Why are you buffing the stats of melee weapons? (answered, thank you)

[Flying_Scorpion]

*update* the question has been answered by a few helpful Tenno, so thank you. The buffs offset the loss of bonus damage from the combo multiplier system, and the synergies with mods like blood rush. It might also help offset the loss of channeling damage synergies (that last one is my personal speculation).

Original post:
DE, we've already said many times that there is a powercreep issue in Warframe. So why are you buffing the damage, range, and block angle of melee weapons? I just don't get it. They're already strong, was there a need for this?

Edited October 26, 2019 by Flying_Scorpion

[Entharias]

Why is power creep an issue? What's the difference between oneshotting someone with 2.000 damage or oneshotting someone with 2.000.000 damage? Sure, with stronger weapons we can have an easier time in endurance runs, but how is it an issue?

Recent bosses aren't bullet sponges anymore, so no matter how much damage you do, you still need to go through their phases.

So, again, why is power creep an issue (in a power fantasy game that is)?

Edited October 26, 2019 by Nakrast

[Godzilla853]

3 minutes ago, Flying_Scorpion said:

DE, we've already said many times that there is a powercreep issue in Warframe. So why are you buffing the damage, range, attack speed, and block angle of melee weapons? I just don't get it. They're already strong, was there a need for this? Or are you doing this to generate hype for your next big patch?

They melee system as a whole is being reworked. And just like the primary and secondary rework they buffed the damage and changed the stats and MR of all gear.

[Flying_Scorpion]

20 minutes ago, Nakrast said:

Why is power creep an issue?

Imagine watching an action movie that has you on the edge of your seat. The protagonist almost dies during the movie, he/she is injured, makes mistakes, and through both effort and luck, the protagonist narrowly overcomes the conflict and challenge. There were moments where you believed that they protagonist might actually lose.

 

Now imagine watching an "action" movie where the protagonist simply snaps his/her fingers and easily overcomes any inconvenience that comes his or her way. This happens again and again throughout the movie for 90 minutes. It takes minimal effort nor any luck for them to overcome whatever semblance of a conflict or challenge that was presented.

 

Which movie would you rather see? Which movie are you more likely to fall asleep halfway through? It's frustrating to me to need to explain this.

Edited October 26, 2019 by Flying_Scorpion

[Genitive]

They buff the damage mainly because they change the way the combo counter works. With the rework, the combo counter will only increase the damage of charge attacks, as opposed to all the damage, as it is now. And since melee damage won't increase the more enemies you kill, the damage increase is needed to compensate.

[Zeyez]

if they don't adjust those meele weapons after that update, most of the reliable meele weapons will become much more weaker than they were before, specially after Condition Overload stacking nerf, Blood Rush and Maiming strike nerf, which are one of main concerns that restrict meele options
example: Atterax, which relies on Blood Rush and Maiming Strike, won't work that great since the combo counter did become an resource type for Heavy attacks, which they are trying to promote that to us, and doesn't grant bonus damage for normal attacks anymore
Heavy attack just drain everything from combo counter from full to zero
what is Atterax without Blood Rush effect? an not so great Secura Lecta, without the passive credit drop

 

Edited October 26, 2019 by Zeyez
like this topic, everything in the world can be changed, it just needs the right words... and the left ones too

[--F--NerevarCM]

17 minutes ago, Flying_Scorpion said:

DE, we've already said many times that there is a powercreep issue in Warframe. So why are you buffing the damage, range, and block angle of melee weapons? I just don't get it. They're already strong, was there a need for this? Or are you doing this to generate hype for your next big patch?

We are losing combo meter damage multiplier. To make up for that the weapons will have increase base damage.

And before you say "But melee weapons don't need a buff or the combo meter multiplier", before the multiplier, melee was useless.

[Flying_Scorpion]

Just now, Genitive said:

They buff the damage mainly because they change the way the combo counter works. With the rework, the combo counter will only increase the damage of charge attacks, as opposed to all the damage, as it is now. And since melee damage won't increase the more enemies you kill, the damage increase is needed to compensate.

 

This makes sense! Thank you. This is the best answer to my question so far. 

