.