Started as warframe rivens. Is now an evolving warframe balance idea.

[Neightrix]

2 hours ago, zhellon said:

Now change the strength to radius and duration and try again. Weapons the same, there is a weapon that cannot crit, but it does not mean that riven is useless for them, just need another stat. Here the problem is different. The riven system can make it clear that there will be no more reworks and the old warframes will remain at the bottom even with riven like many guns now.

I get what you're saying, but weapons are meant to deal damage and occasionally have an extra attribute - while warframes do many things. That's not really the meat of the argument anyway. Warframe rivens were discovered in the game's code over two years ago, and the community was NOT happy. Reb made a response post explaining there were no plans to make them available, quelling the concerns. I'm really just repeating the best arguments against warframe rivens that were made at the time. If you think you can defeat those arguments and convince everyone warframe rivens should be a thing, I've got nothing against you trying.

My personal argument against warframe rivens would have more to do with Warframe being dirt easy, once you understand what's going on of course. So much community focus going into the player-side that enemies are left behind and most of the game's 'challenge' is just scaling stats. It's cool to want more power goals for players but I wish there was a broader emphasis on making the game more engaging rather than merely a forever-farm. If enemies were more fun to fight and brought different gimmicks to fighting players, then warframe could have more use cases and become easier to balance - possibly making warframe rivens more justified and accepted if there was less disparity between them.

[--Aegis--MR9]

Warframes are very powerful, too powerful than any threats, we dont need to buff em up in the name of balancing. 
Do you even trust DE to execute it properly? 
As much I would love to see a riven for my mesa, its just gonna be a-mess. 

[(XBOX)Architect Prime]

3 hours ago, zhellon said:

Now change the strength to radius and duration and try again. Weapons the same, there is a weapon that cannot crit, but it does not mean that riven is useless for them, just need another stat. Here the problem is different. The riven system can make it clear that there will be no more reworks and the old warframes will remain at the bottom even with riven like many guns now.

If ember had infinite strength, fireball would one shot everything in the game because accelerant.

[Aldain]

2 hours ago, MR9BCI said:

As much I would love to see a riven for my mesa, its just gonna be a-mess. 

The pun would have worked better if it was "a Mess-a" but A+ for effort.

[(XBOX)Architect Prime]

13 hours ago, Neightrix said:

I get what you're saying, but weapons are meant to deal damage and occasionally have an extra attribute - while warframes do many things. That's not really the meat of the argument anyway. Warframe rivens were discovered in the game's code over two years ago, and the community was NOT happy. Reb made a response post explaining there were no plans to make them available, quelling the concerns. I'm really just repeating the best arguments against warframe rivens that were made at the time. If you think you can defeat those arguments and convince everyone warframe rivens should be a thing, I've got nothing against you trying.

My personal argument against warframe rivens would have more to do with Warframe being dirt easy, once you understand what's going on of course. So much community focus going into the player-side that enemies are left behind and most of the game's 'challenge' is just scaling stats. It's cool to want more power goals for players but I wish there was a broader emphasis on making the game more engaging rather than merely a forever-farm. If enemies were more fun to fight and brought different gimmicks to fighting players, then warframe could have more use cases and become easier to balance - possibly making warframe rivens more justified and accepted if there was less disparity between them.

There you go. The endgame of this thread.

[Guest]

17 hours ago, Neightrix said:

Even if you give Ember infinite strength, her Fireball is still useless.

Ember's damage scales with Power Strength.

Now, if Fireball dealt infinite damage, this implies one shotting everything in Warframe up to level cap. Which means even a Nox would be annihilated.

This would also imply Accelerant buffed heat damage by infinity, automatically turning unmodded Jat Kusars, Ignises and Kreskas into one shot monsters.

And would imply Fireblast dealt infinite heat damage that also one shots everything through walls.

WoF is self explanatory.

Only nullifiers would be a threat to her if this happened.

You may want a better example...

Edited July 17, 2019 by Guest

[Doomsknightmare]

It's very bold of you to suggest the idea of warframe riven & new endgame scaling, thumb up for you my friend 

If DE can adjust warframe riven disposition accordingly, then the fear of "OP frames get more OP with riven" will be gone.

[selig_fay]

il y a 8 minutes, Doomsknight a dit :

If DE can adjust warframe riven disposition accordingly, then the fear of "OP frames get more OP with riven" will be gone.

