Nullifiers, Equinox, Mesa, Chroma; Riven mods; ...and new Primed mods.

[Kuez]

Hello there! This topic is going to be all over the place, but I just wanted to spill out some thoughts out of my mind.

• As we all know... 

...recently Equinox Prime was released and since I love rocking orokin style fashion-frame, I didn't play her vanilla versions apart from Adaro (Ahh the begginings of focus farming and occasional equipment leveling).

Anyway - I brought up Equinox, because she has a problem and it indeed is - you guessed it - nullifiers.
(This topic could be widened; I could talk about armor and damage scaling, AI etc. being a problem, but I want to talk about this one specific thing right now)
I'm not talking about Dayform playstyle, but about Nightform playstyle and Peaceful Provocation build - while the formers' kit is fine, the latter's NEEDS work.

Pacify's effect decays over distance from Equinox.
"Maximized Ability Strength increases enemy damage reduction by a maximum of 87.86% (inner aura) and a minimum of 43.93% (outer aura)." - Source
...with maximum AS, while with sustainable build it's about... 70% damage reduction(?) in inner ring.
It is an aura that allies profit from automatically - true - but that's not enough to justify such a mechanic in my opinon. Is her Rest ability justification for such a burden? Still - I'm not convinced. You can't put nullifiers and enemies inside the bubble asleep.
Speaking of which, in addition they deal full damage and aren't affected by Peaceful Provocation slow in aforementioned.

Why don't we just... change it? Make Pacify a self-buff for Equinox and keep the aura effect with it's decay over distance from her, for allies.* (Gara can self-buff with, very easy to achieve statwise 90% damage reduction, which isn't mitigated by the fact that enemies are standing inside Nullifier's bubble and can apply this to her allies. With some cooperation, she can also refresh the duration on all of them as well.)

Now one more thing:

Recently I noticed that Mesa's Shatter Shield and Chroma's Vex Armor are NOT being disabled by nullifier bubbles.
Don't know when or where it came from, it just did. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Needless to say - I LOVE IT.

Spoiler

I tested it with pretty much all frames and only these two retained their 3rd abilities after entering Nullifier's bubble.

*It would also be nice for her Pacify to not get turned off when entering Nullifier's bubble. Loosing Peaceful Provocation "stacks" is also hell of a painful... Just sayin'.

I don't know, if it's DE's experimentation with Nullifiers or if they changed SS and VA accidentaly, but just to let them know - not loosing (at least) defensive abilities/ capabilities is great, awesome, wonderful, so on and so on.
We should implement it with more frames.

Because as we all know: It's better to buff, than to nerf something. It's PVE game after all!

Spoiler

Please don't nerf our cowgirl...
Please don't nerf our cowgirl...
Please don't nerf our cowgirl...
Please don't nerf our cowgirl...
Please don't nerf our cowgirl...

 

• About Riven mods and their nerfs.

This is going to be brief.
I feel like the system is fundamentally flawed. If I recall correctly DE said that Rivens were supposed to (paraphrasing) bring bad or unplayed weapons to, let's say more attractive state, however they're only taking statistics of usage into account.

"Akjagara: 1.43->1.25"; "Corinth: 1.05->0.95"; "Aklex: 0.92->0.85" - Source
I saw Akjagara being nerfed from parsecs away, but Corinth nerf hit me incredibly hard, because I rolled a very nice riven for it (Critical Chance, Fire Rate and Punch Through)
Problem is, that Corinth even with so called "Godlike" riven is still worse, than "Unrivened" Tigris Prime, maybe except larger magazine.

Spoiler

Another problem (but that's anegdotal evidence - it only applies to me) is that if it wasn't for my Riven, I would NOT play with Corinth, because what it needs is Fire Rate and Reload Speed to be pleasant to play with. Punch through is also a must have for me. If it wasn't for that Riven, I'd have to sacrifice a lot of damage, which would render the weapon quite useless for higher levels, which it already struggles with.

Then comes the Aklex nerf... WHO PLAYS WITH AKLEX THIS MUCH?!?!?!

For those who think that the system is fine, I've got an idea. Let's bring the whole community together, so that every single person equips and uses Kraken only... You see when I'm going with this, don't you..?
It should be about a weapon beeing bad/ good, not about weapon beeing unused/ used.

