Elite Onslaught is Pointless Boredom Because of Saryn

[(PSN)johnsoigne]

7 minutes ago, Sesaline said:

4 forma can be extremely beneficial to any frame or weapon. What is your point?

I'm not going to point at other frames and say that they are more OP than Saryn because this blame and shame mentality is unhealthy. Saryn has weaknesses. It's not her fault that the game doesn't reward players for staying in missions long enough to see some semblance of a challenge. Who needs to cooperate when you can just extract at 20 and then queue back in from wave 1?

Yes, she is good at killing. That's it. She's great at thinning out the hordes and weakening them for the whole team. A mobile, active playstyle is rewarded when playing Saryn. If it's wave 10 and you think Saryn is OP wellll idk what to tell you. She has range and just like any other ranged frame she will get first dibs on low level enemies if she is built for it and wants to play that way. Later on her damage falls off. There's plenty of wiggle room for the team to do stuff at that point. How would you go about balancing an aoe frame in a way that is suitable for quick runs and true end game content? I think that DE has her in a good spot right now. She's just as capable as any other aoe nuke frame against trash mobs but then she scales just enough to be relevant against tough enemies if she can stay alive. 

This game is not balanced around 4 hour survival. Stop that jajaja yayaya she’s not good in 6 hours survival kakaka lalala I didn’t actually do that but LifeofRio said that I heard on his stream lol lol lol tatata 

What are you talking about? She is still f’ing god in 2 hours survival !! And even if you disagree it’s not about that. It becomes more about tactics, strategies skills, cheese knowledges than how strong a frame is by then when you get into that much long runs. People can stay 4 hours endurance runs with their Nosam cutter.. 

[------Solo------]

15 minutes ago, (PS4)johnsoigne said:

more spores mean more stacks.. more stacks

The damage growth, those stacks you say got capped, it caps at 10 enemies, now the damage ramps up only from 10 enemies affected and not the total amount the UI says. 

Also before the rework, she was still press 1 button frame, and she definitely excelled in ESO even pre-rework but nobody complained as much as they do now. 

And not only ESO. 

Edited August 19, 2018 by PrimeDCookieMonstah

[(PSN)johnsoigne]

10 minutes ago, Sesaline said:

Yes I know all of that. If the ability has a 6 second sickness duration then uh yes, you want to refresh that bad boy to upkeep the 200% spore damage and insta spread right? So how is that spamming? Simaris will cut you off if you try to use an ability too quickly in succession. That doesn't mean that Saryn's 4th ability wasn't meant to be used often. It's just DE trying to limit caster frames from bulletjumping immediately after a cast to another area so they can cast it again on new enemies. Again, these frames fall off eventually and can't withstand damage without cover or support. In ESO enemies are appearing everywhere at random so it can be hard to catch a breather for squishy, skill-dependent frames.

 

More like I just taught you that lol. Let’s be honest. Nobody would have wrote that first post if you knew all that. No.

Edited August 19, 2018 by (PS4)johnsoigne

[Sesaline]

Just now, (PS4)johnsoigne said:

This game is not balanced around 4 hour survival. Stop that jajaja yayaya she’s not good in 6 hours survival kakaka lalala I didn’t actually do that but LifeofRio said that I heard on his stream lol lol lol tatata 

What are you talking about? She is still f’ing god in 2 hours survival !! And even if you disagree it’s not about that. It becomes more about tactics, strategies skills, cheese knowledges than how strong a frame is by then when you get into that much long runs. People can stay 4 hours endurance runs with their Nosam cutter.. 

BRRRRRT

Well by that logic then any frame can cheese the game forever. except maybe uhhh... nope. Any frame with enough knowledge of the maps and spawn that have appropriately modded gear can cheese the mission forever. Speaking of LifeOfRio.... if you watch his videos you can see just how many frames are end game viable if you know enough. There's no special snowflake syndrome for Saryns in that regard. Thank you for proving my piggity-point for me, dawg. If the game rewarded staying in the mission longer then people wouldn't be complaining as much because the content is actually somewhat challenging.

brrrt 

[Sesaline]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)johnsoigne said:

More like I just taught you that lol. Let’s be honest. Nobody would have wrote that first post if you knew all that.

