-..- Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 (edited) Also posted this to Reddit for maximum exposure. Seems to be getting a lot of downvotes though. =\(http://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/2p5l9v/twin_queens_this_is_it_our_chance_for_endgame/) EDIT: This is important to note. This thread is to facilitate a discussion regarding the future Twin Queens. Don't take my word as concrete. It's merely my own suggestions. You are free to dispute or create your own suggestions as you please. Keep the discussion civil please! EDIT2: Quick introduction for those who care (if not, skip to the next paragraph), I'm a Mastery Rank 18 Master founder. Over 2000 hours spent on the game. My best gear is all forma'd 5 times at least. All the mods I use are maxed. The "endgame" at the moment is rep capping in under an hour once a day, hoping for an event or update to pop up so you can play a little longer. This is my hope for something to pull in all the people who are like me -- bored with no goals. I love this game to death, but at this rate I don't know how much longer I can stand this monotony. I want to do something more that will hold my attention. Endless T4 for an hour is a cakewalk. Something levels above that needs to be implemented. Something that can't be completed with just a simple pug from Recruiting chat. I want to have to be in Teamspeak/Raidcall trying to muster up a strategy. Upping void towers to T5/T6 etc isn't going to cut it. I want a real endgame. It'll also give all of us Tenno something to strive for. It won't just be farm more to farm more (I know a lot of people who quit when they realized this was the point of the game). It'll be farm more to fight some badass crazy boss. During the livestream you announced the Twin Queens are in development. DE I beg you. The Twin Queens are the end all be all of the Grineer. This is what we've all been waiting for. This needs to be turned into a raid. You can't have the matriarchal head of the entire Grineer Empire be taken down by a measly 4 Tenno. And don't let us down with a simple "Enter the mission, fight Twin Queens, done." This is what I'm really hoping for with the release of the Twin Queens at the very least (Feel free to discuss more below): -Attunement quest: A difficult quest that introduces the raid. The very lowest and basic gearcheck. -Large group: A full 10 man minimum raid group. -Fixed map: Either a fixed map with all tiles in a single order, or randomize the trash tiles between raid bosses while keeping boss tiles and order fixed. -High level raid trash: Level 100+ Grineer dealt with in groups. No constant respawning. Tactically placed throughout the tile. Add more enemy types with unique mechanics we need to deal with in certain ways (Nullifiers and Tar Moa are good starts). Perhaps even stealth will be needed for overly difficult enemies. -Several Raid Bosses culminating in the final showdown with the Twin Queens: Several or all of the Grineer bosses currently in the game with their own boss rooms and improved statistics and mechanics. Complicated mechanics requiring teamwork and precise tactics to defeat. Force us to utilize positioning along with the movement options (i.e. parkour) we use during normal missions. Several phases for each boss, maybe adds spawn throughout the fight at intervals, and enrage timer to weed out groups with either underpar gear or poor execution of tactics (no mistakes allowed). Each boss will be a unique fight requiring unique tactics. -Difficulty options: Lowest will allow for PUGs to get a feel for the mechanics and raid overall. Lower difficulty levels have fewer mechanics, weaker/fewer trash, more room for errors. Highest difficulty will require little to no errors be made during the raid bosses. Any difficulty above the first requires a premade group. -Raid Gear: Each difficulty grants a certain level of gear. Higher difficulties give better gear. Pretty simple one. Only obtainable from raids. You can only obtain drops once a week. -(Optional) Global Acknowledgement (World Firsts): First raid completion of each difficulty will be broadcasted via Redtext. Groups will get a sigil/emblem showing world first completion. Relays will have their names engraved somewhere in Tennobet showing their great accomplishment. -(Optional) Legendary Item: Rare drop. Something with an extremely low chance to drop (5%). Only dropped from Twin Queens at the highest difficulty. OR Legendary questline (recommended). Obtain items from all raid bosses on highest difficulty at semi low drop rates (20%). Items are used in a long quest deeply involving lore. Will take several months to obtain all in total. Extremely satisfying to complete. Very few people will obtain a legendary item. It will have stronger stats than top raid gear and/or a unique game changing effect. A showing of not only power, but determination (or luck). This is it DE. This. Is. It. The embodiment of endgame. The first raid of the game. A chance to show us what a real challenge is, and what real endgame players are capable of. The best players will clear it first. It could take weeks, or months to beat. Hours of practicing strategies with clan and alliance mates. Slowly but surely progressing through the raid in order to finally get that elusive raid gear. Screaming and yelling when mistakes are made. The feeling of relief and satisfaction when you finally down each boss all up to the huge boulder being lifted off your back when you down the Twin Queens. Raids are where the real friendships are forged and broken. Where the real men emerge from the flames. But above all... Seriously stop @(*()$ standing in the fire. Edited December 13, 2014 by -..- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mintfeast Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 Can't give this enough up-votes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealPandemonium Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 Yeah, level 100 Napalms are really deep and challenging. It'll be like apollodorus, except you don't have to wait two hours! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OHyeahWF Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 Unique map , more than 4 player a squad, special quest line. I believe something like that would happen soon, since Relay station is done too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
letir Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 -Several Raid Bosses culminating in the final showdown with the Twin Queens: Several or all of the Grineer bosses currently in the game with their own boss rooms and improved statistics and mechanics. Complicated mechanics requiring teamwork and precise tactics to defeat. Force us to utilize positioning along with the movement options (i.e. parkour) we use during normal missions. Several phases for each boss, maybe adds spawn throughout the fight at intervals, and enrage timer to weed out groups with either underpar gear or poor execution of tactics (no mistakes allowed). Each boss will be a unique fight requiring unique tactics. Are we talking about Warframe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-..- Posted December 13, 2014 Author Share Posted December 13, 2014 (edited) Unique map , more than 4 player a squad, special quest line. I believe something like that would happen soon, since Relay station is done too. IIRC Vay Hek currently has a unique map. It's definitely within the realms of possibility for DE to do it. Are we talking about Warframe? Have you ever played Nightmare Jackal? It's ridiculously fun and similar to a low level raid boss. Mine Ospreys spawn and litter the field with bombs. Dodging the stomps and one shot rockets. Containers falling from the sky when you run out of ammo. It's this but on crack and for endgame players. Edited December 13, 2014 by -..- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagPrime Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 I like it! But why a 10 Tenno group instead of 12? Wind up with a 3/3/4 team split. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vyrn Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 sounds like WoW to me...or really any other more "classical" mmo I'd be up for it (major understatement), but there would need to be lots of tweaking and adjusting for certain mechanics. Players utilizing certain strategies can achieve ridiculous amounts of damage, so there would have to be more than just a large raw health pool. Multiple stages/phases with steps to accomplish would be necessary, obviously, as would an incredible amount of planning and direction. The whole fight would be an insane balancing act for the designers. The main thing for me is that it must have enough counters to necessitate having a full, organized team. It should be absolutely impossible to solo, otherwise I (or some other player) will just break it. I think that's the main thing for me, really. There has never been a mission that is unbeatable alone, and that's really a shame. None of that "world first" stuff, though. Let's just avoid that before it even begins. IIRC Vay Hek currently has a unique map. It's definitely within the realms of possibility for DE to do it. Only the final room and the connecting room are static. The rest of his map is randomly generated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToxicTroublermaker Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 YESSS BRING US THE ENDGAME Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-..- Posted December 13, 2014 Author Share Posted December 13, 2014 (edited) sounds like WoW to me...or really any other more "classical" mmo I'd be up for it (major understatement), but there would need to be lots of tweaking and adjusting for certain mechanics. Players utilizing certain strategies can achieve ridiculous amounts of damage, so there would have to be more than just a large raw health pool. Multiple stages/phases with steps to accomplish would be necessary, obviously, as would an incredible amount of planning and direction. The whole fight would be an insane balancing act for the designers. The main thing for me is that it must have enough counters to necessitate having a full, organized team. It should be absolutely impossible to solo, otherwise I (or some other player) will just break it. I think that's the main thing for me, really. There has never been a mission that is unbeatable alone, and that's really a shame. None of that "world first" stuff, though. Let's just avoid that before it even begins. Only the final room and the connecting room are static. The rest of his map is randomly generated. The balancing for a larger group of players is definitely going to be a large hurdle for DE. I believe large amounts of damage can be circumvented via weakspots a la Jackal. Yeah, the WF stuff is just for fun though. I understand if you don't really feel it. I like it! But why a 10 Tenno group instead of 12? Wind up with a 3/3/4 team split. I was thinking 12 as well. I just decided to pick 10 because it's a more rounded number and less strain on computers. Edited December 13, 2014 by -..- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AoiiToori Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 (edited) I had this concept of a raid a month ago. I'll post it here. Well the base of my suggestion is, what about having a big scaled mission consisting of 6 (or maybe 8) players, possibly as a tower 5 or 6 mission design? I've thought of having this big mission include of different sections, basically combining modes: sabotage, defense, survival, intercept, etc. -- whichever combination, or maybe even a new one included. With some tweaking that makes teamwork a must. Just an example, at first you would need to get to an artifact but the person will have debuffs and not be able to do anything except walk towards delivery point, so your team would have to cover you all the way. And then once at the target point you would have to defend/survive for a set time and this chains into some other mission. This is all an example mind you, but another part of this may include splitting the team so that they would need to perform different objectives, and if one fails, it branches off into a different situation. Another part of this is that the team can only include one type of frame per session, no duplicates. Of course, this is all based on how the whole thing could be tweaked to provide difficulty and cohesiveness. So yea...thoughts? Also, DE has mentioned in one of the devstreams that they are actually interested in having missions that transition between archwing and land combat or something like that. Edited December 13, 2014 by AoiiToori Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebastianx Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 Agreed BUT lvl 100 enemies that have a very high CC reduction, like 90%, or even better, put new units in, bigger, stronger and CC immune to make every enemy encountered a challenge up to the queens...yet still, they are queens, I expect some finesse going on in the final battle, I mean, they're not some ULTIMATE LORDS OF DARKNESS AND DESTRUCTION. No. The fight needs to be something more unique...as direct as it is indirect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)i_illusion Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 I don't want Raid gear. (Here's the Strongest Boss in the game, but oh here have the Strongest weapon in the game now with nothing to use it on.) I want extremely detailed and amazing looking Warframe cosmetics out of this. I want to be able to wear a damm Crown on my Warframe's head, and have a awesome skin/syndana to go with it. Don't give me a stronger weapon/mod unless your giving me another Raid or some sort of end game to use it on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROSING Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 I'd say not so much level 100 guys, but similar to T4 people with moderate health but high damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schoolgirls Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 Thought I was reading about a raid in WoW for a second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-..- Posted December 13, 2014 Author Share Posted December 13, 2014 I'd say not so much level 100 guys, but similar to T4 people with moderate health but high damage. It's too often that people bring gear into T4 to level it. With raids, people should have to bring all their gear fully forma'd and maxed out mods. They're not balancing for the casuals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AoiiToori Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 (edited) Although, I don't want this to be exclusively end-game, I wanna see it more as an expansion of content. I doubt DE would want to exclude any portion of their players and IMO end game gear introduces elitist ideals. Edited December 13, 2014 by AoiiToori Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shafilp Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 Well that good but that 10 player with peer to peer system i guess host will fk up like DS (8 ppl and lag like hell) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatpig84 Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 Shooting a mob for 2 hours can be quite..... Ah never mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omnimorph Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 DE has a chance to do here what is rarely done with a "raid" type of game - design it so it changes up frequently, so