[suggestion] It'd make sense if hidden caches were added to survival missions

[sir_deadlock]

Okay you read the title, hear me out.

A sabotage mission is supposed to be: get in, make the thing go boom, get out. It sort of makes sense if you're trying to find treasure before the ship explodes or something like that.

A survival mission though: your job is to wreak havoc for as long as possible to distract enemy attention while operatives steal junk. Actually, no. You're just killing time; it doesn't matter if you kill anything so long as you don't run out of air. If you were supposed to be wrecking stuff, you'd probably be getting a bonus for combos and the amount of object destruction you've accomplished. (Oh man! Why is object destruction not a mission type?! Okay, off-topic, never mind)

 It's the perfect time to be looting. You've really got nothing better to do. It would be, not just something to do, but also an incentive for not room camping. And the longer you can't find the hidden caches, the harder the mission gets.

Edited September 7, 2019 by sir_deadlock

[Oreades]

It would be nominal incentive for people to explore, so it gets my support but I think most people would just ignore them like they do in sabotage missions. 

[(PSN)Hikuro-93]

That'd be a good idea. At the very least if a separated team didn't skew the spawns, that is.

[Lazarow]

I see an excuse for people to mess up the spawns, nothing else tbh

[sir_deadlock]

9 minutes ago, (PS4)Hikuro-93 said:

That'd be a good idea. At the very least if a separated team didn't skew the spawns, that is.

 

8 minutes ago, Lazarow said:

I see an excuse for people to mess up the spawns, nothing else tbh

Well, yeah, but like, when you're 20 minutes in with 100% and maybe 8 untapped life supports, killing enemies might be a low priority? It's not like they wouldn't still be around.

 I'm just standing around waiting for the next 5 minutes to pass. It's something to blow 10 minutes on.

[CxLL]

Yes! Yes!!! More exploration! More hidden loot! Doesn't need to be standard caches but something like a soft variant of the Lua music puzzle. There are so many hidden rooms and areas in every tileset that often require actual effort to be found or reached. To be greeted with a few locked lockers or a random ammo drop from a container is super sad, if not disappointing.
Adding at least rare/reinforced faction containers would make things so much better, and what better mission for this than an endless large map such as survivals offer.
Giant thumbs up for this idea! YES PLEASE!

Note to op: Change title to something like "Adding caches to Survival missions" or "Rewarding exploration" or something more concise and straight to the point. The body of the post is where you explain why it makes sense. No reason to tag with "suggestion", the thread itself is already in Feedback. It will be noticed and acknowledged better with these changes.
I'll keep cheering for the idea. Did you know you can break walls on Lua to access hidden off-map areas? Such a shame you don't find more than a single common container in those...

[Rawbeard]

exploration messes with spawn, which is really bad for survival. it's already bad enough with one hallway hero.

[sir_deadlock]

On 2019-09-07 at 3:01 PM, CxLL said:

Did you know you can break walls on Lua to access hidden off-map areas? Such a shame you don't find more than a single common container in those...

I can think of 5 destructible walls on Lua.

1.  The Umbra trailer wall.
2. The temple of doom style alternative path that knocks over the pillar.
3. The third spy chamber's larger laser and ice floor room where the pillar needs to be knocked over.
4. The next third spy chamber's section where the wall needs to be detonated.
5. The third spy chamber's section after that where a stone section needs to be blasted and sent back in time through the portal to destroy the locked door of the treasure room.

There's also one destructible door in a grineer galleon spy chamber, where a cannon pointed at the door can be fired.

On one of the Corpus ice planets, usually a capture mission, there's a red barrel very early on that when exploded destroys a locked door with some lockers inside.

 The infested corpus tile set is a bevy of red explosion barrels that alter the landscape. Dropping ramps and unlocking treasure rooms or switches.

 The tubemen tile set of Uranus, not so much destructible walls, but there are a good deal of destructible grates and hidden vents. I remember in on of the rooms, shooting certain things will drop a grate revealing an entrance to a locked treasure room.

There are a few destructible grates in the void as well, which lead players under the floor sometimes where lockers and crates are hidden.

 I know the Kuva Fortess has a bunch of places tucked away, but I have so much trouble navigating that place.

 Plains of Eidolon have the thing with the windmill, but I don't think there's much else.

 Orb Vallis has this thing where you can turn off the power generators in some of the bases, I've never figured out what it's supposed to be for.

