Nyx Rework should be finished

[Enchillado]

1 hour ago, NuclearCoffeePot said:

Everybody has different opinions. Ive talked to plenty of players. Some want qol changes for nyx. Some like you offer changes to some abilities mechanics but not to drastic, others want a complete kit rework- What matters isnt keeping the kit to me. Its keeping the theme and how you want to play nyx- To me thats wide range cc or having mind slaves kill things for you. Thats the essence of what nyx is meant to be. Also if you read most of that page youll know that i agknowledge the fact that the changes are very drastic and make it clear that this is not a final iteration. Its a rough concept that with the help of community feedback i want to flesh out to fit their needs. Thanks to peoples feedback i am in the process of doing just that,

I'm not judging. Or... I'm judging the link spread. So it's not your problem. Your goals are fine to me, I wouldn't mind checking such a rework if it was that easy. Just sharing my preference.

[NuclearCoffeePot]

3 minutes ago, Enchillado said:

I'm not judging. Or... I'm judging the link spread. So it's not your problem. Your goals are fine to me, I wouldn't mind checking such a rework if it was that easy. Just sharing my preference.

🙂

[Enchillado]

14 minutes ago, Zilotz said:

I would make it up to 5 enemies with replacing(targeting 6th will cancel 1st).

Why? Because we need some distraction in cases when there are nullies and leeches(both can be at same time).

But on the other hand there will be no more augment that boosts damage several times for servant directly.

Here it's fun... BUT there is some fatal downside - often you are aimed from 4 to 8 directions and having like 0.1 to 1s to react.

I would add to the charge a small field around Nyx (2m base) that will do the same - absorb the damage.

So instead of N======> will be 0=======> with Nyx in the short-living bubble.

I would add bubble popping(aiming at drone at bubble top and then exploding backpack with 3xnully damage) as priority for bolts(as currently no frame pops bubbles directly).

Why? Because at many angles nullies are hard to kill directly and their bubbles come thru walls.

I would make some realignments in aggro at all.

First class targets - Absorb, Octavia's Mallet, Rhino when gaining Iron Skin(only invulnerable time).

Second class are Saryn and Loki decoys, enemies on Khora's dome, enemies under chaos effect(or similar effects like radiation or Revenant's slaves).

Third - Normal Warframes/Operators without invisibility(having radiation status will put you to second class for status duration).

Fourth - Invisible Warframes that make sounds(shooting non-silenced weapons).

Fifth - Defense / Interception/ Rescue / Defection and on targets around.

How it works - if any target of First class is present all fire gets there. If Second class is present - it gets all fire if there is no first class. And so on.

It's very simple to implement on code level and will be good for playing(as abilities will not draw more fire than they need and will keep players safe if they meet well the conditions).

Also chaos and/or passive will reverse energy drain from any eximuses affected and from magnetic procs from enemies in range of casting even if not affected(including Eidolons,Hyenas, Vey Hek and on), does not include trap doors(Grineer) or magnetized water(PoE).

I would do additional 10(based on str) ticks of every combined damage in range per second for 4(based on duration) seconds with 100% status chance, also pokes nully bubbles in range.

Why? To make it usable for high-level content. As for high-level mobs their own damage(compared to enemy HP/Armor/Shield scaling) is just tickles it would make a good chunk of damage.

Also after skill ends for any reason(even contacting nully bubble) it releases all damage and gives invulnerability for 5 seconds.

 

You have some good points here and there, but I've noticed you're low-key trying to suggest one step further into means against biggest obstacles this game currently has. I don't remember any example of having a special function against such nemesis as nullifying orbs, leeches. It's a problem for every warframe in the game, I feel like. Doing something like that is scary.

[Zilotz]

1 minute ago, Enchillado said:

It's a problem for every warframe in the game

Nope, not for every frame.

Inaros/Nidus usually don't care at all for nully bubbles as long as they can have enough health/stacks.

Hildryn doesn't care at all for leeches.

 

Also no need to feel scared to propose something, proposing will never force devs to do anything they dislike, they have own mind an opinion and we can only give some ideas/inspiration for them.

P.S. You can blame me for all ideas DE will dislike, they will not bite anyone for offering ideas(if ideas were proposed politely).

Why i add so many "bypasses" for game obstacles - just because Nyx is current;y very situational frame and even with some buffs the general use is very much in question.

With some "bypasses" Nyx will be pretty much welcome anywhere as some frames are.