You are some kind of special, johnsoigne. some kind of special.

[Yatazanami]

this is why we can't have nice things 😞 , i mean what the hell do you get out of nerfing her ? curing your ''i am not squad best'' insecurity ?!

[Cloud]

5 hours ago, Zyneris said:

Agreed, my Ash P doesn't have the same duration with max mods. Not fair, pliss nerf. Ty.

To OP: Why does it matter who has the most damage? I mean, truly. Are you dying? Are you failing missions? i'm going to assume the answer is no. Don't worry about the meters and worry about your play. How are YOU performing in those situations? Get your rewards and move on to the next. Cheers!

I love your attempt to shift what OP said from "being a spectator" to "have most damage". 

As I'm sure you've understood from OP pov, he can't stand being not able to even kill enemies, since they die so fast in a mission where they spawn in huge numbers and killing them is the only purpose of the mission itself. Sounds strange but certain people, you know... have fun actually playing the game instead of standing still watching enemies die for 5+ mins.

You instead as a sly fox want do deflect his point in "having most damage" which sounds pretentious and childish when clearly is not the case.

Unfortunately many of you do this because in your mind you know that Saryn is ridiculously broken, but you love to wallow in her powercreep.

And since most of the arguments anti-Saryn sound pretty logic and right, your only chance to defend her is twisting and shifting the argument. Sorry it does not work for all of us.

[------Solo------]

13 minutes ago, Yatazanami said:

curing your ''i am not squad best'' insecurity

Unfortunatelly thats whay most of the people are looking at. 

[rune_me]

14 minutes ago, Cloud said:

As I'm sure you've understood from OP pov, he can't stand being not able to even kill enemies, since they die so fast in a mission where they spawn in huge numbers and killing them is the only purpose of the mission itself. Sounds strange but certain people, you know... have fun actually playing the game instead of standing still watching enemies die for 5+ mins.

Well OP clearly is wrong, though. Since the behavior you describe does not fit Saryn. It fits old Saryn, where you killed everything while standing still and doing basically nothing. New Saryn, not so much. So OP clearly made up a problem that isn't real, just to complain about it on the forums afterwards.

[Cloud]

8 minutes ago, rune_me said:

Well OP clearly is wrong, though. Since the behavior you describe does not fit Saryn. It fits old Saryn, where you killed everything while standing still and doing basically nothing. New Saryn, not so much. So OP clearly made up a problem that isn't real, just to complain about it on the forums afterwards.

You're delusional if you really think what you wrote. A good builded saryn (90% out there) can literally keep you from touching enemies, leaving you occasionally something when a round end and she need to grow back her damage.  The only way to counter a saryn is by disrupting her gameplay, as for example by using an equinox who kills all the spores before she can grow damage.

And sorry but you can't be serious if you're talking about the effort Saryn must imput to achieve those results. At least I appreciate your honest "new saryn, not so much", even you know you're talking bs xD

[Azrael_V]

This is just another 'other people are getting more kills than me' thread in essence. Just go solo or form a squad. You'll feel better, guaranteed😉

Edited August 19, 2018 by Azrael_V

[rune_me]

Just now, Cloud said:

You're delusional if you really think what you wrote. A good builded saryn (90% out there) can literally keep you from touching enemies, leaving you occasionally something when a round end and she need to grow back her damage.  The only way to counter a saryn is by disrupting her gameplay, as for example by using an equinox who kills all the spores before she can grow damage.

And sorry but you can't be serious if you're talking about the effort Saryn must imput to achieve those results. At least I appreciate your honest "new saryn, not so much", even you know you're talking bs xD

No Saryn ever kept me from touching enemies. If you can't touch enemies, that's your problem. The rest of us can kill enemies just fine. 

Does Saryn in some missions, namely ESO, ends up getting more kills than me? Sure. But in no way, shape or form does she prevent me from getting kills.

[Soulden]

@Kraythax

She has always been op, but always clunky with abilities that had no synergy. It was a pain to use.

Pro tip, get on her LoS and kill whatever is on it, she can't cast spores on you. Unless shes buffing you.

