Archwing content... Uggggghhhhhh. Change my mind.

[Hypernaut1]

1 hour ago, Lisztomaniac said:

i dont mind archwing controls by themselves my only two complains are, it needs an horizontal orientation key, and the guns need to be attached to the archwing, your two hands should be busy handling the vehicle, if you give the players the "freedom"to aim independently of your AW then ironically youre essentially forcing the players to sit and shoot, because they have that option and there is no point in doing anything else since acting like a turret its more effective.

the level and enemy design its #*!%ing horrendous, who desided to make the corridors for archwing; which move a few times faster than warframes, smaller than the corridors for warframes, if youre goint o make archwing levels a tunnel where you barely fit, at least make invisible collision so that you dont get stuck on every piece of envirerment that sticks out, have it be a "repelling forcefield" or something so that you dont get stuck on every #*!%ing notch.

as for enemies, the only fun archwing enemy ive encountered was the oogma in space, since you can actually kind of dogfight it, wish dargyns werent floating pieces of S#&$ and instead had more of a dog fighting style going on. 

as an added note, NONE wants a space sim where you float around liek a #*!%ing turret shooting enemies, people that want to play space battles, want dog fighting, trying to give archwings the same mechanics of warframes is stupid, youre on a vehicle it should handle as vehicle, and yes i know archwing arent designed as a vehicle but rather a kind of jetpack, and i think that should be changed, its ok for them to work as jetpacks on the plains, but having it work as jetpacks on open space its boring and silly, youre essentially just playing a more restrictive warframe with diferent abilities, sitting still on AW shouldnt be the normal playstyle  it should be certain death. this could be fixed by making enemies do way more damage when they do hit, but we could ofset that by giving them a dramatic decrease in their aim against fast moving targets (the same mechanic that dodge has could be implemented on AW boost).

 

i actually think is the other way around, the gameplay on archwing is way too familiar, since its just warframe combat on 0G, this makes archwing boring because instead of feeling like youre on a space sim, you feel like youre just a warframe floating in space, trading parkour for a massive speed boost in your spacebar, a tradeoff that hurts the experience, for me to love archwing the whole combat would have to be diferent from warframes, when i want to play warframes i want the parkour to be there, when i want my space battles i want my dogfights to be there, right now archwing feels like they tried to make a mixed experience, and we only got the worse of both worlds.

playing archwing to me feels even more restrictive than playing operator, you stand like a turret you kill a few enemies, you dash away and repeat for minutes on end.

Im the opposite opinion. I preferred it when it felt more like controlling a Warframe in the air. I don't like the new floaty 360dof controls. 

I HATE how your bullets don't come from the gun but the cursor. 

[Beas7ie]

On 2018-10-20 at 1:03 AM, kambinks said:

Its the same with the main game. If you're trying to play the normal game with Excalibur and Mk Bo and Mk Braton through the starchart you're not going to enjoy it and be frustrated by quite alot. If you actually have the weapons and archwings maxed and formad it can be pretty fun. 

Melee is much more fun imo that the guns where most are a hit and miss being the hits are only Fluctus and Imperator Vandal imo but the melee can be really fast paced Ash's 4 type of killing fun. Spamming the melee button feels like you're teleporting between enemies to kill and definitely fun personally.

Itzals suck everything skill is great but personally i prefer Elytrons nuke ability. The frames are different enough that they have diff purposes to them. 

Basically i'd hate the gameplay too if all i have is a lvl 20 Odonata, lvl 10 Grattler, half assed Veritux and no decent mod builds and potato on them.

Even with good Archwing gear, it's still kind of..... terrible.  

 

There are really two main types of maps.  A Grineer asteroid field and  the insides of a Corpus ship.  It was kind of cool the first time seeing the battle in the background but now it's just old, plus this Corpus ship is getting annihilated by a Formorian.  It's pretty much scrap at this point and all the crew are either dead, running away, or going full suicide and trying to fight the Tenno with space jetpacks, why are we trying to "sabotage" this ship?

