DE should make more story quests that expand on characters in the game

[TheHappyTyranid]

Maybe we can find out just how freaking Alad V, Captain Vor (Uncorrupted), and Lyphantis keep on getting revived.

That, and I'd really like a quest where we get more interaction with other characters that seem to have been left to the wayside, like Maroo, Stalker, Clem, Darvo, Teshin, and even Helminth.

[peterc3]

17 minutes ago, Formous said:

I never said the story was done.  By the nature of the game, it can continue.  Rather what I see is that they created one off stories.  Why? I feel that is due to their notably slow development speed in the vein of their stories.  They seem to have forgotten every character and insisted on just adding a new one each new story.  Even if, in the case of Ballas, it was a character from the written lore, they got rid of him remarkably fast and revived him for the prologue. It's likely our next encounter with him will be a assassination quest to kill him, thus killing off a vital character.

If the characters were going to intersect in the future, I would have thought that Hunhow would have made a true appearance again after Octavia's anthem, but that did not happen yet at a seemingly critical juncture.  And the Stalker is somehow now persona non grata, which is weird given how much we have explored the topic of the Operator. The Stalker is as much a foil to the Operators as you could truly get with characters.

This is a lot of words to say there's zero reason to think DE has forgotten about the characters they have written and the story isn't done.

Why do you feel that you know DE's story plans for Warframe better than they do?

3 hours ago, Formous said:

If it were to me, I would like to see more story quests being made each year. Not one quest, but a number of them.

How do you feel they could do this, given their current pace of updates?

[TARINunit9]

On 2019-10-28 at 9:13 AM, Formous said:

 

Stalker? Where is he?

Hunhow? Where is he?

Ballas? Just how fast are we intended to kill him? He was barely on screen in the Sacrifice. And yes, I know his backstory through researching the lore

Grineer Worm Queen? She is also abandoned.

Teshin, who risked all for us? What is going on with him?  

Hunhow is dead as of Octavia's Anthem. Bit of an anticlimax, but at least we got a facsimile of a true boss fight

Ballas is a temporary ally, we might not need to kill him anymore. We would have killed him if it weren't for Natah, who promptly betrayed him anyway

Worm Queen is sitting in her Kuva fort building Kuva Lichs to hunt us so she can revive her sister

After the destruction of the Scepter, Teshin has no further ambitions but to try and advertise Conclave. He's doing fine

Only Stalker really has questions left. He's training Acolytes, but for what? Are they related to his existential crisis?

Edited October 30, 2019 by TARINunit9

[Formous]

2 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

This is a lot of words to say there's zero reason to think DE has forgotten about the characters they have written and the story isn't done.

Why do you feel that you know DE's story plans for Warframe better than they do?

How do you feel they could do this, given their current pace of updates?

Given my own knowledge of storyboarding, I realize that they will have detailed the story plans for the New War at this time. It will be kept in a packet after editing and in a file n their data base. After that, will be conceptual ideas of development paths.

With that in mind, I feel I can anticipate their plans fairly well and accurately, given I have seen this type of story before.  But now I must factor in how they have historically done all other major story arcs of late from Second Dream and up. With the observations I have made being consistent, I feel that they are going to introduce new characters, Natah's mother and brother, use Ballas for a short time and make him a assassination target for the Mother sentient tileset, and have the Brother involved likely in a story quest.   Liable to be the New War quest itself.  His defeat or survival will vary, depending how much Steve wishes to go.  With this in mind, the Involved characters come New War will consist of Natah, natah's brother, Mother, Ballas, Ordis, the Operator. It's possible that other characters will be involved, but the New War has been described as a Family themed story, with natah needing to choose. This means our messed up extended family includes everyone in the family, from Natah's original to her new Child.  It won't conclude fast, I don't think DE would do that, but I'd like some regular pace to it.  it is unlikely to include Teshin or older cast though, but Umbra may remain.  Hunhow is possible, but unlikely.

As to your 2nd question. How do I feel they could do this?

The answer is in the observation.  Prior to Eidolon, DE was able to maintain a steady supply of weapons, frames, and quests by all acounts. I joined between the War within and Eidolon.  Closer to the War within.  When Eidolon occured, I was present to observe the drastic slow down in the development pace of Eidolon. After Eidolon, DE insisted on Venus, and teased the Sacrifice. We have maintained this drastic slowdown. The release of frames convinces me that a seperate team does frames, but the main team has been so engaged on these huge open worlds that their considerable art talent in environment work has gone to ground and waste, and lots of resources are being built into fairly isolated islands of gameplay.  Railjack differs, of course, as it is more inter-connected.

