Sniper Rifle riven nerfs are absolutely undeserved

[SonicSonedit]

Popularity - based nerfs should at least consider not just "use count", but also "used mission type count". Please allow me to explain:

Sniper rifles only have "high" popularity because they are used to hunt Eidolons - the only niche they have where they are popular. Everywhere else sniper rifles underperform, extremely.

So, basically, a niche underperforming weapon class is popular only within it's niche and you punish this weapon class for that... essentially killing it.

I would also suggest drop "used count" and instead take "kill count" or "damage dealt" into consideration since a lot of people just take their "fav gun" for fluff and barely use it, just taking it along any mission they go.

 

Edited April 3, 2019 by SonicSonedit

[OvisCaedo]

It's mostly funny because it's also probably near pointless to nerf rivens for the eidolon fights, people will just overoptimize their damage elsewhere to keep one shotting everything in their meta comps.

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

I use Snipers for assassination missions and Index pretty heavily.... and I do those more often than Eidolon hunts

[Loza03]

6 hours ago, SonicSonedit said:

Popularity - based nerfs

About that:

Quote

We are also making one slight change based on feedback from our last Workshop: past Disposition changes have been primarily based on weapon usage stats, where more popular weapons received lower Dispositions, and vice versa. These numbers were adjusted by hand where we deemed appropriate, but players have suggested we should take it one step further - going forward, we have compiled our own internal ranking of weapon power levels, which will be referenced in addition to usage stats to reach our final numbers. As further tweaks bring us closer to “ideal” Disposition numbers, changes should become less drastic, reinforced by our internal rankings providing a solid baseline.

They're not popularity-based anymore.

[m0b1us1]

56 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

About that:

They're not popularity-based anymore.

Well to be honest, they can say anything. Doesn't make it necessarily true. Example the major chat moderation and guides of the lotus still hasn't been addressed. DE even criticized a youtuber who pointed that out and DE has been censoring people on the forums who bring up the exact issues.

[Vox_Preliator]

5 minutes ago, m0b1us1 said:

Well to be honest, they can say anything. Doesn't make it necessarily true. Example the major chat moderation and guides of the lotus still hasn't been addressed. DE even criticized a youtuber who pointed that out and DE has been censoring people on the forums who bring up the exact issues.

I mean if you're going to be like that there's no point in ever saying anything to you.

And if you really believe those examples then you haven't been paying attention.

[Loza03]

11 minutes ago, m0b1us1 said:

Well to be honest, they can say anything. Doesn't make it necessarily true. Example the major chat moderation and guides of the lotus still hasn't been addressed. DE even criticized a youtuber who pointed that out and DE has been censoring people on the forums who bring up the exact issues.

Except this very change was them acting on that exact claim. 

I'm not saying that the Chat Moderation stuff's alright, but claiming and doing are very much different things.

[m0b1us1]

3 minutes ago, Vox_Preliator said:

I mean if you're going to be like that there's no point in ever saying anything to you.

And if you really believe those examples then you haven't been paying attention.

I prefer to see proof and actions, not just words. 

No I have been paying attention. Unless my week old data needs to be updated. If not then you should pay attention more to what actually occurs vs what is claimed.

[m0b1us1]

1 minute ago, Loza03 said:

Except this very change was them acting on that exact claim. 

I'm not saying that the Chat Moderation stuff's alright, but claiming and doing are very much different things.

It was just an example of a time when DE says one thing, but then it's found out that isn't the case. Like drop rates not actually being what they were shown as, the whole ESO and endgame claims, etc.

[Loza03]

1 hour ago, m0b1us1 said:

It was just an example of a time when DE says one thing, but then it's found out that isn't the case. Like drop rates not actually being what they were shown as, the whole ESO and endgame claims, etc.

 

1 hour ago, m0b1us1 said:

I prefer to see proof and actions, not just words. 

No I have been paying attention. Unless my week old data needs to be updated. If not then you should pay attention more to what actually occurs vs what is claimed.

But... as far as we're aware, this IS what happened. We have no reason to disbelieve DE in this case. 

[m0b1us1]

5 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

 

But... as far as we're aware, this IS what happened. We have no reason to disbelieve DE in this case. 

Panthera dispo nerfed. Not a notably strong weapon. Hek dispo buffed, still one of the best all around shotguns in the game, vaykor hek is still insanely strong. The sybaris family are all amazing weapons yet was buffed to neutral. Angstrum dispo nerfed while kulsar dispo buffed.

So do tell me, if DE did infact only base dispo changes based on performance, then why were all of these changed and why weren't tons of others changed? If they did change the dispo based on performance, then how are they determining performance? 

Anyone can say "oh I base this off performance" but what good is it if you don't know how that is derived? Think simpler with math. If I say that this value stands for velocity, but the equation (that I don't show you) divides a distance by something other than time, am I correct in calling it velocity?

[Xzorn]

If they actually rated Disposition on power or potential power instead of popularity Snipers would get nerfed anyways.

Zephyr Solo + Octavia Specter otherwise base output of Lanka goes this far.

Either way Snipers make standard Rifles rather pointless.