I don't exactly know how to fix this issue (let's be honest - this is an actual issue). I think that adjusting every single Riven for the weapon itself, rather than a statistic would be much, much better (Or buff the weapon itself, so that it doesn't need, that good of a Riven in a first place).
 

 

• Now onto Baro Ki'teer or rather his Primed Mods.

Dear DE, we do not like this:

 

We'd rather have more Primed Mods and I know, I know - you don't want to let powercreep take over completely, but for crying out loud, c'mon:


 

WE NEED THESE! (Edit: Well... I want these. )
(Disclaimer for those blindish and datamine beliving derps : THIS IS PHOTOSHOPPED [poorly, might I add ]  )

Fin.

Edited April 16, 2019 by Kuez

[Gawizard]

hmm, not to nitpick but i think that abilities should be disabled by a Nullifiers bubble, Even SS and VA, making more abilities resistant to nullifier bubbles makes the game more of a cake walk it already is. At the moment, its only the nullifier and Ancient healer that stops the current "DPS Meta" flooding the game by storm.  But its just an opinion.

 

[peterc3]

6 minutes ago, Kuez said:

Because as we all know: It's better to buff, than to nerf something. It's PVE game after all!

No it isn't. Balance means microscopically less to a PvE game than a PvP game, but it still matters. This is just flat out wrong and any thoughts that flow from that one are flawed.

9 minutes ago, Kuez said:

 It should be about a weapon beeing bad/ good, not about weapon beeing unused/ used.

The entire thing is about weapons being used or not used. That was the reason it was added.

[Gawizard]

Otherwise i can get down with the extra prime mods and the riven fix, maybe make the dispo cap larger to facilitate poor weapons.

[Kuez]

Just now, Gawizard said:

hmm, not to nitpick but i think that abilities should be disabled by a Nullifiers bubble, Even SS and VA, making more abilities resistant to nullifier bubbles makes the game more of a cake walk it already is. At the moment, its only the nullifier and Ancient healer that stops the current "DPS Meta" flooding the game by storm.  But its just an opinion.

I agree... but - try saying that in a MOT endurance run. 

[Gawizard]

Just now, peterc3 said:

The entire thing is about weapons being used or not used. That was the reason it was added.

right now rivens benefit the weapons being used way more than the weapons that never see the light of day, it still needs a rework.

[--END--Rikutatis]

7 minutes ago, Kuez said:

 

WE NEED THESE!

LOL, "need" is a strong word. Can you explain to me why exactly you (we) need those? With the current builds and mods we have available to us we can already one or two shot pretty much every single enemy, boss and piece of content currently available to us in the game. (outside of endurance runs that go for several hours, but those aren't supported by DE and give no rewards)

[Gawizard]

1 minute ago, Kuez said:

I agree... but - try saying that in a MOT endurance run. 

not really that bad since ancient healer spectres exist.

[peterc3]

1 minute ago, Gawizard said:

right now rivens benefit the weapons being used way more than the weapons that never see the light of day, it still needs a rework.

OK.

Why do RIvens need a rework when they aren't necessary to play the game, not taken into consideration for any content in the game, and not needed to use literally any weapon in any current or near future piece of content?

[Gawizard]

1 minute ago, peterc3 said:

OK.

Why do RIvens need a rework when they aren't necessary to play the game, not taken into consideration for any content in the game, and not needed to use literally any weapon in any current or near future piece of content?

because the impact they bring into gameplay cant be ignored. Sure you can do an eidolon hunt without a riven, hell even a tridolon hunt, maybe you can do 2 in a night, but from then it starts to rely on rivens to recreate the more common 5x3s and 6x3s. Ignoring its presence wont make them go away nor will it make them inferior to regular modding.

[Kuez]

6 minutes ago, --END--Rikutatis said:

LOL, "need" is a strong word. Can you explain to me why exactly you (we) need those? With the current builds and mods we have available to us we can already one or two shot pretty much every single enemy, boss and piece of content currently available to us in the game. (outside of endurance runs that go for several hours, but those aren't supported by DE and give no rewards)

I knew I shouldn't have used word "we"... 
When I saw Primed Animal Instinct I was really happy about extensing my arsenal.
It's about progress in a way... Who doesn't like getting even stronger in this game, anyway? I see such mods beeing problematic for sniper rifles, since they're already extremely powerful with Hunter Munitions builds, but for normal, automatic rifles, I wouldn't see even a slightest problem with such mods.

