Fed up with Sayrn being so stupid OP

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

2 hours ago, EinheriarJudith said:

its sad to see when people would rather go through the motions, than actually play as a team.

Because the game isn't about as playing as a team. It's about farming. Credits, endo, mods, reputation and standing, exp and then the forma. 

Which is why Saryn is popular, which is also why she is fine. How many hours have people spent farming? When people want something done quickly, and easily? Public matchmaking is usually the fastest, cause if its in end game, its being farmed. Saryn makes it faster, this helps people get the most out of their time. They don't want to be in a mission all day. 

What part of horde shooter part of warframe did you not get? It's why Saryn has nothing else to her kit. Her AoE is made to make enemies easy, and farms quick. Also why they cut Miasma's damage in half, then had it do 4x damage on spored enemies. Ever wonder why Caster frames are always so squishy? Mesa, Mirage, Saryn, Ember, Mag, Nova, etc. 

If you want playing as a team content, there were these things called "Raids" where frames like Saryn were useless btw. Now you have raid bosses. (Guess who is also useless against raid bosses? Yup. Saryn.) So if you want to complain about low level Star Chart, you're words are falling on deaf ears. 

[Pizzarugi]

4 hours ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

Because the game isn't about as playing as a team. It's about farming. Credits, endo, mods, reputation and standing, exp and then the forma. 

Which is why Saryn is popular, which is also why she is fine. How many hours have people spent farming? When people want something done quickly, and easily? Public matchmaking is usually the fastest, cause if its in end game, its being farmed. Saryn makes it faster, this helps people get the most out of their time. They don't want to be in a mission all day. 

What part of horde shooter part of warframe did you not get? It's why Saryn has nothing else to her kit. Her AoE is made to make enemies easy, and farms quick. Also why they cut Miasma's damage in half, then had it do 4x damage on spored enemies. Ever wonder why Caster frames are always so squishy? Mesa, Mirage, Saryn, Ember, Mag, Nova, etc. 

If you want playing as a team content, there were these things called "Raids" where frames like Saryn were useless btw. Now you have raid bosses. (Guess who is also useless against raid bosses? Yup. Saryn.) So if you want to complain about low level Star Chart, you're words are falling on deaf ears. 

 

21 hours ago, Pizzarugi said:

I don't see how the game having stupid levels of farming is justification as to why press-4-to-win, as a concept, should be allowed to exist. Trivializing the game for yourself and your teammates isn't healthy for the game either, no matter how bad the farming is. Not everyone wants to treat their average mission like a total snoozefest, because one person is bored and wants to nuke everything. You can be against broken warframe powers and still object to DE gating everything behind slow grinding, by the way.

Sorry, but "muh farming" isn't an excuse to justify why something broken should be in the game. There's other ways to make Saryn a damage dealer casting frame without trivializing missions for everyone else in the team not playing her.

And yes, this is a horde shooter, but guess what? You're not the only person in the team who wants to shoot hordes, but you're the only one deleting everything 50-60+ meters away, through walls no less.

Edited November 20, 2018 by Pizzarugi

[Enedora]

I don't care about her range, or her damage.

I wish I wasn't the only person here that actually cares that they made a skill that, without modding, is an absolutely guaranteed kill on any target it touches, and somehow, some way, this was considered to be a good enough design to make it to the live client.

I can think of a lot of frames that wouldn't be all that crazy if one of their skills was a guaranteed kill. I mean, Ash had Covert Lethality and the teleport augment, and nobody freaked out about him. Maybe it has something to do with the fact you had to specially mod and equip for it, and then it was single-target deletion.

This is a frame, that has a skill, that is certain death to any enemy it affects, with a very high effective range and AOE, regardless of modding or equipping. If you don't see a design flaw here, there is nothing, nothing whatsoever I can convince you of.

Again. I don't care about the range or the damage. I care that it makes the entire rest of the game formality. As someone who played more than my fair share of Saryn (and lamented molt camping all the while), I quit the day of the rework and I have zero faith in the Dev team because of it.

 

Just remember. They made a skill that has infinitely scaling damage with uncapped duration and a massive AOE as a first skill. Say that out loud 20 times. Then remember how they nerfed Excalibur's Exalted blade. Or how they planned to limit Slash to only dealing a percentage of the weapon's Slash damage. There is zero continuity in the development cycle. 

