Dev Workshop: Riven Disposition Changes

[Marakai]

When we will get another disposition balance? This one did not touch obvious most-used weapons like Lanka or Rubico, which should get their disposition nerfed.

I thought rivens were supposed to be a way to make low-tier weapons get to high-tier weapons level by having higher dispo than high-tier weapons.

So how is lanka or Rubico not touched?

Are you so afraid of trade chat community outrage that you yourself have created with rivens?

If you balance dispo- DO IT ONCE, DO IT HARD. A 0.2 dispo change to akbolto while not touching Lanka is a joke.

[Guest]

25 minutes ago, Marakai said:

When we will get another disposition balance? This one did not touch obvious most-used weapons like Lanka or Rubico, which should get their disposition nerfed.

I thought rivens were supposed to be a way to make low-tier weapons get to high-tier weapons level by having higher dispo than high-tier weapons.

So how is lanka or Rubico not touched?

Are you so afraid of trade chat community outrage that you yourself have created with rivens?

If you balance dispo- DO IT ONCE, DO IT HARD. A 0.2 dispo change to akbolto while not touching Lanka is a joke.

As DE already said, disposition is based on popularity.

Really, outside of an Eidolon hunt, do you see a Lanka or Rubico anywhere?

[Marakai]

5 minutes ago, Datam4ss said:

As DE already said, disposition is based on popularity.

Really, outside of an Eidolon hunt, do you see a Lanka or Rubico anywhere?

Rubico actually yes, I see quite a lot. You are correct with Lanka though. 

Still nerfing akbolto riven "based on popularity" shows a flow in such concept. At some point in mid-game akbolto might be very popular. But at that point they are no being used for "future Riven usage". As such their popularity can be quite incorrect. 

While some meta weapons are locked behind high MR and their popularity might be less than akbolto but they are one of those "Riven fishing" weapons that are the aim of meta-players.

Imo they should adjust dispo based on weapon power instead of popularity.

Weapons like Amprex, Ignis Wraith, Zarr, Akstilleto, Rubico, Lanka, Arca Plasmor etc. should have lowest dispo as they are already meta weapons and don't need high dispo at all.

my opinion only.

[Guest]

Just now, Marakai said:

Rubico actually yes, I see quite a lot. You are correct with Lanka though. 

Still nerfing akbolto riven "based on popularity" shows a flow in such concept. At some point in mid-game akbolto might be very popular. But at that point they are no being used for "future Riven usage". As such their popularity can be quite incorrect. 

Imo they should adjust dispo based on weapon power instead of popularity.
 

Akbolto Prime is a thing. It is a popular gun. It uses the same riven.

I have not seen a rubico outside of plains/orb vallis unless some joker formaed his rubico prime. Even then it's not common there. Maybe your clan mates love it. I wouldn't know.

If they adjusted dispo based on power, of course I wouldn't mind the 5/5 dispo on my Cycron, but really, how do you quantify what weapon is powerful? Lato for example is weak and deserves a 5/5 dispo. The Vandal and Prime don't though.

[Marakai]

11 minutes ago, Datam4ss said:

Akbolto Prime is a thing. It is a popular gun. It uses the same riven.

I have not seen a rubico outside of plains/orb vallis unless some joker formaed his rubico prime. Even then it's not common there. Maybe your clan mates love it. I wouldn't know.

If they adjusted dispo based on power, of course I wouldn't mind the 5/5 dispo on my Cycron, but really, how do you quantify what weapon is powerful? Lato for example is weak and deserves a 5/5 dispo. The Vandal and Prime don't though.

I think after so many years of WF it's easly to quantify what weapons are powerful. I would check the following: 

1. ESO

2. Sorties 2-3

3. Arbitrations

4. T4 Fissuers 

5. Tier 3- Index

6. Tier 5 Bounties.

And suddenly I can bet we would see list that would include a very obvious choices: Ignis Wraith, Atterax, Lesion, Galantine prime, Gram prime, Zaws, Plague Kipath, Amprex, Akstilleto Prime, Zakti, Pox, Zarr, Khom, Arca Plasmor, Corinth, Tigris Prime, Valk-Hek, Tiberon Prime, Lenz, Lex Prime, Staticator etc.

