SneakyErvin

And your math is still the same as before, since you still hit the same amount of enemies with dark verse, you just happen to detonate it earlier aswell.

And? You just proved that LoS works perfectly fine.

It is subjective though, so it doesnt apply to P2W. There must be some objective win and it must be over another player. Same as with dog days, it isnt against other players, just NPCs, P2W describes games that involves competative mechanics and rely on what would otherwise be pay-for-conveniance or pay-to-skip etc. All of those terms were used in non-competative games, then out pops the asia market MMO setups where P2W becomes the thing due to exclusivity and competition meeting behind a paywall. The term simply doesnt refer to NPCs and quest/mission win conditions.

Exactly, aswell as beating people up with a dead kaithe and not the otherway around.

3 presses yes, over and over, but he also hit everything on the map with that third press. There is time to actually kill things with a Saryn around, but Dante was like an accumulated Enox, where he popped the baloons instantly. But I also do think Saryn needs some form of nerf overall. With stretch and augur reach, Dante covered a whole defense map from edge to edge pretty much. And it isnt just that he wipes things on lower maps, he is overall a better frames than Saryn since he has instant access to scaling damage, which ignores armor and can be built somewhat reliably to ignore shields aswell (as if he would need it with the damage he deals). The main issue is that people talk as if he went from this monster DPS into Calibum. He is still a monster DPS and still one of the best frames in the game in practically every aspect with defensive and offensive buffs to provide for his team and himself. The only thing he doesnt really have is a way to defend objectives. And it is due to those low missions it was nerfed since it was according to DE disruptive going by what they've said earlier in connection to Wukong and AoE changes. Yes I agree it is trivial damage outside lowbie missions and I wouldnt mind if it was removed together with LoS because it would keep him just as strong as he is for SP and beyond, while letting people skip around and prime things. I mean, there is little reason for him to nuke whole lowbie maps, since the missions will be cleared fast anyways with more people getting to do thing and with less risk you get a numbnut scribe that kills reactant flow in low fissures aswell. It is also better if that damage portion is removed since it will learn players how to play him higher up as they progress. There are different states of what they can consider happy with his damage. The damage is intact, the way to deal the damage changed, since it was likely considered disruptive. It had little impact where it matters (SP and above), so it wasnt a nerf to the damage itself. And how is he nerfed in enclosed spaces? He always needed LoS due to Dark Verse. He is only changed in low content where others help you keep up the overall speed anyways. In those places you can instead you run around and Dark Verse things to death, yeah sure you wont clear the whole map per cast, but others will also have something little to do. A basline 30m 50 degree cone with slash damage should be... uhm sufficient to do low content quickly.

And I think that applies to several things regarding Dante and the nerfs. I am constantly wondering if people are actually playing him when they spew forth some of the things they do, since some of it is outlandish to say the least. Which is why I supported the change suggested earlier, since it is sensible in all reasoning and also honest regarding the state of LoS atm. I'm fairly sure that if they remove LoS on Tragedy, the next step will be people screaming and demanding that the LoS on Dark Verse should be "reverted" even though it always was intended to be a LoS skill. Because that is the mentality of most of the current "muh Danti!" crowd. Regarding Saryn. As I implied to the other fellow about sunder. Just because something already exsists it doesnt mean they need to leave the flood gates open. I'd much rather see LoS added to Saryn if they can get LoS to work, since it would be healthier for the whole game. They can even compensate it by doing something about her total decay or reapplication decay cost. However, I also think they should be careful about the LoS implementations and apply it on a skill-to-skill basis. Skills that can reach a whole map certainly needs it, but not in all cases, since some have other mechanical interactions that stop what they can or cannot hit. Like Lavos 4, which reaches far far far, but only hit things around the actual physical part of the skill, meaning it balances itself out the further it reaches, since the gap between those physical parts of the skill ends up wide in the end. Miasma is also a skill that wouldnt fit with a LoS, since it is an airborne virus. There are many things they can do with the skills to balance them better to allow no-Los or require LoS. +200% ish strength, +30% efficiency, enough +duration for 90sec buffs, +35% cast speed, Nourish instead of book, Energy Nexus, +45% range. Book modded for pure heat and crit and as much status as possible. Weapons: Torid, Grimoire (energy utility on demand) and Dual Ichor. Pet: Smeeta currently since I have 40+ days more of 2x loot boosts active, otherwise it will end up being either Panzer, Robo-dog or Adarza. Focus: Naramon so I can build combo overtime and never have it drop to much for when I need to hit something. Weapon most used is Grimoire in order to make Book start attacking and for buffing up Xata. How is it costing you more if you didnt kill things earlier and had to redo the rotation? Anything beyond 3+3 before doing 4 is a waste. So playing him in a "Kullervo", "Dagath" or "Protea" style was already more beneficial than trying to pull off some 360 killing. He was far ahead of Saryn.