Yes, I main Saryn.

 

Edited August 19, 2018 by Souldend78

[Cloud]

18 minutes ago, rune_me said:

No Saryn ever kept me from touching enemies. If you can't touch enemies, that's your problem. The rest of us can kill enemies just fine. 

Does Saryn in some missions, namely ESO, ends up getting more kills than me? Sure. But in no way, shape or form does she prevent me from getting kills.

"The rest of us can kill enemies just fine" who you're talking for? People criticize Saryn powercreep since the rework lol

I personally stand saryn because I know how to counter her and what are her flaws if I wants to play more active, and generally if someone wants to do all the work for me is more than welcomed, but I have 3k hours, most of people don't and the game should not be built around me or you, but for the whole community.

Lot of people, expecially new users have no chance to play when a Saryn is around and they're left with 2 option "go solo" and "play with friends" which is not the case in a free co-op game.

Edited August 19, 2018 by Cloud
typo

[Yatazanami]

10 minutes ago, Cloud said:

I personally stand saryn because I know how to counter her and what are her flaws

this is not overwatch dude , and your '' Lot of people, especially new users have no chance to play when a Saryn is around '' point is mote, since you will almost only find refined god level saryn builds in elite sanctuary or long runs survival/defense void fissures missions, and you rarely encounter low mr new scrubs there.

[Cloud]

2 minutes ago, Yatazanami said:

 since you will almost only find refined god level saryn builds in elite sanctuary or long runs survival/defense void fissures missions

ehm... no? You find them everywhere, even in common low missions and what you call as "refined god level saryn builds" are just full range builds achievable after max 1 hour of game with common mods.

[Lenyatta]

You can clearly see there is a problem with saryn, when lots of people who just want to play the game and have fun hack n slashing some dumb AI hordes find themselves annoingly standing still while a saryn clears the map out of enemies that die on spawn, and when someone baffled by this posts a thread on the forum you can already hear the screeches of "GIT GUD" "MUH SARYN" "TEAM BEST PLAYER SYNDRUME" "free affinity and credits whats your prublem" "JUST GO SOLO" approaching in the distance

As someone wisely said before in this thread, if AOE attack skills worked in line of sight the problem would've been already solved

[Sesaline]

17 minutes ago, Cloud said:

"The rest of us can kill enemies just fine" who you're talking for? People criticize Saryn powercreep since the rework lol

I personally stand saryn because I know how to counter her and what are her flaws if I wants to play more active, and generally if someone wants to do all the work for me is more than welcomed, but I have 3k hours, most of people don't and the game should not be built around me or you, but for the whole community.

Lot of people, expecially new users have no chance to play when a Saryn is around and they're left with 2 option "go solo" and "play with friends" which is not the case in a free co-op game.

to be fair a new user may take an entire clip and a half to down a level 25 grineer so..

Saryn tags things with DoTs. Sometimes she gets the last hit on things. You can reach enemies that aren't super low level before they die. Most people just choose not to.

You're describing the power difference between a veteran or long time player and a newcomer. Doesn't matter which frame you pick for that debate, the person with the better mods and higher MR for better weapons is going to out perform the newcomer. If that newcomer runs public matchmaking missions then surely they understand that there is a pretty good chance of them matching with people who A) know what they are doing, B) know the maps/missions well, C) have better mods, D) understand enemy weakness before starting the mission and E) really know their frame's capability and kit synergy.

A veteran with an Ignis Wraith or Amprex would get more kills than a newcomer. What is your point?? Is it not okay just because it is an ability combo? 

Everyone is using extremes in this debate over whether or not Saryn needs a nerf. A max range Saryn is going to have crazy spore spread but the player has made sacrifices somewhere towards either her duration, power, or survivability; usually two things are sacrificed in order to maximize one. So neg duration, only Vitality on = max range and average power (unless you go ham with energy conversion or blind rage to sacrifice efficiency). I have tried several builds and with Saryn, you can't have it all. If Saryn could have it all she would be truly broken. She's squishy with barely any CC probably due to her base armor value. 

