solo extraction update

[(XBOX)EngagingCrane92]

Ok, now people can extract at will. Is everyone happy? No. Besides the host migration bug that you need to fix asap you made the game much harder for starting players.

Im sure you have all been in mission where 1 person couldnt keep up and could barely stay alive. Well, right now that person will fail his mission. Do you think he will keep playing and learn when this keeps happening? I doubt it.

Make a prompt whenever someone is extracting if you want to extrac with them. 9 out of 10 i will pick yes

[(XBOX)Pendergast891]

maybe, they can go to recruit chat, ask for help, or to even join a clan. Or, if they consistently fail missions, they will realize they need to get stronger, and get better gear.

Having players at least attempt to be self sufficient is good.

[SableSonata]

So you're concerned about how this affects new players, but you're not concerned enough to help those players out yourself?

[Yxivi]

Doesn't make any difference tho. I mean, in the old system people will head to extraction and will FORCE extraction whether that newbie want it or not. At least now, the newbie can stay and see if they can solo the mission. If the newbie fails then it's just an indicator for them that it's time to enhance their equipment. 

Solo extraction made everything easy for everyone. If someone joined the mission and only plan to do a few rounds then they can extract without forcing anyone or being held hostage by the other players that wanted more rounds. 

[TeddyTalker]

Yawn. Selfish whining topic. People exist and have lives. They do not have to sit in a game with you. 

[MemeCataclysm]

9 minutes ago, (NSW)TeddyTalks said:

Yawn. Selfish whining topic. People exist and have lives. They do not have to sit in a game with you. 

Did you even read the post? This is about low level players getting curb-stomped because the high level players left due to there being no "extract with them" system.

[TeddyTalker]

6 hours ago, MemeCataclysm said:

Did you even read the post? This is about low level players getting curb-stomped because the high level players left due to there being no "extract with them" system.

So.... The new players should not be expecting carrys anyway. 

[TheMusicInTheVoid]

Wait, solo extraction is a thing? Just yesterday it occurred to me at least two times that other players stayed in a mission for no damn reason and I had to wait at extraction for around twenty minutes till m'lords decided they were bored, to not lose progress.

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

Sortie Survival

no more carries, everyone has to get to extraction on their own.

 

is that really Intended? considering Sortie Survival isn't actually a real Endless Survival mission?

[_Kiro]

I just wonder why this wasn't implemented like in the Plains or Fortuna. You want to leave the squad at 20mins? Cool. Leave the squad and go to the exit on your own.

Now the current situation is that, when you go and move to the exit, instead of dragging people with you (which for some reason was a complaint) you leave on your own after the timer has passed, this along with waypoint bugs (waypoints are still a bloody mess) and the host migration bugs cost a squad mate of mine 40mins worth of Kuva on Taveuni in the Kuva Fortress (it equals about 40k since we have a booster on).

How it was before the changes:
- 2 or more people drag the whole squad out when they go to the exit;
- People complain but no host problems occur.

How it is now:
- 1 or more players leave the squad when they go to the exit after 1min;
- Whoever stays behind complains of host migration bugs.

How it should be:
- "Leave Squad" allows you to stay in mission but leaves your squad like it works on the plains/orb vallis;
- Whoever wants to stay together and leave together can do it and no host problems will occur, this will also help avoiding the waypoint bug so long as 2 players can reach the exit.

I personally think this would be a lot more confortable and appropriate. Personal opinion though.

Edited March 24, 2019 by _Kiro

[MemeCataclysm]

18 hours ago, (NSW)TeddyTalks said:

So.... The new players should not be expecting carrys anyway. 

I'm not saying new players should be spoon fed the entire extraction mission, I'm saying that the way the higher leveled players extract should be slightly altered. In most other missions the extraction timer means everybody leaves when it expires, so players who don't extraction works differently most likely won't bother going because they think they'll all go at the same time.

In low level play sure, they can easily run to extraction and keep their loot when they realise they're the only person left, but in high level play late into the mission they can't last a few seconds without getting repeatedly gunned down. You need 50k cryo to cover the most expensive items in the game, it hurts to lose it.

You can't say "They just shouldn't do high level extraction." They will, you can't stop them from it. If they can get loads of shared affinity because high MR players want cryo they're gonna take it. Most new players probably don't know how high level Everest can go.

There needs to be an on screen message like regular extraction that says "2/4 Players extracting, you are able to stay" So others can start moving on to extraction if they know they can't last on their own and to tell players that waiting for the timer to expire will not end their mission.

Edited March 25, 2019 by MemeCataclysm

[TeddyTalker]

26 minutes ago, MemeCataclysm said:

I'm not saying new players should be spoon fed the entire extraction mission, I'm saying that the way the higher leveled players extract should be slightly altered. In most other missions the extraction timer means everybody leaves when it expires, so players who don't extraction works differently most likely won't bother going because they think they'll all go at the same time.

In low level play sure, they can easily run to extraction and keep their loot when they realise they're the only person left, but in high level play late into the mission they can't last a few seconds without getting repeatedly gunned down. You need 50k cryo to cover the most expensive items in the game, it hurts to lose it.

