Players refusing to Mercy their Lich

[Kai]

I know there's a possibility of multiple liches spawning in a single mission, but never while one is already active - and there are always players who tend to just leave them, ensuring no other liches spawn for that mission. Can we do something about that? Perhaps have the Lich de-spawn once the their progenitor is 50 meters away from it?

[Lost_Cartographer]

I'd wager if stabbing them without an or with an incorrect word didn't level them up, thus forcing the pregenator to wade through an even higher level of Grineer for... virtually no benefit at all, people would be more willing to shank them to get them out of the way.

[Kai]

2 minutes ago, Lost_Cartographer said:

I'd wager if stabbing them without an or with an incorrect word didn't level them up, thus forcing the pregenator to wade through an even higher level of Grineer for... virtually no benefit at all, people would be more willing to shank them to get them out of the way.

Thus I suggested that they just simply de-spawn if they wish to not stab them or have any plans dealing with them to make way for other possible liches spawning in the mission.

[D06pblH9l]

People not trying to execute their lich is a response to a horrible murmur grind. Currently I know of two benefits you get, if you don't try to kill him.

Edited November 3, 2019 by D06pblH9l

[Kai]

1 minute ago, D06pblH9l said:

People not trying to execute their lich is a response to a horrible murmur grind. Currently I know of two benefits you get, if you don't try to kill him.

That I know, but the rate of Thralls spawning regularly and the ones spawning around the Lich are equally the same.

[D06pblH9l]

2 минуты назад, Kai сказал:

That I know, but the rate of Thralls spawning regularly and the ones spawning around the Lich are equally the same.

No it's not. Mission spawned thralls, stop spawning when they give you approximately 20% of your reqiuem bar. But if you keep him alive while you at the mission, you get more than 20% from that mission.

[Lost_Cartographer]

1 hour ago, Kai said:

Thus I suggested that they just simply de-spawn if they wish to not stab them or have any plans dealing with them to make way for other possible liches spawning in the mission.

Nah, the approach to leveling them up needs to be looked at.  We should be able to get all stabby without hesitation as it feels good.

And while we're on the subject of rank ups, maybe their soldiers shouldn't level up with them, except maybe their thralls, as they're already a separate level from the rest of the chaff anyway.  The occasional 120 mixed in with stock 60-70's isn't going to overwhelm most players (I hope.)

Or perhaps instead of leveling up amounting to raw stats, the lich and co. gain new resistances and immunities or new elemental types of damage (or powers) and a player has to deal with that?  Like using corrosive do yah?  Well first time his army grows resistant, second time immune, but they're still effectively level ~60.  What I'm saying is this - Ranking up meaning new curveballs might be more interesting than simply requiring bigger guns from the player.

Edited November 3, 2019 by Lost_Cartographer

[Kai]

1 hour ago, Lost_Cartographer said:

Nah, the approach to leveling them up needs to be looked at.  We should be able to get all stabby without hesitation as it feels good.

And while we're on the subject of rank ups, maybe their soldiers shouldn't level up with them, except maybe their thralls, as they're already a separate level from the rest of the chaff anyway.  The occasional 120 mixed in with stock 60-70's isn't going to overwhelm most players (I hope.)

Or perhaps instead of leveling up amounting to raw stats, the lich and co. gain new resistances and immunities or new elemental types of damage (or powers) and a player has to deal with that?  Like using corrosive do yah?  Well first time his army grows resistant, second time immune, but they're still effectively level ~60.  What I'm saying is this - Ranking up meaning new curveballs might be more interesting than simply requiring bigger guns from the player.

There's a lot of issues with stabbing a Lich, namely one is that if you have the incorrect mods, you die. The enemies within their missions aren't an issue, well - some of them are like a 100+ Nox rampaging across the map, other than that, there's really no issue with the level of the enemies. Sorties have already introduced 100+ enemies and this one is no different.

 

Although having a new curveball sounds interesting, I just fought my lich who had Oberon's Abilities and me and my team were simply obliterating each other while draining away its health due to Radiation.

[Chaincat]

5 minutes ago, Kai said:

There's a lot of issues with stabbing a Lich, namely one is that if you have the incorrect mods, you die. The enemies within their missions aren't an issue, well - some of them are like a 100+ Nox rampaging across the map, other than that, there's really no issue with the level of the enemies. Sorties have already introduced 100+ enemies and this one is no different.

 

Although having a new curveball sounds interesting, I just fought my lich who had Oberon's Abilities and me and my team were simply obliterating each other while draining away its health due to Radiation.

level 100+ enemies aren't a problem. Level 100+ bosses that are immune to statuses and abilities are. We just have to use big damage number guns and it's kinda annoying.