[ArcKnight9202]

13 hours ago, Enchillado said:

Even though the original post in your link was based on what was happening here, it offers changes that are too drastic for Nyx.

I would argue that the small changes they made to her somewhat recently were already too drastic. She's already a very different frame than she was. However, this all depends on how you played her before. If you played her as an Assimilate tank, you might not notice a lot. If you played her as a solo, large-area controller(mainly open areas but not exclusively) she is much less effective now than she was before. It's still doable but it's a lot more work now than it was previously.

These are only a couple of examples but I hope you understand what I'm saying.

I just hope we see some positive things in the future. I love seeing all the feedback from so many people.

[Enchillado]

On 2019-08-01 at 10:36 PM, Zilotz said:

no need to feel scared to propose something

I was thinking as a developer. Not proposing, but implementing. That would be a fear of chain of unnecessary global changes that require a lot of work. You can't just stop on Nyx with that. But this is only one problem. There is at least one more that is less obvious.

So ok, let me explain my point. There are no fundamental mechanics against one specific type of unit. There are some for factions, but giving the skill some standalone mechanic for popping the bubble is unnecessary. There are so many unexplored possible concepts for enemy types that could be specifically designed to oppose tank tenno, assassin tenno, nuker tenno, CC tenno. But the game does not really expand in that direction. And that would be the proper way to start implementing direct counters which you suggest. It's a shame that the strategy aspect is so dull right now, yes.

[PopTartZombie]

My thoughts on Nyx as a whole, is that DE needs to go back to square one.

She is supposed to be a map altering Psychic-Like Warframe. The changes I'm about to suggest are just what I personally believe would be a better, and still give a psychic-like feel to Nyx.

Passive: This needs to be a consistent and notable difference. It could be allowing Nyx's focus to be able to draw out an additional (25%) more energy? Or maybe have a 5% chance to cause an enemy in melee range(5m) to be disarmed and float. Perhaps, having the mental focus Nyx is supposed to have, get a 50% damage bonus to melee channeling. I agree with what was stated before, 20% accuracy loss to enemies is more fitting on a more agility/stealth based frame.

Mind Control: Should be combined with the current Chaos and create a converted army at your disposal. With a cap on how many enemies get converted within a specified range, increased by mods. Possibly 2/3/4/5. 5 at max level, 6 with augmented mod maybe.

Psychic Bolts: Should be changed completely to an AOE that destroys moral. Causing enemies to have a debuff on accuracy and movement for about 20 seconds at max level (20% debuff). With a small chance (5%) they go insane and desert the fight all together.

Chaos: Being combined with mind control, could be completely changed into true chaos, amplifying team damage and and a 25% chance causing random enemies to become an additional conversion at a reduced duration (10 seconds), on cast causes blind (3 seconds). (Complimenting Mind Control)

Absorb: Dropping the current use completely, this ability could be reworked into a new ability that uses telepethy with all dead enemies weapons, causing them to float and be used at your disposal by your mind. Automatically firing at all enemies within a certain range for a certain duration at a certain damage percentage.

Of course all of this would need to be tested and balanced accordingly by DE. This would be a really great way to make Nyx way more fluid and currently viable Warframe, and give her abilities a not so comparable uniqueness.

Personal thoughts: Nyx may or may not get a better rework in the future, but I'm pretty sure its not going to be for a while, and I really doubt it's going to touch on everything that we would prefer to see. I definitely agree with anybody asking/stating that Nyx does need to be brought up to speed with the game. She's one of a good few that have fallen behind a bit.

 

 

Edited August 3, 2019 by PopTartZombie
Grammar, spelling.

[Naneel]

vor 8 Stunden schrieb PopTartZombie:

Passive: This needs to be a consistent and notable difference. It could be allowing Nyx's focus to be able to draw out an additional (25%) more energy? Or maybe have a 5% chance to cause an enemy in melee range(5m) to be disarmed and float. Perhaps, having the mental focus Nyx is supposed to have, get a 50% damage bonus to melee channeling. I agree with what was stated before, 20% accuracy loss to enemies is more fitting on a more agility/stealth based frame.