[Azrael_V]

3 hours ago, Pizzarugi said:

 

Sorry, but "muh farming" isn't an excuse to justify why something broken should be in the game. There's other ways to make Saryn a damage dealer casting frame without trivializing missions for everyone else in the team not playing her.

And yes, this is a horde shooter, but guess what? You're not the only person in the team who wants to shoot hordes, but you're the only one deleting everything 50-60+ meters away, through walls no less.

What level missions exactly are being trivialised for other players. I play PUG alot recently and when I'm playing Saryn I don't see anyone standing around doing nothing while I do all the killing. When I play Oberon or Rhino and run into a Saryn or any nuker I also rack up sufficient kills and hardly feel trivialised. Any decent player will do the same. 

[Azrael_V]

3 hours ago, Enedora said:

I don't care about her range, or her damage.

I wish I wasn't the only person here that actually cares that they made a skill that, without modding, is an absolutely guaranteed kill on any target it touches, and somehow, some way, this was considered to be a good enough design to make it to the live client.

I can think of a lot of frames that wouldn't be all that crazy if one of their skills was a guaranteed kill. I mean, Ash had Covert Lethality and the teleport augment, and nobody freaked out about him. Maybe it has something to do with the fact you had to specially mod and equip for it, and then it was single-target deletion.

This is a frame, that has a skill, that is certain death to any enemy it affects, with a very high effective range and AOE, regardless of modding or equipping. If you don't see a design flaw here, there is nothing, nothing whatsoever I can convince you of.

Again. I don't care about the range or the damage. I care that it makes the entire rest of the game formality. As someone who played more than my fair share of Saryn (and lamented molt camping all the while), I quit the day of the rework and I have zero faith in the Dev team because of it.

 

Just remember. They made a skill that has infinitely scaling damage with uncapped duration and a massive AOE as a first skill. Say that out loud 20 times. Then remember how they nerfed Excalibur's Exalted blade. Or how they planned to limit Slash to only dealing a percentage of the weapon's Slash damage. There is zero continuity in the development cycle. 

While you're having issues with Saryns 1 which is one the best in the game other players on other threads are asking for complete overhauls for the 1st skill of other frames. So where does the real problem lie?

[Shadowh4nd]

On 2018-10-05 at 3:31 PM, Pizzarugi said:

If Saryn is 1shotting everything at the highest possible level in the solar system, chances are pretty darn good that she's broken. Mesa too.

Agreeable. I don't think it's a problem that frames are "very strong" or even broken, but when it requires little to no skill, no intricacy, just the click of a button, it needs reworked. It's not impossible for a frame to be strong BUT harder to use. And, being PvE, we need other frames made powerful as an alternative to the Saryn/Volt meta.

[(PSN)chris1pat8twins]

10 hours ago, Shadowh4nd said:

Agreeable. I don't think it's a problem that frames are "very strong" or even broken, but when it requires little to no skill, no intricacy, just the click of a button, it needs reworked. It's not impossible for a frame to be strong BUT harder to use. And, being PvE, we need other frames made powerful as an alternative to the Saryn/Volt meta.

I would love to know what mods they are using to “1shot” enemies on the “highest” levels. My Saryn can only do that with a max strength rhino power me up. Maybe add nidus and nova. Right now it would seem everybody saying she is “1shotting” enemies are greatly exaggerating. And the simulacrum is definitely not a good argument since me and few buddies have tested it multiple times with multiple warframes. Maybe that is why DE hasn’t respond to people’s demand for a nerf. The real problem is clearly valkyr users feeling bored that players aren’t holding back for them to take their sweet precious time killing enemies in a game that requires lots of killing and farming. And most Saryn complainers are mostly about low level missions. Clearly these people don’t know that DE also play the game a lot. 

[(PSN)chris1pat8twins]

Y’all do know that saryn spreads like a virus right? Meaning in the air. Meaning it can spread quickly. And this game doesn’t follow the laws of physics like reality. Otherwise DE might as well turn this into a COD. Lots of contradictions and irony in the forums. 

[Xaxma]

It's because you're probably trying to play defense with her on Hydron.

Hydron is a tiny, tiny room.

It's no wonder that the tiny room makes an AoE frame look great.

I don't see Saryn offering the same results on open world, survival (where the enemies are constantly mobile and spawning from different points), or literally any large map where you're not likely to sit in one place for too long.