I pictured something completely different there!

I just wanna clarify a thing regarding P2W. While it isnt needed for a game to have PvP, the game needs to have competative aspects in the regular gameplay or be heavily driven by leaderboard rewards etc. In WF that doesnt apply. We dont have competative PvE setups, which is something similar to what WoW has, where you can practically drive someone away from farming areas by outkilling them. So if WF had that and sold more powerful items, then it could be considered P2W. However, in WF, if one player in a squad has payed real cash for a shortcut to a powerful item, everyone in the squad benefit from it, since things die faster and provide more loot during the session for everyone involved. I mean, Fortuna describes it perfectly why WF can never be P2W "We all lift together", which cant be more accurate with how the game is set up. Also. single player games can never be P2W, since P2W is a term that is rooted in player to player interaction in a competative light. Single player games have no other players, if they do they are no longer single player, then they are multiplayer. The term is never about a player "winning" over the NPC. It is a term originally spawned purely from PvP, but has then been applied to other forms of competative setups where direct player vs player interaction isnt a thing but leaderboards or similar are, where the best player is rewarded, which can then be influenced by paying cash for items to make it easier to climb those boards. Also, it needs to be significant and objective advantages. In WF the things some see as P2W are not objective since they are effectively also pay to lose for others. Like how some see even a frame access as a P2W method, when another player sees it as losing since the content is no longer relevant to play after that point. But most importantly, whatever anyone spends cash on in WF that brings power, it benefits us all when we play together and lift together.

Ouch my condolences. And could I advice you to seek out a shrink, since self destructive behavior is often not seen as healthy. 👀

"The few". No you wipe out a whole bunch of enemies. Have people even tried him after the nerfs? I'm beginning to doubt it. He has no problem pulling of 2 kills per second in SP by just using skills and the occasional melee/range attack to make floaty book attack. And that is respectable kps. And pulling decent numbers? So you mean a skill dealing 25 million of mostly cinematic damage isnt decent? Yeah those extra innate 6500 damage sure makes a difference out of those 25mil, considering how they'd end up adding something like 65 damage on a CHG in SP, or with my strength a bit over 200 damage. The only difference is you cant effectively spread his damage, because you cant hit behind you, which was counter productive anyways in higher content. And his disruptive approach in low content is no longer possible. Which is inline with former DE changes to the game when it comes to AoE. He's still as strong as before after the nerf outside of star chart. DE stated long ago that when they run into a disruptive playstyle it will get nerfed, Tragedy pre-nerf would fall under that style. And when DE nerfs things that deal damage in a 12m radius, it isnt a shocker they nerf something that deals damage in a 52 meter radius and wipes out low level content without any actual prep. Yes he took 3 steps to pull it off, but it was in the end still 3 fast casts totaling 100 cost, like most 4 skills do as baseline. Also. You are free to curse my mother if you like, she wont care since she's just ashes under a turf of grass. I dont see his idea as a nerf. I see it as a sensible fix to a problem regarding disruptive gameplay incase they cant fix LoS fully. I mean, it really shouldnt effect anyone that actually plays him as intended by priming and detonating, and it will do nothing in high level content. It would only effect those that didnt actually prime and only used dark verse in order to be allowed to cast Final Verse in low levels. And those people I'm refering to would deserve a nerf out of spite since they are so obnoxious towards the devs. I have nothing against people giving criticism, but most of these people arent doing that, they are just volatile and disrespectful. And if this was about defending the company no matter what, then I wouldnt agree with the idea posted would I? Nor would I criticize other parts that went live in Dante Unbound either, like RNG loadouts, those #*!%ing bunny ears and so on? But sure, write it of as whiteknighting or whatever you want if it makes you feel better, I dont really give a squat. One of the funnier excuses here is from the people that claimed they ran around and "primed the whole map" in order to use tragedy to wipe it. Those guys must have some serious access to frame based status duration, since it takes a whole lot of #*!%ing time to too around with a 50 degree primer to prime 360 degrees of the map, especially when the primer they claim to use abides by LoS by design and has a far lower effective range aswell.