 

Archwing is a great idea with awesome potential(I did remember one mission where I was flying around an asteroid field near Saturn and got a cool screenshot with Saturn's rings in the background.  As crazy as games can get I would never in a hundred years would have imagined I'd be playing a game as a space ninja in a space jetpack flying around an asteroid fiield with Saturn and it's rings in the background) but along the way it seems a lot of corners were cut and over the 3 or 4 years it's been out they've hardly done anything with it.

 

And don't get me started on the only "boss fight" with it.  I know it can be easy but it's still lame.  Just like most of the other "boss fights" it's just shoot the glowing weak spot.  Ugh  I got myself all worked up now, if anyone needs me, I'll be in the angry dome.

[Lisztomaniac]

Il y a 1 heure, Hypernaut1 a dit :

Im the opposite opinion. I preferred it when it felt more like controlling a Warframe in the air. I don't like the new floaty 360dof controls. 

I HATE how your bullets don't come from the gun but the cursor. 

i dont mind the controls that much, but as long as we have the controls of a warframe, we cant have a space dogfight game, because it will always be just simplero to sit still anf fire away as a turret, i like archwing in itself, but the combat around it its so boring because its precisely like warframe combat but dumbed down, melee E spam its even worse on archwing, something that seems imposible to become simpler when you play as warframe, shooting is worse because youre not shooting at true enemies youre shooting at little far away dots, or turning around in your own axis to kill the ones surrounding you, i dont mind current archwing controls, but you cant have your cake and eat it, if we are to ever have good fun space combat we need to make compromises, and archwing control mechanics are the first thing that needs to be changed, and some restrictions need to be apply, its a case of too much freedom removing choise at this point.

MY SUGGESTION: FIGHT OR FLIGHT COMBAT

FIGHT AND FLIGHT MODE:

MELEE/ FIGHT MODE:  turns into combat reminiscent of the current combat, it would come with better melee mechanics, melee only, a little more survavility but youd move slow, better for close enconters and maneuvers. maybe we could add archwing secondaries, lackluster guns that are mostly utility and get stronger when you swtich to flight mode, this so that youre not completely left without projectile weapons, hoewever its important that said weapons cant ever pass up as primaries, or then it defeats the purpose.

FLIGHT MODE / DOGFIGHT MODE: archwing guns should have to be mounted on the archwing, boosters bunch up on your back reminiscent of the rocketeer they are permanently on at normal throtle, pressing W engages full boost giving you the same effect that roll has (75% reduced damage taken), pressing S breaks, double tapping A,S,D or W engages maneuvers, obviouly they would need to tweak maneuvers to fit more with the dogfighting style, this mode would trade maneuverability and thoughness for speed and firepower, allowing you to run from/after faster enemies but making you too feeble to float at low throtle just shooting enemies .EDIT: forgot to mention, secondaries on this mode would act like the "missiles" of a plane, your primary would be normal fire, but using your secondary in flight mode should give things like lock-on missiles. also E would fire the secondary weapon while in flight mode.

this way everyone is happy we got enemies to fight in melee form with the warframe-like 0g controls, but there would also be enemies that force you to engage in dogfights, restricting melee/gun to the specific mode, makes it so that you dont sit around in melee form shooting like it s now and it also prevents the boost+melee style we have now, switching from one mode to the next would be  instant by pressing Spacebar but your melee/gun would need an animation that delays firing/meleeing, to avoid people just boosting, transform+melee+transform, and boosting again. i firmly believe some restrictions need to be in place for a sytem to actually work, and in my sugestion the holster delay is that restriction.

 

if youi wanna get an idea of the type of combat im aiming for look no further than Galak-Z, when i played that game for the first time, i remember thinking "this is what i dreamed archwing was going to be", then i had to quit warframe for a while to play galak-z because it was the actual archwing i was waiting for.

 

Edited October 26, 2018 by Lisztomaniac

[DatDarkOne]

On ‎2018‎-‎10‎-‎20 at 4:33 AM, Joe_Barbarian said:

Why are people making threads with Change my mind like they are important enough to have people change their mind.