I used to hate on Saryn too, and maybe she's still in a bit of a strong place at the moment, too strong, but that's because other frames need help more than she needs dialing back. After playing her myself for sometime, I can just tell you right now that after playing Saryn for a while myself, you don't know the meaning of heartbreak quite like watching your spore count drop back down to zero because of bad enemy spawn positions, which results in you reverting back to near uselessness if you're playing something high level and it isn't Hydron or ESO. 

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

On 2018-10-05 at 1:31 PM, Pizzarugi said:

If Saryn is 1shotting everything at the highest possible level in the solar system, chances are pretty darn good that she's broken. Mesa too.

The Solar System missions are low tier missions dude. 

Every frame is designed to be overpowered to level 30 missions. Tell me one frame, ONE frame, that struggles against those enemies. 

It is very likely, that an additional solar system is added in the future. (Being the Tau System...) Where it will have much higher levels, that actually are semi challenging. Like every mission being a sortie- 

If you consider the Solar System missions the base standard for balance, you are truly a newb. (Wanting to BUY the old raids back, where Saryn was useless.)

[Pizzarugi]

52 minutes ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

The Solar System missions are low tier missions dude. 

Every frame is designed to be overpowered to level 30 missions. Tell me one frame, ONE frame, that struggles against those enemies. 

It is very likely, that an additional solar system is added in the future. (Being the Tau System...) Where it will have much higher levels, that actually are semi challenging. Like every mission being a sortie- 

If you consider the Solar System missions the base standard for balance, you are truly a newb. (Wanting to BUY the old raids back, where Saryn was useless.)

The star chart is the base standard for balance. I don't count sorties, kuva floods, or arbitrations, because just about everything meant for veterans is time locked between 1-24 hours. The majority of your time will be spent on level 1-60 missions, be it alerts, invasions, syndicate missions, or fissures. If you want to spend 1 hour or more in survival, you're doing it because you want to push yourself to the limit (or you're determined as hell to get your resources in one mission), but I strongly doubt DE are designing frames to tackle enemies beyond level 100, much less 150. Why? Because there's literally nothing in the game that needs the ridiculous kind of power you have for anything greater, to hit entire rooms and possibly kill everything with 1-2 pushes of a button.

So unless DE adds something like the Tau system which is meant for endgamers or veterans, everything is designed around the Origin system and its low levels, and as such, there's no reason why frames like Saryn should be able to trivialize everything for them and everyone not playing them.

Edited November 23, 2018 by Pizzarugi

[Lazarow]

Some frames are dps, some are def and some support and some hybrids.

Also imagine if no frame did a good ammount of damage that would make everything hard and not enjoyable, saryn is on of those frames that if built well makes good damage

[KinderHades]

I find that queuing up for a public match there are some expectations that have to understood. If you don't spec into wholesale slaughter you probably won't have many kills. if I just want some casual fun I go solo, I can spend as much time as I want with no pressure from teammates who 9/10 want to get things done as fast as possible. nerfing a frame just because you queued up for public experience without an understanding what it entails.

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

1 hour ago, Pizzarugi said:

The star chart is the base standard for balance.

Nope. 
Star Chart is the base standard for new players to play through, on their starting frames. 

You can get through the star chart with a base warframe, low levels guns, and a rank 4 shields/health mod. 

None of it is made to be challenging. That's the point of it. It's the starting missions, and has no part of balance. Sorties are closer to what content is balanced towards, 
 

1 hour ago, Pizzarugi said:

I don't count sorties, kuva floods, or arbitrations, because just about everything meant for veterans is time locked between 1-24 hours. 

Time gating content has nothing to do with balance. Raids were limited to once per day for that raid key ( 1 Lor, 1 Nm Lor, and one Jordas Verdict every 24 hours.) To stop people from just farming arcanes over and over. People can farm eidolons multiple times a day, but have to wait for the night time cycle. Same reason, just to stop people from amassing arcanes too quickly. When Kuva needed to be more obtainable, they added a survival just so more people and get large quantities of it, constantly. 

People would farm sorties, over and over if they were able to. To get more rivens, legendary fusion cores, endo and the other resources. It's to prevent them from getting everything TOO quickly. I wish Arbitrations were on a 30 minute timer, rather then an hour timer. As the mods I want from it are still low at a 3% drop on rotation C, but it's only a matter of time. This has nothing to do with balance, and is a complete logical fallacy on your part. 
 

