Inconsistencies of Warframes

[CrimeHole]

As the tittle insinuates, some warframes have a huge gap of inconsistencies when it comes to their background. 

A beautiful example of this would be valkyr.
Valkyr's base model was introduced  with an altered appearance AFTER the corpus/Alad V's experiments, which left her with rectangular shackles on her wrists---also the iconic neck and head adorning (and or "shackles") as well as the apparent rods pierced on her legs. 

Later, her Gersemi skin was introduced; "Before Alad V, before the experiments, there was Gersemi Valkyr." 
Which implies, this was  her appearance before Alad. in other words, her---by lore---original base model. 

But then the prime comes out CLEARLY modeled after the "Post Alad V" of her skin, instead of her original base model being, again, by lore description Gersemi Valkyr. 
This makes absolutely no sense, why would it be modeled after post Alad V? Aren't primes the FIRST? By lore they are, so why wasn't she modeled primed after Gersemi? It should of been Valkyr Gersemi prime skin. But it wasn't. This just bothers me personally due to lore inconsistencies and aesthetics, but that's just me. 

Now, with that out of the way---Revenant. With his inevitable priming i would SERIOUSLY love it if they stick to his lore. In this case, he was affected by the sentient energy which altered his appearance. Thus, his prime should resemble his base model slightly somehow, considering we don't know to what extent his aesthetics were altered from his pre-sentient looks. Again, i personally believe these details shouldn't be disregarded taking into account how Warframe implements its lore in-game. 

On a side note, while we're in the topic of inconsistency. 
What the hell is up with Limbo's upcoming deluxe? that should be revenant's skin not limbo's, you're losing the classy and unique look that limbo resembles, although i know that deluxes dont necessarily stick to theme but this one is too sentient-ish and so thus should go to revenant. 
BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE! 
With all the new frames coming out with a backstory ex: Khora, Limbo, Mirage, Atlas, Titania, Revenant, Octavia, Chroma....Etc, shouldn't all frames be greeted at some point with their own in-game side mission? idk seems fair and fitting. I'd love to know Frost's background. Oh and who can forget, DE keep dishing out primes but no trailers >:c but thats just a side-rant. 

Aaaaand done. 

Edited November 18, 2018 by CrimeHole

[NinthAria]

Valkyr is a warrior borne out of torture and rage. The Orokin tried torture--probably extensively--as a way to create and control the warframes. I don't see the inconsistency here.

Alad V is not the only person in the universe capable of torture.

[IgnatiuSgaming]

Agree but concept every deluxe skin is must different with lore or theme of skin but so far I still agree and don't care about concept of skin because it's creation not about lore if you want follow lore,creation will be limited and the skin will be worse than without following lore

But I agree with Limbo concept who copy pasta Revenant,and nidus skin too and Garuda too who almost copy pasta from other game (Dota2 especially) 

Still hoping they changed limbo deluxe skin concept or stick with Atlas Deluxe and Equinox deluxe

[CrimeHole]

17 minutes ago, NinthAria said:

Valkyr is a warrior borne out of torture and rage. The Orokin tried torture--probably extensively--as a way to create and control the warframes. I don't see the inconsistency here.

Alad V is not the only person in the universe capable of torture.

You missed the whole point i made. 
Her prime description LITERALLY tells you "A proud fighter emerges unscarred by time or malice." AKA, BEFORE Alad V. 
The theme of rage and torture came AFTER Alad, as i stated. Also, yes they were tortured but this didn't affect their appearance because it isn't hinted in the game, only their psyche. But that's besides the point, even IF the torture affected their aesthetics then Gersemi should of been the base model to prime. NOT her current prime. NOT post-alad model. 

Edited November 18, 2018 by CrimeHole

[aerelm]

49 minutes ago, CrimeHole said:

But then the prime comes out CLEARLY modeled after the "Post Alad V" of her skin, instead of her original base model being, again, by lore description Gersemi Valkyr. 
This makes absolutely no sense, why would it be modeled after post Alad V? Aren't primes the FIRST? By lore they are, so why wasn't she modeled primed after Gersemi? It should of been Valkyr Gersemi prime skin. But it wasn't. This just bothers me personally due to lore inconsistencies and aesthetics, but that's just me.

Well, consider the possibility that Valkyr Prime is not based on post-Alad Valkyr, and it's instead the other way around - Alad's Valkyr is based on the Prime.