No idea what that has to do with Mr. Tophat. 🤷‍♂️ No lol, that "problem" has exsisted for ages. Nullifiers, Eidolons, Arbitrations etc. And guess what, it isnt a problem! But uhm they can, as the list provided shows, which also includes Baruuk that can apply some serious CC. And what is more tanky, being completely immune (Zephyr/Rev/Nyx), untargetable (Loki) or actually taking damage (Kullervo)? My point is, the roster is very mixed since not clear cut lines exsist between which "role" applies to which frame. Which means there are no CC frames either, so no problem that a skill in a kit is locked out, since they still have access to some of their kit. Not unlike nullifiers that lock out CC and damage while leaving buffs. Different enemies apply different penalties. Adding ability immunity to OG would really just make them nulifiers without nullification on contact. "less AOE" when you mention uhm... Laetum. You are aware that all of those guns mentioned hit alot more than Laetum does right? Laetum is a 2m explosion. Even Burston hits more than Laetum does and can punch through without killing explosions aswell. And what does those weapons have to do with why you want Eximus to be immune to damage? With those weapons you likely wont notice an eximus in a group, since it will just evaporate from a chained beam, a splash or a ricochette, or a ricochette of a ricochette. Exactly, it is a matter of playstyle. Gun platforms, melee, support, DD, tank and so on. But what would be the point aside from restricing one playstyle approach to dealing damage versus another? Some people simply enjoy playing the caster and not having to use weapons at all times. You might say "it is the same for CC then", but it isnt, since you still need to use guns or abilties to kill what you CC, so whatever playstyle approach you picked for dealing damage is still intact while enemies are immune to CC. They remove the target from play no matter how much health the target has. So the target is effectively one shot since it no longer poses a threat. It really doesnt matter that damage does it to most enemies aswell, since CC scales infinitely without any actual investment or progress needed. Investments only alter how often you need to reapply that CC until the target is dead. There is a reason why games like WoW changed how CC works, since it was also in WF situation during vanilla, where you could CC enemies infinitely, but they added damage breaks and diminishing return to fix it. No more constant fear or stun locks or abuse of polymorph etc. And CC isnt slower, it is instant and guaranteed. The only difference is you need to manually kill the target afterwards, but the threat from it is removed. The slowdown in the whole scenario is that extra 0.5 seconds or so you spend on casting the CC before starting to dps. You trade that 0.5 seconds for total safety.

That just mean the frame does need that upfront damage, since in higher content that damage doesnt matter anyways. So removing the part they see as disrupted if of no issue, since the content where it does anything is so trivial anyway that it doesnt matter if the damage is there or not. Reducing range is the worst method, since it also impact the kit when played fully, since it would also reduce the range on actually primed targets. I mean, if you reduce it by 50%, you end up with it reaching 5 meters shorter than Dark Verse as baseline. If you add the penatly as an additive on modded range, it practically does nothing, since it still reaches over 40m at that point with the same modding, which is most of if not the whole map where low level champs live. I mean, DE found AoE weapons to be disruptive because they were used against everything, yet they only hit an area of 12-ish meters. So it isnt odd that DE sees Tragedy as disruptive while dealing the damage it does and covers such a large area aswell with rather small range investments. 52 meter without giving up any strength, and at a 50% reduction it would still be 40m without giving up any strength. I'm talking about how it worked pre-nerf and the reason for why it was nerfed. Hence the key words like "could" and "was" were used. I know you guys are fuming, but atleast read what is written.

