Whats the point of having choice of archwings in Open worlds

[Schrimmseschrammse666]

Hello

What i want to talk about is archwings in open worlds, the problem is that the large ammount of enemies with "surface air missles" that oneshot your archwing regardless of armor,health,shield or active abilities make all of those defensive abilities and survivability values pointless for using archwing in a offensive manner for open worlds. meaning you cannot bombard enemies, try to get some sort of "positional advantage" by being in the air or anything like that.

then because of those hard to avoid missle attacks you are sabotaged in using your active abilities, and the fact that these missles oneshot you makes archwings questionable for combat anyway so what else do we have? it doesent matter what stats your archwing has other than perhaps speed to fly around, and almost all of the abilities are useless because enemies can snap your jetpack out of existence. the one thing we have is Itzals teleport ability wich DE is going to remove. Teleport IMO is the only really useful ability as it has not much to do with combat and it supports the only thing we can actually do with archwings : Traveling.

and now that DE is removing that teleport suddenly to me it seems that it doesent matter at all what archwing you choose because stats dont matter when enemies can "no u" you out of the sky and i had no luck using any active abilities like dissaray or watchful swarm. instead of designing enemies to counter people bringing death from above they gave common enemies Anti air missles that disregard any defense you may have.

i'm just sad that we cannot use archwings in open world missions in any meaningful way that isn't "going from point A to point B". the way i see it once the one mobility ability is gone all archwings are equally bad in open worlds and if we want to play air support all that is left to us is zephyr (and technically hildryn but nah)

[Acos]

My hope is that they revisit AW one day and make it part of the game instead of a side project that never really got off the ground (heh). 

A better model for AW would be that once it runs out of health it is essentially "dead" and then goes into a cooldown until you can use it again. Seems like a simple change that would allow AW to start being more than just a fancy air-skateboard. 

[AvPCelticPredator]

The point is to fly like a bird and imagine that u are bird not a Tenno! 😁

[Zelmen]

It feels like the transfer from spawn missions to open world still needs a lot of help. Not sure if the space enemy were just that weak to open world ones or what. Would be nice to see a better blend of the two. Hopefully things will get better with Railjack.

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

i just wonder why in arch wing mode you can use the arch guns in open world 

[(XBOX)DA ZACHYZACHY]

11 minutes ago, Zelmen said:

It feels like the transfer from spawn missions to open world still needs a lot of help. Not sure if the space enemy were just that weak to open world ones or what. Would be nice to see a better blend of the two. Hopefully things will get better with Railjack.

Yes I notice that OV enemies are a lot tougher than normal enemies.

[Daiwulf]

I use Itzal in the plains/vallis, not only for travelling, but also for combat. I spend like 90% of the time in AW during bounties.
The 1st ability, the blink, is mainly for travelling, but it is very useful when there is a missile locked at you because for 17 energy you dodge it, or to close the gap to an enemy.
The 2nd ability, invisibility, is very useful to activate above an objective and use sniper/AoE weapons. I do this a lot and it's one of the best ways to have a good overview of the area to kill enemies even before they drop from ships.
The 3rd ability, pull, can help gathering drops/ammo due to the incredible force of will DE has to not add universal vacuums to warframes/AWs, but is still inferior to dismounting and remounting again (to show how much sentinel/pet vacuum is needed).
The 4th ability... summon somethings that... do nothing at all basically...

My strategy: stay on top of point, go invisible, vectis prime to kill single heavy targets on the ground, staticor to shower death upon the entire field. When a dropship comes, i blink to it and point-blank shoot a charged staticor shot in it to kill every unit before they can land. Go back to point, invisible and repeat. Easy win, very low risk of dying, no chance at all of losing the objective because you don't let enemies come close to it.

Of course I'm talking about this specific AW, I agree that the others are much inferior and, even with all that, the Itzal is still vulnerable to 1-shots from ballistas that you can't even see while you're just flying by or while moving a drone.

Things that can be improved: lock the camera to unable rolling. make it survive more than 1 shot from a ballista. Warn when a sniper is locking into you like the missiles. When it gets destroyed, add a 15s before it can be used again. Add Vacuum. Improve mobility/utility for other AWs.

[Ottofyre]

21 minutes ago, Schrimmseschrammse666 said:

now that DE is removing that teleport

That's a little premature since not all the devs are on board with that.

Scott likened Blink to 'coptering back in the day - saying it removed choice since if you wanted the speed you had to take specific weapons. I'd argue that prioritizing speed over all other considerations *is* a choice. Just like how prioritizing vacuum over pet utility was a choice. Choice hasn't been removed, exactly, but what makes it a problem is that a large percentage of players see the option as a necessity. 

But they solved 'coptering by giving us a better, more fun movement system. (And they solved the vacuum issue by giving us Fetch). The fact that people 'coptered back in the day showed the game had a problem. The fact that they spam Blink now is, again, an indication of a problem.

I could only agree with nerfing Blink if it's being done because of problems inside actual AW content. I also want to point out - I take Itzal for Penumbra, I use Blink because I'm in Itzal anyway. Other people have said they take Itzal for Crush. A part of the problem is that Itzal is the only AW that offers real utility in open world. What percentage of players using Blink only do it because they took Itzal for some other reason?

I'm of the opinion that a better option, instead of nerfing any AW because of open world (which they were never designed for), would be to remove them from open world and give us another flying vehicle type specifically designed for it. Because realistically they cannot fix the issues with AW in open world without redesigning all the AWs... and then redesigning all the AW missions to factor in the new AW design.

Or maybe I'm wrong and they'll come up with some elegant solution to everything. It certainly wouldn't be the first time. Or maybe they were already planning on a complete AW redesign anyway.

But back to the main topic - I pretty much agree that the big problem with AWs overall in open world is the massive amount of AA and the AWs limited ability to counter it. Odenata can actually be swatted out of the sky by a 2nd AA volley while flares are still in the air. Odenata is my favorite AW but its countermeasure is completely ineffective in open world. It would be nice if evasive maneuvers could break a missile lock.

[Schrimmseschrammse666]

i am sure Open world archwing would be alot more enjoyable if you could pick an archwing other than itzal and not immediately die to AA, turrets or snipers and your health+shields actually mattered