They aren't used against the sad fodder we're subjected to but they're quite powerful.

[Loza03]

32 minutes ago, m0b1us1 said:

Panthera dispo nerfed. Not a notably strong weapon. Hek dispo buffed, still one of the best all around shotguns in the game, vaykor hek is still insanely strong. The sybaris family are all amazing weapons yet was buffed to neutral. Angstrum dispo nerfed while kulsar dispo buffed.

So do tell me, if DE did infact only base dispo changes based on performance, then why were all of these changed and why weren't tons of others changed? If they did change the dispo based on performance, then how are they determining performance? 

Anyone can say "oh I base this off performance" but what good is it if you don't know how that is derived? Think simpler with math. If I say that this value stands for velocity, but the equation (that I don't show you) divides a distance by something other than time, am I correct in calling it velocity?

Hek's also really popular, especially given its status as a beginner weapon that's endgame viable with the right setup.

So, logically, the same applies there.

[m0b1us1]

1 hour ago, Loza03 said:

Hek's also really popular, especially given its status as a beginner weapon that's endgame viable with the right setup.

So, logically, the same applies there.

Then you have the vaykor hek which is not a beginner weapon and is crazy strong. The hek is also not nearly as popular as it used to be. If riven dispos are determined by the weakest varient of a weapon, then why was the stradavar dispo nerfed preemptively? We didn't even get the chance to get a riven on the prime and somehow the performance of it was already enough to justify a lower dispo? One thing is clear, stradavar rivens saw a spike in popularity when the prime was revealed.

My point still stands, All we were told is that DE claims to be changing disposition based on power/performance. Yet there are plenty of examples that don't seem to fit that claim. Also we still don't know exactly what they are using to determine a weapons "performance". Given DE's record of telling us something they think and then giving us something that doesn't match is quite common.

"Eidolons are going to require the same team effort as raids" eidolons end up just being a dps race that takes no coordination. "This new mode will give vets a real challenge and give end game rewards" we get ESO. "This change will make her better at higher levels and not as good for lower levels" we get the current state of ember. "This change will make using his 1 more enticing" we get charge up tesla grenades for vauban. I can keep going but I think that is uneccessary.

[Thrymm]

"which will be referenced in addition to usage stats to reach our final numbers"

Y'all are theorizing whether they're going to do as they say or not while completely ignoring this part of their statement.

Yes, they're saying they plan to put a little thought into the whole thing and use actual performance stats, but they're saying it's IN ADDITION to usage stats, not in lieu of them.

In this instance, they're doing exactly what they said they're going to do----make adjustments based on performance AND make adjustments based on popularity.  And yes, I think that means we're still going to scratch our heads as to where some of this comes from.

[m0b1us1]

3 minutes ago, Thrymm said:

"which will be referenced in addition to usage stats to reach our final numbers"

Y'all are theorizing whether they're going to do as they say or not while completely ignoring this part of their statement.

Yes, they're saying they plan to put a little thought into the whole thing and use actual performance stats, but they're saying it's IN ADDITION to usage stats, not in lieu of them.

In this instance, they're doing exactly what they said they're going to do----make adjustments based on performance AND make adjustments based on popularity.  And yes, I think that means we're still going to scratch our heads as to where some of this comes from.

Exactly. We don't even know how they define usage. Usage overall across all modes? Or do they look at them per mode? Also what do they define as performance? Performance against a bunch of level 10 chargers or how quickly it can kill a 150 corrupted gunner with no mods? Too many questions to say for sure. So that's why I take everything they say about rivens with a grain of salt. I would love to see the actual method DE is trying to make for dispos.

[GSDAkatsuki]

The nerfs are illogical as it's only towards a badly designed Eidolon Hunting. I actually use my Lanka for other content and my riven is specifically utility based +fire rate and -weapon zoom. If they want to nerf the sniper rivens then fix the goddamn snipers first. Make it where the buffs aren't tied to zoom anymore, snipers should be consistent in getting 100% crit rate from the get go, Lanka charge needs to be waaaay faster.

Edited April 4, 2019 by GSDAkatsuki

[(XBOX)caribious1]

I'm really feeling this post as some of these nerf make no sense. If this was a pvp environment I could understand, but someone's favorite weapon has no effect on me our how I play the game. Every individual is subject to a very random chance of every obtaining a riven much less getting a good roll. Now how are they being rewarded for enjoying a style or weapon that it probably took them months to obtain a riven plus get the perfect roll... Well they are told that you seem to be enjoying and having too much fun in our game. How dare you enjoy a play style that is conducive to you. 

I'm relatively new to the game but this feels like the same reason I had to walk away from destiny 1 and never look back. It's seems like they are creating issues and problems for issues and problems that don't exist. Some people like shotguns, some like auto rifles some like snipers. Some like fishing, mining hunting.

Please don't destroy a game that is very community oriented, as your teams is really refreshing group but rivens changes same rather pointless in this environment. 

God I hope they never nerf my favorite weapon and I hope they can adjust your back accordingly. 

Edited April 4, 2019 by (XB1)caribious1