I dont notice a differece on CC frames either. Since I'm still required to kill to get anywhere, meaning whatever eximus do pop die instantly to whatever weapons or abilities the CC frame also uses. And I dont play Lamebo and wouldnt touch him with a stick most likey, or pee on him if he was on fire. But they all deal their damage in different ways that just wouldnt work with a simple "immune to abilities" thing, since several frames are based on buffs that sit on them, not the enemy. Kullervo for instance teleports and recieves an absurd amount of crit chance, mine currently sits at 700% or something with BR active aswell. And how would those frames be handled? And Saryn not giving a poop about Eximus? You must sit at very low levels, since not even with a build somewhat invested in strength to total strip things with shards does her abilities deal well with OG. I also fail to see how Octavia would get more engaging, she has stealth, when does she ever bother to prioritize? Whatever dies dies when it dies. Same as I dont see the problem with Garuda for instance. So she can kill an eximus with her ball... great... time to uhm recharge it again before killing the next. There is a reason it is so easy to replace her #1 with a helminth, since it is in reality just a fancy Aoe gun in the shape of a blood globe. You should probably have an idea for how buffs and debuffs would be stopped by OG. Since they are far more beneficial than direct damage abilities and should likely get the first OG-based nerf if you are to push a nerf. How would Wrathful, Roar or Vex be treated? Except then we have frames with self buffs that increase their eHP or turn them invisible or invincible, meaning they can skip the impact of an eximus. Like I mentioned OG frames and Rev, immune to leech effects and can face tank shockwaves etc. How does that then turn out equal kit vs kit, Banshee vs Rev etc? And there will always be something that works while something else "just can't work". Where will it end? CC is blocked by design, great. Now you want DD skills blocked, ok. Then buffs/debuffs that are offensive and help deal with OG, ok. And then you are still left with everything else that makes certain types of frames stand out and have an easier time versus OG by being able to take more damage, avoid damage completely or something similar. Nyx pets, revenant Thralls, Loki decoy, mesmer skin, OG/Halo, Volts shield, shield drones, DR skills, access to shield gate/replenishment, elemental ward, vex armor, gloom leech, invisibility and so on, all rooted in skills. Should also all of that get a special OG treatment through some wierd mechanics? And then we end up with frames of different states of innate tanking potential to make it really even and equally impactful when facing eximus. You will just never reach a point where it is true. No I just brought up several frames that have CC that are tanky or are simply designed for something else while just having CC in their kit to show that your claim regarding CC frames being squishy isnt true. Yes some CC frames are squishy, but so are some buffers and dpsers. And now you are claiming most dps frames are so tanky. Like with most of the roster, it isnt either or, we have very few pure frames. Like I said before, we really only have a single actual CC frame and that is Limbo, most everyone else is a split between tanking, dps, supprt, CC and whatever else. Rhino = Tank, buffer, CC and debuffer with his roar augment. Frost = Tank, defender, CC, debuffer and buffer with augment(s). Kullervo = Tank and dps. Sorry but I cant but lol at this, "(outside of Laetum and glaive) are used in moderation due to scare ammo economy". Because clearly Dual Toxocyst, Torid, Strun, Latron, Tonkor, Nukor, Cycron and several other AoE guns with silly great ammo economy doesnt exsists right? Not to mention the introduction of melee influence and extremely fast stances that just wipes everything within a 20m radius over and over and over, including annihilating guardian eximus units without any requirement whatsoever to aim. And in content high enough to maybe see a reason why someone uses CC in the first place, guns like Bramma, Zarr and Probo Cernos have infinite ammo, since they kill that many mobs per shot that there will always be ammo to pick. Also I've already answered you why I'm against the idea. It wasnt the intended design. But also because weapons already do what DD skills do but better versus eximus, or atleast equally good. One of the thing you fail to realize is that CC was practically a guaranteed 1-shot, hence why it got treated this way by OG. DD abilities are not guaranteed 1-shots in the same way, neither are weapons. CC effectively guarantees something gets removed from play, no matter how poorly you are actually built aslong as you can hit the target with the effect. We dont have miss rating or resistance chance in WF like other games in order to curb the power of CC. Exactly! Add a massive reduction instead of a flat immunity to CC, then stack diminishing return ontop of that. So first cast might last 3 seconds, then second cast 2, third 1 and then nothing. Or something like the moment OG takes damage any CC effect on the target will get reduced to 3 seconds and if reapplied it will suffer diminishing return that treats it as if the 3 second duration is the max duration, so second CC applied would only last 2 seconds etc.

