We deserve a central trading hub.

[FerockQuartz]

Why not DE make a seasonal bazaar (par with a garage sale style)? give it 1 or two weeks? Registrations cost like x amount of plat - I doubt DE benefits on those Cetus market vendors which is actually just for environment design sake...

[(PSN)BattleCry1791]

8 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Just about everything you said was valid except for this part, I figure. 

The cost of each purchase would be lower, but so is the amount earned from each sale. I figure that it'll be even worse than what you suggested where 5-10 p items rapidly become 1-2p items over a few months as the smaller sums of plat most free players have managed to earn dry up. 

With an auction house, and the amount of undercutting it would allow, earning plat will become harder, so newbs will struggle even more, to buy slots and market items.... Unless they can afford to buy plat. 

See, now you're starting to see the bigger picture.  

Right now warframe has a good balance of grind for free vs micro to success!.  A hub will destroy that.  Now, is there a chance it could increase plat sales as you've outlined?   Sure.  Is it the most likely?  No.

A lot of people play F2P games because they are F2P.  Any move that shifts the balance towards micro transactions and away from grind for free would not just create an economic immediate impact, but it would set the forums on fire.

"PAY TO WIN!!!!!!!" would be the rallying cry of anyone with less than a hundred hours

"GAMES DEAD!!!!DE NEEDS MONEY!!!!" would be the rallying cry of anyone with over 1k hours.

And then...self fulfilling prophecy.

The current trade system "works".  There's nothing "wrong with it".  It could be more efficient, but not at the expense of what it would cause.  

All changes in life start with conversations.  So imagine you are sitting around the conference table at DE and they are discussing this very subject.  At some point the conversation goes here:
"What's a possible negative outcome?" and the answer is what I've listed previously.  And after that...lock thread. 

[(XBOX)DracoYac]

Trade chat should not be called "trade" chat. It's now a community store that almost always deals in plat not trading items. There definitely needs to be a trade/auction house with some stability. Not just a horde of people screaming "WTS for plat". Whatever happened to the trade part of it all??

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)BattleCry1791 said:

See, now you're starting to see the bigger picture.  

Dude, take a good look at the thread and all recent threads about auction houses and in game markets. I've been preaching all of what you said for a long time, with the exception of the "nobody would buy plat anymore" which is not a realistic prediction in my view. 

6 minutes ago, (PS4)BattleCry1791 said:

Right now warframe has a good balance of grind for free vs micro to success!.  A hub will destroy that.  Now, is there a chance it could increase plat sales as you've outlined?   Sure.  Is it the most likely?  No.

Whether it's most likely, is not a simple call. There's no current model as far as I know that adequately matches our in-game economy. The smaller plat purchases would most likely go up, the few larger purchases down. There's probably less impact from the discounts on the smaller sales, so possibly more direct revenue. The question becomes does an increase in small transactions work out to more than the losses from fewer large transactions. That's a question for the Magic 8ball if I've ever seen one. 

16 minutes ago, (PS4)BattleCry1791 said:

A lot of people play F2P games because they are F2P.  Any move that shifts the balance towards micro transactions and away from grind for free would not just create an economic immediate impact, but it would set the forums on fire.

"PAY TO WIN!!!!!!!" would be the rallying cry of anyone with less than a hundred hours

"GAMES DEAD!!!!DE NEEDS MONEY!!!!" would be the rallying cry of anyone with over 1k hours.

And then...self fulfilling prophecy.

Nothing to do with what we're discussing. 

16 minutes ago, (PS4)BattleCry1791 said:

The current trade system "works".  There's nothing "wrong with it".  It could be more efficient, but not at the expense of what it would cause.  

Agreed on all counts. The major complaints I've seen is from people who believe that they deserve more for their items (which is nonsense); and the people who believe that if it was easier to sell the junk that nobody wants, that they'd make more (also nonsense). Neither group seems to be thinking about what would be good for the game. 

20 minutes ago, (PS4)BattleCry1791 said:

All changes in life start with conversations.  So imagine you are sitting around the conference table at DE and they are discussing this very subject.  At some point the conversation goes here:
"What's a possible negative outcome?" and the answer is what I've listed previously.  And after that...lock thread. 

I don't disagree with you about the obvious terrible impact, and understand the reasons why you'd suggest closing the threads like this. But I have also seen people like us making very logical arguments in every single thread about this topic. 

I keep hoping that at some point the rest of the contributors read them and start to use their heads. 

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

Just now, (XB1)DracoYac said:

Trade chat should not be called "trade" chat. It's now a community store that almost always deals in plat not trading items. There definitely needs to be a trade/auction house with some stability. Not just a horde of people screaming "WTS for plat". Whatever happened to the trade part of it all??