It'd make sense for the frame's lore (as well as visual design) and also quite fit Alad V's character if the whole experiment was an attempt at recreating a "prime" Valkyr out of Gersemi based on old records and documents on original Valkyr of the Orokin era.

Edited November 18, 2018 by aerelm

[CrimeHole]

8 minutes ago, aerelm said:

Well, consider the possibility that the Prime is not based on post-Alad Valkyr, and it's instead the other way around - Alad's Valkyr is based on the Prime.

It'd make sense for the frame's lore (as well as visual design) and also quite fit Alad V's character if the whole experiment was an attempt at recreating a "prime" Valkyr out of Gersemi based on old records and documents on original Valkyr from the Orokin era.

Even so, the current prime model wouldn't correlate. Because of the disconnect between the Gersemi and the prime skin (which we know are the first (prime) thus, her original appearance) 
But then again, you stated if that were a possibility. Which according to in-game lore and descriptions wouldn't make sense. I do see where you're coming from though. 
Don't even get me started on how we build post-valkyr with her shackles and all. Like, we literally built a faulty frame. Also her powers come from her rage which would be assumed from her torture etc from alad v experiments. Wouldn't the prime have different abilities? Idk man this just doesn't make sense. 

Edited November 18, 2018 by CrimeHole

[Zeclem]

13 minutes ago, CrimeHole said:

You missed the whole point i made. 
Her prime description LITERALLY tells you "A proud fighter emerges unscarred by time or malice." AKA, BEFORE Alad V. 
The theme of rage and torture came AFTER Alad, as i stated. Also, yes they were tortured but this didn't affect their appearance because it isn't hinted in the game, only their psyche. But that's besides the point, even IF the torture affected their aesthetics then Gersemi should of been the base model to prime. NOT her current prime. NOT post-alad model. 

heres the deal. non prime warframes are made by the crappier tech of the tenno after the war. gersemi was that. the theme of rage and torture did not came after alad v, we have nothing in game telling us so. closest that we got is "experiments got her scarred" but that does not exactly mean she wasnt the angry cat lady she is now. 

[TARINunit9]

1 hour ago, CrimeHole said:

But then the prime comes out CLEARLY modeled after the "Post Alad V" of her skin, instead of her original base model

I've gone over her design, and no, the Prime's body is based on Gersemi, not on Valkyr. The Prime helmet is based on Valkyr, but considering those helmets get more and more ornate with every release to the point it doesn't actually look like Valkyr much I let it slide

As for this:

25 minutes ago, CrimeHole said:

You missed the whole point i made. 
Her prime description LITERALLY tells you "A proud fighter emerges unscarred by time or malice." AKA, BEFORE Alad V. 
The theme of rage and torture came AFTER Alad, as i stated.

Someone else had to explain it to me: while Gersemi's visuals are based on a cat, Valkyr's powers are supposedly based on Vikings. Grappling hooks to scale walls, Warcries for obvious reasons, smashing enemies with shields, and so on. Gersemi is a nordic word, so I can accept Gersemi, Valkyr, and Prime all using those powers

Edited November 18, 2018 by TARINunit9

[CrimeHole]

 

4 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

I've gone over her design, and no, the Prime's body is based on Gersemi, not on Valkyr. The Prime helmet is based on Valkyr, but considering those helmets get more and more ornate with every release to the point it doesn't actually look like Valkyr much I let it slide

That's quite possibly true. I could see the mere resemble of her prime body and gersemi's. Although as you pointed out, her helmet is based on post-valkyr but it could be disregarded considering how much they change the helmet for prime vs non primes. Ex: Hydroid. 
What really bothers me is the shackles, they gave her prime wrist shackles that play part of her #4's ability effects. Like why.....?
Even Gersemi doesn't have those. 

[TARINunit9]

1 minute ago, CrimeHole said:

What really bothers me is the shackles, they gave her prime wrist shackles

According to the lore they're just ribbons. Like how Excalibur Umbra has a scarf on top of any Syandana you give him

Obviously in real life it's a reference to Valkyr's shackles, but the lore reason is that it's a coincidence

[CrimeHole]

15 minutes ago, Zeclem said:

heres the deal. non prime warframes are made by the crappier tech of the tenno after the war. gersemi was that. the theme of rage and torture did not came after alad v, we have nothing in game telling us so. closest that we got is "experiments got her scarred" but that does not exactly mean she wasnt the angry cat lady she is now. 

