Add the old and new styles to abilities.

[(XBOX)XGN DrFeelGood]

   There were old abilities on classic warframes that made sense, like bad math on chroma for 16x damage, 24 shadows on nekros terrify affecting all enemy types and removing some % of armor at a time before the rework that happened before the prime release, and the constant blinding discoball from Mirage. There are more like the 95% blessing trinity, which can at least go back up to 90%, self damage Rhino, Saryn spores on the decoy, and Ember, Banshee, and Valkyr losing their effectiveness with the drain kicking in too fast to make their ultimates temporary.

 

   What is being said here is that we can use mechanics that we used to have a long time ago and still have the new ones. The Devs and the fans can agree on this one.

Edited March 19, 2019 by (XB1)XGN DrFeelGood

[WhiteMarker]

15 minutes ago, (XB1)XGN DrFeelGood said:

What is being said here is that we can use mechanics that we used to have a long time ago and still have the new ones. The Devs and the fans can agree on this one.

Nope.
If Devs would want that, they wouldn't have changed anything in the first place.
Most of this stuff was changed for balancing reasons. For example Chromas damage calculation was totally broken...

[Chewarette]

The game is evolving, adapt yourself instead of requesting to revert everything to what you personally preferred.

Edited March 19, 2019 by Chewarette

[AtsiaZ]

There are reasons abilities get changed. DE has no reason to change them back to their old broken mechanics, no matter how much we complain.

Edited March 19, 2019 by Atsia

[Insizer]

If this is not a troll thread then this is one of the dumbest threads I've seen.

The devs found practically all the things you've mentioned to be unbalanced if not completely broken, which in some cases led to negative effects on the gameplay of your squad and the game at large.  Why would they give you the opportunity to go back to that?  You might as well ask them to let me, a Limbo main, revert the Stasis change because I enjoyed having Stasis last twice as long as it does now and because I enjoyed setting Stasis traps, everyone else in my squad be damned.

Edited March 20, 2019 by Insizer

[(XBOX)XGN DrFeelGood]

16 hours ago, Insizer said:

If this is not a troll thread then this is one of the dumbest threads I've seen.

The devs found practically all the things you've mentioned to be unbalanced if not completely broken, which in some cases led to negative effects on the gameplay of your squad and the game at large.  Why would they give you the opportunity to go back to that?  You might as well ask them to let me, a Limbo main, revert the Stasis change because I enjoyed having Stasis last twice as long as it does now and because I enjoyed setting Stasis traps, everyone else in my squad be damned.

Some mods had to be made when some mechanics were removed; but requests have brought them back, such the mod for the sniper rifle combo multiplyer. If it can be done with weapons, then we can see it happen with Warframes like Mirage getting their Disco ball back to a degree.

[Insizer]

1 hour ago, (XB1)XGN DrFeelGood said:

Some mods had to be made when some mechanics were removed; but requests have brought them back, such the mod for the sniper rifle combo multiplyer. If it can be done with weapons, then we can see it happen with Warframes like Mirage getting their Disco ball back to a degree.

Maybe you can see it happen, but I can't.  Comparing potentially broken Warframe abilities to mods is like comparing apples and lettuce.  Again, I point to Stasis.  Can you honestly say that the difference between the old Stasis and the current Stasis is on the same level as simple weapon mechanics?  How about Vex Armor's broken af damage calculations?  Can you say that reverted weapon mechanics have the same effect on combat as a max range Saryn casting Spores on her Molt and popping to infect the whole tile with massive procs without line of sight?  That is like trying to justify bringing a small hammer to drive a railroad spike under the premise that it will be enough because railroad spikes are like nails, so you should be fine.

Edited March 20, 2019 by Insizer

[AtsiaZ]

4 hours ago, (XB1)XGN DrFeelGood said:

Some mods had to be made when some mechanics were removed; but requests have brought them back, such the mod for the sniper rifle combo multiplyer. If it can be done with weapons, then we can see it happen with Warframes like Mirage getting their Disco ball back to a degree.

