Digital Extremes, Sumpo Food Holdings Ltd Shares in partnership/Ownership, and the Future of Warframe.

[(PSN)Darekai]

This post has been begun out of curiosity for the opinion of both players, and Developers.

Keep it civil.

I'll Reiterate a few facts about the subject to lay the groundwork for people to understand the status quo and then open the discussion:

On Q3 of 2014, Digital Extremes [DE] Sold the majority of its shares to a 3rd party, "Multi Dynamic Games Group Inc." [MDGG], which in turn is a subsidiary of

parent company "Sumpo Food Holdings Ltd" [SFH].  Another 3% was sold to another Company called "Perfect World" [PW], now called Perfect Online [PO] for right to develop games in the Chinese Market.

The remainder is distributed by two ltd ontario branches, and 6.2% retained for an employee trust

Majority Implies greater than 50% or more (E.g. 50.000000001% is majority), in this case it hovers around 58%. Effectivelly making [DE] a Subsidiary of [MDGG] and [SFH] as a parent company.

[MDGG] is an investment experiment of parent Company [SFH], [MDGG] dedicates to the gaming industry, whilst the parent company, [SFH], is dedicated to the Food processing....indu..stry... Mostly processed meat from, and feed for, Poultry and Swine, amongst other food processing, distribution, etc. 

A Subsidiary in short terms, and avoiding international overlap of definitions and commerce laws and regulations on its implementation, is basically:

"a company that is owned or controlled by another company, which is called the parent company, or holding company."

A Holding's Company is a "special" Kind of Company that simply, holds other companies. 

• TL,DR: [DE] Shares where purchased as a diversification of assets exercise by Holding's Co. : [MDGG] a.k.a: [SFH].

---

There are Many types of shares, one of them is "sales" Shares, otherwise known as "Class B" Special Shares, which as the name implies, The sharing of Sales (profit/Dividends etc). Another is called the Common shares, these Shares are an indication of "ownership of the company". The Above News reflects, both types of shares.......................

58% of Sales AND 58% of the Company is effectively owned by [MDGG] a.k.a [SFH], the other 39% is owned by Digital Extremes, and more directly by Mr. James Schmalz, CEO of Digital Extremes.

The Purchase was made for Roughly ~73 Million Dollars in Q3 of 2014, and effective Q1 of 2015.

What people may or may not know is that, shortly there after [SFH] "Sumpo Food Holding's co." Droped in its entirety all their assets and businesses for poultry and food, citing, the decay in the economy and food safety, and was reborn solely as a technology company.....now called "LEYOU TECHNOLOGIES HOLDINGS LIMITED" [LTHL]

Shortly thereafter, like less than 30 days, the Acquisition of Digital extremes was made full circle. By the end of Q4 2015, [LTHL] purchased the remaining 39% of Both, Sale and common stock from Digital Extremes for an additional 46.8 Million, Totaling roughly 120 Million, giving [LTHL] effectivelly control over 97% of both the company as an entity, and 97% of the Sales, and revenue.

The Vendors for these transactions was the Ceo and associated ceo family members in its entirety. I presume this was used to cover the closure of any existing liabilities , loans and debt that the company had with other outside investors, but i presume a summable ammount of that remained.

This types of cascading sales and acquisitions are done to comply with the law and prevent hostile take overs and mitigate any negative impact it may have on the vendors and buyers.

so a sale may happen slowly in chunks for this purpose, and of course taxes and legal jargon and ( knock yourself out and insert slew of inumerables in here people).

 

And thus Digital Extremes, and thus in term, Warframe became a Chinese company and property.

TL,DR: [DE] Basically sold 97% of its profit per year, every year and 97% of the company's control, in order to gain investment capital.....................................

---

I will reiterate, this is not news, this happened back in Q3 of 2014 and ended by 2015, roughly 3 years ago.

It is very common practice, both by parent companies looking to gain footing on a market that they previously don't have development in,and as a normal tactic by Developing Companies looking for Cash and stability to make their company grow, its a win-win^[1] relationship where developers get immediate money to work with, and investors get dividends and payback as well as penetration to a market that is not easily accessible due to their position.Its also a very common practice by Holding Companies as well.