That's right - it's like? Regarding what should it be determined?

[(XBOX)Zweimander]

NO...

[Aldain]

4 hours ago, Doomsknight said:

If DE can adjust warframe riven disposition accordingly, then the fear of "OP frames get more OP with riven" will be gone.

...Have you even been in one of the hundreds of threads of people crying about minor losses in damage from disposition nerfs before?

If weapons are already this bad what kind of meltdowns do you think that Sayrn or Mesa players would have when their "300% Ability Strength" riven gets nerfed down to 150% or less?

[Doomsknightmare]

34 minutes ago, Aldain said:

...Have you even been in one of the hundreds of threads of people crying about minor losses in damage from disposition nerfs before?

If weapons are already this bad what kind of meltdowns do you think that Sayrn or Mesa players would have when their "300% Ability Strength" riven gets nerfed down to 150% or less?

First, popular frames like Saryn or Mesa will get 1/5 disposition so no worry my dear :)

[Aldain]

40 minutes ago, Doomsknight said:

First, popular frames like Saryn or Mesa will get 1/5 disposition so no worry my dear 🙂

Understandable, but my faith that players of those frames wouldn't be rioting over starting that low is so low that its likely negative.

[(XBOX)Architect Prime]

I like the idea of adaptive stats that decrease if you spam too much. 

Oh and increase if you wait a while. 

Edited July 17, 2019 by (XB1)Architect Prime

[SecSicario]

On 2019-07-16 at 5:05 AM, Oreades said:

I wouldn't mind seeing some Exaulted Rivens to be honest.

Not sure that I'd want to see actual Warframe Rivens considering DE already had a beast of a time balancing Warframes themselves. I mean the reason they ultimately nerfed the everloving snot out of Ember can essentially be traced back to (IMHO) the addition of Auger Reach to the game which cranked people who where already running max ranged builds right up to 11. I can only cringe at all the additional hamfisted changes that Frames would get hobbled with in an attempt to reign in godtier Warframe Rivens. It just wouldn't work. 

 Didn't they nerf Ember cause some few individuals couldn't deal with Ember showing up on low level tilesets? 

Edited July 18, 2019 by SecSicario
Typos

[SecSicario]

On 2019-07-16 at 6:46 PM, Neightrix said:

The concept of rivens for weapons can make sense because you progress through weapons for mastery and leave many of them behind. This was not how they worked out for at least the first two years, and you can easily argue DE's stated goal with rivens was not honest because the weapons still desperately needed rebalancing (which they did eventually do really well) - but at least their stated goal makes sense in theory.

Warframes are not like this. While it is okay for frames to not be perfectly balanced or equal, it is DE's job to work out their balance and roles - not put rivens into the game and accept some warframes should simply be worse.

Additionally, with how limited enemies are in their ability to make players engage them, even crazy stats would not allow some frames to see greater success. Even if you gave Zephyr infinite strength, she can't do what Saryn does. Even if you give Ember infinite strength, her Fireball is still useless.

👀Not gonna lie, I'd love to see Ember with infinite strength

DE if you can make this happen for just one day

Just one day😂😂

[SecSicario]

10 hours ago, Aldain said:

...Have you even been in one of the hundreds of threads of people crying about minor losses in damage from disposition nerfs before?

If weapons are already this bad what kind of meltdowns do you think that Sayrn or Mesa players would have when their "300% Ability Strength" riven gets nerfed down to 150% or less?

😂😂😂On the bright side, region chat would be super lit no doubt

[SecSicario]

But in all honesty we know warframe rivens are going to be incorporated into the game soon enough (okay maybe not soon.. Give or take a few years) hopefully by then they'll have tweaked the enemies difficulty to be more oriented to real difficulty as opposed to just being bullet sponges

 

But then again, with a synchronizes squad, you can literally stay in endless missions (not you disruption) till you break the spawn rate

So i guess it's DEs way of saying, get friends, git GUD or suck it

[(XBOX)Zweimander]

16 minutes ago, moostar95 said:

YES YES YES........ Y.   E.   S 

I'm sorry but is that a JOJO meme XD

[Blexander]

2 hours ago, SecSicario said:

Didn't they nerf Ember cause some few individuals couldn't deal with Ember showing up on low level tilesets? 

They most certainly did.