And they were acting as if they cared about others "oh but DE, go ahead and remove the evil OG for others, just let us keep everything in return", seemingly implying Dante was the only OG provider while still complaining and comparing OG with other frames. Which also would have led to OG not getting the upcoming QoL changes, which improves the whole system and massively buffs a few frames aswell. And the constant complaints about LoS and wanting to have it removed, practically ignoring that it will benefit other frames aswell when it gets fully polished. Agreed on the LoS thing, they need to fix it so it works well for everyone equally, since it sucks for those that currently face the bugs. It's a legit question, since it seems like the people worried about the 360 degree no-LoS Tragedy dont understand that they effectively deal half the damage by doing so, and the innate damage of the skill is laughable at high levels on its own since it just regular slash damage and not cinematic like the consumed damage part of the skill. So controlling the map and basing your killing around the rules of Dark Verse i.e frontal 50 degree cone results in most consistant damage, leaving no heavy units alive on Final Verse cast, since the enemies will have atleast 4 slash instance on them along with whatever statuses applied by your hooters and floaty book.

Nerf? Huh? Just because something exsists doesnt mean it needs to continue onward. You dont find a 6500 baseline damage ability that can cover over 50+ meters on level with or beyond what we have otherwise for low levels? He could practically stand in a location blind spam 3 and then follow it up with 4 to cover a whole map. No one really cares that tits can swoosh around at lightning speeds and sunder, it is only beneficial on missions like exterminate. On survival, defense, interception etc. Tragedy was miles ahead of sunder. With the same range modding sunder reaches 21 meters while tragedy reaches 52 meters. Why pick the option that requires you to move when you can instead just stand there and reach everything that spawns and deal several times more damage per cast/energy?

You kinda do when the purpose was to block CC specifically. You want to punish other things due to the immunity towards CC. That is what they are to nearly all frames, because no frame (or well close to no frame, Kullervo, Rev and Dante likely dont care) wants to leave them on the field since they can drain energy, make other enemies near immortal versus AoE etc. You also keep saying "dps nukers" like you say "CC frames" but have given no actual examples of frames that this applies to. You also seem fine with buff and debuff frames having an upper hand versus eximus. So there is no consistancy in your argument. What makes "dps nukers" stand out in comparison to a buffer or debuffer? Most "dps nukers" deal terrible damage overall to eximus with their skills, buffers and debuffers dont. So do you honestly find it sensible to block all direct damage abilities simply because we might have barely a handful of frames that deal enough damage with theirs to handle OG? While also leaving all self buffs and debuffs intact that practically have the best benefits already since they improve the thing most useful for handling OG/eximus, namely weapons. Just look at Rhino vs Saryn. Rhino easily doubles his damage versus OG by having mearly +100% strength, Saryn barely deals any damage to OG with spores and miasma, she cant even improve her damage to OG because it is immune to viral. Or we can just take Kullervo that has no actual direct damage skill to effectively handle things quickly, he does have a massive debuff and buff instead that results in the same outcome. Same deal with Chroma and Mirage, huge damage increases, or a Volt shield for that matter. But for some reason your gripe is with damage dealing abilities? I mean really, what is the difference between me tapping #1 on Kullervo to instagib an Eximus, shoot in it's general direction as a buffed Rhino, Chroma or Mirage, or sending a spearhead of horsies towards it with Dagath, whipping it with Khora, going brrr with Mesa or summoning some turrets with Protea that hopefully shoots at it? Why are you so focused on the last 4 examples and not the others?