The topic of discussion is that these relationships can last years, but they are never ever permanent. these relationships are formed when there is a mutual benefit amongts parties. one this reward deviates, and goals start to separate, the relationship terminates. in majority of the cases by the party that has the most control.

For the purpose of discussion we will ignore the 3rd company [PO] wich owns 3% of [DE] Shares and rights for development in china.
Again i repeat, this is not news, this is 3 year old information, but it does provide good background information for the discussion, that is, if this post doesn't suddenly disappear i guess.

---

Discussion Starts Here

On any normal partnership, when the relationship no longer works, assets (property), money, and intellectual property are divided amongst the parties involved, like divorces...i guess children are the intellectual property in this analogy....dont think too hard on it.

But this is the special case of a holding's company. These companies can acquire and drop a lot of cash liquidity for struggling companies, by taking on these financial pressures, the smaller company can strive. But because these companies are so far removed, their primary motivation is, cashflow, revenue, revenue growth, and most importantly, Market share (the amount of people buying your stuff instead of other people's stuff). Not, art, nor enjoyment, but profit. Full circle... a Holding's company is Nef Anyo.

when a company hits a creative wall, and  their product becomes repetitive, or old, or boring, the company has only one choice, re-invent yourself or die. Warframe saw some of this in its early years, lack of investors  and incomplete product ideas and so forth, but they kept trying. the Struggle was the path for warframe to be born.

 

Warframe continues to evolve and re-invent itself and do new things, but its not as free as it was in 2013.

its 2018, MR is 25 out of 30, that roughly translates 83% in 5 years. to at most  to 1.2 more years... 2020?

as a general rule for  of product and demand, most tangible and intangible products follow a growth path similar to an arc Tangent function like the one below:

where it takes a while for the product to start selling consistently, then the growth phase, then it starts to plateau. at this point its considered a "Mature product", meaning no new customer volume is expected, only decline.  for way of life products, like for example oxygen tanks, people will keep buying, because they want to stay alive. for all other products, they get replaced, or substituted by newer ones. computers, cars, clothing.....games...

Warframe is at roughly at its 80% stage.  for those that have played warframe since its inception, we can see the light at the end of the current tunnel.the final chapters of the story are currently taking form, and the players are getting ready to approach their reward, their glory after winning the old war becoming the new war.....the ..last war...

the end of the war.

its inevitable that the game is hinting at resolution.

 

As for Digital extremes, i presume they must be working on other future projects and directions or collaborations with other titles ..of course......right?

As of the writing of this post, there is only one other product, currently in development and in collaboration with human head studios called "Survived by":

Here is  picture of the teaser currently displayed on Digital Extremes website, the website for the game and the youtube video for it.

DE Website teaser:

https://www.survivedby.com/

Youtube Video

An Isometric 2d Platformer MMO where knights charge into battles, and if they die... their kin, their successors, their bloodline continues their fight for glory. currently in closed beta, very retro nostalgia...except for one tiny problem... a little game called ...Rogue Legacy..

in 2013  a game called rogue legacy launched, since then it has been distributed to pc, ps3, ps4 and xbox. and the premise is simple....

A  2d Platformer  where knights charge into battles, and if they die... their kin, their successors, their bloodline continues their fight for glory. currently has been released for over 5 years now, very retro nostalgia.. except its not massive multiplayer.. and not isometric..so its...different... im sure there are licencing discussions atm, if there arent, o boi....

this brings me to the parent holding company,

 a lot of foreign game companies tend to focus on either 1 quality game, or, the mass production of volumes of different titles with small development overhead, sometimes rebranded modules with different skins. capture the market with volume, not quality. which is why the apple store and android stores are  plagued with copies upon copies upon copies of platformers and other things that seem to be the same, but different in some insignificant way, but significant enough not to be in legal jeopardy.....for most...i think..

looking at the pattern of [LTHL] over the past 2 years indicates they are of the latter category. shock and awe grab our loot, and disappear into the next game.

I believe this brand does not align with warframe, or with the original digital extremes, i may be wrong....god, i hope im wrong....

but i also hope i am... right.. because that will be the only way Digital extremes could survive within its parent company.

the worst thing that can happen is that, the growth becomes stagnant enough, and the holding company liquidates or sells off Digital extremes to the highest bidder for more groffit, or in the case of liquidation for asset recovery.