a general guide can't be written about it. The problem with raids is that they become known quantities, and when they become known quantities, DPS inevitably becomes king as people speed run them. Because there's a fair amount of procedural generation in this game already, DE here has a chance to do something different, and to have a blend of things that are known quantities and things that change up in surprising ways, so no group can afford to relax and go through the motions relying purely on DPS numbers and a bit of timing; and also, no group can afford to be unbalanced, because they have to be ready for anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FATEdPondera Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 The more I read of that, the more I said to myself "This sounds like World of Warcraft", but, during the hay-days of Burning Crusade, and Rise of the Lich King, WoW was the top of its game, and those raids and fights were AMAZINGLY fun. Who is to say that we cannot take what worked from WoW's now bloated rotting carcass and use them to make a game which has an engine that can facilitate a much broader range of moment better? You can't wall run and flip jump in WoW, and there is constant whispers of parkour improvements and movement 2.0 being worked on. Only whispers though.... Honestly, ALL of the major event bosses should get this kind of treatment. Mutalist Alad V was incredibly disappointing, but, given how hard (impossible) it is to permenantly kill off a boss character, who is to say he did not survive our assassination attempt? Who is to say he can't merge with Lephantis to create a bio-armor infested MECH we have to work together to take down? The Twin Queens will be the first, but they shouldn't be the last raid boss. Fighting an improved and empowered Vor in the void, Archwing combat against a Balor Fomorian Battleship, Corpus war-mechs, rogue Orokin abominations, the list goes on and on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AoiiToori Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 The more I read of that, the more I said to myself "This sounds like World of Warcraft", but, during the hay-days of Burning Crusade, and Rise of the Lich King, WoW was the top of its game, and those raids and fights were AMAZINGLY fun. Who is to say that we cannot take what worked from WoW's now bloated rotting carcass and use them to make a game which has an engine that can facilitate a much broader range of moment better? You can't wall run and flip jump in WoW, and there is constant whispers of parkour improvements and movement 2.0 being worked on. Only whispers though.... Honestly, ALL of the major event bosses should get this kind of treatment. Mutalist Alad V was incredibly disappointing, but, given how hard (impossible) it is to permenantly kill off a boss character, who is to say he did not survive our assassination attempt? Who is to say he can't merge with Lephantis to create a bio-armor infested MECH we have to work together to take down? The Twin Queens will be the first, but they shouldn't be the last raid boss. Fighting an improved and empowered Vor in the void, Archwing combat against a Balor Fomorian Battleship, Corpus war-mechs, rogue Orokin abominations, the list goes on and on. Merging with Lephantis? O_O *heavy breathing* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArkNeither Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 enrage timers.... feels like WoW... and I guess only Boltor Prime, Dread, and Paris Prime are viable then to kill them in time. specific tactics and positioning?... sounds like it could be repetitive and tedious like Sargus Ruk, or Vay Hek, and create more divide between the balance and viability of different Warframes... this desire for a boss fight that demands only elite players sounds like a boss fight that will lead to a community hostile to 80% if not more of it's population.... gonna have player hosts looking for only the best players, and since skill cannot be qualitatively advertised, we're gonna have hosts demanding only Mastery Rank 14+ when really that MR7 guy can be just as smart. I don't think this boss battle needs any super special attention like mmo-raid-esque features... I might as well just hang in the back, highlight-left click the Twins and start pressing 7891231231234123123 for all my hot bar spells. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-InV-igo95862 Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 (edited) -Large group: A full 10 man minimum raid group. It will lag badly. P2P does not work well with large amount of players. Edited December 13, 2014 by igo95862 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlutAdler Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 I take extreme issue to all of these players linking ANYTHING that has to do with bosses/raids lasting longer than 2 minutes to WOW. WOW isnt the end all be all kids! Sorry to break your world. There are HUNDREDS of games with bosses that inspire unique mechanics and lengthy fights. NOT EVERYTHING HAS TO DO WITH WOW *breaths heavily* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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