Thank goodness someone said it.  

[(PSN)chubbslawson]

On 2018-10-20 at 1:42 AM, AlMcFly said:

Lol, I have maxed out gear and I still detest the mode in every level that has a narrow corridor.  

Me too 

[Zgwortz]

I've now played through early Archwing 3 times as I've streamed 2 alt accounts from the start for educational/experimental purposes.   Early Archwing seemed to be really annoying until the last time around I realized I'd been playing it all wrong.  Much like with Warframes, I found it better to more on Melee than Ranged in Archwing at the start.   Melee in early Archwing feels like an anime - it's fast, easy, powerful, and surprisingly satisfying.

What is problematic is certain missions (Pursuit, I'm looking at you) where you really need better gear or more people - difficult unless you recruit since most people don't do a lot of public Archwing, and ALL the better gear is Dojo gated - and often Syndicate gated as well.   You're just not gonna get that until MUCH later in the game.

Railjack can do a lot to fix this (especially if they add another Archwing with it which I suspect they will -- we're way overdue...), but with two quicker changes, they might make it more accessible - Make the Archwing Launcher Foundry Segment blueprint available for credits from the market or through a Plains of Eidolon quest, and add some kind of mission type in the Plains of Eidolon and/or Fortuna which requires Archwing action (maybe even achievement related like the Hoverboard stuff in Fortuna - and producing Archwing related rewards...) - one which only pops up if they select Archwing tagged bounties.   Then people can better level up Archwings in the Plains and making the later missions more viable.

[DissentWomble]

9 hours ago, Pr1A said:

As you said, it's subjective but Archwing obviously isn't fun for most players given how almost no one plays it except for star chart completion and grinding mastery in Salacia.

Archwing just lacks the things most people enjoy in the normal gameplay.

The fun movement system? Nope, instead you get some of the worst controls in the history of video games.

Vast arsenal of frames and weapons? Nope, you only get a handful, most of which are pretty boring.

Seeing your enemies being torn to shreds, burnt to ashes, melted to a gory mess and so forth? Nope, instead everything just pops like some lame firecracker.

Consider the ratio of archwing content compared to the normal content its not suprising that we have only few archwing types compared to warframes. But they are different enough each of them but I'm not going to bother explaining each considering my initial point that you actually have to have good mods and played each archwing to notice the difference between them. 

Ever nuked a map with Elytron? or Itzal sucking skill then melee the frozen enemies? Spam melee with your Prisma Veritux or Onorix? You wont be able to "Seeing your enemies being torn to shreds, burnt to ashes, melted to a gory mess and so forth" with your unpotato'ed, low level, badly modded archwings.

Try doing the same with a lvl 15 mag with no potato, broken mods and awful build in a Hydron and tell me how you're "shredding" the enemies. <-- thats my point. If you still think archwing sucks after actually investing into the mode then thats fine and dandy. Not saying its the best thing ever either but it is enjoyable. You're just not going to enjoy it without working on them.

[(PSN)KingGuy420]

Archwing sucks if you don't put the work into modding for it.... Just like the normal game would.

Seriously, I despised archwing until I grinded for the mods, got good weapons, and forma'd them a few times. It's like night and day with how much I've turned around on it. Now I look for any excuse to run a few missions.

[SoulEchelon]

I enjoy it myself; enjoyed it since it debuted, though there were alot of problems. It's since been greatly improved.

I would suggest:

Archwing: Up to your playstyle. Elytron is a safe bet to go for, as it's purely about damage output and nuking. Amesha is the support archwing. Can shield/heal and grant invulnerability. Itzal is only really good at blazing through missions/slamming into walls over and over so I personally don't recommend it unless you're on the plains. Odonata is just....boring, really. Very middle of the road. It's not BAD, but doesn't stand out either.

Primary: Fluctus. While its beams are slow moving and not high range, it's very powerful and can hit multiple enemies at once thanks to its shape (Crescent). Runner up would be Velocitus, but only if you like sniping. If not, Imperator Vandal if it's available.