---

Open discussion for questions and other facts:

To [DE] Developers:

• Are there any other titles currently not mentioned currently in development or in colaboration? and if so what category would they fall in? B,A, AA, AAA?

• The Sale and acquisition basically guaranteed that the company would continue to operate for the next five years since 2013, in hind sight. In Hindsight,was it worth it? would the same deal be struck again knowing what you know now?
• Out of the 120 Million US dollars that the Acquisition was worth, how much of it was re-distributed to the employees and how much of ti stayed at the CEO level?
• Is there any current litigation between [DE], Human Head Studios, and Cellar Door Games?
• What does Warframe look like after Mastery Rank 30?
• It is clear, to me, that the Arching story for the New war, is the closing chapter of the lotus: Daughter is sent to murder, her identity is conflicted and she rebels against her true nature, only to be swayed back to what she was made for, a tool for destruction. we as players have seen this unfold, conflicted pawns in a story that unfolded before us, and its our final duty to put an end to her suffering and misery. "Absolute power corrupts absolutely","You Either Die A Hero, Or You Live Long Enough To See Yourself Become The Villain". Warframe is a playwright greek tragedy, and the catharsis of this story, is when we the players free Natah from her suffering pain, i cant write this in any other way that doesnt have too much spoilers. any thoughts? your more than welcomed to message me privately if the need arise.

To Players

• What do you think of the Company being owned by a Chinese conglomerate? Did you knew about it?
• How long do you think Warframe will continue to operate? Do you see yourself playing warframe 2 years from now?
• Most Gamers cycle in and out of Warframe^[2] syncronized with the development cycle of new updates. what other games do you play when you get bored of warframe?
• Its been 5 years and we haven't used the light , neutral, and dark mechanic, the moon vs the sun vs the ying-yang in a meaningful way. so far it Changes only how events are perceived, but not necessarily the truth behind the matter. Given, that its my interpretation that the New war is the last chapter of Warframe, how do you think it will impact the finally?

---

In Closing:

Im not quite sure who will read this post, how long will it survive, or if it will be moved and or burried, or even worse, deleted. this post is only posted here, for developers and true players alike. its an honest query with some data, and my limited opinion. I declare that warframe is one of my favorite pastimes for the last 5 years, and here is me hoping that the next year and a half are as interesting as the previous five. My Mindset is that all things have an end, eventually, and there is nothing wrong with that.

For those willing to reply, please keep a good decorum, honesty and respect. all opinions are welcomed as long as they are constructive or inqusitive

Once again thank you for your dedication.I'll Continue to support the developers in any endeavor they are currently pursuing or in the future.

Sincerelly

A Loyal Tenno,  

References

• Original Agreement Q3 2014 SUMPO FOOD HOLDINGS LIMITED:ACQUISITION OF 58% OF THE ENTIRE ISSUED SHARE CAPITAL OF DIGITAL EXTREMES
• Sumpo foods is now Leyou Tehcnologies Sumpo Food Holdings Limited :CHANGE OF COMPANY NAME AND STOCK SHORT NAME Leyhou Technologies holdings Limited
• Aggregated Agreement 2015 LEYOU TECHNOLOGIES HOLDINGS LIMITED: ACQUISITION OF THE REMAINING 39％ OF THE ISSUED SHARE CAPITAL OF DIGITAL EXTREMES
• Digital Extremes website

1. ^{[1]win-win.......sometimes this depends on the eye of the beholder}
2. ^{[2] Warframe User Cycle Data Extrapolated solely from Stream statistics, Never the less its a known  sinusoidal consumer pattern that is, for the most part, correlated to content update, and degrading factors due to interest, and novelty.}

Edited August 11, 2018 by (PS4)Darekai
Forgot Notations [1] and [2] under references. Improved some pagination line characters for readability. no other content change. Incorrect use of in Lieu, changed for in term

[peterc3]

The devs aren't going to discuss business.

[(PSN)Darekai]

4 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

The devs aren't going to discuss business.

You may be right. Still the door is open. who knows, we could be pleasantly surprised.

Also your more than welcomed to take a stab ad the questions at the end or post your own if your interested.

Thanks for the reply.