I agree that she needs something more noticeable, but I don't find reduced accuracy unfitting as enemies are mentaly distracted by her presence and therefor lose their aim, 20% is just to low to make a difference. As for your other suggestions, more Energy is always good, but I am not sure this fits with her theme, same with the bonus to channeling how does this fit a mental frame and won't channeling be gone with melee 3.0 ? To disarm enemies in Melee range would be nice and fitting, floating not so much, a knockback/knockdown would be more fitting for her telekinetic aspekt but would probably be more annoying then helpful.

vor 8 Stunden schrieb PopTartZombie:

Mind Control: Should be combined with the current Chaos and create a converted army at your disposal. With a cap on how many enemies get converted within a specified range, increased by mods. Possibly 2/3/4/5. 5 at max level, 6 with augmented mod maybe.

Sounds like a nice idea. But I would tweak the application so that you can somewhat decide which enemies you get. Make it like Equinox 2 or Titanias 1, you aim at one enemy and have a small AOE around him. All enemies effected (with a max cap) will be converted. I think this would be better than having complete random enemies. And I would go with 1/1/2/3 effected by duration (min 1) and they stay until they die and get a damage buff dependent on your strength (no more shooting your slaves, as it is annoying)

vor 8 Stunden schrieb PopTartZombie:

Psychic Bolts: Should be changed completely to an AOE that destroys moral. Causing enemies to have a debuff on accuracy and movement for about 20 seconds at max level (20% debuff). With a small chance (5%) they go insane and desert the fight all together.

This would work and fits her theme, but I would let her chaos stay and therefor also stay with her current 2, as it lets enemies kill each other faster, even if it does not completly fit her theme. But it needs some tweaks to be actually good. Add a chance for a radiation proc to her bolts (as before her rework) and either bolts become spammable without reseting or you can charge it up to effect more enemies or you get more bolts depending on your stats, so you can more reliable effect to enemies you want.

Maybe the Moral-thing could be her passive, raising the morale of allies and dump the one from enemies in Affinity Range.

Let Chaos stay as it is her signature Ability and fits her theme quite well, just give it a new effect-animation on enemies and make it a bit more reliable 

Absorb needs at least an innate damage multiplicator so you can actually kill enemies past lvl 10 or a stronger CC.

[Enchillado]

On 2019-08-04 at 1:54 AM, PopTartZombie said:

Absorb: Dropping the current use completely, this ability could be reworked into a new ability that uses telepethy with all dead enemies weapons, causing them to float and be used at your disposal by your mind. Automatically firing at all enemies within a certain range for a certain duration at a certain damage percentage.

This is not something that they would do for an old warframe. Regardless of the game engine, such task would require a lot of new code, both for logic and visual representation. Why do that when essentially this is Nekros' Shadows Of The Dead?

[Enchillado]

On 2019-07-29 at 12:07 PM, Birdframe_Prime said:

I don't think some would even work... The hologram appearing between enemies shooting at each other has no object to spawn on, and creating one each time enemies target each other to do that would be incredibly resource draining for most machines.

Even purely particle objects, like Kuva, have an object to spawn on (if you use the Magus Lockdown Arcane, you can see that Kuva Clouds are actually generated from an asset called a Corrupted Mask, the one that gets placed on regular enemies to make them the Corrupted visually, it's invisible, but it's there and is an additional object that has to be spawned in order for the Kuva to have an anchor). So to be clear if you generated a new object every single time an enemy fired just so that the Hologram effect could spawn at a location that isn't either the enemy firing or the enemy being fired at, this would potato a lot of graphics cards.

Don't take it as an offense, but I was a bit annoyed by that commentary. You went in depth of something that you shouldn't be bothered with, assuming, when any player that reads this should only ask themselves if they like what they've imagined and how close is that to the description.

That's okay, but as a developer myself, I've gone through some thought before introducing such mechanics. And it's doable. If you're interested:

• The object to spawn on is the same as now - a unit with a debuff, but this time we narrow it to a unit with a debuff who's also attacking. The hologram is also here already, we're just adding some visual variations, animations, and dependent position shift, so it's not necessarily on their face but somewhere on the line of sight. That is doable with any possible Evolution Engine restrictions you might imagine, at least most important aspects of this idea.
• I don't see any graphic cards exploding from dozens of Nyx holograms appearing now. And if it is possible to change object snap for any child object dynamically, we could make far fewer simultaneously rendered holograms and never despawn/respawn them, but simply displacing and animating them and their opacity. I see only increase in optimization, my friend.

So ultimately, only DE is to decide if it's doable and if they want to do it.

