Fallen_Echo Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 10 hours ago, [DE]Drew said: Dread Mirror Added an 8 meter area-of-effect stagger when reaching a target with Dread Mirror (not affected by Mods). Added a small noise movement to the Dread Mirror shield. Increased enemy insta-kill threshold from 35% to 40% (i.e. enemy is insta-killed if it’s below 40% of Health). Charging Dread Mirror projectile while in the air will let you hover for a few seconds. Dread Mirror animations play faster with Natural Talent equipped. Blood Altar Added an 8 meter area-of-effect stagger when impaling an enemy with Blood Altar (not affected by Mods). Increased Blood Altar heal radius from 6 meters to 8 meters. Blood Altar animations play faster with Natural Talent equipped. With the bolded out and underlined parts im sure that now Garuda is the only frame what gains additional advantage out from a single mod. Dont want to nitpick but is this really needed? Shouldnt the base animations play faster by default? This change is effectively marks natural talent as a mandatory mod, its not just a simple bugfix the wording and placement ensures that, why was this necesseary? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catalyst22 Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 28 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said: With the bolded out and underlined parts im sure that now Garuda is the only frame what gains additional advantage out from a single mod. I'm pretty sure that Natural Talent works on other frames to. Sure, there are some abilities that aren't affected, but a majority are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krc473 Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 34 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said: This change is effectively marks natural talent as a mandatory mod, its not just a simple bugfix the wording and placement ensures that, why was this necesseary? I imagine it is just worded wrong. It just means "now affected by Natural Talent". The animation for Mag's Crush would fit the description above. It is faster with Natural Talent than without. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Autongnosis Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 il y a 35 minutes, Fallen_Echo a dit : With the bolded out and underlined parts im sure that now Garuda is the only frame what gains additional advantage out from a single mod. Dont want to nitpick but is this really needed? Shouldnt the base animations play faster by default? This change is effectively marks natural talent as a mandatory mod, its not just a simple bugfix the wording and placement ensures that, why was this necesseary? Let me fully understand here. You are worried about natural talent doing what it says it does? Uhm... What? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kainosh Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 5 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said: Garuda is the only frame what gains additional advantage out from a single mod What made you think that NT is "Garuda only" mod? It works on every other frames with casting time. Limbo, Frost, Gara, Necros....to name a few. Should all these warframes become faster by default now? Not really. They are usable without NT. NT is like a Projectile speed mod for rifle. Makes it a bit more convenient, but will never be "mandatory". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelusine Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 Shouldnt the base animations play faster by default? I noticed that tons of people played her without Natural Talent even before the changes despite her kps being already incredibly impacted by that mod. Hinting toward the fact that the default animation is mostly fine but that people who can/want to play faster get what they should get out of the mod. I don't think it's an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fallen_Echo Posted November 30, 2018 Author Share Posted November 30, 2018 1 hour ago, catalyst22 said: I'm pretty sure that Natural Talent works on other frames to. Sure, there are some abilities that aren't affected, but a majority are. Natural talent works on pretty much all skills, it just the changes explicitly say that these skills now work even faster with natural talent than before. 1 hour ago, krc473 said: imagine it is just worded wrong. It just means "now affected by Natural Talent". The animation for Mag's Crush would fit the description above. It is faster with Natural Talent than without. But that would be a bugfix because natural talent supposedly affects all skills, but its listed as a change. 1 hour ago, Autongnosis said: Let me fully understand here. You are worried about natural talent doing what it says it does? Uhm... What? Nope, it says that these skills now play their animation faster with NT than before, implifying that they buffed up Garuda to make NT work better with her skills tham before. 1 hour ago, Kainosh said: What made you think that NT is "Garuda only" mod? It works on every other frames with casting time. Limbo, Frost, Gara, Necros....to name a few. Read it again carefully, the quote states that garuda's animations now play faster when ypu have NT equipped. If NT would have been bugged and not affecting her skills it would been listed in the bugfixes but its in the changes what means that Garuda ontop of the basic speed bonus you gain from NT now gets even more on that two skills. 