 

1 hour ago, Pizzarugi said:

If you want to spend 1 hour or more in survival, you're doing it because you want to push yourself to the limit (or you're determined as hell to get your resources in one mission), but I strongly doubt DE are designing frames to tackle enemies beyond level 100, much less 150. Why? Because there's literally nothing in the game that needs the ridiculous kind of power you need for anything greater, to hit entire rooms and possibly kill everything with 1-2 pushes of a button.

Inaros, Nidus, Chroma , Limbo and frames like them say hi. Nidus being literally immortal if you build stacks. I have seen Nidus fight level 2700s and I have personally shrugged off hits as Nidus fighting only level 600s. A level 607 healer hit me for 300 damage. Before damage reduction, that hit would have done right around 10,300 damage normally. 90% damage reduction from parasitic link, + damage reduction from armor, makes quite a difference. Took my 6 seconds to heal that damage with his ultimate. My Limbo has killed level 9,999 glitched bosses. (Which was incredibly fun.)  Some frames can shrug off level 150 enemies without much effort. Even more so, new mods that are coming out, Like Rolling Guard, that make frames invincible for certain amount of time. Or the damage reduction mod, that makes frames take less damage, from repeated sources of damage.... Which would be largely pointless against level 30 enemies. The damage is so minor at that level, that there is no need for defense mods like this. 

 

1 hour ago, Pizzarugi said:

So unless DE adds something like the Tau system which is meant for endgamers or veterans, everything is designed around the Origin system and its low levels, and as such, there's no reason why frames like Saryn should be able to trivialize everything for them and everyone not playing them.

This is why DE has added more and more high level content. The Solar System, is balanced to LOW levels, so that even low level players have access to everything. Not so they can complete everything. Earth is a low level planet. Missions there tend to be on average, between level 2 and level 6. (Average enemy has about 250 health. -Level 15 tusk lance) The MOST BASIC warframe aoe, at level 30 has the capacity to press 4 and wipe out everything in range at this level. Dark Sectors might have it go a bit higher, to level 6 though 16 Yet low level players will have access to the Plains. Then by extension, Eidolons, despite not having anything they need to kill or take on a Hydrolyst let alone the standard Eidolon. Plains have the added bonus, of making Saryn harmless, as it is large enough to go off on your own, and participate in bounties. Fortuna is the same way. 

Saryn becomes less of a problem the farther you get away from low levels. Nobody complains about her when you get into any real content.... Like Arbitrations... Raid, or raid bosses... Curious... None of this is a problem if you go into a little match making menu, and remove yourself from playing publicly, so veterans who are trying to speed up the grind, aren't matched with you. Solo, friends only, or invite only. There's a recruitment tab in chat, just so you can find other people to play with, without effecting your experience. I highly recommend it for people who complain about it. 

Warframe scales like most MMO's. I'll use the example of Final Fantasy 14. A level 70, can solo most content, that a level 50 would need a full team for. Warframe scales to match that. However, you don't see that the Saryn you are playing with, has 6 forma in it, and the full umbra mods. Or any indication of the time put into getting the endo and credits to max the mods. You just see a level 30 Saryn. Yet... Putting in Forma into a warframe makes it capable of being much stronger then the base version. 

We have a bunch of level 70's running around in level 50 areas, simply because it's a looter shooter game. Get used to it. It's a grindy game. You have match making options for a reason. 

I could complain about going into sorties with randoms that mess up the spy mission, and make me start all over. Or, I could prevent the problem in the first place, and go in solo; and the problem never exists in the first place. 

Edited November 23, 2018 by (PS4)UltraKardas

[Pizzarugi]

19 minutes ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

Time gating content has nothing to do with balance. Raids were limited to once per day for that raid key ( 1 Lor, 1 Nm Lor, and one Jordas Verdict every 24 hours.) To stop people from just farming arcanes over and over. People can farm eidolons multiple times a day, but have to wait for the night time cycle. Same reason, just to stop people from amassing arcanes too quickly. When Kuva needed to be more obtainable, they added a survival just so more people and get large quantities of it, constantly. 

People would farm sorties, over and over if they were able to. To get more rivens, legendary fusion cores, endo and the other resources. It's to prevent them from getting everything TOO quickly. I wish Arbitrations were on a 30 minute timer, rather then an hour timer. As the mods I want from it are still low at a 3% drop on rotation C, but it's only a matter of time. This has nothing to do with balance, and is a complete logical fallacy on your part. 