High range helps with spore buildup which in turn raises the damage until either there are no enemies and her infected chain is broken or she hits the cap for that power gain and plateaus. Some frames don't plateau at all. Some frames simply become more effective as the mission progresses and more enemies with greater health/armor values show up. This is damage scaling and isn't unheard of. Why does Saryn have to suck at killing enemies on wave 5, 10, 15, or 20? Nerfing her for this level of content is going to make her useless for the people who have truly invested in her for the endgame. She isn't a braindead frame. She isn't a 'press 1 button 2 win' frame. She has several different mechanics to keep track of and maintain.

So no, she doesn't need a nerf. What she needs is less lazy teammates who don't have a shred of map awareness or motivation to actually press W and look for kills.

[Yatazanami]

11 minutes ago, Cloud said:

ehm... no? You find them everywhere, even in common low missions and what you call as "refined god level saryn builds" are just full range builds achievable after max 1 hour of game with common mods.

you must be a magnet for saryns , for me personally cant recall the last time i saw a saryn in sortie (do them daily) but they're common in ES , and you call 

Augur Reach Cunning Drift Overextended Stretch and the rest of the meta mods including primed mods 1h of play ? what are you smoking lol. 

Edited August 19, 2018 by Yatazanami

[Cloud]

3 minutes ago, Sesaline said:

text

 

2 minutes ago, Yatazanami said:

text

I could argue with both but it's clear you guys have your own opinion and I have mine. We could discuss for hours and nothing will change neither I even remotely hope to change them. I've told everything I need to and expecially I could not stand the attempt of twisting what OP said. Sorry my lunch is waiting me, have a good day :P

[Sesaline]

14 minutes ago, Cloud said:

ehm... no? You find them everywhere, even in common low missions and what you call as "refined god level saryn builds" are just full range builds achievable after max 1 hour of game with common mods.

1 hour of gameplay to achieve Overextended, Stretch, Augur Reach, and Cunning Drift? I wasn't aware that those are common mods. Wasn't aware that you gain access to those right at the start of the game. Cunning Drift is from a Lua challenge room. Augur Reach is a rng PoE bounty reward. Overextended is from vault runs in the Derelict. Crazy stuff, right? Facts are so weird like that. Unless someone trades for these as soon as they start and also buy saryn from the market or another player, they aren't going to have anything close to a max range build for some time.

also FYI a max range Saryn build is not a god tier build. It clears trash mobs quickly and makes people cry real tears but it isn't going to get you far in Mot or the like.

So much misinformation in this thread being tossed around as fact. 🤦‍♀️

[rune_me]

1 hour ago, Cloud said:

"The rest of us can kill enemies just fine" who you're talking for? People criticize Saryn powercreep since the rework lol

If you search "Saryn" on the forums, there is 2 threads about her needing a nerf. The rest is either people asking for builds or people crying that she is not as powerful as she used to be. So actually the exact opposite of what you said.

1 hour ago, Cloud said:

Lot of people, expecially new users have no chance to play when a Saryn is around and they're left with 2 option "go solo" and "play with friends" which is not the case in a free co-op game.

Same could be said for every other frame. New players play low level content. Mesa, ember, Equinox, etc, will clear enemies before any new players has a clue what happened. A few days ago I was accused of using hacks because my Equinox killed all lvl 5 enemies when they spawned. 

Hell many weapons will do that as well. My Tiberon Prime with the insane punch through it gets from my riven can clear an entire hallway of lvl 80 grinners in a 3 round burst. They would be dead even before Saryn was done with her miasma animation.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

Saryn is good for defense or ESO. A nova in the hands of a veteran and properly geared will clear the map on exterminate, spy, rescue etc and be waiting at extraction before Saryn has gotten halfway through the map.

Edited August 19, 2018 by Zilchy

[(PSN)vl_Monarch_lv]

Seems like TC is just a bad.

Saryn has a niche use now. At the high end, ESO. 

[-CdG-Zilchy]

1 minute ago, (PS4)vl_Monarch_lv said:

Seems like TC is just a bad.

Saryn has a niche use now. At the high end, ESO. 

Depends what you define as high end. If you mean 8 waves of ESO then yes.  If you mean 100 waves of defense or 2 hours of kuva survival then no, there are better frames for high level content.