I think anyone with at least basic end-game content knowledge knows 100% what weapons are meta and strongest ones. They are being used 9/10 time in "end-game" content because they are strongest. In different scenarios but overall end-game content is dominatied by them. You know most of them by names because you see them all the time there. 

While most of us don't remember names of weapons below MR 8 because you never see them again later (with some exceptions like Hek or Atomos). Then from MR 9 you have Ignis Wraith and everything changes and moving forward - you know what is best, because it simply is.

And so there is no point further making them even more hard-meta by giving them high dispo. They should get lowest or low at best because they already make most content trivial. 

 

[RhythmScript]

Not to be this guy, but there’s a financial reality at play here that I think a lot of people are missing. If Riven dispos are based on power rather than popularity, then Rivens don’t do their most important job, which is to keep you buying and crafting weapons and purchasing more and more slots and upgrades by constantly mixing up what the definition of “best” is. If Rivens are balanced such that every (Rivened) weapon is equally powerful and viable all the time (i.e. an imaginary perfectly balanced game of Warframe) there are plenty of weapons you won’t bother to use. You’ll discard old weapons as you get new weapons, and then just keep the new weapons. Rivens are meant to be a strong incentive for you keep (or re-acquire) old weapons. They’re meant to be a reason to use Hek INSTEAD of Arca Plasmor; if you already have Arca Plasmor and you sold your Hek to free up a slot 2 years ago, a Hek Riven won’t be a reason to STOP using Arca Plasmor. Meta consolidates, more weapons are tossed to the wayside as “MR Fodder” and discarded at 30. Fewer slots, fewer forma, fewer catalysts, fewer skins, and fewer hours spent grinding Warframe. By the time you’re at a progression point where you can acquire and use Rivens, you’ve already got best-in-game weapons—if the game is perfectly balanced so that those weapons are just as good as the old weapons, you buy a Riven for what you’ve already invested in and you never go back to all the old, forgotten MR fodder weapons that Rivens were SUPPOSED to breathe new life into.

This is the bottom-line problem with the idea of “respecting player investment”. If DE does that forever, the kinds of for-sale power upgrades and cosmetics that represent their bread and butter income are reduced to being for a tiny subset of meta weapons. The whole idea with Rivens is to try and get usage up across the board of different weapons because it encourages more player investment in for-sale items by increasing the range of things they will buy them FOR.

[Space.Cowboy]

I agree with taking sentinel rivens out of weapon rolls because it was usually a let down getting one from sorties. However, I would suggest having veiled sentinel rivens made specifically as a reward for alerts, bounties, events, etc.  So, you could still get them if you wanted or just choose to pass em up if you dont.

[Space.Cowboy]

On 2018-12-20 at 11:17 AM, RhythmScript said:

Not to be this guy, but there’s a financial reality at play here that I think a lot of people are missing. If Riven dispos are based on power rather than popularity, then Rivens don’t do their most important job, which is to keep you buying and crafting weapons and purchasing more and more slots and upgrades by constantly mixing up what the definition of “best” is. If Rivens are balanced such that every (Rivened) weapon is equally powerful and viable all the time (i.e. an imaginary perfectly balanced game of Warframe) there are plenty of weapons you won’t bother to use. You’ll discard old weapons as you get new weapons, and then just keep the new weapons. Rivens are meant to be a strong incentive for you keep (or re-acquire) old weapons. They’re meant to be a reason to use Hek INSTEAD of Arca Plasmor; if you already have Arca Plasmor and you sold your Hek to free up a slot 2 years ago, a Hek Riven won’t be a reason to STOP using Arca Plasmor. Meta consolidates, more weapons are tossed to the wayside as “MR Fodder” and discarded at 30. Fewer slots, fewer forma, fewer catalysts, fewer skins, and fewer hours spent grinding Warframe. By the time you’re at a progression point where you can acquire and use Rivens, you’ve already got best-in-game weapons—if the game is perfectly balanced so that those weapons are just as good as the old weapons, you buy a Riven for what you’ve already invested in and you never go back to all the old, forgotten MR fodder weapons that Rivens were SUPPOSED to breathe new life into.

This is the bottom-line problem with the idea of “respecting player investment”. If DE does that forever, the kinds of for-sale power upgrades and cosmetics that represent their bread and butter income are reduced to being for a tiny subset of meta weapons. The whole idea with Rivens is to try and get usage up across the board of different weapons because it encourages more player investment in for-sale items by increasing the range of things they will buy them FOR.