But that also doesn't mean that she was as such prior to alad. (addressing the "angry cat lady she is now")
She could of been much more brawl-based with abilities less reliant off torture, "scared (non-prime description)" and scarring. 
Who knows who she was prior to gersemi. 

[Beartornado]

2 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

According to the lore they're just ribbons. Like how Excalibur Umbra has a scarf on top of any Syandana you give him

Obviously in real life it's a reference to Valkyr's shackles, but the lore reason is that it's a coincidence

I think it's fair to say that perhaps Valkyr was always a tortured berserker. After The Sacrifice we certainly know most Warframes may have been created under suspicious circumstances. It's not unreasonable that the Orokin would have shackles for her too. As for how she ended up suffering the same way with Alad it's just the Emil effect. Valkyr's existence is suffering and anger, recurring across millenia.

Edited November 18, 2018 by Beartornado

[CrimeHole]

1 minute ago, TARINunit9 said:

According to the lore they're just ribbons. Like how Excalibur Umbra has a scarf on top of any Syandana you give him

Obviously in real life it's a reference to Valkyr's shackles, but the lore reason is that it's a coincidence

Valkyr in real life? who? The lore still contradicts it self. The shackles shouldn't be there, and the ribbons either. Gersemi didn't have those. You could argue that Nekro's binds were only for his non-prime BUT his prime did come with those flappers by default so.... idk man. 

[CrimeHole]

1 minute ago, Beartornado said:

I think it's fair to say that perhaps Valkyr was always a tortured berserker. After The Sacrifice we certainly know most Warframes may have been created under suspicious circumstances. It's not unreasonable that the Orokin would have shackles for her too. As for how she ended up suffering the same way with Alad it's just the Emil effect. Valkyr's existence is suffering and anger, recurring across millenia.

Good point. I do believe its fair to say. But i still feel like there's some inconsistencies in terms of aesthetics. Body based on gersemi as someone pointed and helmet more adorned based off non-prime valkyr's. 

[ModernGreg]

It really bugs me how often you said "sentinel" when you clearly mean "sentient". 

Anyway, I understand your point and I've had those thoughts too. But I think some people are making good arguments that she could've been tortured by the Orokin, too. 

[TARINunit9]

10 minutes ago, CrimeHole said:

Valkyr in real life? who?

As in, the developers sitting behind a computer who deliberately designed Prime to have ribbons that looked like Valkyr's shackles

11 minutes ago, CrimeHole said:

The lore still contradicts it self. The shackles shouldn't be there, and the ribbons either. Gersemi didn't have those.

Not really. Excalibur Umbra has a scarf that Excalibur Prime and Excalibur Dex don't have, so what's wrong with Gersemi not having Prime's ribbons?

[CrimeHole]

3 minutes ago, ModernGreg said:

It really bugs me how often you said "sentinel" when you clearly mean "sentient". 

Anyway, I understand your point and I've had those thoughts too. But I think some people are making good arguments that she could've been tortured by the Orokin, too. 

Oh lol my bad. I gotcha right now.~
Thanks.

[CrimeHole]

4 minutes ago, ModernGreg said:

"sentinel" when you clearly mean "sentient".

Oh lol my bad. I gotcha right now.~
Thanks.

[CrimeHole]

7 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

Not really. Excalibur Umbra has a scarf that Excalibur Prime and Excalibur Dex don't have, so what's wrong with Gersemi not having Prime's ribbons?

The problem being that excal umbra is not the same as a prime or a non prime. He's a waframe of his own league. The Umbra, i think DE confirmed that he wasn't going to be the only Umbra line of frames. 
Therefore, he is allowed to have his lil' scarf. 

Edited November 18, 2018 by CrimeHole

[TARINunit9]

28 minutes ago, CrimeHole said:

The problem being that excal umbra is not the same as a prime or a non prime. He's a waframe of his own league. The Umbra, i think DE confirmed that he wasn't going to be the only Umbra line of frames. 
Therefore, he is allowed to have his lil' scarf. 

Exactly!

Prime was in a league of her own compared to Gersemi, so Gersemi doesn't get the ribbons. Then Valkyr happened, and she gets a completely different thing bolted to her arms

[stormy505]

2 hours ago, CrimeHole said:

As the tittle insinuates, some warframes have a huge gap of inconsistencies when it comes to their background. 