Edited August 11, 2018 by (PS4)Darekai
forgot quote

[rune_me]

I found the wall of text that sunk The Titanic.

[(PSN)Darekai]

Just now, rune_me said:

I found the wall of text that sunk The Titanic.

hehe, Yea its pretty lengthy i bet. have you had the chance to read it all yet?

[Volinus7]

Leyou is a shell company set up by PW(corrected) 

https://venturebeat.com/2017/09/02/gamesbeat-boss-interview-chinas-leyou-moves-from-chicken-meat-to-triple-a-game-publishing/

Since there were many people yelled at PWE news years ago, use a different name, problem solved. 

The shell company was planned for buyback but not happened as who knows it's a fabricated plot twist or real double-crossing. 

 

PS: Looks like some people really get triggered by the term "perfect world" to the point that PWE was renamed into Arc games lol. 

Edited August 11, 2018 by Volinus7

[Sean]

They definitely won't publicize anything on that, especially within the forums of all places.

 

The forums are so distant from the goings-on within upper management that I'd be immensely surprised if anyone managing the forums even know the full extent of what transpired. Even expect that this topic may end up locked, deleted, or simply hidden. You may want to back up your topic as it does look like you have put quite a bit of thought and work into it.

 

While you acknowledge that this isn't new, it is something that has been discussed almost to death, initially back when Perfect World Entertainment got their hands into Warframe, mainly for their disastrous past involving some Star Trek MMO game.

 

 

As for my own perspective on this, it's been interesting. There has been a slight shift over time with how DE interacts with the community that appears to have started from around that time, now whether that is just because DE having grown within that period or actually something by their change in ownership is to be debated. Though even a few things involving censorship and how the bot is used is is something that appears more to have shifted as well when you compare then to now. The bot in the past would actually say how long you wouldn't be able to use a chat for instance and context appeared to matter more; now it's just say some word that isn't offensive until you change the context, and then you're given a ban, and the general culture within China is a bit stricter on things like that, but again that may just be more tied to the people who have cycled into those jobs over time being a bit more sensitive and unforgiving regardless of context.

 

 

[(PSN)Elixz8247]

Life...Life without Warframe...Life without Clem. As i ponder upon the realization that all things end, and this unbreakable law also applies to the game that I spent 4 years of my life with I shed a single tear...Oh who am i kidding i break down turning into a broken man a shell of my former self. A Glorious Tenno now wailing like a newborn baby.

Please brothers and sisters heal my broken heart. HELP ME FIND CLOSURE.

Seriously though what are some other games similar to WF?

 

Edited August 11, 2018 by (PS4)Elixz8247

[(PSN)Darekai]

3 minutes ago, Volinus7 said:

Leyou is a shell company set up by PWE. 

https://venturebeat.com/2017/09/02/gamesbeat-boss-interview-chinas-leyou-moves-from-chicken-meat-to-triple-a-game-publishing/

Since there were many people yelled at PWE news years ago, use a different name, problem solved. 

I think PWE ("Perfect World games") is a Subsidiary of Perfect World Online Online or [PO], they own 3% of [DE] and the rights for content creation in china for their version of warframe and so forth. i also exluded that topic altogether because, its been debated already, given their past involvement in games. this discussion is not about content creation, rather the future of [DE] as a company

[(PSN)Darekai]

4 minutes ago, Sean said:

They definitely won't publicize anything on that, especially within the forums of all places.

 

The forums are so distant from the goings-on within upper management that I'd be immensely surprised if anyone managing the forums even know the full extent of what transpired. Even expect that this topic may end up locked, deleted, or simply hidden. You may want to back up your topic as it does look like you have put quite a bit of thought and work into it.

 

While you acknowledge that this isn't new, it is something that has been discussed almost to death, initially back when Perfect World Entertainment got their hands into Warframe, mainly for their disastrous past involving some Star Trek MMO game.

 

 

As for my own perspective on this, it's been interesting. There has been a slight shift over time with how DE interacts with the community that appears to have started from around that time, now whether that is just because DE having grown within that period or actually something by their change in ownership is to be debated. Though even a few things involving censorship and how the bot is used is is something that appears more to have shifted as well when you compare then to now. The bot in the past would actually say how long you wouldn't be able to use a chat for instance and context appeared to matter more; now it's just say some word that isn't offensive until you change the context, and then you're given a ban, and the general culture within China is a bit stricter on things like that, but again that may just be more tied to the people who have cycled into those jobs over time being a bit more sensitive and unforgiving regardless of context.