I still don't see why we should count them for endgame content, regardless of reasons why they're being time-gated. You're still going to be stuck running level 1-60 missions most of the time, regardless if you're waiting for the next kuva flood or arbitration to be ready.

22 minutes ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

Inaros, Nidus, Chroma , Limbo and frames like them say hi. Nidus being literally immortal if you build stacks. I have seen Nidus fight level 2700s and I have personally shrugged off hits as Nidus fighting only level 600s. A level 607 healer hit me for 300 damage. Before damage reduction, that hit would have done right around 10,300 damage normally. 90% damage reduction from parasitic link, + damage reduction from armor, makes quite a difference. Took my 6 seconds to heal that damage with his ultimate. My Limbo has killed level 9,999 glitched bosses. (Which was incredibly fun.)  Some frames can shrug off level 150 enemies without much effort. Even more so, new mods that are coming out, Like Rolling Guard, that make frames invincible for certain amount of time. Or the damage reduction mod, that makes frames take less damage, from repeated sources of damage.... Which would be largely pointless against level 30 enemies. The damage is so minor at that level, that there is no need for defense mods like this. 

You talk about logical fallacies, yet here you are trying to deflect from the topic of the OP, which is press-4-to-win frames like Saryn deleting rooms and leaving teammates with little else to do. And I'm sorry, but Nidus, Inaros, and Chroma can be as invulnerable as they like and they can reach level 2700+ for all they like, but very few people are interested in going that far (judging from pub matches where everyone wants to bail after the first C rotation reward except excavation, anyway). There's no incentive in the game to encourage players to last that long, except for those who want to push themselves to their limit. I'm pretty certain the game isn't being designed and balanced around players who do.

And again, since we're supposed to be on the subject of frames like Saryn wiping out rooms, let me know when Nidus's 1 or 4, Inaros's 4, or any of Chroma's abilities (outside of Vex Armor and spin2win) can trivialize the game for themselves and the people teamed up with them. They're invulnerable, but they still have to worry about getting overwhelmed by opponents if their powers run out, and none of them are capable of turning missions into walking simulators and AFK sessions for teammates.

42 minutes ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

Saryn becomes less of a problem the farther you get away from low levels. Nobody complains about her when you get into any real content.... Like Arbitrations... Raid, or raid bosses... Curious... None of this is a problem if you go into a little match making menu, and remove yourself from playing publicly, so veterans who are trying to speed up the grind, aren't matched with you. Solo, friends only, or invite only. There's a recruitment tab in chat, just so you can find other people to play with, without effecting your experience. I highly recommend it for people who complain about it.

I've already gone through this multiple times throughout the existence of this topic. The only people who should be playing solo are the ones trivializing the game. Clearly they don't need teammates, so solo would be more fitting for them. The only reason they don't is the same reason nobody likes playing solo: Spawns are garbage. Saryn/Volt/Mesa/Equinox players don't play solo, because they want teammates to act as spawn-slaves to get more enemies to appear. As it turns out, survival missions are a lot less likely to fail if more enemies are available to kill and drop life support. This doesn't even cover the advantages of farming resources by having teammates.

And in case it gets brought up: No, not everyone likes to play Nekros, and they're not going to like being forced to play him just so they can farm survival solo comfortably.

50 minutes ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

Warframe scales like most MMO's. I'll use the example of Final Fantasy 14. A level 70, can solo most content, that a level 50 would need a full team for.

I don't play it, but somehow I doubt even level 70 players in FF14 can destroy everything around them from 50+ meters away with a single press of a button like Saryn can.

[Azrael_V]

1 hour ago, Pizzarugi said:

The star chart is the base standard for balance. I don't count sorties, kuva floods, or arbitrations, because just about everything meant for veterans is time locked between 1-24 hours. The majority of your time will be spent on level 1-60 missions, be it alerts, invasions, syndicate missions, or fissures. If you want to spend 1 hour or more in survival, you're doing it because you want to push yourself to the limit (or you're determined as hell to get your resources in one mission), but I strongly doubt DE are designing frames to tackle enemies beyond level 100, much less 150. Why? Because there's literally nothing in the game that needs the ridiculous kind of power you have for anything greater, to hit entire rooms and possibly kill everything with 1-2 pushes of a button.

So unless DE adds something like the Tau system which is meant for endgamers or veterans, everything is designed around the Origin system and its low levels, and as such, there's no reason why frames like Saryn should be able to trivialize everything for them and everyone not playing them.