Just want to add. Influential Dual Ichor modded for viral+electric while mixing Gas through the augment is also ape crazy on him. Area denial and killing floors of self sustaining doom everywhere. Kinda reminds me of making death corridor setups in Fortnite Save The World or 7DtD. It also reminds me of the first verse of Angel of Death by Slayer. It would also make for a great movie title. Everyone hits everyone with everything killing everyone all at once. Grandfather Nurgle bless us and keep us filthy and unclean!

Yup, you and me are in the same boat regarding why the LoS was added. I'm 99.99% sure that is DEs reasoning regarding it, and I dont think many people realize how crazy it is for a skill to deal 6500 damage baseline when you are on the star chart. And I really think most of the really vocal and obnoxious screaming is due to that no longer being possible. I'm fairly sure those same people would blow a couple of additional fuses if your idea was added aswell, which just makes me want to see your idea implemented all the more!

It would be better those people learn the frame instead. "Stronger" isnt true, a higher cap, yeah, stronger, no, not by far. But as with most things people are blind to big numbers while not seeing everything else around it. There are just too many benefits to Dante OG over the other frames. Final Verse Tragedy will have no innate damage, it will only deal damage based on status stack. Currently Final Verse Tragedy deals 6500(!) slash damage without the need for any statuses at all on the target. Thats likely the reason DE added the LoS to Tragedy to reduce disruptive low level gameplay and also why most people are crying. Many people have been unaware that Dark Verse already required LoS and are likely unaware that Tragedy deals upfront damage aswell, while also playing mostly low content. Which is why they see a big change with the LoS added, because they can no longer nuke unprimed maps in the content they play. Dark Verse will still rely on LoS as intended at release and deal the 2x direct slash damage instances and apply the statuses.

But that isnt the intent of their design to start with. The goal was to limit CC, that is it. Clearly objective successful. We dont have enough of pure CC frames, much of this also applies to damage frames. But we constantly get mobs that are immune to something. Or should we remove the option to self buff versus Eidolons? Or versus Eximus even, since obviously self buffers suffer less than anyone else because their weapons hit harder versus OG. And no, not killing with guns. Kill with melee, since some guns had CC removed versus OG, and it must be equal among all guns by your own logic. Cant have poor Probocesis Cernos cryin in the corner alone. That wouldnt be fair. No it really doesnt. Nuke frames struggle just as much since most skills dont actually kill effective enough for those waves. Saryn for instance tickles OG, because she has zero access to proper Spore stacks, which is her damaging ability, which drains fully between waves. And with the layout, frames like Protea wont have much effect in her turrets either since they hit few targets per attack so stack slowly throughout their duration. We dont have that many nuke frame in reality that are 1-hit-wonders in SP and beyond, most deal quite terrible damage to eximus at those levels. Look at Volt for instance, he goes from a low level nuke to having his nuke become a sustain ability in high content, since it practically deals no damage anymore. Banshee is a quake queen low down and turn into the bouncy castle manager at "higher" levels. And the number of abilities matter how? You claimed Banshee was a CC when she has a brief stun tied to one of her skills and she can knock back some with her #1. Then she has an AoE dps skill along with 2 massive debuffs. Yeah, Rhino, Nezha, Inaros, Baruuk, Citrine, Gara, Frost, Hydroid, Khora, Yareli and Zephyr sure are squishy... Oh wait, no they arent! To the bolded part. Exactly, so why are you upset over parts of a kit being locked out versus an eximus? The rest of the kit along with your weapons is there to annihilate them. I'm also wondering what crazy content you play where you ever go "damn I wish I could CC this eximus" or even give a thought to the exsistance of eximus in the first place. The reason I'm against it is because it wasnt the intent of OG. The intent was to counter CC, that is it. But they arent more dangerous. You practically just get several enemies in one body, which simply increases their uptime. Their damage is still the same as one single enemy, unless you get close enough so their abilities can hurt you, which I'm not sure why you would on a squishy frame. And for Banshee they dont have abilities in the first place. So if you dont rely on CC to kill everything else an eximus shouldnt really be an issue since it is just one mob shooting at you. If you heavily rely on CC for everything else, then yeah I can see the point due to the higher uptime of an eximus firing at you without you being able to control it. But you also just need to remove the OG before being able to apply your CC in such an extreme case.