[peterc3]

3 minutes ago, Gawizard said:

because the impact they bring into gameplay cant be ignored.

They can be, and are, ignored. That is why Rivens are allowed to add so much. 

4 minutes ago, Gawizard said:

but from then it starts to rely on rivens to recreate the more common 5x3s and 6x3s.

Why is this a problem for DE? Oh players can't easily do 6x3s. Better make it easier? Make the case that DE would want more players to more easily do multiple Eidolon hunts a night.

[Gawizard]

funny how you ignored my point of the impact of rivens vs non rivens in eidolons and went straight to "This isnt DE's problem, so lets be oblivious". Wish you'd read everthing i typed and not choose what you want to read.

[Kuez]

5 hours ago, peterc3 said:

No it isn't. Balance means microscopically less to a PvE game than a PvP game, but it still matters.

I completely disagree with the "microscopically" part.
Don't get me wrong, I don't want to look like this...

...but to say that it's barely different is just wrong.
PVP games are supposed to make a level playing field for each player - that's what good PVP game is supposed to be.
PVE games differ, but ultimately they're meant to make the player stronger than AI (at least majority of them are) and Warframe is one of these games.

Of course - We still need balance, because if enemies weren't challenging the only thing Warframe would have going for it (exept progression), would be the way shooting (and oneshotting) enemies feels and I think we can all agree, that it feels pretty good.
The thing is, that in addition to that (apart from the main reason of playing Warframe - the feeling of progression) usually we also want challange.
One shotting enemies isn't challenging, but also being oneshotted isn't challenging (it's broken).

"Because as we all know: It's better to buff, than to nerf something. It's PVE game after all!"
Why I said that was because I feel I am advocating for fun. I'm not suggesting to make us invincible and able to kill everything with one click of a mouse button, but to not worry about it as much (balance).

Edited April 14, 2019 by Kuez

[(PSN)LoisGordils]

30 minutes ago, Gawizard said:

funny how you ignored my point of the impact of rivens vs non rivens in eidolons and went straight to "This isnt DE's problem, so lets be oblivious". Wish you'd read everthing i typed and not choose what you want to read.

Funny how you did the same thing on my last thread :]

[peterc3]

8 minutes ago, Kuez said:

Why I said that was because I feel I am advocating for fun.

This is the ultimate lose button. Just going to say right off the bat I don't speak for anyone but myself, but this is the most transparent, manipulative statement the community wields against DE.

Bugs are fun. OP weapons and frames are fun. Breaking the game to the point there isn't really a game there is fun. You don't fool me and you don't fool DE. Do better than this.

[Kuez]

1 minute ago, peterc3 said:

Breaking the game to the point there isn't really a game there is fun. You don't fool me and you don't fool DE. Do better than this.

12 minutes ago, Kuez said:

I'm not suggesting to make us invincible and able to kill everything with one click of a mouse button, but to not worry about it as much.

Excuse me..?

 

[ArachnidOverlord]

3 hours ago, Kuez said:

I don't know, if it's DE's experimentation with Nullifiers or if they changed SS and VA accidentaly, but just to let them know - not loosing (at least) defensive abilities/ capabilities is great, awesome, wonderful, so on and so on.
We should implement it with more frames.

 

WE NEED THESE! (Edit: Well... I want these. )
(Disclaimer for those blindish and datamine beliving derps : THIS IS PHOTOSHOPED [poorly, might I add ]  )

Fin.

I once again agree with the idea that nullifiers should only disable offensive abilities. I'd be perfectly fine with many more nullifiers in the game if they didn't disable things like iron skin that protect you or something/someone from damage. 

Also I don't quite see a point in arguing against more primed mods. So somebody else has more power? It's not like they're using this power against you? It doesn't make sense how people seem to be so upset about it. 

I think the idea of more primed mods is great. I'd love for there to be plenty more primed mods in this game. Even more umbral mods to increase the set bonus. Being powerful isn't much of a problem because there are modes to compensate for that. And once again this isn't a PVP game how is someone on your team being marginally more powerful then before breaking the game? If  the game is too easy go play arbitrations, then it's not so easy. And if arbitrations become too easy then I wouldn't be surprised if DE eventually came out with something even tougher, like nightmare arbitrations or something lol.