Melee: Centaur. While not the "coolest" looking, it has high attack speed and high crit chance. It's the best of all archwing melee.

Edited October 27, 2018 by SoulEchelon

[Dr_R_Eaper]

Why do I need to fly through 12 miles of broken freighter, through tiny corridors, pass all those slow-mines, pass at least 5-6 openings into space, just to be able to blow up one of three transports.  That wasn't fun, why make anyone do that, it doesn't even make sense.  I don't know the name of the mission off the top of my head, but I know you all know which one I'm talking about.

Then you have the ones when you fly through the ship to blow the reactor, I still don't enjoy doing them, but at least they make sense as to why I would be flying through the whole bloody ship first.

I've been playing on and off again for maybe three years now.  I've recently came back in to get ready for the switch release.  The last time I played the star charts where still rings around planets and Neptune? underwater AW missions had just been released.

Since I came back I've been going through slowly completed the start chart, yes I know it's like one of the first things I should have done, but I distract easily.  So I'm up to Europa now with a few later planets I still have access to from the before times, been completing anything I've missed before like AW missions, relays because they weren't a thing back then.  I played some of the underwater AW missions back in the day.  And after all that my Archwing gear is only around 10-13 and the only mods I have are given by the relay.

After all this I've been slowing warming up to the Grimmeer AW  missions, Corpus AW missions can still go die in a fire, but I don't feel as though I'm progressing I don't feel as though I'm getting stronger the say way I do with my Warframes. Now I get there isn't as many AW missions, but nothing about the Archwing makes me feel like a Space Ninja in Space.

I haven't tried the AW in PoE and that look liked it could have been fun, but that as is most of the AW gear from this topic is telling me is clan gated.

 

I'm sure I had point when I started writing this wall, but it got away from me.  I'm sure there is a way to grind out these lvls the same way we do in the normal missions, but nothing I've come across seems like it would it would work.

I don't know give the AW some sort  innate vacuum, you rarely want to be flying backwards to pick up something if you missed it, and the controls don't really lend them selves to turning on a dime. Backtracking on land is ok, but AW your always going forward.

Also consider upping the amount of enemies spawning, but a slightly lower level to compensate for there increase volume.  Mostly because I enjoy mowing down swarms of enemies, plus I imagine the increase number would help with the grind.

I would also say something about the Clan Gating, but that is probably best saved for a different topic.

 

Also getting rid of that bloody mission, no one deserves to go through that.

 

And now I will stop before I turn this in to a essay.

[SoulEchelon]

13 minutes ago, Dr_R_Eaper said:

Why do I need to fly through 12 miles of broken freighter, through tiny corridors, pass all those slow-mines, pass at least 5-6 openings into space, just to be able to blow up one of three transports.  That wasn't fun, why make anyone do that, it doesn't even make sense.  I don't know the name of the mission off the top of my head, but I know you all know which one I'm talking about.

Then you have the ones when you fly through the ship to blow the reactor, I still don't enjoy doing them, but at least they make sense as to why I would be flying through the whole bloody ship first.

I've been playing on and off again for maybe three years now.  I've recently came back in to get ready for the switch release.  The last time I played the star charts where still rings around planets and Neptune? underwater AW missions had just been released.

Since I came back I've been going through slowly completed the start chart, yes I know it's like one of the first things I should have done, but I distract easily.  So I'm up to Europa now with a few later planets I still have access to from the before times, been completing anything I've missed before like AW missions, relays because they weren't a thing back then.  I played some of the underwater AW missions back in the day.  And after all that my Archwing gear is only around 10-13 and the only mods I have are given by the relay.

After all this I've been slowing warming up to the Grimmeer AW  missions, Corpus AW missions can still go die in a fire, but I don't feel as though I'm progressing I don't feel as though I'm getting stronger the say way I do with my Warframes. Now I get there isn't as many AW missions, but nothing about the Archwing makes me feel like a Space Ninja in Space.