Edited August 5, 2019 by Enchillado

[Birdframe_Prime]

23 minutes ago, Enchillado said:

Don't take it as an offense, but I was a bit annoyed by that commentary. You went in depth of something that you shouldn't be bothered with, assuming, when any player that reads this should only ask themselves if they like what they've imagined and how close is that to the description.

Actually, I do kind of take this as a bit offensive, you're making a base assumption about what I am and am not interested in out of your comments. And your basic premise that people are going to take any of these improvements as just a 'cool or not cool' consideration without inherently applying context of what we know from the game is just... a little insulting to any of our intelligence. Creativity is great, but context is always applicable.

::Edit:: Also, your main comments about Chaos were about these visuals, so forgive me for actually trying to find a discussion about visuals in there.

23 minutes ago, Enchillado said:

I don't see any graphic cards exploding from dozens of Nyx holograms appearing now.

Because they only ever spawn on enemies themselves, which will at most ever get to around fifty or so on screen, which the game actually has optimisation for already.

What you're suggesting is creating those same fifty objects, but then keying them to enemy fire, and also generating them as a snapped object based on targeting. So instead of moving them with the object, you're moving them based on the object's 'field of view' and even if you're just generating opacity effects, that shuttering is going to be a massive factor of processing extra for each hologram than it is currently.

This is not a small thing, as you seem to think it is, it's a coding overhaul of the function that doesn't need to be done and wouldn't have the desired results outside of hitscan or projectile enemies in the first place.

23 minutes ago, Enchillado said:

That is doable with any possible Evolution Engine restrictions you might imagine

What you're forgetting in this whole 'I could do it' line is that it's never about whether it can be done, it's about the practicality of the result and what it actually would improve. I don't see this as ever being an optimisation function over what we have.

As a lovely little 'wait, did you even think of that?' moment, how does this even apply to any of the non-projectile enemies? The Ospreys, the Ratels, the melee units, most of the entire Infested, the ones that don't even aim at their enemies like the Mutalist Tar Moas?

Did you even consider that with Flame Thrower units, they're generating particles, not a targeted beam, so with your method you wouldn't even be able to make that work because the object you generate would either key off each individual particle generated, or have to persist until no particles were left from the stream of generated objects.

I didn't go into the topic to get into this much detail, to consider this many variables, but you would have a lot to plan and answer for on this change when the literal ideal, optimal situation is just to mark each enemy that's now under the influence of the effect in a clear way, which is what we have. You may not like the specific visuals of what we have, but what we have works better than any projection of what you're suggesting.

That's the more in depth reason behind why I think this wouldn't work; not because it isn't possible to put in what you're suggesting, but because it's not an improvement over what we actually have.

Edited August 5, 2019 by Birdframe_Prime

[Enchillado]

43 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

how does this even apply to any of the non-projectile enemies?

What the... How did you even come to a projectile stuff? It has no relation to the topic whatsoever.

Edited August 5, 2019 by Enchillado

[NuclearCoffeePot]

27 minutes ago, Enchillado said:

What the... How did you even come to a projectile stuff? It has no relation to the topic whatsoever.

You made psionic blast absorb dmg- I think he interpreted it as absorbing projectiles like Nova does

[Enchillado]

2 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

generating them as a snapped object based on targeting

Yes, hello, that is exactly how it works now, thank you.

2 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

So instead of moving them with the object, you're moving them based on the object's 'field of view'

If a current hologram is somehow tied to a unit and has roughly 0;0;0 coordinates in relation to that unit, that "somehow" can be repeated with any other coordinates. You're trying to differentiate my approach from this one not even knowing how it is done in the first place, because current hologram might be a separate object that's just snapped to the unit's view.

2 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

the object you generate would either key off each individual particle generated

I don't understand how did you get all of that from a simple "line of sight" phrase.

2 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

optimal situation is just to mark each enemy that's now under the influence of the effect in a clear way

Which I also offered from the very beginning, suggesting to make holograms as a secondary and non-persistent visual effect to a primary effect on each unit which looks like a debuff rather than a transparent Nyx. Do not distort my words please.

2 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

::Edit:: Also, your main comments about Chaos were about these visuals, so forgive me for actually trying to find a discussion about visuals in there.

Ye, but you answer with false technical stuff. Lack of knowledge is the main problem, not "intelligence" - the ability to acquire and apply knowledge and skills. And I don't "assume", I make notes, judging by what you've said. And again. But... Is that also offensive, to claim that someone is not competent in such a niche sphere? Weird.