But I too enjoy the secret rooms. One of the few classes of instructional videos I've really enjoyed looking up was about finding warframe secret rooms I may have missed. There's one in particular that I'm sure must exist in the grineer galleon, because I occasionally see loot radar icons for it, but I just can't find a way in!

[5p33dy_01]

On 2019-09-07 at 9:00 PM, sir_deadlock said:

Okay you read the title, hear me out.

A sabotage mission is supposed to be: get in, make the thing go boom, get out. It sort of makes sense if you're trying to find treasure before the ship explodes or something like that.

A survival mission though: your job is to wreak havoc for as long as possible to distract enemy attention while operatives steal junk. Actually, no. You're just killing time; it doesn't matter if you kill anything so long as you don't run out of air. If you were supposed to be wrecking stuff, you'd probably be getting a bonus for combos and the amount of object destruction you've accomplished. (Oh man! Why is object destruction not a mission type?! Okay, off-topic, never mind)

 It's the perfect time to be looting. You've really got nothing better to do. It would be, not just something to do, but also an incentive for not room camping. And the longer you can't find the hidden caches, the harder the mission gets.

you need to understand how bad the spawn system is before suggesting this.
the 1 and only way this would work is, if the spawn system and routing worked better.

i personally hate people running around the map because enemies get stuck EVERYWHERE and they dont re-spawn like they should if they are too far away.
enemies have a certain route that can sometimes be blocked, but they never go around it.
ever stayed in a survival after host migration (rip spawns) you need to go hunting down enemies 1 by 1.
ever run back and forth through a survival map and noticed a lot of enemies stuck in places that are not spawn points (they dont despawn like they should)

i was recently playing Uranus survival (2 man group), we stayed around the starting point (because i know how bad the spawn system is) and enemies slowed down to about 3 every 5sec, we went running further to see why and they were piled up behind a glass window and didnt walk around it (it was open on BOTH sides) but they chose to sit behind the obstruction.

basically, like most games, dev's have fundamental problems in mechanics before good ideas can be implemented
but they must keep adding more cosmetics to keep people happy, instead of just resolving the mechanics problems which will make people happier.
 

On 2019-09-07 at 10:13 PM, sir_deadlock said:

 

Well, yeah, but like, when you're 20 minutes in with 100% and maybe 8 untapped life supports, killing enemies might be a low priority? It's not like they wouldn't still be around.

 I'm just standing around waiting for the next 5 minutes to pass. It's something to blow 10 minutes on.

the only reason this is the way it is, is because people can not change the starting difficulty, if people could start with level 80+ enemies, you wouldnt be so bored.



 

 

[sir_deadlock]

On 2019-09-09 at 7:48 AM, 5p33dy_01 said:

you need to understand how bad the spawn system is before suggesting this.
the only reason this is the way it is, is because people can not change the starting difficulty, if people could start with level 80+ enemies, you wouldnt be so bored.

Oh, I've experienced it quite a number of times. There's an unclog phase in the process of room camping which greatly works to the advantage of the players. That's when we're supposed to leave to room, pick up all the loot, then unclog the enemies.

Kind of like how in a defense mission, the same thing happens where one enemy gets stuck in a spawn somewhere. It works to the players' advantage because it gives us time to run around picking up loot before we have to address the next wave of enemies or perhaps even end the mission.

If it's not intentional on the part of the devs, it's a happy accident.

-----

The boredom isn't from having a lack of challenge, it's from being time gated. There's nothing I can do to speed this process up. Not a thing in the world.

There's no hacking terminals, killing mini-bosses, super charging a defense deployable, killing a set number of enemies; there is nothing. I have to wait another 5 minutes for the next reward phase.

And I'm not saying this would resolve the time gating at all (which if I'm being honest, is kind of necessary being there, so I'm not really complaining about it), but it'd be something optional to do and it makes sense to reward prolonged endurance in exploration for a mission entirely about and called survival.

If anything, it's an incentive to stay in the mission longer "sorry man, can't leave yet. One more cache to find."

Edited September 10, 2019 by sir_deadlock

[5p33dy_01]

6 hours ago, sir_deadlock said:

Oh, I've experienced it quite a number of times. There's an unclog phase in the process of room camping which greatly works to the advantage of the players. That's when we're supposed to leave to room, pick up all the loot, then unclog the enemies.

