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suggestion: reveal all mod details in codex


xX-Kuro-Xx
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All mod details are available on the Internet wiki. So "hiding" the mod details in the codex before they are found in-game is not hiding anything. It's just making us not use the in-game codex. 

If all mod details were revealed inside the codex, I'd probably spend a bunch of time digging through mods in the codex, trying to understand what I should go try to find. That seems like a good thing for the game. 

Mods I don't have should still be greyed out, but I should see and be able to search their full card text. 

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A lot of problems determining what exactly a mod does could be fixed by DE simply using standardized wording.

For example. Up until the point of Adaptation. "Resistance" has always referred to the base modifier of a damage type and it's always been additive not Multiplicative. Other effects like Primed mods can say "Bonus Damage"  to specify Multiplicative interaction while "Additional Damage" specifies Additive interaction.

DE is not only inconsistent with how their mods function but also how their worded.

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5 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

For example. Up until the point of Adaptation. "Resistance" has always referred to the base modifier of a damage type and it's always been additive not Multiplicative. Other effects like Primed mods can say "Bonus Damage"  to specify Multiplicative interaction while "Additional Damage" specifies Additive interaction.

The problem with damage is there's a hidden "base damage" stat which the game doesn't show you, but which all additional damage types are based on. In theory it's the sum of all physical damage types, but you can mod individual physical damage types without affecting base damage. Near as I can tell, some mods boost base damage, some mods are calculated off base damage, some mods are calculated off an individual physical stat, some mods independently add a flat damage number (like Covert Lethality). There are a lot of types to cover, and you want to be careful with words like "bonus" and "additional" because they mean the same thing and their significance is hard to keep straight. It's like... Is "super" more than "ultra" and "hyper?"

I'd argue the problem isn't so much the wording, although that doesn't help. It's more that the under-the-hood calculations are non-intuitive in a lot of cases, yet are not in any way exposed to players so we have to guess. Armour is probably the biggest offender in this, because I'm not aware of a single place in the game which tells you what armour actually does. Not beyond an uninformative "resists damage" that... Yeah, I would have assumed as much. Incidentally, I still don't know how exactly Adaptation resists damage, but I'm assuming it's an additional resistance application onto whatever passes by the first resistance application from armour.

I should also note that terms like "additive" and "multiplicative" are themselves meaningless without the underlying formulae to give them context.

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This seems to have derailed. This thread was not about wording, but about mods being "unveiled" when you get them, rather than being readable in the codex from the get-go.

Please consider an alternate thread for such discussions. Upvote to OP, as I can see no reason to keep things as they are.

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Id take it a step further and just reveal all the details in the codex about relics also.

having to use the wiki to find the relic that drops something is stupid, EVERYONE knows what drops what when a new prime comes out. Stop forcing me to tab out or use my phone when im on xbox.

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Oh well yes, let's but a big flashing arrow above every potential secret or obscured thing in every game because you can go look everything up on Gamefaqs or some youtube walkthrough. Let's remove all possibility for self discovery. Hell, don't bother playing the games, just watch someone else do a walkthrough so you can just sit there and passively absorb it all!

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On 2018-12-19 at 1:59 PM, Hobie-wan said:

Oh well yes, let's but a big flashing arrow above every potential secret or obscured thing in every game because you can go look everything up on Gamefaqs or some youtube walkthrough. Let's remove all possibility for self discovery. Hell, don't bother playing the games, just watch someone else do a walkthrough so you can just sit there and passively absorb it all!

This is the worst strawman I've read all year. He's just talking about the obscure nitty-gritty details of modding, and  especially explaining misleading descriptions.

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1 minute ago, (XB1)Erudite God said:

This is the worst strawman I've read all year. He's just talking about the obscure nitty-gritty details of modding, and  especially explaining misleading descriptions.

Your sarcasm detector seems to be broken.

But still I do think discovering things on your own is a lost quality. Sure I've looked up some stuff on the wiki after finding a lot on my own, but it seems like too few people want to be surprised just because they found something these days.

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2 hours ago, Hobie-wan said:

But still I do think discovering things on your own is a lost quality. Sure I've looked up some stuff on the wiki after finding a lot on my own, but it seems like too few people want to be surprised just because they found something these days.

I can appreciate wanting to discover things on your own, but keeping mod descriptions of all things hidden is the reason I never use that codex page: I can't see if I'm missing a mod that contains an attribute I want unless that mod also has whatever word I search for in its name. My best bet is to shift my focus away from the game itself and use an external site.

The mods page reeks of wasted potential.

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Also, considering that you can read about all the other Warframes in the codex without having to own them, this is rather glaring. I should add that having all Warframes available in the codex doesn't hurt the game for me, in fact it even gave me personal objectives when I was starting out. The feeling of identifying a favorite Warframe who you will main as in the codex is a pretty strong hook because it gently pushes newbies with something to aim for.

Compare this to the mod scenario. While the discovery bit can be kept intact by keeping out the info that shows which enemy the mods drop from, I don't think it would hurt the game that much to know that a certain mod exists long before you obtain it.

For example, one of my first thoughts when I got my own Zephyr back then was "Wow, is there a mod that can sacrifice ability damage for lower energy cost so I can air dash all day long without running out of energy? I like this flying warframe gig". I would eventually get the answer in the form of a corrupted mod (forgot the name), which would've had mainly a positive effect on my motivation in playing had I been able to learn this much earlier.

Plus, it may be only for a small percentage of players, but to some a game that requires an external wiki to explain itself might not be the best market pitch. If anything it makes Warframe look like an incredibly intimidating game that demands lots of wiki effort to play properly. If the information is in-game however, the message becomes the opposite: the game will look transparent and unafraid to show you how deep the rabbit hole really goes.

Edited by MandzPH
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