I think you took it all as something rude and went further with some projectiles and stuff, making it confusing and nonsensical while also speaking maliciously. Note that I've never subjected any your balance/idea thoughts to such judgment. Because this is something that can be based on taste, game experience, imagination, and those are subjective things. Guess what, all of that also depends on intelligence and represents it in a way.

2 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

I think this wouldn't work; not because it isn't possible to put in what you're suggesting, but because it's not an improvement over what we actually have.

So you've failed your arguments twice and then defend yourself with some "It wouldn't work because it's not needed, not because of those technical aspects that I've mentioned earlier when I was wrong" in the end. And I thought we're having a worthy adult conversation here.

Edited August 6, 2019 by Enchillado

[Birdframe_Prime]

8 hours ago, Enchillado said:

And I thought we're having a worthy adult conversation here.

I've made that conclusion about you before.

You take me pointing out problems with a theory as ungrounded when I'm extrapolating directly from what you've said, then when I say that the method, though problematic may even be possible, it's so problematic that it isn't worth doing, you can't even follow the thread.

Enough, my every interaction with you devolves because you can't even accept for a moment that somebody else might have valid points. I'm not going to give you any more of my time or credence.

[Enchillado]

 

27 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

you can't even accept for a moment that somebody else might have valid points

There are no "points" in a technical discussion with such a context, so don't resort to accuses like that and straight-up lies. If you start talking about projectiles then you don't even understand what was suggested at the most basic technical layer. Meanwhile, I keep reminding people that post something opinion and taste based that I'm not disputing with them in any way, yet you call me out that I can't accept some "points". Please, go express your childish behavior somewhere else.

Edited August 6, 2019 by Enchillado

[Mrvex11]

If i would do a rework, my first grudge is with her passive (being useless for two reasons, most dangerous enemies in the game have automatic weapons or their weapon either is homing or has monstrous splash. Think about bombards as example of homing projectiles and Scorch troopers for a weapon that doesnt need to hit you directly to do something, second is 20% is way too little for a frame that has no defences aside from absorb and constant CC'ing others when CC in WF is not that great).

Nyx was my second frame, i managed to get her early on so she has a place in my heart, but after i tasted other frames i just left her picking up dust in my armoury. Until i got the third frame (my first was Mag) i was saying this is the best thing since sliced bread. Then i got Valkyre as third frame and i realized "Well, this kitty is almost indestructible, has high mobilty, AOE stagger, AOE melee buff for team and a invincibility and self healing with a weapon that deletes everything in melee, well poor Nyx actually looks pathetic tbh".

 

And this only kickstarted the chain of me discovering other frames

"Well Mirage has invincible clones that shoots your weapon, can CC with blindness, amplify her damage or give herself 90% damage reduction during night and she can summon an orb that murders everything as it bounces around"

" Octavia looks absolutely broken in every way"

" Vauban i heard he is a victim of CC being not as useful as it should be, the traps require too long to charge to fit in with fast paced gameplay, some of his trap types sounds useless but his bastille and the blackhole thingy is actually a good CC".

" Titania has three useless abilities (If i count passive), her soul rip is somewhat useful but her archwing mode is just monstrous (in a good way)"

and with each subsequent discovery i was like "Well Nyx must be an end game frame or something that needs x and y mods to be better at certain situation".

Speaking of now, when i made Nyx Prime, 567 hours played now and i am like " What changed ? I have some rivens for things like catchmoon or supra, but i dont remember weapons being a problem, i have some primed mods and access to New Loka syndicate augment mods... so whats the problem now ?".

To fix her, either i would give her some sort of scaling like she can rip the life force of living enemies to give herself a stacking overhealth and over shields, max cap and amount would depend on enemy level. (This could be a hold on interaction with MC'ed victim or something like that). This would turn her in to a frame that wont die if a high level enemy sneezes in their general direction.

Her passive ? Well either i would crank up the miss part for automatic weapons to 40% and the normal weapons to 30%. 

But my biggest gripe is the Mind Control.

1) MC'ed enemy is just not aggressive enough, he should be actively seeking enemies.

2) Cannot be controlled, he/she/it should work like a spectre

3) Stupid AI, no awareness and will happily run in to nulifiers.

4) Enemy damage doesnt scale as much as their damage, even with mind freak late game enemies (where it would make sense to use it) dont do as much damage to make an actual impact in the game.