You can't say "They just shouldn't do high level extraction." They will, you can't stop them from it. If they can get loads of shared affinity because high MR players want cryo they're gonna take it. Most new players probably don't know how high level Everest can go.

There needs to be an on screen message like regular extraction that says "2/4 Players extracting, you are able to stay" So others can start moving on to extraction if they know they can't last on their own and to tell players that waiting for the timer to expire will not end their mission.

Seems kinda superfluous as the first time it happens, they wont do it again. They tend to leave when they start dying or doing pathetic damage anyway, or 10 minutes. 

[sam686]

5 hours ago, _Kiro said:

How it is now:
- 1 or more players leave the squad when they go to the exit after 1min;
- Whoever stays behind complains of host migration bugs.

Host migration... only happens if the Host extracts and others stays. If host stays in mission and client extract, no host migration and game goes on uninterrupted.

The "Leave Squad" in free roam always have host migration to one or the other players. Would be nice if clients have an option to individually solo return to Fortuna/Cetus without wasting time on host migration. I would like to see clients have an action button on the door to immediately and individually return and leave squad with no host migration.

Leave squad in regular missions with randomized map might create an easy exploit if leave squad can be used at the start of mission. Join AFK player, leave squad, get rare loot container and ayatan treasure, complete mission. Then join and leave squad to get the same exact location of rare loots... Unless the game add some restrictions to prevent this.

[_Kiro]

2 hours ago, sam686 said:

Host migration... only happens if the Host extracts and others stays. If host stays in mission and client extract, no host migration and game goes on uninterrupted.

The "Leave Squad" in free roam always have host migration to one or the other players. Would be nice if clients have an option to individually solo return to Fortuna/Cetus without wasting time on host migration. I would like to see clients have an action button on the door to immediately and individually return and leave squad with no host migration.

Leave squad in regular missions with randomized map might create an easy exploit if leave squad can be used at the start of mission. Join AFK player, leave squad, get rare loot container and ayatan treasure, complete mission. Then join and leave squad to get the same exact location of rare loots... Unless the game add some restrictions to prevent this.

I understand your point but leaving squad and getting back in again wouldn't be so easily exploited as you can only leave the mission with your loot after the first rotation as the exit only really opens up after said rotation is done (as far as I remember anyway by reading the patch notes, if I'm wrong please do correct me).

The thing that really bothers me personally isn't the concept of leaving early by itself, it's how it was implemented. Right now we have a waypoint bug and a host migration bug that have been around for quite a bit and, considering the situation at hand, don't exactly make it easy to leave squad at will which is the point of this change to regular missions.

Right now the waypoint isn't precise, it points you south when you're gliding and then points north when you're on the ground, then it points east when you enter a door making you lose time. Meanwhile the host wants to leave, and generally these people don't know/care to know they're the host, leaving whoever is still inside to disconnect. At this point the game tries to make someone on the squad the new host and is generally successful but then comes one of three situations:

- The new host is decided but someone on the squad (or everyone) finds no loot on their mission rewards (again this happened to a squad mate of mine yesterday in a 40min kuva survival);

- The new host isn't decided, the game complains it can't connect to the new host and everyone that stayed behind basically loses everything;

- Everything is fine, no connection errors and no loss of loot, which is as it should be but it is not at this point.

I don't want to sound as if I'm complaining though, I like the new system despite it all but it's not well implemented. Considering it all, I think this should be further tested before actually adding it to the game.

PS: the situations above are based on my personal experiences and may/may not represent the whole community's experience with the game.

[sam686]

4 hours ago, _Kiro said:

- The new host isn't decided, the game complains it can't connect to the new host and everyone that stayed behind basically loses everything

Host is likely able to continue the game, even if others fails to connect to new host... unless the new host freezes or "Warframe has crashed" in a middle of host migration. Also, possibly remaining players that stayed in mission all have strict NAT that will often fail to connect.

There is one way to completely avoid host migration from solo extract and quitters: dedicated game servers. But, dedicated server and "Leave Squad" might be questionable. Sadly, dedicated servers are limited to Conclave, and limited to PC platform. Will there be dedicated servers for more activities?

5 hours ago, _Kiro said:

Right now the waypoint isn't precise, it points you south when you're gliding and then points north when you're on the ground, then it points east when you enter a door making you lose time.

Waypoint problems have happened to me at the time of this reply, on Lua Rescue Sortie. No host migration, it just happens. Video: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/401000388

[_Kiro]

1 hour ago, sam686 said:

Host is likely able to continue the game, even if others fails to connect to new host... unless the new host freezes or "Warframe has crashed" in a middle of host migration. Also, possibly remaining players that stayed in mission all have strict NAT that will often fail to connect.

There is one way to completely avoid host migration from solo extract and quitters: dedicated game servers. But, dedicated server and "Leave Squad" might be questionable. Sadly, dedicated servers are limited to Conclave, and limited to PC platform. Will there be dedicated servers for more activities?