............You're trying to compare broken OP mechanics frame mechanics to QoL weapon changes. This is the most apples to oranges comparison I've ever seen.

[Tsukinoki]

On 2019-03-19 at 1:51 AM, (XB1)XGN DrFeelGood said:

 What is being said here is that we can use mechanics that we used to have a long time ago and still have the new ones. The Devs and the fans can agree on this one.

How about no?
Or else what you're going to have is the infinite range invincibility Trinities back.  Good luck balancing anything when you have a frame that can hit 4, fully heal every frame within infinite range, and grant total invincibility for long periods of time.
Or what about the 60 meter, non-LoS dependant radial blind for cheap, long lasting, stuns to entire tiles?
Or what about changing Iron Skin back to a pure Duration ability that was simply "You are invulnerable to all damage and procs for X time, affected by mods"?
Oh, what about how Rhino used to have Stomp and Radial blast as separate abilities?  How would that come back with this idea?
There is simply a lot more to this than you appeared to have thought about it appears...

There are many reasons DE has nerfed abilities as time has gone on, and they aren't coming back.
And how would you suggest that the current abilities exist with the old ones?  How would the old blessing exist with the current one in any way, shape, or form?  How would the old Iron Skin exist in any way shape or form with the current Iron Skin?
Old abilities were changed for a very good reason.  DE isn't going to just give you the option to go back and change it "just because..."

5 hours ago, (XB1)XGN DrFeelGood said:

If it can be done with weapons, then we can see it happen with Warframes like Mirage getting their Disco ball back to a degree.

Surely you can tell the difference between a minor mechanic in a weapon mode compared to the entirety of an abilities mechanics, right?

[(XBOX)XGN DrFeelGood]

4 hours ago, Insizer said:

Maybe you can see it happen, but I can't.  Comparing potentially broken Warframe abilities to mods is like comparing apples and lettuce.  Again, I point to Stasis.  Can you honestly say that the difference between the old Stasis and the current Stasis is on the same level as simple weapon mechanics?  How about Vex Armor's broken af damage calculations?  Can you say that reverted weapon mechanics have the same effect on combat as a max range Saryn casting Spores on her Molt and popping to infect the whole tile with massive procs without line of sight?  That is like trying to justify bringing a small hammer to drive a railroad spike under the premise that it will be enough because railroad spikes are like nails, so you should be fine.

Minecraft made it's famous Creeper character out of a coding bug. Classic arcade games and older titles had similar bugs which make the game fun in it's own way. In logic, we can make Cod Battlefield and GTA as realistic as possible; but there are going to be coding bugs thar allow unrealistic physics and glitches to happen. It's the fun glitches that people enjoy in games too that count.

[AtsiaZ]

20 minutes ago, (XB1)XGN DrFeelGood said:

Minecraft made it's famous Creeper character out of a coding bug. Classic arcade games and older titles had similar bugs which make the game fun in it's own way. In logic, we can make Cod Battlefield and GTA as realistic as possible; but there are going to be coding bugs thar allow unrealistic physics and glitches to happen. It's the fun glitches that people enjoy in games too that count.

So does DE.They keep in little glitches, like the Zenistar skin interaction. They based our entire movement system around glitchy mechanics. What they're not gonna do is bring back glitches that allow for broken/OP mechanics, like Chromas old damage calcs, or gold old invincible Trinity.

[(XBOX)XGN DrFeelGood]

4 minutes ago, Atsia said:

So does DE.They keep in little glitches, like the Zenistar skin interaction. They based our entire movement system around glitchy mechanics. What they're not gonna do is bring back glitches that allow for broken/OP mechanics, like Chromas old damage calcs, or gold old invincible Trinity.

Instint kill Vauban was a glitch; but it was not game breaking. Just a glitch it self. Smaller glitches can be outlyers; but others like the original Quake Banshee, Hysteria Valkyr, and World on Fire Ember. While some nerfs weren't towards flawless kits they were a good witch hunt to water down some content.