 

 

Thanks for the equally lengthy post ^_^. dedication. 

One of the things i mentioned is that in this post, i wasnt discussing the effects of Perfect World Games/PErfect World Online, or Perfect Online, given they own only 3% of the company, and distribution of different content in the republic of china. this subect is about [LTHL] which i dont think is associated with [PO]. their only link is that they were both Buyers under the same agreement.

Also before you forget, take a look at the questions after the read, and give us your thoughts on those

 

[(PSN)Darekai]

9 minutes ago, (PS4)Elixz8247 said:

Life...Life without Warframe...Life without Clem. As i ponder upon the realization that all things end, and this unbreakable law also applies to the game that I spent 4 years of my life with I shed a single tear...Oh who am i kidding i break down turning into a broken man a shell of my former self. A Glorious Tenno now wailing like a newborn baby.

Please brothers and sisters heal my broken heart. HELP ME FIND CLOSURE.

Seriously though what are some other games similar to WF?

 

All good stories have a beginning and end. Else, they wouldn't be good stories.

I Myself am looking forward to these new upcoming updates, but also looking forward to what new games [DE] is working on in the future.

Edited August 11, 2018 by (PS4)Darekai
and and and and tooo many ands

[(PSN)watt4hem]

Not gonna lie, i skim read through the op because holly balls that was long, I'd need to get comfy at home to read that.

But on topic : i don't think i'll ever stop playing warframe tbh. Even now i'm at a time where i hardly get the chance to sit down and play too often, but i still do play and still am interested in it. In between warframe are generally offline single player games (no online game ever stuck with me for some reasons like me hating pvp, subscriptions, dealing with salty people, etc.) Which meant warframe sits at my niche position outside of the regular stuff i play.

 

As S#&$ty as chinese companies tend to be, they are a good backer to have for de. If they do make another game, i think they should take advantage of the evolution engine, kinda like valve with source. Less money on engines and more opportunities to advance it.

 

Also also, if we do get something from sumpo food, i'd expect nothing less than loki charms cereal amd greedy milk bags.

Edited August 11, 2018 by (PS4)watt4hem
I hate phone keyboard.

[(PSN)Darekai]

1 minute ago, (PS4)watt4hem said:

As S#&$ty as chinese companies tend to be, they are a good backer to have for de. If they do make another game, i think they should take advantage of the evolution engine, kinda like valve with source. Less momey on engines and more opportunities to advance it.

Heres is fingers cross this to be true, given most Chinese game companies go for volume development instead of quality. they rather invest in 1,000 small indie platformers than 1 high overhead triple A title. Even Worse if its a holding company.

2 minutes ago, (PS4)watt4hem said:

Also also, if we do get something from sumpo food, i'd expect nothing less than loki charms cereal amd greedy milk bags.

Sumpo Foods is no more, they rebranded into LTHL, back in 2013 the Swine flu was in full swing and all companies related to poultry, swine (pork) and stock feed took a massive hit.

they also rebranded because they as a holding company for food, they droped all their companies related to food, and started buying tech companies, including [DE]

TL:DR they dont sell food no more. just technology.

[rune_me]

36 minutes ago, (PS4)Darekai said:

What do you think of the Company being owned by a Chinese conglomerate? Did you knew about it?

Don't affect me in any way. All companies have owners. All companies is in the business of making profit. Doesn't matter if you are a small indy developer or Ubisoft, if you can't pay the bills, you're out. And yes I knew about it. I think most people do.

38 minutes ago, (PS4)Darekai said:

How long do you think Warframe will continue to operate? Do you see yourself playing warframe 2 years from now?

I doubt I'll be playing Warframe 2 years from now. At least I hope I won't, since that would mean nothing better has come along in that time. I already only check in for the daily login reward and to see what is going on. 2 years from now I'll probably be playing something else. I'd probably return when there are big updates, new frames, etc, and stay for a while.