So we should nerf Saryn and other nukers because of low level missions which every frame can trivialise. Isn't that what happened to Ember and now the majority of players are calling for her to be buffed again. With this logic we should nerf the vast majority of weapons as well. Honestly no thank you. 

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

1 hour ago, Pizzarugi said:

I still don't see why we should count them for endgame content, regardless of reasons why they're being time-gated. You're still going to be stuck running level 1-60 missions most of the time, regardless if you're waiting for the next kuva flood or arbitration to be ready.

So are you aware of what "End Game content" even means? Like.... I hope you are trolling at this point, and not brain dead. Are you aware that most other MMO's with established Raids, (World of Warcraft, Destiny 1 + 1.02) Final Fantasy 14, Guild Wars, SWTOR, DCUO, etc.... have time gates on their end game content too? Most other games with raids have it time gated behind a weekly reset. Not a daily reset, like Warframe. This means you will spend most of your time NOT raiding, as if you complete the raids at the start of the week, you won't be able to get rewards till the next reset. So you can go do any other content, as long as you want. Raids are still the End Game Content, regardless of how much or little time spent on it. 

Those examples also don't usually have classes as powerful as Warframes, either. Yet they can run lower end content all the time. Gathering crafting mats, leveling other classes or characters, the host of other reasons doesn't matter. End Game Content isn't defined by what you do the most... But by being the most difficult content, available. Casual players statistically spent the least amount of time in End Game content. While the more serious players focus on it. Sorties, and Arbitrations are the most perfect example of End Game content, as you are unable to bring in Warframes that aren't max level. End Game isn't just limited to one thing either, that's why all of these are included. The goal isn't level progression, and is instead whatever loot you get from a successful completion. I would love to just farm sorties over and over, till I get enough legendary fusion cores to instantly level every primed and umbra mod I have. Just like people would love to farm raids in other games, to get gear and equipment as quickly as possible, but can't from the lockout periods in their game. 



 

Edited November 24, 2018 by (PS4)UltraKardas

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

2 hours ago, Pizzarugi said:

You talk about logical fallacies, yet here you are trying to deflect from the topic of the OP, which is press-4-to-win frames like Saryn deleting rooms and leaving teammates with little else to do. 

Perhaps instead of whining, you might want to start, trying to kill things? Saryn's damage from Miasma was cut in half on enemies not effected by spores, and doubled by enemies with spores. That means that you can't press 4 to kill everything, unless you are fighting enemies so low level. Base Miasma does 900 damage total over 6 seconds. A level 30 Elite Lancer has 1,343 health. A level 40 Elite Lancer, has 4,043 health. Five levels later, that Elite Lancer will have 6,413 health - Beyond Saryn's ability to one shot with Miasma alone. If you are fighting anything under level 30, then that might be a problem for you. You can either join a defense mission, and just stay till the Saryn leaves, (Most people don't stay past wave 10/15) or You can go solo. Any number of options are open to you then throw a tantrum about how "broken" a warframe is in their niche. Limbo is just as broken in defense and Excavation missions as Saryn is. Nidus and Inaros and the like are ultimately much stronger frames. Nidus being able to do 50k damage with his first ability alone. Chroma's are basically the go to damage dealer for Eidolons, while you never, ever see a Saryn brought to fight them. 
 

2 hours ago, Pizzarugi said:

And again, since we're supposed to be on the subject of frames like Saryn wiping out rooms, let me know when Nidus's 1 or 4, Inaros's 4, or any of Chroma's abilities (outside of Vex Armor and spin2win) can trivialize the game for themselves and the people teamed up with them. They're invulnerable, but they still have to worry about getting overwhelmed by opponents if their powers run out, and none of them are capable of turning missions into walking simulators and AFK sessions for teammates.

Are you aware weapons exist? Amprex + Chroma. Mirage + any weapon, (Though the Atomos and the Synoid sim are the best examples) The concept of Octavia as a whole. Just the Concept. https://youtu.be/4WkCRr1Woeo?t=469
Though, if you are doubting what Chroma can do, you clearly haven't delved much into min Maxing. Plot Twist, low level enemies are going to be wet cardboard against these frames. You can either race against them to get kills, or just keep complaining. Frames like them aren't going anywhere. 
 