[Insizer]

18 hours ago, (XB1)XGN DrFeelGood said:

Instint kill Vauban was a glitch; but it was not game breaking. Just a glitch it self. Smaller glitches can be outlyers; but others like the original Quake Banshee, Hysteria Valkyr, and World on Fire Ember. While some nerfs weren't towards flawless kits they were a good witch hunt to water down some content.

No offense, but you are gonna have to reword this post.  I've read it 5 times and have no idea what you are trying to say.

That aside.  The fact is that they made many of these changes to abilities because they thought they were too powerful and that they were having a negative effect on the game.  Why would they go through the effort of replacing/changing these abilities if they let you undo those changes whenever you wanted?  That would allow the negative effects, which prompted the changes in question, to come back into the game and ruin things.  For the third time I point to the changes to Limbo's Stasis.  Do you really think that people would like that coming back?

There is a difference between thinking that some changes went too far and wanting to petition the devs to rethink said changes; and wanting the devs to allow us to revert things back to potentially gamebreaking conditions.

Furthermore the amount of effort they would need to use in order to make the game effectively backwards compatible would be enormous.  Here's an example: versions of abilities that were changed before things like damage 2.0 would have to be make damage 2.0 compatible.  This wouldn't be a small feat.  A lot of time and effort would be used to allow players to break the game.  No developer would say yes to that.

OP, your proposal is drop-dead dumb and is a terrible idea.  You allow cheesing to go rampant, upset any sense of balance between frames, destroy any reason to use frames other than a very few (who the hell will use any healer other than trinity with her infinite range invicibility?), waste time and resources, aggravate players.  No one would want it.  The Devs and fans can agree on this one.

Edited March 22, 2019 by Insizer

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

No

[(XBOX)XGN DrFeelGood]

4 hours ago, Insizer said:

No offense, but you are gonna have to reword this post.  I've read it 5 times and have no idea what you are trying to say.

That aside.  The fact is that they made many of these changes to abilities because they thought they were too powerful and that they were having a negative effect on the game.  Why would they go through the effort of replacing/changing these abilities if they let you undo those changes whenever you wanted?  That would allow the negative effects, which prompted the changes in question, to come back into the game and ruin things.  For the third time I point to the changes to Limbo's Stasis.  Do you really think that people would like that coming back?

There is a difference between thinking that some changes went too far and wanting to petition the devs to rethink said changes; and wanting the devs to allow us to revert things back to potentially gamebreaking conditions.

Furthermore the amount of effort they would need to use in order to make the game effectively backwards compatible would be enormous.  Here's an example: versions of abilities that were changed before things like damage 2.0 would have to be make damage 2.0 compatible.  This wouldn't be a small feat.  A lot of time and effort would be used to allow players to break the game.  No developer would say yes to that.

OP, your proposal is drop-dead dumb and is a terrible idea.  You allow cheesing to go rampant, upset any sense of balance between frames, destroy any reason to use frames other than a very few (who the hell will use any healer other than trinity with her infinite range invicibility?), waste time and resources, aggravate players.  No one would want it.  The Devs and fans can agree on this one.

People pressed 4 on ash then gave us back the option to go into bladestorm with the clones as a mechanic when the character got reworked again.

Edited March 22, 2019 by (XB1)XGN DrFeelGood

[AtsiaZ]

21 minutes ago, (XB1)XGN DrFeelGood said:

People pressed 4 on ash then gave us back the option to go into bladestorm with the clones as a mechanic when the character got reworked again.

That's an entirely different scenario. It wasn't Ash joining in that was broken,  it was the one button AoE invincibility that also locked enemies from being damaged by anyone else that was the real problem. DE is fine with letting join in, as long as the build up to joining in isn't 1 button press and doesn't get in the way of other players.

[(XBOX)XGN DrFeelGood]

2 hours ago, Atsia said:

That's an entirely different scenario. It wasn't Ash joining in that was broken,  it was the one button AoE invincibility that also locked enemies from being damaged by anyone else that was the real problem. DE is fine with letting join in, as long as the build up to joining in isn't 1 button press and doesn't get in the way of other players.