40 minutes ago, (PS4)Darekai said:

Its been 5 years and we haven't used the light , neutral, and dark mechanic, the moon vs the sun vs the ying-yang in a meaningful way. so far it Changes only how events are perceived, but not necessarily the truth behind the matter. Given, that its my interpretation that the New war is the last chapter of Warframe, how do you think it will impact the finally?

No one said The New War is the last chapter. If we agree that the main purpose of Warframe is to generate money, then they will want to keep it alive as long as it keeps doing that. And it seems to be doing that very well, right now. Now the artists and developers can be forgiven for getting tired of working on the same game for year after year after year, and I'd imagine there are already some of them who would rather be working on a new game. But as employees, that is probably not their decision to make.

[(PSN)watt4hem]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Darekai said:

they dont sell food no more. just technology.

[Sean]

Just now, (PS4)Darekai said:

Thanks for the equally lengthy post ^_^. dedication. 

One of the things i mentioned is that in this post, i wasnt discussing the effects of Perfect World Games/PErfect World Online, or Perfect Online, given they own only 3% of the company, and distribution of different content in the republic of china. this subect is about [LTHL] which i dont think is associated with [PO]. their only link is that they were both Buyers under the same agreement.

Also before you forget, take a look at the questions after the read, and give us your thoughts on those

 

 

Sure.

 

• What do you think of the Company being owned by a Chinese conglomerate? Did you knew about it?

Mixed, mostly based on the changes that I've noticed over time, though I do understand that the "partnership" has allowed them to grow as a company overall.

Knew about it since back when it hit the news all those years ago.

 

 

• How long do you think Warframe will continue to operate? Do you see yourself playing warframe 2 years from now?

Will probably continue on just as long as it maintains profitability.

I know DE has tried to create another game (Amazing Eternals), but that ultimately failed. They are currently releasing a new game, but it is significantly smaller than Amazing Eternals and Warframe. The game is called "Survived By" and they have it listed on their company website -- https://www.digitalextremes.com/

I'll probably keep playing Warframe, or at least hop back in it every now and then, but while still keeping an eye.... that is unless DE does something disasterous for the game. Not a fan of some of their changes that only created bugs (the new UI and Controller update significantly degraded gameplay and functionality with a controller which is my preferred method for playing games, but I can get by on a KB/M). Then there's other areas that feel like a waste of development resources (Frame Fighters, Peculiar Mods, PvP Stalker), though still hopeful from what I've seen of Fortuna and enjoyed the recent batch of story quests.

 

 

• Most Gamers cycle in and out of Warframe^[2] syncronized with the development cycle of new updates. what other games do you play when you get bored of warframe?

I honestly don't play many games these days. I went to Prey for a bit with the new update, and now been into No Man's Sky again due to their update, but I keep ending up back to Warframe. Though the clan I'm in helps keeping me interesting as it really isn't so much about the "game" at this point for me.

 

• Its been 5 years and we haven't used the light , neutral, and dark mechanic, the moon vs the sun vs the ying-yang in a meaningful way. so far it Changes only how events are perceived, but not necessarily the truth behind the matter. Given, that its my interpretation that the New war is the last chapter of Warframe, how do you think it will impact the finally?

I don't where this was, but I recall [DE]Steve having an issue with the morality system and not really liking how it was ultimately done (this was prior to the Sacrifice), so it may be further expanded on over time, but I don't really see it becoming something too huge without a significant overhaul.

[(PSN)Darekai]

1 minute ago, Sean said:

They are currently releasing a new game, but it is significantly smaller than Amazing Eternals and Warframe. The game is called "Survived By" and they have it listed on their company website -- https://www.digitalextremes.com/

i know ^_^ i talked about that in the original post.

50 minutes ago, (PS4)Darekai said:

As of the writing of this post, there is only one other product, currently in development and in collaboration with human head studios called "Survived by":

Here is  picture of the teaser currently displayed on Digital Extremes website, the website for the game and the youtube video for it.

DE Website teaser:



i  mentioned given it is basically 75% the contents of another game called Rogue Legacy. im worried there might be litigation issues due to infringement :/. 

[---Merchant---]

16 minutes ago, (PS4)Darekai said:

i know ^_^ i talked about that in the original post.

i  mentioned given it is basically 75% the contents of another game called Rogue Legacy. im worried there might be litigation issues due to infringement :/. 

Realm of the Mad God...