[Flying_Scorpion]

1 minute ago, Zeyez said:

if they don't adjust those meele weapons after that update, most of them will become much more weaker than they were before, specially after Condition Overload stacking nerf, Blood Rush and Maiming strike nerf, which are one of main concerns that restrict meele options
example: Atterax, which relies on Blood Rush and Maiming Strike, won't work that great since the combo counter did become an resource type for Heavy attacks, which they are trying to promote that to us and Heavy attack just drain everything from combo counter from full to zero
what is Atterax without Blood Rush effect? an not so great Secura Lecta, without the passive credit drop

 

This also makes sense. Thank you.

 

1 minute ago, -OP-NerevarCM said:

We are losing combo meter damage multiplier. To make up for that the weapons will have increase base damage.

And before you say "But melee weapons don't need a buff or the combo meter multiplier", before the multiplier, melee was useless.

 

Also makes sense. Thank you 🙂 I understand now.

Edited October 26, 2019 by Flying_Scorpion

[lukinu_u]

They increasing melee damages because with the new changes, combo counter will only affect heavy attack, meaning regular hit will no longer benefit from the x2-4.5 it can give if you build up combo counter.
 

il y a 16 minutes, Nakrast a dit :

Why is power creep an issue? What's the difference between oneshotting someone with 2.000 damage or oneshotting someone with 2.000.000 damage? Sure, with stronger weapons we can have an easier time in endurance runs, but how is it an issue?

The more damages you can get, the less you need to build for damage and can use your mod slots for something else without sacrifiing damage output as you already have more than you need. It means you can use these slots for range, attack speed, life steal, etc... anything than indirectly increase your damage output with AoE or other useful stats that make melee even stronger.

Also, considering you always OS as a base for balancing the game is not the right way to think.

[Walkampf]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Nakrast:

why is power creep an issue (in a power fantasy game that is)?

The issue is, that some people are not smart enough to actually  understanding the concept of a 'power fantasy' in videogames and why being to OP is not a powerfantasy, but just boring.

[KennBone]

PEople just fear... bcs spin to win dont will work like now... anyway condition overload  will become stronger... why you need ( actually ) stack 5 stats dmgs on same enemie just for make more dmg on him.. that enemy die in seconds before you get the real bonus of all stats... but for sure we will need a charge atack speed mods.

[Flying_Scorpion]

Just now, davej83 said:

PEople just fear... bcs spin to win dont will work like now... anyway condition overload  will become stronger... why you need ( actually ) stack 5 stats dmgs on same enemie just for make more dmg on him.. that enemy die in seconds before you get the real bonus of all stats... but for sure we will need a charge atack speed mods.

I agree, I think that Condition Overload is going to be even more powerful after the rework. I see it as a buff, not a nerf.

[George_PPS]

@Flying_Scorpion
Buffed? The maximum damage potential of the current melee system is being reduced by at least 1,100%/3 just by nerfing Condition Overload alone. We lost HUGE on melee damages. You nerfers want some nerfs; we are getting HUGE nerfs. The max damage power of melee probably will be reduced by 1000 times if other Mods are nerfed in similar scales. If you want this game to become a Street Fighter like game, keep asking for nerfs. 

[George_PPS]

3 hours ago, Flying_Scorpion said:

I agree, I think that Condition Overload is going to be even more powerful after the rework. I see it as a buff, not a nerf.

CO buffed? Go BACK to school and take some math classes plz. 

[George_PPS]

4 hours ago, Nakrast said:

Why is power creep an issue? What's the difference between oneshotting someone with 2.000 damage or oneshotting someone with 2.000.000 damage? Sure, with stronger weapons we can have an easier time in endurance runs, but how is it an issue?

Recent bosses aren't bullet sponges anymore, so no matter how much damage you do, you still need to go through their phases.

So, again, why is power creep an issue (in a power fantasy game that is)?

Nerfers are ruining the game and taking away the power of Warframes and weapons. Power creep is not an issue if they get the power and know how to mod. So many of these nerfers don't know how to mod and haven't even used certain weapons or builds and asking for nerfs because they don't have it. 

[Flying_Scorpion]

 

Thankfully you aren't the game designer.