Waypoint problems have happened to me at the time of this reply, on Lua Rescue Sortie. No host migration, it just happens. Video: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/401000388

Your video is perfect to expose my point. Assume a player does not know the layout of the map, instead of actually going to the right spot they will go around the map completely lost.

I for example have an horrible sense of direction, depending on the map I will get lost over the waypoint marking a different spot. Said lost player will not be able to move to the exit, will stay lost, will suffer a host migration and will have a chance of losing his gains on the mission. 

I honestly know I'm going in circles here at this point but here's hoping the devs take a look at this and think about it...

[(XBOX)EngagingCrane92]

Kiro, you said it exactly the way i wanted.

[Stavik96]

On 2019-03-25 at 1:29 AM, MemeCataclysm said:

I'm not saying new players should be spoon fed the entire extraction mission, I'm saying that the way the higher leveled players extract should be slightly altered. In most other missions the extraction timer means everybody leaves when it expires, so players who don't extraction works differently most likely won't bother going because they think they'll all go at the same time.

In low level play sure, they can easily run to extraction and keep their loot when they realise they're the only person left, but in high level play late into the mission they can't last a few seconds without getting repeatedly gunned down. You need 50k cryo to cover the most expensive items in the game, it hurts to lose it.

You can't say "They just shouldn't do high level extraction." They will, you can't stop them from it. If they can get loads of shared affinity because high MR players want cryo they're gonna take it. Most new players probably don't know how high level Everest can go.

There needs to be an on screen message like regular extraction that says "2/4 Players extracting, you are able to stay" So others can start moving on to extraction if they know they can't last on their own and to tell players that waiting for the timer to expire will not end their mission.

If you know how to properly bullet jump then avoiding getting downed by heavy gunners level 200 should be no problem. If new players are as bad as you're making them out to be then they should honestly just stop playing warframe as it's obviously not a game suitable for them. The only complaint I would have about this change is the fact that if the host is one of those that leaves early on then there's a high chance it #*!%s over everyone else due to host migration being just as bad as the CoD MW2 days of host migration where apparently no one else is suitable and then everyone loses all their progress.

[MemeCataclysm]

On 2019-04-20 at 11:00 PM, Stavik96 said:

If you know how to properly bullet jump then avoiding getting downed by heavy gunners level 200 should be no problem. If new players are as bad as you're making them out to be then they should honestly just stop playing warframe as it's obviously not a game suitable for them. The only complaint I would have about this change is the fact that if the host is one of those that leaves early on then there's a high chance it #*!%s over everyone else due to host migration being just as bad as the CoD MW2 days of host migration where apparently no one else is suitable and then everyone loses all their progress.

Sure, players who have practiced and regularly bullet jumped over the course of playing the game can bullet jump through entire rooms of enemies without getting hit, especially on earth because of how large and open its rooms are, but we've done it so much its second nature at this point. Most times I play Everest the lower MR players don't know how fast and effective bullet jumping is and usually sprint everywhere.

I'm not calling new players "bad" but I don't know how any truly new player without many mods and possibly non-maxed equipment can stand up to a level 200 heavy gunner without getting downed, new players aren't supposed to encounter level 200 enemies, not even end-game players have a reliable method to just go fight level 200 enemies in actual missions, only from scaling levels. Some MR6 player with practice who knows what they're doing could potentially with good items and mods take one down without loosing too much health, but there are MR1 players on everest, people who have mark-1 weapons.

If you are new to something you are going to be less competent, years ago I couldn't do mars without getting downed at least once, maybe multiple times even failing missions. If I didn't suck I wouldn't have any drive to improve myself. I don't understand why you think "not able to survive level 200 enemies" means "you should quit the game and stop playing." Warframe is not pure skill, bad mods means you die.

The reasons I want a "click to leave with teamates / message telling them to go to extraction to leave your teammate" system goes beyond just "making things easier for new players" theres a chance we have to deal with crap like host migrations like you said in your post, sometimes I'm in the middle of an endless mission and one of my teammates went to extraction and I never noticed until I see they left, sometimes I'd like to play with the same team again but because one person left solo the entire squad is broken.

All the players who get crushed on endless missions can usually make it to extraction without dying too many times, learn more about their limits and will eventually get better and only leave when they "want" to leave.

But a MR1 player who just picked up the game isn't going to be able to go as far, they can do really well like an MR1 I played with who went on for 20 digs in a team with frost, but thats far from level 200.

If a new player wants to push onwards to high level endless then, by all means thats fine, but they should know their own limits and consider extracting if it starts getting unmanageable.

Edited April 22, 2019 by MemeCataclysm

[dirtysmile]

Learn to get a premade squad together if you're afraid of randoms leaving prematurely. The world doesn't revolve around you, learn to communicate.

[(PSN)BenHeisennberg]

On 2019-03-23 at 4:39 PM, MemeCataclysm said:

Did you even read the post? This is about low level players getting curb-stomped because the high level players left due to there being no "extract with them" system.

How many new players do you talk to?

[Seph-Aldaire]

Honestly I've never experienced any major bugs with people leaving early, just that darn "head to extraction" pop up or whatever it says floats on my screen the rest of the time 😠