36 minutes ago, Shelusine said: Shouldnt the base animations play faster by default? I noticed that tons of people played her without Natural Talent even before the changes despite her kps being already incredibly impacted by that mod. Hinting toward the fact that the default animation is mostly fine but that people who can/want to play faster get what they should get out of the mod. I don't think it's an issue I dont have an issue with who wants to play faster or slower i have an issue what you can read there. Before this patch im sure that NT affected all of her skills already so this change is not a bugfix but a buff. NT now makes her skills even faster than before the patch. For example using this wording if i write down this: Changelist "Loki moves faster with Armored Agility equipped." This means that Loki now gains more speed bonus from the mod than before. Same case here, Dread mirror animations play faster with NT equipped means she gains additional bonus on top of the regular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kontrollo Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 (edited) I can confirm that before the patch, Natural Talent didn't speed up her 1 pounce or 2 dash, nor their respective animations afterwards. If it did anything at all there, it wasn't noticeable. Now it does. Edited November 30, 2018 by Kontrollo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krc473 Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said: Nope, it says that these skills now play their animation faster with NT than before, implifying that they buffed up Garuda to make NT work better with her skills tham before. That is not what it says. At no point do they specify that it was compared with NT prior to the patch. All it says is: Quote // animations play faster with Natural Talent equipped. To me, that does not indicate what you are suggesting. All they mean is "NT now applies to said abilities". I could agree it is worded badly. I cannot agree that it means what you suggest it does. 23 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said: But that would be a bugfix because natural talent supposedly affects all skills, but its listed as a change. NT has never been said to apply to all abilities. EDIT to add the example: As of update 19.2.0 a number of abilities were changed to be affected by NT. Spoiler Casting speed Mods (Natural Talent) now affect: Loki’s Decoy Chroma’s Vex Armor Saryn’s Spores and Toxic Lash Excalibur’s Radial Blind Ivara’s Artemis Bow (while ziplining) and Navigator (while ziplining), Quiver, and Prowl Inaros’ Scarab Swarm Oberon’s Smite Ash’s Smoke Screen Equinox’s Metamorphosis Edited November 30, 2018 by krc473 Fun issues with formatting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelusine Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 I dont have an issue with who wants to play faster or slower i have an issue what you can read there. Oh, the grammar. To my knowledge it's a bug fix or tweak. In the past the leap aspect wasn't affected, the rest was tho. NT has also never affected every warframe abilities equally in my testings, some aspect are affected some are not and it's kind of a case by case thing. I assume they changed here to make her gameplay more consistent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Autongnosis Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 il y a 28 minutes, Fallen_Echo a dit : Nope, it says that these skills now play their animation faster with NT than before, implifying that they buffed up Garuda to make NT work better with her skills tham before. Read it again carefully, the quote states that garuda's animations now play faster when ypu have NT equipped. Ok so your problem is with the wording. I have tested NT on garuda doing back to back checks before since i found her 4th unusable without it. I can guarantee you that NT did absolutely nothing for her 1 and 2 before this hotfix. Now the way it's written is definitely misleading, i agree with that. But the change, as far as i've tested, is purely making NT apply normally to said skills. I guess they listed it in the changes because maybe the original version of not applying NT to her 1 and 2 wasn't a bug but a design choice? We'll never know. That said doing checks last night the skills receive the same buff from NT as everything else, at least from what i can tell. +50% speed. No more than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teridax68 Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 I may be mistaken, but from the looks of it the changes simply indicate that the mods are actually affected by Natural Talent, which I don't think was the case before. As for whether animations should play out faster by default, I completely agree: not only do I believe Natural Talent is a band-aid to a problem that shouldn't exist (if animations are negatively impacting on gameplay, they're already a problem), but in general there are a lot of abilities that I don't think need animations at all. Dread Mirror may need a quick one because they're an innate dash, but does Blood Altar really need one? Do Bloodletting or Seeking Talons need to lock Garuda out of her weapon usage or movement while playing out? There are so many more cases of abilities that interrupt the player's actions or movement that simply do not need to, and I think the better solution should be to directly improve those abilities, rather than just arbitrarily hook them up to an inconsistently applied mod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fallen_Echo Posted November 30, 2018 Author Share Posted November 30, 2018 Okay i stand corrected, if any mod is around please lock this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erl-King Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 Problem with Garuda's inability to cast immediately after another charged ability is still present. It is very annoying as it prevents quick 4-1 combo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koryfunny Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 26 minutes ago, Erl-King said: Problem with Garuda's inability to cast immediately after another charged ability is still present. It is very annoying as it prevents quick 4-1 combo. tbh I kinda agree with that! the changes are great and all, but I wish I could simply chain charging 1 right after releasing 4 without delay.... better yet - if I used 4 while hovering, I should be able to charge 1 right after while continue hovering! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyori Posted December 2, 2018 Share Posted December 2, 2018 Which made you think why they make casting ability so slow to being with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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