Kind of like how in a defense mission, the same thing happens where one enemy gets stuck in a spawn somewhere. It works to the players' advantage because it gives us time to run around picking up loot before we have to address the next wave of enemies or perhaps even end the mission.

If it's not intentional on the part of the devs, it's a happy accident.

-----

The boredom isn't from having a lack of challenge, it's from being time gated. There's nothing I can do to speed this process up. Not a thing in the world.

There's no hacking terminals, killing mini-bosses, super charging a defense deployable, killing a set number of enemies; there is nothing. I have to wait another 5 minutes for the next reward phase.

And I'm not saying this would resolve the time gating at all (which if I'm being honest, is kind of necessary being there, so I'm not really complaining about it), but it'd be something optional to do and it makes sense to reward prolonged endurance in exploration for a mission entirely about and called survival.

If anything, it's an incentive to stay in the mission longer "sorry man, can't leave yet. One more cache to find."

in survival a set number of enemies spawn which you have to kill before another wave comes, 1 being stuck here and there adds up and makes it extremely annoying, because over time you now have to go find these stuck enemies (which further increases the problem, because you are again running through the map), its not like in defense where it indicates these stuck enemies.
as you spend more time, more enemies spawn, but that is not a solution (its dumb to say "just sit in the mission for longer if you want to account for the stuck enemies")

i have personally tested this, i waited for an enemy to get stuck, which wasnt hard, then i ran to the other side of the map (a good 500+ meters) and came back to find it still stuck in the same place.

its already bad enough that 1 player can run off and then all the enemies start chasing that 1 player and everyone else has to follow or nothing spawns for them.
i dont know why people do this, maybe they want to play solo with a lot more enemies than being in solo mode, or maybe they want more kills on a weapon they are leveling, or maybe they get bored because everyone else is killing them before they get a chance.
either way, they skewer the entire spawn system which only creates frustration with other players and makes enemies get stuck.

my point is, before any additional objectives can be implemented, they need to fix the spawn system.
enemies need to de-spawn and re-spawn if they are further than 100 to 200 meters
enemies need their own /unstuck mechanic built in (maybe if an enemy has not moved in say 30 seconds, it automatically triggers something like /unstuck or de-spawns and re-spawns)

Edited September 10, 2019 by 5p33dy_01

[sir_deadlock]

On 2019-09-10 at 1:34 PM, 5p33dy_01 said:

i dont know why people do this

 The typical reason I would go off on my own is that the enemies around me are being killed quickly by team mates and I either want something to do, have something to do like a nightwave mission or a riven, or I started killing a line of enemies and got drawn away in the heat of battle. Sometimes we get distracted and need life support because drops aren't coming quickly enough, so I break off to find to an O2 pod.

On 2019-09-10 at 1:34 PM, 5p33dy_01 said:

before any additional objectives can be implemented, they need to fix the spawn system.

Your suggested change is a good one, no argument, but I don't see how it takes priority over other suggestions. It's okay if the spawns get messed up and people need to chase enemies. It's okay if the group separates and room camping stops being a viable strategy in a pub mission. It's okay if a mission has to end early because time ran down. Maybe it prevents a long haul mission, but that's okay too. These things aren't game breaking problems that so desperately require attention that nothing is more important than getting to them before considering any other additions.

If you want more reliable spawns, in a confined space, that has an automatic exit timer, with better rewards; Sanctuary Onslaught is what the devs have offered. As it is, they made survival to have realistic spawn mechanics where enemies need a closed door to appear behind, they increased how often the O2 pods drop, and they made it so players can leave without needing the whole group. Sounds to me like room camping as a group is not what they have in mind for survival.

And really, you're saying hidden caches would be a problem because of spawns, but for it to be a problem would require that people like it enough to disrupt regular instances of play. Even if they ignore them they'd still be able to finish the mission.

 Furthermore, if people did like them and it became a big problem because of how much it ruined spawn rates, everybody would be upset about that, so DE would have to think up a way to fix the spawn rates so they could keep the hidden caches which people were having fun with. Eh? Eh? 😄

[Velothed]

On 2019-09-10 at 10:34 PM, 5p33dy_01 said:

i dont know why people do this,

It really depends on the circumstance, staying with the team is good and squads should try to stick together while they move through the map.

If people camp in one room though, I'm out of there, I'd like to actually play the game.