5) Aside from Shield Ospreys they are unguided missiles that underutilised their weaponry or abilities.

6) They get in your way too much, because they are not aggressive enough so they follow you and blankly stare at you until like somebody starts shooting you or the victim. I would propose to be able to shoot through them if we use ironsights or scopes (They could become transparent).

7) There is no indication if the victim will die once it runs out.

 

So you have an ability that is not unique, more frames can create minions and is lacking in most areas.

 

[Enchillado]

40 minutes ago, Mrvex11 said:

But my biggest gripe is the Mind Control.

Agree with everything below this. Mind Control might even work if all that gets fixed, but it still lacks uniqueness as you pointed out, and I personally wouldn't want that ability to be enhanced by extra mechanics. There is no way you can do that without harming the concept or plain repeating what was done with Mind Control alternatives. That's why I came up with the passive.

[ArcKnight9202]

6 hours ago, Mrvex11 said:

If i would do a rework, my first grudge is with her passive (being useless for two reasons, most dangerous enemies in the game have automatic weapons or their weapon either is homing or has monstrous splash. Think about bombards as example of homing projectiles and Scorch troopers for a weapon that doesnt need to hit you directly to do something, second is 20% is way too little for a frame that has no defences aside from absorb and constant CC'ing others when CC in WF is not that great).

Your post gives off the idea that you didn't play Nyx(or Warframe) before she was reworked. If that's wrong, apologies. However, this part of your post is really interesting to me.

Prior to her recent tweaks, Nyx was extremely hard to kill in most situations. She could have multiple, layered instances of Chaos over huge areas of maps. She could shoot long-range radiation at far away targets. She was also able to permanently remove enemy's weapons preventing them from shooting completely. These melee enemies usually engaged other enemies near them. This drew the fire of the enemies who still held their guns. Everything was neatly controlled in a chaotic fashion. This is all without any augments, too.

Unfortunately, a lot of people didn't see or understand the real power here and so things were changed into the lackluster frame we have now. She's still functional but in different and less interesting ways.

[Enchillado]

7 hours ago, ArcKnight9202 said:

Unfortunately, a lot of people didn't see or understand the real power here and so things were changed into the lackluster frame we have now.

That's pretty delusional of you. So you're saying that because people were unsatisfied with Nyx she's weaker now. Not because developers did changes that supposedly tuned down some of her strengths, but because of that. Mkay. Let's see what you admire then:

0. Passive that depends on two layers of RNG, has a negative synergy with her abilities' effects, but "neatly controlled in a chaotic fashion" lmao
1. A version of Mind Control that is worse than what we have now, having not even a glimpse of scaling. You didn't mention it.
2. Psychic Bolts with bad targeting that do nothing with a chance to proc Radiation after an eternal delay, 50 energy btw. Good. You can proc Radiation better with your weapon, but that's my opinion, maybe you think otherwise.
3. Chaos, which was an ability that is locked from use until the last instance of Chaos effect ends. The only thing I see here being "multiple and layered" is a fiction you wrote. And how would you even imply "layers" of something that has no stats which could be additive?
4. Absorb, which, believe it or not, was worse back then. And I don't even want to break it down since you didn't even mention it.

Oddly enough, you skipped 50% of her active abilities, practically confirming that her rework was needed. I'm not sure what was that about Chaos, so I would count it as 75%. Psychic Bolts is what you have left. Also the passive. It's ok if you like older versions of those more, those are at least different.

The rework was a half-assed attempt to make Nyx's abilities usable. Some of the changes were arguably correct, especially when her previous usage was barely held on Chaos only, of all 4 (5) abilities. If that's what you prefer, then ok, but don't accuse people of not understanding something before you learn to understand the basics of a successful full-fledged concept.

[Mrvex11]

14 hours ago, ArcKnight9202 said:

Your post gives off the idea that you didn't play Nyx(or Warframe) before she was reworked. If that's wrong, apologies. However, this part of your post is really interesting to me.

Prior to her recent tweaks, Nyx was extremely hard to kill in most situations. She could have multiple, layered instances of Chaos over huge areas of maps. She could shoot long-range radiation at far away targets. She was also able to permanently remove enemy's weapons preventing them from shooting completely. These melee enemies usually engaged other enemies near them. This drew the fire of the enemies who still held their guns. Everything was neatly controlled in a chaotic fashion. This is all without any augments, too.