You may want to consider checking out the meaning of the word "trade". Just saying. 

[(XBOX)DracoYac]

Lol using a monetary value to acquire an item is purchasing. Trading would be non monetary swapping. So yeah unfortunately its purchasing. Don't get me wrong I'm not against it, it's just there's no longer "trading" per se, only community purchases. Need to separate them a bit so those who just looking to item trade not get lost in the crowd.

[Jax_Cavalera]

I'd love to see some Dojo setups designed like a swap-meet. Maroos seems the obvious choice for a swap-meet but you are limited to what type of things you can do there vs going to a dojo where you can tweak your loadout, launch missions, train up and soon board a railjack thing.

As for providing a better trading experience I still think DE would be fine to create a UI where

• Players can list gear they want to sell
• Items remain listed for X time
• Regular items have a Min / Max based on the historical median selling price over the past 2 months
• Rivens would be fine without any price limitations
• Has the ability to filter results by keyword(s)
• Limit number of items that can be listed for sale at a given time - Items are automatically returned to inventory if not sold after 2 months
• Uses a shopping cart system so all purchases added to cart then checkout to reduce server load when buying in bulk
• Trade Boosters  -  Players can purchase trade boosters for X plat
  • Can view a sales history from the last 2 months on any listed items
    • Temporary
    • Expires after 2 months
    • Can stack like other boosters
  • Increase available listing slots by 5
    • Permanent
    • Has hard cap like riven mod slots
  • Featured Item Banner - Book out a 1 hour slot where your chosen item will be promoted
    • Limit of once per player per 48 hours
    • Plat cost TBD (may differ based on peak / off-peak)
    • If more than 1 of the item is listed at the same price it displays the QTY available
    • Doesn't need to be the cheapest offer listed to be promoted

Well that's the thought

[(XBOX)The Neko Otaku]

A trade hub, so maroos bazaar

[Shaburanigud]

To be honest, I think if the game would have an auction house just for Rivens, everything would be fine.

Trade chat won't be filled with Dumps and dumps of riven sellers shouting, while also keeping the economy healthy

Trade chat is such a pain in the ass because of all that riven spam, would love to see that go away as well as lower the price of some overpriced rivens.

[Lord-KEK]

On 2019-09-05 at 4:56 AM, (PS4)BattleCry1791 said:

Oh look another junior economist that doesn't understand that a Market is not a game of Monopoly.

This is a game that works with artificial currency not the stock market...

On 2019-09-05 at 4:56 AM, (PS4)BattleCry1791 said:

A Market is indeed dictated by supply and demand, but that ebb and flow is cyclic based on the mechanisms that drive the market.  Warframe is a want based economy, not need based.  So the Buyer's dictate the price, not the Seller (Seller can only price what they think will sell at).  This creates a natural price point based not just on the want itself, but the frequency of the want.  It's not just about goods and trade, it's about activity and the amount of it.  The current model requires a considerable timesink that reduces trade frequency and makes outright buying plat an easier option.  Currently:

what a bunch of gibberish

Supply: current stock of X item (based on overall availability of X and amount of sellers of X at any given time)

Demand: Number of players interested in buying said item. (assuming they have plat to engage in trade)

when supply is high and demand is low, prices go down, when demand is high and supply is low prices go up, your "want" based explanation is gibberish.  

market stability is when supply and demand are close to equal

On 2019-09-05 at 4:56 AM, (PS4)BattleCry1791 said:

Because of the nature of the Hub this also means you can trade more at a time with less energy and time spent  This leads to more trade activity overall.  At insanely reduced prices.

There is no "wiping the board" and starting from scratch in Warframe like in Monopoly.  If you throw up a hub, you'll have to contend with things like this; 

there are 2 systems already in the game that effectively limit market flooding, Taxes and Daily Trade Limits. if properly tweaked, market flooding will not happen as dramatically as you think. you have 10.000 relics? well to bad you only have 27 (at most) daily trades. and if u go AFK trade every day you may end up with no credits, thus putting you in the position to grind creds.

On 2019-09-05 at 4:56 AM, (PS4)BattleCry1791 said:

If they opened up a hub, the flood of goods into the Market would lower prices so dramatically that dramatically isn't an accurate word to use.  It doesn't really throw in the ZING factor.

Items stay on a hub listing for 48 hours (or 72, depends on the model) and its a continuous loop of undercutting.  I've even seen "big wallet" players intentionally buy out lower priced items to jack up their own prices on those same items...only to be undercut by...well, me...just hours later.  

And that is the beauty of the free market, itself regulates, isn't that wonderful? 