Also I think they should add primary and secondary umbral mods too because more power is great, especially against exponentially scaling grineer

[Kuez]

I don't exactly know what you meant by all these "once again"s, but you seem to get my point @ArachnidOverlord...

Spoiler

Yay..!

 

2 hours ago, ArachnidOverlord said:

-If  the game is too easy go play arbitrations, then it's not so easy. And if arbitrations become too easy then I wouldn't be surprised if DE eventually came out with something even tougher, like nightmare arbitrations or something lol.
-Also I think they should add primary and secondary umbral mods too because more power is great, especially against exponentially scaling grineer

-A lot of people are using Inaros in Arbitrations, I wonder why... Ow yea - to not die. He can also take advantage of Covert Lethality. We could talk about Ivara and her ultimate survivability ability (stealth) and kit allowing to crowd control... and use CL. We've got Saryn for ESO - I don't think I have to say anything in her instance.

I don't think the game is balanced... I also don't think it should be(..?) I feel like I don't want it to get completely out of hands, but then again saying that lack of balance is going to make us literal gods in the game and make it unchallenging sounds like slippery slope.
At one point not a single Warframe is strong enough to kill something without a oneshot mechanic, such as Covert Lethality. There's a problem though - we have to make such a gamemode, challange (call it however you like) by ourselves - we have to sit in a mission for tens if not hundreds of minutes to get to that point.

-Epecially against exponentially scaling grineer - I think that's the essence. On one side we've got enemies which don't do any damage to us and get obliterated even if we look at them, on the other side we've got bulletsponges which reverse aforementioned - we evaporate when they look at us.

I even though we should make enemies deal set amount of damage and instead of that challange, coming from scaling, improve AI greatly instead, but then progression would be quite pointless - the game would be the same, at any point in the game.

Edited April 14, 2019 by Kuez

[DarkRuler2500]

vor 5 Stunden schrieb Kuez:

We'd rather have more Primed Mods and I know, I know - you don't want to let powercreep take over completely, but for crying out loud, c'mon:


 

WE NEED THESE! (Edit: Well... I want these. )

Would love Primed Hammershot and Primed Seeking Fury.
But I doubt the Point Strike is ever going to get primed as it would make some weps easily go below 100% or even beyond.

[Kuez]

9 minutes ago, DarkRuler2500 said:

Would love Primed Hammershot and Primed Seeking Fury.
But I doubt the Point Strike is ever going to get primed as it would make some weps easily go below 100% or even beyond.

I feel the same. These two could be quite likely to appear.
For the others - maybe some day...
By the way what do you mean by "easily going below(?) 100% or even beyond"? I think you haven't written everything you wanted or as you wanted to do. 

[DarkRuler2500]

vor 5 Minuten schrieb Kuez:

I feel the same. These two could be quite likely to appear.
For the others - maybe some day...
By the way what do you mean by "easily going below(?) 100% or even beyond"? I think you haven't written everything you wanted or as you wanted to do. 

Yeah, i meant at 100% or even beyond.
Need COFFEE.

btw how did you make the "primed mod fakes"?

Edited April 14, 2019 by DarkRuler2500

[Kuez]

6 minutes ago, DarkRuler2500 said:

Yeah, i meant at 100% or even beyond.

Okay, but beyond what?

6 minutes ago, DarkRuler2500 said:

btw how did you make the "primed mod fakes"?

<cough> <cough>

6 hours ago, Kuez said:

(Disclaimer for those blindish and datamine beliving derps : THIS IS PHOTOSHOPPED [poorly, might I add ]  )

 

Edited April 14, 2019 by Kuez

[DarkRuler2500]

vor 59 Minuten schrieb Kuez:

(Disclaimer for those blindish and datamine beliving derps : THIS IS PHOTOSHOPPED [poorly, might I add ]  )

I know its photoshopped... i just wanted to ask how you did it.
Are there templates out there?

I was doing a few mods on my own with some external software and it looks alot crappier than yours. 😄

[Kuez]

14 minutes ago, DarkRuler2500 said:

I know its photoshopped... i just wanted to ask how you did it.
Are there templates out there?

I was doing a few mods on my own with some external software and it looks alot crappier than yours. 😄

I just saved a normal version of a Mod, random Primed Mod,
separated the Primed Mod's frame, moved it over the standard one,
played with colors a bit, mixed numbers and added a bar with "Primed" on it for some... immersion.