So I break my answer in two Parts.  Before Eidolon, I think DE could have spent a year making Railjack, and use it's ability to do randomized maps and missions to host the New War together with squadlink.  With the new space field, they could use the tilesets to throw together quests a bit more quickly and with greater variety.  It could have been 2-3 quests a year post Railjack, it still could be.

But after Eidolon, I doubt they can do it fast. Duviri would have to be the last open world. If we could stop making these little isolated grind islands of content, DE might be able to do more quests and such content, maybe even remake Raids.  Like..I would have treated the Duviri Paradox as a Tileset with the Zariman 10-0 as a series of raids into its various decks. But my hopes are not high on such a outcome with a open world.

[TARINunit9]

35 minutes ago, TheHappyTyranid said:

Maybe we can find out just how freaking Alad V, Captain Vor (Uncorrupted), and Lyphantis keep on getting revived.

The part where Alas V gets thrown out a window is probably not canon, meaning he nearly died when we shot him, and was infested by leftover spores

Captain Vor might have had a backup clone that teamed up with Lech Kril

Lephantis can ressurect from spores, according to sortie flavor text

[TheHappyTyranid]

27 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

The part where Alas V gets thrown out a window is probably not canon, meaning he nearly died when we shot him, and was infested by leftover spores

Captain Vor might have had a backup clone that teamed up with Lech Kril

Lephantis can ressurect from spores, according to sortie flavor text

Really? Sweet. Didn't know about the Lephantis thing. As for Alad V, in game, we shoot him to bloody death, then kill him when he's infested, and he's still kicking around. The dude's prob got the secret to immortality and isn't sharing. He also keeps going inbetween infested, post-infestation, and pre-infestation. That's pretty weird if you ask me. Time loops mayhaps?

There's also the question of 'Why are the raptors still around?', 'Why haven't the Hyena models become outdated?', 'What about Kayla De Thame?', 'Ambulas?', and 'How is Phorid's consciousness not completely obliterated by now? We should have found the source by now!'.

And, Ropalolyst. I have 'killed' it at least 5 times now. How the heck does it keep coming back. 

I'd actually like an entire post on this thread dedicated to how the bosses of warframe keep coming back.

[Formous]

39 minutes ago, TheHappyTyranid said:

Really? Sweet. Didn't know about the Lephantis thing. As for Alad V, in game, we shoot him to bloody death, then kill him when he's infested, and he's still kicking around. The dude's prob got the secret to immortality and isn't sharing. He also keeps going inbetween infested, post-infestation, and pre-infestation. That's pretty weird if you ask me. Time loops mayhaps?

There's also the question of 'Why are the raptors still around?', 'Why haven't the Hyena models become outdated?', 'What about Kayla De Thame?', 'Ambulas?', and 'How is Phorid's consciousness not completely obliterated by now? We should have found the source by now!'.

And, Ropalolyst. I have 'killed' it at least 5 times now. How the heck does it keep coming back. 

I'd actually like an entire post on this thread dedicated to how the bosses of warframe keep coming back.

I always thought of lephantis as the gravemind.  Because the Infested are totally not the Flood.

[TARINunit9]

56 minutes ago, TheHappyTyranid said:

Really? Sweet. Didn't know about the Lephantis thing. As for Alad V, in game, we shoot him to bloody death, then kill him when he's infested, and he's still kicking around. The dude's prob got the secret to immortality and isn't sharing. He also keeps going inbetween infested, post-infestation, and pre-infestation. That's pretty weird if you ask me. Time loops mayhaps?

There's also the question of 'Why are the raptors still around?', 'Why haven't the Hyena models become outdated?', 'What about Kayla De Thame?', 'Ambulas?', and 'How is Phorid's consciousness not completely obliterated by now? We should have found the source by now!'.

And, Ropalolyst. I have 'killed' it at least 5 times now. How the heck does it keep coming back. 

The original Jupiter gas city tilesets had a bunch of infested blobs in tucked away corners. They weren't there as a glitch or anything, they were put there by DE. Now imagine the spores start to spread and find Alas V's corpse...