 

I started playing WF in december (2018) and i do remember Nyx previous passive being them dropping weapons but frankly to be honest i havent even noticed it in game until i checked that Nyx even has passive (And that all frames have them). And i remember how teammates yelled at me to cancel MC so a new wave can begin so yeah, so i do remember the older Nyx somewhat and only because i didnt knew better i liked her, now i have alot more frames and she just looks subpar.

And my definition of hard to kill is that your frame can survive actual hits when they inevitably happen. Yeah sure, everyone can spam nonstop CC abilities and they can be invincible till they run out of energy or one of those enemies that are immune to CC comes around to tear you a new one.

Nyx has almost non existing armour, no actual damage mitigation, health nor shields are high and the ability that actually prevents damage, ravages your energy pool quickly and requires quite specific situations to be useful in.

 

 

[PopTartZombie]

On 2019-08-05 at 12:41 AM, Enchillado said:

This is not something that they would do for an old warframe. Regardless of the game engine, such task would require a lot of new code, both for logic and visual representation. Why do that when essentially this is Nekros' Shadows Of The Dead?

The closed beta I played, in comparison to now, definitely tells me that yes they could easily drop and change an entire ability. It's more about what the majority of the community wants, if all of us keep saying "rework nyx, I hate her 4, she still sucks". They'll do it. Rhino used to be an entire level murderer with stomp. Especially with the old mod setups, I've seen people running 4000% power range. It was way too op so they completely changed it into a CC ability, in addition to changing the way mods worked. It got completely new "code", animations and the amount of damage done was lowered, not to mention causing enemies to float. DE built this game in house from the ground up, it would take maybe 4 guys and about 2 weeks to get Nyx completely reworked. The older frames are the most important frames to keep up to date.

[NuclearCoffeePot]

17 minutes ago, PopTartZombie said:

The closed beta I played, in comparison to now, definitely tells me that yes they could easily drop and change an entire ability. It's more about what the majority of the community wants, if all of us keep saying "rework nyx, I hate her 4, she still sucks". They'll do it. Rhino used to be an entire level murderer with stomp. Especially with the old mod setups, I've seen people running 4000% power range. It was way too op so they completely changed it into a CC ability, in addition to changing the way mods worked. It got completely new "code", animations and the amount of damage done was lowered, not to mention causing enemies to float. DE built this game in house from the ground up, it would take maybe 4 guys and about 2 weeks to get Nyx completely reworked. The older frames are the most important frames to keep up to date.

Yeah. Coding is difficult but it doesn't take long to actually code things like this. De releases new frames at a rate of 1-2 every major update and the majority of their time goes to developing the abilitiy concepts and balancing them rather then actually coding and animating them. And even more time is spent on the update itself rather then the frames

[selig_fay]

@PopTartZombie You have expressed a really good opinion. I don't understand why people decided that old (or just bad) frames should follow old mechanics or bad concept. But unfortunately the majority decides and we get a bad rework.

 

[Enchillado]

19 hours ago, PopTartZombie said:

The closed beta I played, in comparison to now, definitely tells me that yes they could easily drop and change an entire ability. It's more about what the majority of the community wants, if all of us keep saying "rework nyx, I hate her 4, she still sucks". They'll do it. Rhino used to be an entire level murderer with stomp. Especially with the old mod setups, I've seen people running 4000% power range. It was way too op so they completely changed it into a CC ability, in addition to changing the way mods worked. It got completely new "code", animations and the amount of damage done was lowered, not to mention causing enemies to float. DE built this game in house from the ground up, it would take maybe 4 guys and about 2 weeks to get Nyx completely reworked. The older frames are the most important frames to keep up to date.

Interesting information, but this example doesn't imply much code change, at least by those words. Sounds more like control of variables, basic calculations.

Furthermore, the carcass of the game was open to changes because the idea of balance wasn't really established and the community was small back then.

As for now, DE is a bit afraid to completely wipe some mechanics for multiple reasons. If something is working in terms of bug-free functionality, finished and polished code, then it's just painful to remove something like that when it could be adjusted so they save some time without any harm to the quality. People are criticizing Absorb a lot, but the adequate majority would agree with proper tuning of this ability.

And then there is a cherry on the cake. For everything that this game has already, there are fanboys that sometimes feel personally offended for even a small change of something they've got used to, let alone removing it and creating a completely different replacement. So I have no doubt that any rework procedure has a huge damage control stage and DE is most likely to end up moving some abilities instead of replacing them.