2 hours ago, Pizzarugi said:

I've already gone through this multiple times throughout the existence of this topic. The only people who should be playing solo are the ones trivializing the game. Clearly they don't need teammates, so solo would be more fitting for them. The only reason they don't is the same reason nobody likes playing solo: Spawns are garbage. Saryn/Volt/Mesa/Equinox players don't play solo, because they want teammates to act as spawn-slaves to get more enemies to appear. As it turns out, survival missions are a lot less likely to fail if more enemies are available to kill and drop life support. This doesn't even cover the advantages of farming resources by having teammates.

You have repeated it again, and again. Doesn't make your statement any more correct. Wasn't correct the first time, wasn't correct the last time. People who have the issue, of a teammate being too capable is a First World Problem. No other single game in the history of the world, have teammates complain that. Yet, those people who complain, like you do- Have the answer sitting in their lap. People who go Saryn, want a quick mission, a quick farm, or just like playing the frame. None of those are good reasons to punish the Saryn player. Especially since Saryn's require support in higher end content. If your fun is being impeded by other people, Tough luck. You can't control other people. You can control yourself, ask certain people to play with you, or switch to solo mode. If you want to control certain people, you might be a fascist! Options are available to tailor your experience to your liking; Such as the aforementioned Recruitment tab. 
 

 

2 hours ago, Pizzarugi said:

And in case it gets brought up: No, not everyone likes to play Nekros, and they're not going to like being forced to play him just so they can farm survival solo comfortably.

Not sure what point you are trying to make here? Just about every other warframe with a good loadout can easily go into survival and be successful. I went into a survival with a Mesa and a Nova. Lasted an hour easily before we decided to go eat. Tanky frames usually have an easier time in survival just being able to soak up damage, but you can click that 8 hour octavia survival at your leisure. That Youtuber is an excellent Min-maxing player who usually gets the most out of his warframes. You might want to look him up, since you don't really know what most frames are capable off... That being said, don't understand why you want Saryn to go into a survival solo, for the soul reason she is a Saryn. You would think most teams would like to kill quickly for the life support....
 

2 hours ago, Pizzarugi said:

I don't play it, but somehow I doubt even level 70 players in FF14 can destroy everything around them from 50+ meters away with a single press of a button like Saryn can.

Depends what level and the type of enemies you are fighting. A level 70 Summoner can kill anything before a level 50 melee gets close to it. More range, better gear, higher levels will do that. Shocker, the only real enemies that won't melt instantly are the enemies appropriately leveled to the player. Doesn't stop the level 70 from going into low level areas and farming Boar hides for the crafting materials he needs. (And You can't really tell the level 70 that he isn't allowed to farm them so he can craft items with it) 

 

 

 

Edited November 24, 2018 by (PS4)UltraKardas

[Illairen]

I encounter one Saryn in almost every team. Too often for my taste even two of them.

Why are so many players using that frame? Because that frame is so well designed?

No. Because that frame is overpowered.

I don`t think its healthy for the game if players neglect many frames because they are so much weaker than the OP ones.

 

 

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

3 hours ago, Illairen said:

I encounter one Saryn in almost every team. Too often for my taste even two of them.

Why are so many players using that frame? Because that frame is so well designed?

No. Because that frame is overpowered.

I don`t think its healthy for the game if players neglect many frames because they are so much weaker than the OP ones.

Why do so many players use it? Probably cause it's the best tool for the job.

I go into a spy mission, I use a stealth frame. I go into an excavation, I go limbo, or a different defense frame. -perhaps Gara. 

This game is a horde shooter after all.... The name of game is killing thousands of enemies... Saryn isn't broken, she's just one of best at what she does. Her kit only focuses on one thing, and if she didn't do it well, nobody would use her. 

[Azrael_V]

6 hours ago, Illairen said:

I encounter one Saryn in almost every team. Too often for my taste even two of them.

Why are so many players using that frame? Because that frame is so well designed?

No. Because that frame is overpowered.

I don`t think its healthy for the game if players neglect many frames because they are so much weaker than the OP ones.

 

 

If you mean over powered for low level missions then sure. I also point you to the vast majority of frames my friend and lets not forget the vast majority of weapons as well. You guys are complaining about what other players are using that doesn't affect you in the least. Same with people using their favourite weapons. It doesn't affect you. Never in all my time of playing this game have I decided to play Saryn and my squadmates huddled together in the centre of the map and let me wipe rooms. It doesn't work like that in this game. There are so many bad frames in the game with players practically begging DE for reworks constantly yet you wanna focus on Saryn one of the best designed frames in the game. So lets nerf the frames now due to their power on low level gameplay making her objectively worse like most of the frames people actually want DE to rework because they suck at higher levels. Nice job. Brilliant logic.

