I don't like knockdowns. Can we have ukemi instead?

[taiiat]

5 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

No, no, I meant, would you rather have what we have now; the mods all separate and not even with resistances to all types, or a single mod even if it had to be multiplicative instead of additive.

which is a loaded question and i'm not stupid.

[Birdframe_Prime]

1 minute ago, taiiat said:

which is a loaded question and i'm not stupid.

If the answer appears to be that obvious and clear cut, so obvious that it appears loaded, wouldn't you say that it just makes sense?

I'm not trying to have some great 'Gotcha' moment, I'm trying to point out that the way DE have the mods organised right now is bad and could be cleaned up. Functions like the OP wants are in the mods already, but people don't use them because the inconvenience of knockdowns and stuns and having the raw damage rather than resistance to that damage just isn't as viable as a mod that improves your abilities or overall functions instead.

The way forward is not to implement things that bypass the modding, the way forward is to put those desirable functions together, into mods or a single mod that can compete with these other, better ones.

And the damage resistance mods are one of those functions. We want to be able to have better damage resistance, and damage resistance should be conditional and limited because of course it should, that's game balance. But the ones we have are too niche and too spread out, the mod slot is simply not worth it to have Radiation damage resistance when nothing uses Radiation damage. The only one that's currently almost worth it is the Heat resistance one because a bunch of Grineer enemies use Heat, but again, that's one faction and only certain units. They are not a better function than any other one that helps your non-tanky frame stay alive in other ways instead, such as their abilities.

You picked them out of the group I suggested because you thought I meant additive damage resistance, as they are currently, and yes that would have been more powerful than I was actually suggesting. But that wasn't what I was suggesting, and now that I've made that clear, do you still think it's a bad idea, and why, when I've made it clear as to my reasoning and actual desire with that kind of change?

[taiiat]

2 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

But that wasn't what I was suggesting

if you were assuming they would be changed to Multiplicative then there isn't any further issue here.

[Birdframe_Prime]

9 hours ago, taiiat said:

if you were assuming they would be changed to Multiplicative then there isn't any further issue here.

Excellent, that's all I was asking you ^^

[George_PPS]

Knockdowns are seemingly harmless but it’s one of the worse things that can happen to my warframes in missions. Being knocked down means vulnerability, loss of DPS, and just feels bad. There should some even better mods to prevent this. 

[Steel_Rook]

Nobody likes being knocked down, I think we can agree with this basic fact. How we avoid it is another matter. Personally, I'd rather cut down on wide-spread passive knockdown resistance (maybe reserve it for specific "tank" Warframes) and instead do three things.

1. Knockdown cooldown. After a player has been knocked down by any source, that player cannot be knocked down again for 2-5 seconds, possibly extendable with mods. No rooting, no pushback. This should prevent being stun-locked forever.

2. Tech hit. Allow players to hit the Jump key just as they hit the ground to do a tech hit and spring back up to their feet, immediately regaining control. This both gives players an element of control in a situation which would otherwise remove control and offers the satisfaction of having negated an otherwise unpleasant effect.

3. Fix autoblock. Start by fixing autoblock animation priority such that it never overrides any other action and is itself overridden by all actions. Now let auto-block fire even if the player has a firearm drawn. Now allow autoblock to block all forms of knockdown as long as the player is facing within 45 degrees of either the enemy performing the knockback attack or the centre of the AoE knockback explosion.

I'm generally a fan of giving players more to do in combat besides absent-mindedly pointing and shooting - specifically, more stuff to react to. Being able to block knockdowns or tech out of them should make combat feel a bit more dynamic while empowering the player to respond strongly. I understand that Warframe is not a one-on-one fighting game, but my experience performing tech rolls and mid-air recoveries in said one-on-one fighting games is some of the most satisfying experiences in them, not to mention an absolute life-saver. Adding the above ought to approximate a similar "feeling" while still fitting within most of the existing systems of Warframe.

[(XBOX)yepbeeble]

On 2019-10-11 at 3:00 AM, Zoh_Veldae said:

I don't like Shockwave Moa knockdown waves. I don't like Fusion Moa snipe knockdowns from across the room. And I definitely don't like Scorpion grappling hook knockdowns that can't be interrupted by anything short of instant death.

And while we do have mods that increase the knockdown recovery like Handspring or negate it entirely like Sure Footed, I firmly believe that Warframes should instead be capable of performing ukemi, the martial art of recovering safely from a knockdown, without such external aids. Perhaps by having it be a timed button press when falling flat on your back, maybe even adding directional input to control which direction you make your recovery to. Who knows, the possibilities are fairly limited, but are there nonetheless.

Bruh, the point of knockdown is to punish you. Fusion Moa's can be dodged, shockwave Moa's little stomp thing can be jumped over simply, same with the Eidolon stomps. Scorpion hooks can be dodged by simply pressing the spacebar and shift (depending on your keybinds) while holding S to go back. What I'm saying, is you can suck it up. If you hate getting knocked down, play one of the many frames who can't be hooked, or knocked down. Revenant is a great example! His Mesmer Skin ability prevents him from being knocked down, or hooked, and you're invincible while it's active.

 

What I'm saying is, suck it up. 

[(XBOX)yepbeeble]

12 hours ago, George_PPS said:

Knockdowns are seemingly harmless but it’s one of the worse things that can happen to my warframes in missions. Being knocked down means vulnerability, loss of DPS, and just feels bad. There should some even better mods to prevent this. 

Primed Sure Footed, even just regular Sure Footed, and Power Drift, all negate this.

[Teridax68]

2 hours ago, (XB1)razberryX said:

Primed Sure Footed, even just regular Sure Footed, and Power Drift, all negate this.

The fact that you are seriously suggesting Primed Sure Footed as a method of dealing with knockdowns should probably say enough, but just to answer your other post here that you decided not to combine into a single reply for whichever reason:

2 hours ago, (XB1)razberryX said:

What I'm saying is, suck it up. 

See, when you look at the posts here, most people aren't actually averse to the idea of being punished. Getting a single knockdown for making a clear mistake may perhaps not feel the most fun, but at least most people here seem ready to accept that as a fair mechanic. However, the problem being mentioned is that knockdowns aren't really properly implemented as a punishment mechanic in Warframe, because they can come from plenty of sources that aren't always easy to notice or avoid, and stack to the point where the player becomes stun-locked. Thus, whether it's the player getting knocked down/staggered repeatedly until they die, or simply killed while knocked down once in higher-level missions, there is a recurring issue of players getting punished with death for a single mistake, which is disproportionate, and this is assuming they made a mistake at all (as opposed to getting tethered instantly by one of what could be a half-dozen Ancient Infested in the room or the like, which can happen even when parkouring at full speed).

But also, just to clarify on the original point: Primed Sure Footed is an absolutely terrible mod that does nothing to solve the knockdown problem, because the mod protects you from the forced animation of a knockdown... by putting you in another forced animation where you stand stock still and block, one that takes even more time to complete than if the player got knocked down with the much cheaper Handspring mod equipped (it also arguably makes you an easier target, as you won't even be dodging incoming fire by going prone). At its very best, the mod has absolutely no effect, and given how people usually build against CC, the mod in fact makes knockdowns worse. It doesn't even actually provide 100% knockdown resistance, is how bad it is, as its real chance of knockdown resistance is 99.X%.

Edited October 14, 2019 by Teridax68

[Hobie-wan]

No thanks on adding quick time events. Changes that don't involve this could be ok.

On a related note, I really do hate being knocked down by a plains thumper only to be immediately knocked down a second time when it is tossing shockwaves around.