It's simply how I am. I'm not stuck in a specific box regarding something. If I defend something it is because I personally find it appealing and good, if I'm critical towards something it's because it doesnt appeal to me or is good. Same deal in real life, hence why I'm extreme right, extreme left and dead center moderate and anywhere in between when it comes to politics. Everything for me is always about the subject at hand, not what color or in this case company/game it comes from. If I were to go by the opinions of others I would go by the label "liberal nazi-communist-facist moderate anti-christian satanist-hating anti-gay-pro-gay multicultural-love-hating mother#*!%er". All in all I'm grey, the matter matters, nothing else.

I just dont see a reason to revert the OG. He has constant regen that makes him (and allies) 100% invincible, no other OG has that, he also doesnt require to hit anything to buff it manually, everyone else does. The cap isnt all that matters. They could in reality reduce it to whatever and he would still turn himself and allies immortal for whatever the duration of the buff is in your build. Removing LoS until it works for everyone might look like a good idea, but then they wouldnt really know when it is fixed for players, since it is currently based on individual settings that differ for several players. In house testing doesnt go as far as having it in a live environment among the public. I currently have had no problems, if I had I would notice since I'm currently fuming about a few other bugs that made it live with Dante, like odd melee interactions, auto-run turning of for some reason during certain combat interactions and so on. I might maybe be bugged the otherway, since I've had tragedy cases where I've gone "huh, how did I hit that?" at time, where the thing his has been completely covered as far as I could see. Like full pillars blocking a few enemies that still go kaplopp. The reason for the LoS on Tragedy was because it was in DEs eyes disruptive. Are most people not aware that it requires no priming in order to deal "massive" damage in low content? Yes sure you need to cast 2 dark verse before it, but you can just waste them into empty air. My tragedy atm deals uhm something like 20000 damage straight up, which there is nothing on the star chart that can really survive. And without the LoS it hit everything that was over 50m away. So it what was 3+3 on anything or nothing then 4 for a map wipe. Those are also likely the most vocal crowd atm, lowbie champions destroying maps per cast. I played Dante full on SP before the nerf and full on SP after, and there is really no difference. Why people even feel a need to hit things behind them is uhm hard to grasp. Why let enemies spread in that way so you need to split up your actual heavy damage for half the potential damage in two directions? I rather 334 and then turn to 334 instead of 3turn34, since if there is something heavy that needs 4 stacks it will still require you two full 3turn34 combos no matter what. Or just position myself so I dont have enemies in the rear, like when playing kullervo, dagath, protea, garuda and others. edit: Gaxxian had a great idea though. Remove LoS and remove the initial damage, that way no more disruptive lowbie nuking and people can split their damage if they like. Win-win.

Yeah that has been my opinion since forever now aswell. It would have been a fix that also made sense considering how his skills sync by providing shields and on kill and so on. Also, while I'm not against the changes to Dante, no matter if it is the LoS or OG nerf etc. I read your suggestion post and the changes you mention there for Tragedy sound sensible (great infact), since it would remove the lowbie nuking because you remove the initial damage and place everything on the DoT consumption. I think it is a bloody great idea. Though I do not mind the current LoS, since it will benefit other things aswell down the line and I've still not ran into issues with it. Done more regular content and today used Mr. D for elite deep and cells without issues. However if DE doesnt manage to make LoS work for everyone, I think they should go with your idea and remove the initial damage and LoS requirement.

Seeing as how OG will get some needed QoL for setups that require you to take damage could you possibly also look at Mesmer Skin now that the augment exsists that forces it on team mates? And could Hunter Adrenaline and Rage possibly be reworked to simply be x% of damage taken is converted to energy? That way it would work on overguard, shields and health all the same, meaning frames with shields can make use of it even if having forced OG applied to them. The need to have shields removed before benefitting from it doesnt solve the forced OG issue for frames with shields.

It applies when you use melee no matter if Pack Leader (Primed) is equipped or not. With Primed Pack Leader it simply replaces say 40k OG with 2200 OG, if you dont have a Pack Leader mod equipped melee attacks simply remove whatever OG your pet has.