A beautiful example of this would be valkyr.
Valkyr's base model was introduced  with an altered appearance AFTER the corpus/Alad V's experiments, which left her with rectangular shackles on her wrists---also the iconic neck and head adorning (and or "shackles") as well as the apparent rods pierced on her legs. 

Later, her Gersemi skin was introduced; "Before Alad V, before the experiments, there was Gersemi Valkyr." 
Which implies, this was  her appearance before Alad. in other words, her---by lore---original base model. 

But then the prime comes out CLEARLY modeled after the "Post Alad V" of her skin, instead of her original base model being, again, by lore description Gersemi Valkyr. 
This makes absolutely no sense, why would it be modeled after post Alad V? Aren't primes the FIRST? By lore they are, so why wasn't she modeled primed after Gersemi? It should of been Valkyr Gersemi prime skin. But it wasn't. This just bothers me personally due to lore inconsistencies and aesthetics, but that's just me. 

Now, with that out of the way---Revenant. With his inevitable priming i would SERIOUSLY love it if they stick to his lore. In this case, he was affected by the sentient energy which altered his appearance. Thus, his prime should resemble his base model slightly somehow, considering we don't know to what extent his aesthetics were altered from his pre-sentient looks. Again, i personally believe these details shouldn't be disregarded taking into account how Warframe implements its lore in-game. 

On a side note, while we're in the topic of inconsistency. 
What the hell is up with Limbo's upcoming deluxe? that should be revenant's skin not limbo's, you're losing the classy and unique look that limbo resembles, although i know that deluxes dont necessarily stick to theme but this one is too sentient-ish and so thus should go to revenant. 
BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE! 
With all the new frames coming out with a backstory ex: Khora, Limbo, Mirage, Atlas, Titania, Revenant, Octavia, Chroma....Etc, shouldn't all frames be greeted at some point with their own in-game side mission? idk seems fair and fitting. I'd love to know Frost's background. Oh and who can forget, DE keep dishing out primes but no trailers >:c but thats just a side-rant. 

Aaaaand done. 

tbh the way i see it. i just treat primes as not cannon. cause quite a few brake the lore. it will help you sleep at night

[NinthAria]

1 hour ago, CrimeHole said:

But that also doesn't mean that she was as such prior to alad. (addressing the "angry cat lady she is now")
She could of been much more brawl-based with abilities less reliant off torture, "scared (non-prime description)" and scarring. 
Who knows who she was prior to gersemi. 

It doesn't mean that she wasn't, either. "Unscarred by time or malice" doesn't mean "unscarred." The warframes originated--go figure--out of a war, and the very process of becoming a warframe is, by all accounts, intensely traumatic on both a physical and mental level. It can also be assumed that who they were originally has an effect on the kind of warframe they become--key examples being Excalibur (Umbra) and Mirage--so it's entirely possible Valkyr was an angry, tortured soul before becoming a warframe.

Ultimately we don't know for sure one way or the other (and I doubt we will, at least any time soon), which makes calling it an inconsistency somewhat premature.

[Firetempest]

Over six years of building and changing the game and tweaking lore as they came up with new ideas.

There are inconsistencies and game reasoning. The Deluxe skins are non-canon and made just to look cool and candy-cane scythes.

Trying to piece it all together is possible with enough BS, just look at the multiple official zelda timeline charts created to appease some fans.

take the mst3k mantra.

“If you’re wondering how Valkyr screams without a mouth
And other science facts
Then repeat to yourself ‘It’s just a game,
I should really just relax.’”

[CrimeHole]

50 minutes ago, Firetempest said:

Over six years of building and changing the game and tweaking lore as they came up with new ideas.

There are inconsistencies and game reasoning. The Deluxe skins are non-canon and made just to look cool and candy-cane scythes.

Trying to piece it all together is possible with enough BS, just look at the multiple official zelda timeline charts created to appease some fans.

take the mst3k mantra.

“If you’re wondering how Valkyr screams without a mouth
And other science facts
Then repeat to yourself ‘It’s just a game,
I should really just relax.’”

*Valkyr Main SCREECH*

[spirit_of_76]

4 hours ago, NinthAria said:

Valkyr is a warrior borne out of torture and rage. The Orokin tried torture--probably extensively--as a way to create and control the warframes. I don't see the inconsistency here.

 Alad V is not the only person in the universe capable of torture

the inconsistency is her health pool it should be higher there are casters with more base health