On 2019-09-05 at 4:56 AM, (PS4)BattleCry1791 said:

A hub at this point in the game's lifecycle would cause havoc with existing natural market pricing and lower the need for plat.  A lot of transactions are at the 5-10p level, with a hub they're at the 3-5p level and maybe less than that.  

it will actually make plat purchases more appealing, more stuff to buy at cheap prices. like a supermarket

On 2019-09-05 at 4:56 AM, (PS4)BattleCry1791 said:

And since there is no subscription for warframe, DE absolutely depends on microtransactions funded by currency purchases. 

I don't need to verify that Honda sells cars with engines and tires, and I don't need to understand that micro transactions coupled with access (which works like a DLC release) is the primary way DE monetizes warframe.  Because that's how the system works across the board.  EA made 1.68 billion dollars through "microtransactions" in 2018.  2K, Daybreak, Blizzard...you name it, they all pimp their in-game currencies for a reason - for games that they sold for 60-100 dollars(US) or have a monthly/yearly subscription.  And a Loot Box is just another form of plat.  
Merch sales?  Sure there is.  Primary income is tied to plat. Merch sales doesn't drive player retention.  

And here's the thing, I don't disagree that a hub is a far better way to go for the playerbase itself.  But you're throwing the baby out with the bathwater and harming the game to the point where you may kill it.  The only way I could see a hub as viable...is for Warframe to adopt a subscription service.

If you want to prove me wrong, find me a free to play game with a trading hub (And DCUO doesn't count, you have to pay to use the hub).  There's a fiscal reason it isn't done in Warframe.

more gibberish and Non Sequitur
show me DE financial records if you are soo sure of what you are saying.
also warframe.market is a thing, and although not all players are aware of its existence, most experienced traders use it as a reference to price their goods(across all platforms mind you), so functionally speaking the AA already exists outside the game.

and yes traders do undercut each other in WM all the time, and the economy hasn't collapsed yet, in fact it has thrived, but it still clunky, inefficient and a time waste.
this game is mostly about killing stuff and getting cool loot, not sitting around an ugly relay waiting for someone to message me tru a primitive chat window, just for them to cancel the trade at the last second wasting my valuable time.

Edited September 6, 2019 by Lord-KEK

[(PSN)BattleCry1791]

1 hour ago, Lord-KEK said:

A bunch of drek

So sad.  Ya just make me so sad. The hard part about arguing with a psuedo intellectual is that they seem intelligent until they actually start talking content.  

It's hard to have a discussion about economics with someone that doesn't even have their own philosophy fully fleshed out. Couple of things:

• The term market doesn't apply to the stock market, in fact, the term market alludes to...A MARKET.  But not a super market. Think more like ancient roman market.  Or better yet, a bazaar.  where haggling and price setting are the norm.  So anytime there is a good or service being "sold"...that's part of a larger Market of some kind.  The term existed before the stock market existed. In fact, the stock market is a type of market...for stocks...LIKE IT SAYS IN THE NAME.....STOCK MARKET

 

• You can't say "free market" and then immediately offer regulation as a "solution" to a counterpoint. Either you support a "free market" (which means you support monopolies and don't believe in Anti Trust laws) or you don't.  If you espouse one but then need the other to make your concept work, why should anyone take stock (see what I did there?) in anything you have to say? 

 

• Using statements like "do you have DE's financial records" to try to disprove my argument is just obtuse.  I don't have McDonald's records but I can tell you two things: Their largest profit is from hamburgers, but their biggest margin per item is soft drinks.  Can I prove that beyond all doubt since i don't have their financial statements in front of me?  Nope.  Am I likely correct on both points?  Yep.  I don't need specifics if there's a shared structure to how gaming generates money.  Basic Market economics haven't changed in 5000 years.  We just keep complicating it and creating stupid things like derivatives.     

And here's something you haven't realized:

You are passionately arguing for a trade hub to save you time.  Because the current trade system is clunky and outright frustrating.  And I agree that it is; it's why I just by prime access now.   If you make trading the time saver, with the existing amount of plat out there, I won't have to buy plat.  I can just trade.  Reduced prices means an almost level playing field for plat.  If everything is in the 1-10p range because the market get's flooded with everything (and it will...no...just sit down and be quiet, it will), then all you're really doing is recirculating currency.  Won't take too long to drop plat sales which means that DE will have to charge more per item for things that can't be traded or install a sub service. 

Sweeping changes in a game's economy is what kills communities. Is it worth killing Warframe just so you can win an argument on the internet? 

You strike me as one of those guys that just says whatever they think will "win the argument".  Whether you believe it or not doesn't even matter.  You just want to "win" so you spew utter nonsense that isn't even consistent.  Because of that...I'm done with you.