No idea how Muralist Alas survives though, but he was a mad scientist, DE could pull any handwaved they want

For Corpus proxies, they DO become outdated in the lore. As just one example, the new Ambulas replacing the old Ambulas is canon, as per Ambulas Reborn

As for Ropalolyst, canonically you only killed it once. Grinding bosses in that manner isn't canon

Edited October 28, 2019 by TARINunit9

[Gurpgork]

1 hour ago, TheHappyTyranid said:

The dude's prob got the secret to immortality and isn't sharing.

Well, Hunhow does call him "Orokin," so it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest. 

[Formous]

As much fun as it would be to speculate about Alad, the Orokin, and Hunhow, that is yet another plot thread I really wish could be explored, to understand how the Sentients even identify Orokin.  All we know, Orokin = human. Even the twisted forms of humans in the grineer and Corpus.  

[844448]

9 hours ago, Formous said:

But the issue is Time.  There is too little going on.  For perspective, FF14(I know its a different game, different style, ect) is able to produce high quality writing and cinematic story telling as well as instanced unique combat situations with shocking speed comapred to what I see DE doing.  Not 3 months since the release of their Shadowbringers expansion which was story telling gold, they are releasing 8 more such story missions, a entire new raid, and more.

Do these cost you money? And how many people are working on it compared to DE?

[Chicken-Biryani]

10 hours ago, Oreades said:

You abandoned mention of our main Grineer, Tyl 

Yeah! 

[Chicken-Biryani]

7 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

Captain Vor might have had a backup clone that teamed up with Lech Kril

Ewwww! That's very smart of Vor in that case. 

[Formous]

3 minutes ago, 844448 said:

Do these cost you money? And how many people are working on it compared to DE?

Yeah, they do.  Infact they come as a complete chunky package with the expansion, and are included in the post expansions that occur afterward. Tommorow morning part of that comes as a free installment added to shadowbringers.  Yeah I pay a sub, but even then I feel I get a lot for it.

By comparison, I paid a lot for cosmetics, slots, and what-have-you in Warframe. No regrets, not at all, but for the sums paid in, there is shockingly little expansion in comparison.  

The problem with calling me out in making this comparison is that you assume "Different game, Different Money, not comparable."  I disagree. I think there are valuable lessons to be learned about other games that are doing something really well. And face it. Content Drought? Yeah..real problem. And yes, DE Steve and Co. openly acknowledged this is a issue, thus defeating any attempt to defend the lack of updates to the game.  As such, we must evolve the discussion to "What can be done? What Should be Done? And What is able to be Done?"

I respond with Story. I think more story would really flesh out this game. I can only fool myself that sabotage mission did something so often.  But if the New War kicks off, having story quests lends immensely to the weight of the New War as a atmospheric event that we should all be feeling. And a part of feeling that is not just in random missions, but in the story quests too.  

Again, to iterate, I think Railjack is a perfect vehicle for connecting the game together and I approve of it. I think Lichs are a great idea but will need expanding and fairly common appearances, but I approve of it. I approve of them because it adds to the game in a way that Eidolon and venus could never do. But while both create scenarios for short stories, they peter out eventually and need a substantial story-telling plot.

[844448]

3 minutes ago, Formous said:

Yeah, they do.  Infact they come as a complete chunky package with the expansion, and are included in the post expansions that occur afterward. Tommorow morning part of that comes as a free installment added to shadowbringers.  Yeah I pay a sub, but even then I feel I get a lot for it.

That alone shows how much budget they can spend on development. You get what you pay for

4 minutes ago, Formous said:

By comparison, I paid a lot for cosmetics, slots, and what-have-you in Warframe. No regrets, not at all, but for the sums paid in, there is shockingly little expansion in comparison.  

And in comparison, how many players that pay like you compared to free players in warframe? As an example, I haven't spent a dime in warframe and go full trader in trading chat, and I would grind forever than pay and I must be the biggest cheapskate in warframe. How many players are like me compared to paying players like you?

7 minutes ago, Formous said:

Content Drought?

Is it though? Profit-Taker? Exploiter? Eidolon? Sortie? Arbitration?

Tell me, what do you play in FFXIV after the story?