I haven't tried the AW in PoE and that look liked it could have been fun, but that as is most of the AW gear from this topic is telling me is clan gated.

 

I'm sure I had point when I started writing this wall, but it got away from me.  I'm sure there is a way to grind out these lvls the same way we do in the normal missions, but nothing I've come across seems like it would it would work.

I don't know give the AW some sort  innate vacuum, you rarely want to be flying backwards to pick up something if you missed it, and the controls don't really lend them selves to turning on a dime. Backtracking on land is ok, but AW your always going forward.

Also consider upping the amount of enemies spawning, but a slightly lower level to compensate for there increase volume.  Mostly because I enjoy mowing down swarms of enemies, plus I imagine the increase number would help with the grind.

I would also say something about the Clan Gating, but that is probably best saved for a different topic.

 

Also getting rid of that bloody mission, no one deserves to go through that.

 

And now I will stop before I turn this in to a essay.

 

Well, whether you enjoy something or not is subjective. The tight corridors in missions like the one you describe is fun to me, as it gives me a sense of urgency and speed. Having to quickly turn and maneuver around while shooting down enemies is fun - for me. If it's not for you then well, that's how it is.

From the sound of it though, you just aren't leveling your gear very well. Underwater archwing missions aren't great for leveling at all, and is probably one of the more boring parts of playing archwing. It's slow, the areas are confusing, and it loses its novelty fast. I would suggest doing archwing mobile defense missions to level up as well as get better mods. Neptune's Archwing mobile defense is one of the best ones as there are alot of enemies. You gotta keep in mind that you're leveling a whole new set of gear here, along with gathering whole new sets of mods for said year. With archwing, you're back to square one. You can't go in with the mentality of "I'll just nuke everything like I can with my warframe". It just won't happen - at least until you level up, get better gear, and get better mods - just like you had to do with your warframe. You seem to understand that though. You'd be amazed at how many don't.

As for gear, getting into a clan is one of the absolute easiest things to do in this game. There are many clans with practically open enrollment (Just gotta ask) that provide full clan facilities. Broframe, the clan I'm in, is one of them. Our philosophy right from the start years ago was: A clan for people who don't want to be in a clan. Our dojo is fully finished, furnished, and all research is available to everyone. There are no obligations (Though I think they do prune people who are inactive for too long, which is months. But you can just simply ask to rejoin again) so you basically have everything at your fingertips without having to do anything other than create a clan key. I'm not trying to recruit you, but as my clan is the best example I could think of, well there ya go. Look us up, or just P.M. me and I'll invite you myself.

The one problem you'll probably hit is dealing with the syndicates. Your best bet there, if you can't obtain the part you need on your own, is try trade chat. Easiest thing to do: Buy stuff you can get from the syndicates you're affiliated to and then sell them. Or check how much Syndicate Standing you have, then go to trade chat and then offer to sell any mod/archwing piece from *insert syndicate here*. General protip: When doing anything with trade chat, keep this up on your browser: https://warframe.market/ It'll stop you from selling or buying at bad prices. Just look up what you're about to sell/buy. Be mindful that "favored" sellers pop up at the top of the list, so scroll through them to see the full range of prices you should go for.

My suggestions for you are just like I said above. Elytron (since you like mowing down enemies, the nuke archwing fits), Fluctus, and Centaur.

 

As for everything else, yeah Archwing isn't perfect. Nowhere near perfect. I totally agree that it could use with a better vacuum. (I suggest here to fight mostly melee when possible, so you can instantly pick up whatever is dropped) They're still working on it for the update after Fortuna so that's something to look forward to.

TL;DR:

1. Try mobile defenses, especially Neptune's.

2. Get into a clan, it's easy. PM me if you need one. No obligations.

3. Dealing with Syndicates is the hardest part. Sell stuff on trade chat. Buy the pieces you need. https://warframe.market/ is your friend.

4. Elytron (for you since you want nuking), Fluctus, Centaur.

 

[Bristoling]

Progression with Archwing is the problem. 