You guys are also missing a huge point. Saryns killing capability is balanced out by her squishiness. At higher levels a Saryn player has to really watch their back. Miasma doesn't kill anything on higher levels unless your Spores have built up sufficient damage. Spores however will keep decaying because the rest of the game is not ESO and enemy spawns won't help on the damage ramp up effectively reducing the effectiveness of Spore + Miasma combo. The combo is made even worse by high level Corpus and Corrupted enemies. Saryn also needs a decent weapon loadout to be effective which alot of accusers here seem to conveniently forget.

So overpowered for where and what exactly? Low levels? 

 

 

 

Edited November 24, 2018 by Azrael_V

[Conflux59]

Some frames like Saryn keep getting attention again and again... while others DE wont touch with a ten foot pole.
@moostar95 Agreed, Chroma is the poster child of a joke.  If they did anything* to him at this point, it would end up a buff by default only because of how bad he is currently.

So... even though some frames like saryn go on a roller coaster of nerfs and buffs depending on ones point of view, I wonder ...is that considered better or worse than frames that are outdated and/or ignored, and will not change for the foreseeable future❔

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

19 hours ago, moostar95 said:

Lets be real here. When you and i go on a defense mission. You are using saryn. Gara is still underused. Limbo is still hated. Saryn is a room cleaner. 

I'm more likely to play the frame that can run the objective. (Since I ran raids, did raid bosses, and spent most my time where killing enemies faster, was occasionally convenient, but pointless against raids/raid bosses.) Limbo as hated as he is, is great for keeping things alive. Even more so if you get that arbitration mission, where you have an npc who runs around the entire time. My warframe usage wildly varies. My Saryn has been used .7% of my play time. Saryn Prime being 1.2% of my play time. While other Frames like Frost and Trinity are at 6-7%... 
My most used warframe is at 14%, and most people probably wouldn't guess who it is. 

Saryn is nice for making Defense missions quicker. I really dislike waiting for waves to spawn. (Probably the mission I hate the most.) 

[blacklusterseph]

On 2018-11-24 at 4:52 AM, Illairen said:

I encounter one Saryn in almost every team. Too often for my taste even two of them.

Why are so many players using that frame? Because that frame is so well designed?

No. Because that frame is overpowered.

I don`t think its healthy for the game if players neglect many frames because they are so much weaker than the OP ones.

I think there would be less of an issue with Saryn's power if it wasn't so cheap. I saw someone bring up the effort of levelling her but honestly, on the current iteration of this frame, that is irrelevant. There is basically no, skill, progression, resource or strategic cost to how current Saryn works. You can dump all your mods, arcanes, formas and focus and go into a mission with nothing but Overextened and an unmodded Kraken pistol and it would have little to no effect on the lethality of Spores.

Meanwhile none of what was needed (and offered via feedback) to enable Saryn's other builds such as her melee was even addressed, but everyone is lining up to give Pablo a pat on the back for this nonsense.

Edited November 25, 2018 by blacklusterseph

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

16 hours ago, blacklusterseph said:

I think there would be less of an issue with Saryn's power if it wasn't so cheap. I saw someone bring up the effort of levelling her but honestly, on the current iteration of this frame, that is irrelevant. There is basically no, skill, progression, resource or strategic cost to how current Saryn works. You can dump all your mods, arcanes, formas and focus and go into a mission with nothing but Overextened and an unmodded Kraken pistol and it would have little to no effect on the lethality of Spores.

Not quite true. with -40% Strength, spores damage would take a long time to build up. The only enemies that would be killed are extremely low level, and would probably have the spores reset almost instantly. You also have to shoot/melee/miasma said spores to get them to spread. Miasma is the worst way, as I'm not sure it has the bonus multiplier added this way. The best spores method is casting them multiple times, then toxic lash and melee. That's no less than 75-100 energy, and the time to do it. Most other warframe skills don't revolve around skill. So I don't really see your point. What powers are you comparing it to, that require skill? 

As somebody who has played Saryn more recently for different things, I have gotten used to going from 1k stacks, to 0 in about 9 seconds. Stacks aren't really meant to be kept.