As for open worlds they made, they add a lot of lore if you pay attention to it. Saya's Vigil isn't just a story between Saya, Onkko and Konzu, it expands about the orokin tower technology (tower meat), The reason behind the eidolon roaming the plains and the background about gara. Not only that, it expands the story from Onkko where you're anticipated by the quills who apparently have a connection with the unum.

Orb Vallis expands the story about Nef and his wealth by making use of his slave from debts, how the people fare with it and finally rebelling against him, leading to orb heists.

Really, there are many lore to find if you acknowledge it

And now for the development, Square Enix has 4300 employees in it, just putting 10% of it means they have double the manpower to develop content and don't forget out of 200 people in DE, not everyone works on the story

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Development_Team

[Formous]

15 minutes ago, 844448 said:

And in comparison, how many players that pay like you compared to free players in warframe? As an example, I haven't spent a dime in warframe and go full trader in trading chat, and I would grind forever than pay and I must be the biggest cheapskate in warframe. How many players are like me compared to paying players like you?

I am not that big a spender for Warframe.  Ive gotten plenty of slots and so on, but no whale.

15 minutes ago, 844448 said:

Is it though? Profit-Taker? Exploiter? Eidolon? Sortie? Arbitration?

I am afraid that those peter out as far as content.  I made my inaros build, grabbed Jat Kitag, and have run hour runs many times.  It's fun, but it's got it's limitations. Profit taker was fun the first 20 times. Ill play it..now and then.  Eidolon can be sniped by my Lanka.  Sortie..well we all have haven't we?

15 minutes ago, 844448 said:

Tell me, what do you play in FFXIV after the story?

Dungeons, raids, dailies.  I level a new class, play a new character, gear and kit myself out and up and coming classes, and I rp.  Half my post game content is self make-able.

Tomorrow, I get to add story back to that list.  Ironically, Warframe beat ff14 to the punch on replayable quests, which have tided me over till now.

Personally, I feel that if 14 and Warframe share 1 thing, it's the intriguing world.  I get Warframe will never get to expand on it's like FF14(or warhammer 40k which you can draw parallels to in warframe), but I refuse to accept that Warframe can produce nothing in comparison.  For perspective, 14 gives me Story for hours, raids, bosses, levels and new powers.

Warframe has given me arbitrations as a game mode on maps I have fought over a dozen times.  I truly think it could do more then it has.

15 minutes ago, 844448 said:

As for open worlds they made, they add a lot of lore if you pay attention to it. Saya's Vigil isn't just a story between Saya, Onkko and Konzu, it expands about the orokin tower technology (tower meat), The reason behind the eidolon roaming the plains and the background about gara. Not only that, it expands the story from Onkko where you're anticipated by the quills who apparently have a connection with the unum.

Open worlds added a little lore. Not a lot. A little.  Mostly hidden fragments that tell some fairly odd and contradictory stories.  Like how Gara 'sacrificed' herself, when we all know that is clearly impossible. Gara's operator is still trouncing about the world somewhere. Maybe in a new warframe.  Given how its not common knowledge Tenno are replaceable puppets, I can see why Ostrons might think it a sacrifice, but thats not really the case.  Still, for what it is, it doesn't detail much lore. Just general passages of history in specific times and cases.

 

I guess what it comes to is I think DE is more then able.  I think they have the capacity for some good scenery, positioning, choreography, and story boarding that goes nearly un-used.  I truly think it wouldn't hurt for once to set down the constant gameplay, and make a game out of that gameplay.  What is Warframe? Grind Hell?  We do the same thing always and that is unlikely to change.  So why not put some time towards making it all mean a little more something. the Ordis-Lotus is getting old on people. Ordis-lotus should have been far, far more temporary then it is.  Now its just annoyance and a old cephalon who cares for the warframe PC in a heartening way is now just irritating people.  I'd very much like to move on now, and I don't think 1 or 2 quests is asking all that much.

 

Edited October 29, 2019 by Formous

[TARINunit9]

1 hour ago, --C--Nehra said:

Ewwww! That's very smart of Vor in that case. 

Honestly that's just the best guess I have because in the tutorial Vor has this line:

"Our love will be reborn as we feed on your divine blood. Our children will flourish without disease. And I will die, at last, at peace. Father. Grandfather."

I can't tell if he's doing Oro transference like the Kweens are and thus he WANTS to die, or if he's about to die of old age regardless and he's talking about his legacy