You are partially correct. However, a lot of players will still get the new weapons simply for the MR experience or if they happen to get a riven for it and wanna try it out. I have personally potatoed and formad weapons simply because I got a riven for them and saw they had a high disposition. Then I ended up hating it still and just shelving it. Also, some weapons just have a niche use like I use the glaxion to shatter corpses to pop an extra desecrate on their chunks. Some weapons you just can't save though and are really only meant as a stepping stone to something better and just MR fodder. 

[Jarriaga]

Waiting for updates and new disposition changes.

[Peter]

Nerf by popularity is a dumb idea, snipers aren't "popular", the developers force you to use sniper on Eidolon, you should discard the use of weapons in open worlds, poor mechanics forces you to use this type of weapon.

Disposition of riven does not bring any benefit just harm, is something that should not even exist, all rivens should be 1.0, want to change something? do it directly on the weapon, if you continue with this dumb system all the interesting weapons will take nerf because this is the reality, you have not balanced anything you are only spoiling the little good content that has.

Soma prime low disposition? bring it to 1, done. But nerf disposition of snipers because they are of obligatory use in Eidolons is very stupid.

I will say no more, you have feedback, if you do not want to apply the problem is yours, one hour we will have some game competitor, we will see if you will have the courage to play with other people's money just like now.

[(XBOX)GrandSageDragon]

On 2018-12-20 at 10:39 AM, Datam4ss said:

Akbolto Prime is a thing. It is a popular gun. It uses the same riven.

I have not seen a rubico outside of plains/orb vallis unless some joker formaed his rubico prime. Even then it's not common there. Maybe your clan mates love it. I wouldn't know.

If they adjusted dispo based on power, of course I wouldn't mind the 5/5 dispo on my Cycron, but really, how do you quantify what weapon is powerful? Lato for example is weak and deserves a 5/5 dispo. The Vandal and Prime don't though.

I use Rubicon p everywhere so yeah it's a must have for profit and eidolons but otherwise it was nerfed because of its popularity in trade chat that's how they nerf it because of trade chat and thanks to that opticor will get buffed again since no one wants it now after profit came out only Rubico are wanted 

[bibmobello]

On 2018-12-09 at 5:53 AM, Licandrien said:

You have no idea what you're talking about.

And really DE, a buzlok nerf? I'm sure that one guy I saw in trids using it is gonna be real upset.

These changes are just to appease the whiners, to "lower" prices. How could a gun, that is only relevant in specific content and was near useless outside of it ( bar flavor ) need a nerf, and that's what you did with a bunch of them, like you did with Chroma, and people are still 1shotting the eidolons. Remind me what that nerf accomplished again? 

Nice that you didn't even address the insanity of the kuva prices, that pretty much forces any riven dealers to get boosters and it's still crap.

Maybe if the kuva costs were actually decent the prices would drop on their own since you don't need to farm that long? just a thought, instead of trying to nerf dispo for the sake of a forum criers to look good.

In fact most of the prices are more a speculation about the weapon than a value based on their usability! Yes kohm is great on the simulacrum, try that on long survivals! After 60 minutes you will run out of ammo every minute! after level 140 most  firearms become inefficient, only melee and snipers(even without a stupid riven) are usable on higher levels!

i asked few guys why they pay thousand of plat for a riven... Do you wanna know the truth?!?!?!?!

Because they can deal more damage during star chart missions and sorties but to reach higher levels on endless missions....They don't use viral+HM because they get less damage at the end of the mission...

This is the "damage obsessed" syndrome...

[Falconer777]

10 часов назад, bibmobello сказал:

i asked few guys why they pay thousand of plat for a riven... Do you wanna know the truth?!?!?!?!

Because they can deal more damage during star chart missions and sorties

Yes it's true. And precisely for this, IMHO, Riven and were put into the game. 

An easy solution to a difficult endgame problem. Instead of adding content - adding mods that allow you to create a competitive element and a kind of "endgame". At the same time, the rivens create a very good source of income for DE. But, as time has shown, this did not solve the endgame problem. Of course. Yes, the pursuit of Riven is still thriving in the game, but there are no fewer complaints about the “content drought”. Because it is still a tool, not a content. And there were serious problems with the "gray platinum". 

Цитата

 but to reach higher levels on endless missions....

And how many people are doing endless missions now?