[Marvelous_A]

They don't really need to publicize their business plan to players but honestly I think giving out ownership of the company is definitely a not so foresightful decision. But as it's going, DE still has full control on the game development, but when their investors start thinking they're better in making a good game this game will deteriorate real fast and will shut down within 1 year. And the trigger will likely be reduced financial return of a certain year and I do think it will be how this game ends.

Edited August 11, 2018 by Marvelous_A

[peterc3]

46 minutes ago, Volinus7 said:

Leyou is a shell company set up by PWE. 

The head of Leyou was working at Perfect World and then left it. Where does it say Leyou was set up by Perfect World - note that isn't the same entity as Perfect World Entertainment, a subsidiary of Perfect World.

[(PSN)Darekai]

First, Thanks for the reply ^_^.

3 minutes ago, Marvelous_A said:

DE still has full control on the game development

I dont think this is true. if they had Only sold the Sale Shares(CLass B Shares) then yes, it would be an investment

But they sold 97% of the common shares. this means that [LTHL] Owns the Mayority vote in all decision in the board of the directors.

as an extreme example, if [LTHL] decides tomorrow that the want the company to redirect efforts into Pachinko machines, thats what [DE] Would be developing moving forward.

That said, i dont think they are in the need to enforce those rights atm, but once revenue stagnates and the market growth flatlines, [DE] Could be liquidated or sold for Pennies on the dollar.

[(PSN)Darekai]

Just now, peterc3 said:

The head of Leyou was working at Perfect World and then left it. Where does it say Leyou was set up by Perfect World - note that isn't the same entity as Perfect World Entertainment, a subsidiary of Perfect World.

just as Peter states [PWE], and [PW], and Perfect online, are not associated to Leyou, although they share a history.

ITs also worth noting that the Entire board of directors of Leyou Technologies Holding Limited was replaced in or around the time [DE] Was Acquired as a whole.

[Marvelous_A]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)Darekai said:

First, Thanks for the reply ^_^.

I dont think this is true. if they had Only sold the Sale Shares(CLass B Shares) then yes, it would be an investment

But they sold 97% of the common shares. this means that [LTHL] Owns the Mayority vote in all decision in the board of the directors.

as an extreme example, if [LTHL] decides tomorrow that the want the company to redirect efforts into Pachinko machines, thats what [DE] Would be developing moving forward.

That said, i dont think they are in the need to enforce those rights atm, but once revenue stagnates and the market growth flatlines, [DE] Could be liquidated or sold for Pennies on the dollar.

But fow now it appears DE still do what they want without trouble and they still get to do stupid stuff like Frame Fighter. So as long as their parental company don't interfere with their game development plan it will be fine. The point is their Chinese bosses don't think they are better developers than DE, like what EA did with their game studios.

And I'm not familiar with law stuff but I'd be interested in who actually owns the IP of warframe at this moment. Is it DE or their parental company?

Edited August 11, 2018 by Marvelous_A

[(PSN)Darekai]

4 minutes ago, Marvelous_A said:

And I'm not familiar with law stuff but I'd be interested in who actually owns the IP of warframe at this moment. Is it DE or their parental company?

The IP is owned by [DE] But [DE] is in itself 97% owned by  the parent company and 3% owned by [Perfect world]. if IP is somehow litigated, it would mean that the parent company

[LTHL] owns 97%, in value. and [PW] owns the other 3%. any decision is controlled by majority vote, ergo  [LTHL] owns 97%, they make the decision regarding the IP

However if they decide to Sell the IP for profit, they can, they hold majority rule, however they would need to evaluate the IP and monetize its value and any future estimated revenue from it, and pay 3% of it to Perfect World. a simpler way would be to simply buy out the 3% common stock from [PW] with the limited agreement that they can continue using the license as previously stated.

Make sense?

[Firetempest]

Little has changed in almost 6 years of development other than reaching higher and higher content goals. And WF has only grown in success each year. As long as thats the trend, I doubt we will see much in the way of interference from their cooperate overlords as they have mentioned still having complete creative power over Warframe when the sale was made public. I doubt the same blanket of protection will fall over any other new DE title, like Keystone trying to get on the hero shooter ban wagon last year for loot crates.

Edited August 11, 2018 by Firetempest