- Enemies drop mods more or less at same rarity as with normal enemies but you do this content only once per planet, at best Archwing missions are <5% of your playtime if you do every mission only once, at worst <0.5%. So by the time you are on Jupiter with maxed weapons/frame and collection of mods, you might not even find a basic %damage mod or any elemental mods for your Archwing gun due to low amount of time spent in that mode.

- Finding mods in much bigger 3D space is super hard unless you already have maxed Itzal with a range mod and spam your 3 every pack you kill, which you won't have as a new player.

- Enemies level up every junction as normal. By the time you, as a new player, get to Saturn/Neptune with your second/third maxed Warframe and multiple weapons (some with potatoes/forma), you will have to survive level 25+ enemies with next to no mods and your level 12 Ordonata... Since the difficulty increases rapidly yet you don't get rewarded for grinding Archwing like normal missions (which unlock Junctions, new nodes etc.), you feel week and therefore frustrated with the mode.

- Controls are clunky. You can get used to them, sure, but it's still a chore. Especially if you've played any space sims before and have expectations on how space combat should look like.

- Even if controls weren't clunky, tilesets don't allow freedom of movement and no dogfighting is ever going to be possible on Corpus layouts, since you will always bump into things if you fly in one direction for longer then 1-2 seconds.

- New Archwings can be really expensive, like 7+ Nitain Extract for Amesha, or high Oxium costs of other jetpacks.

- Weapons can only be obtained from Syndicates, and usually you will need parts from Syndicates that are hostile to you, meaning that you can only trade for them, and not get them in a more natural way.

 

 

To fix this, we would need new nodes with new tilesets/mission types, alternative ways of obtaining weapon parts to craft them, rebalance of mission rewards (which are rather bad atm and not worth doing unless you level up stuff for MR), higher chance of rare Archwing/gun/melee mod drops from enemies, bigger "loot vacuum" radius or icons for mod drifting in space, new enemy types, some weapon/Archwing rebalance, and finally rework of the controls.

In all honesty, it is all a ton of work and seeing that Archwing already has a bad stigma, I don't think DE is going to allocate a lot of resources to do anything major to it. Its just not worth the investment. 

[Dr_R_Eaper]

@SoulEchelon

Yeah I get that some people enjoy the tight corridors, I don't mind doing them if necessary, it just that one mission type that really irks me.

The problem is I just really haven't been levelling my AW gear at all. It' been more of a do the mission and never come back deal.  Mentioning the underwater AW was more to give a idea of how much I've used the AW.  I don't remember there being a mobile defence mission type, must have been on one of the AW missions I did back in the before time.

I really should try and get in to a already established clan, for those blueprints. I ended up making my own, but didn't get very far.

Thanks for the tips.

 

I apparently also broke my keyboard with that last post, yay.

Never mind that last bit, technology just hates me.

Edited October 27, 2018 by Dr_R_Eaper

[SoulEchelon]

1 hour ago, Dr_R_Eaper said:

@SoulEchelon

Yeah I get that some people enjoy the tight corridors, I don't mind doing them if necessary, it just that one mission type that really irks me.

The problem is I just really haven't been levelling my AW gear at all. It' been more of a do the mission and never come back deal.  Mentioning the underwater AW was more to give a idea of how much I've used the AW.  I don't remember there being a mobile defence mission type, must have been on one of the AW missions I did back in the before time.

I really should try and get in to a already established clan, for those blueprints. I ended up making my own, but didn't get very far.

Thanks for the tips.

 

I apparently also broke my keyboard with that last post, yay.

Never mind that last bit, technology just hates me.

No worries. Archwing is a totally different way to play and the transition - both gameplay wise and damage output-wise - is extremely jarring. I definitely suggest those mobile defense missions. At the very least you won't have to worry as much about corridors other than going from point to point.

Also the offer's still on the table to join mine, but totally up to you.

[Lisztomaniac]

i just dont understand how AW came out so horribly wrong, when we've had zone of the enders for inspiration since PS2.