The original justification was players complaining about each other stealing the other's kills. The waves of nerfs were so strong at different points it was like seeing D 1 get nerfed harder and harder. Ash got somewhat restored; but the other characters have a watered down kit after time passed 

[the_llama_from_space]

personaly no

the game is constently evolving, dose a lot of old stuff need to be brought up to curent standers ? yes dose bringing back older mecanics fix that ? more then likely not 

[JackHargreav]

Bad math on Chroma. Bad math making sense. Bad math. It has BAD in It's name. Because It's broken. Broken is not good. That is why they fixed it.

[(XBOX)XGN DrFeelGood]

10 minutes ago, JackHargreav said:

Bad math on Chroma. Bad math making sense. Bad math. It has BAD in It's name. Because It's broken. Broken is not good. That is why they fixed it.

If ash got restored to their original glory and then some, then characters like Chroma and Rhino deserve to reach new hights.

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

You have completely missed the point of reworks...

They didn't change those things just to make things feel fresh. Reworks take time and money and are usually only done when something is unintentionally too powerful or too weak.

[AtsiaZ]

34 minutes ago, (XB1)XGN DrFeelGood said:

If ash got restored to their original glory and then some, then characters like Chroma and Rhino deserve to reach new hights.

Don't be ridiculous, Ash is nowhere near his original state. Current BS is vastly different from old BS, and his being able to join in the animation is nowhere near a good comparison to blatantly broken math and other mechanics.

[Insizer]

On 2019-03-22 at 1:02 AM, (XB1)XGN DrFeelGood said:

People pressed 4 on ash then gave us back the option to go into bladestorm with the clones as a mechanic when the character got reworked again.

This change was done by DE after hearing complaints from the community and weighing their information and options.  They found that inaction would be bad for the game and addressed it.  This was just the normal evaluation and change that goes with this game.  They didn't go back completely to the old BS, and if they would have it then it would have been a decision they made.  They didn't allow players to choose which version of an ability they wanted to use.

If anything, this example is a counter point to your entire argument because it shows that DE does listen to the players.

You are saying "they brought back a part of old BS into a newer BS after complaints"  but how is that like allowing players to fully revert back to infinite range invincibility Blessing Trinity?

If you don't like specific things they have done to specific frames and their abilities then complain about it on the forums.  If enough jimmies are rustling then DE will notice and do something about it, maybe not immediately but eventually.  Again, this is DE we are talking about, not Activision or EA.  But don't expect them to throw up their hands and say "y'all can revert to whatever, whenever"  because there are many many changes that they made for the good of the game which have made the game better.

[JackHargreav]

1 hour ago, (XB1)XGN DrFeelGood said:

If ash got restored to their original glory and then some, then characters like Chroma and Rhino deserve to reach new hights.

Ash wasn't restored at all. And making a frame extremely powerfull and straight up broken is the dumbest thing imaginable.

[(XBOX)XGN DrFeelGood]

4 hours ago, Insizer said:

This change was done by DE after hearing complaints from the community and weighing their information and options.  They found that inaction would be bad for the game and addressed it.  This was just the normal evaluation and change that goes with this game.  They didn't go back completely to the old BS, and if they would have it then it would have been a decision they made.  They didn't allow players to choose which version of an ability they wanted to use.

If anything, this example is a counter point to your entire argument because it shows that DE does listen to the players.

You are saying "they brought back a part of old BS into a newer BS after complaints"  but how is that like allowing players to fully revert back to infinite range invincibility Blessing Trinity?

If you don't like specific things they have done to specific frames and their abilities then complain about it on the forums.  If enough jimmies are rustling then DE will notice and do something about it, maybe not immediately but eventually.  Again, this is DE we are talking about, not Activision or EA.  But don't expect them to throw up their hands and say "y'all can revert to whatever, whenever"  because there are many many changes that they made for the good of the game which have made the game better.

Then in like manner we can all ask for a variation of the best of the original kits on characters to get them consistent buffs and get some high end level missions with level 250+ enemies.