[Avienas]

2 hours ago, Kai said:

Thus I suggested that they just simply de-spawn if they wish to not stab them or have any plans dealing with them to make way for other possible liches spawning in the mission.

Honestly this should of took the capture target approach. If you do not stab them within 30 seconds or maybe even a minute to be generous due to a huge swarm of `mobs` in the way, after they have been downed. they would instead escape and they could make sure they would not get to level up at all. If D.E. has yet to put a proper bonus in place for Kuva Liches to be higher level, such as greatly boosting the payoff you get for finally killing them or them to cause a planet to have a darksector bonus effect based on their rank towards you, aka a special resource booster modifier, well then that kind of ruins it.

Speaking of which though...

Why did d.e. not implement extra boons to having a lich follower? I think it would be nice if you could assign them to a planet or for maybe 24 hours for boons after you convert a lich OR the planet you took them down on, could give vastly increased affinity/resource drops for a while, the whole gag with them is pilfering alot of resources, which could translate to others keeping resources tightly locked up while the lich is present, after the lich poofs, the `purse strings` could come loose and then tenno could enjoy a massive harvest of increased loot chances from said planet as a bonus. Certainly would be a nice extra boon, instead of a unreliable `Kingdom Hearts 2, Mickey Mouse comes to help you out`, because you are having a difficult time on some content.

If people want to keep using the `game is about grinding/looting excuse` all the time, then D.E. needs to start making said new systems, tie back into the looting/grinding part of the game, then once again: `being a side-island of content, which you only visit for a few things and have next to nothing to make one want to come back to it, till several months later, when it gets a smidgeon of a expansion on it.`

Edited November 3, 2019 by Avienas

[Lost_Cartographer]

7 hours ago, Kai said:

There's a lot of issues with stabbing a Lich, namely one is that if you have the incorrect mods, you die. The enemies within their missions aren't an issue, well - some of them are like a 100+ Nox rampaging across the map, other than that, there's really no issue with the level of the enemies. Sorties have already introduced 100+ enemies and this one is no different.

 

Although having a new curveball sounds interesting, I just fought my lich who had Oberon's Abilities and me and my team were simply obliterating each other while draining away its health due to Radiation.

*I* consider level 100 enemies a PITA, and I'm sure I'm not alone in that sentiment, as likely evidenced by people reluctant to take one on the chin from their lich so said lich can scram.

Not all of us care to grab the biggest gun in the locker and a frame that can shut down the AI with a button press.  The longer I can keep my lich's minions ~level 60 such that I can get away with decent, FUN firearms and not need to cheese my way to victory, the better my experience with this content is.

So yeah, their level going up is an issue.  Feel free to disagree, that's fine, but I'm not taking down my lich for your sake if it means my game play experience gets worse.

Edited November 3, 2019 by Lost_Cartographer

[Kai]

13 hours ago, Lost_Cartographer said:

*I* consider level 100 enemies a PITA, and I'm sure I'm not alone in that sentiment, as likely evidenced by people reluctant to take one on the chin from their lich so said lich can scram.

Not all of us care to grab the biggest gun in the locker and a frame that can shut down the AI with a button press.  The longer I can keep my lich's minions ~level 60 such that I can get away with decent, FUN firearms and not need to cheese my way to victory, the better my experience with this content is.

So yeah, their level going up is an issue.  Feel free to disagree, that's fine, but I'm not taking down my lich for your sake if it means my game play experience gets worse.

I would like to both agree and disagree. Having level 100 enemies is a nice challenge, but it gets tiring after a while and it's not only the biggest gun you would want to carry, you would want to bring the tankiest frame like Inaros, Wukong, Nidus, or other frames that can mitigate one-shotting Grineers. I really hope they just de-spawn after a while if they don't want to deal with them.

[GPrime96]

On 2019-11-03 at 1:17 AM, Kai said:

 Perhaps have the Lich de-spawn once the their progenitor is 50 meters away from it?

I would be fine with this and this is from a person who saw a lot of Players ignoring to do Mercy Finishers to their Lich. Normally see that happen at Lvl 3 Kuva Lich and higher. Even at lvl 5, they are not that big of a issue Solo and in a Squad. 

[Genoscythe]

It would be nice to simply inform players that trying runes is usually faster than ginding murmurs, I finished 8 out of 10 liches before unlocking my 2nd/3rd murmur. Also the instant kill needs to go. It's terrible to punish players for doing the right thing, which is fighting their lich, taking away 70% of current hp would be more in line with warframe logic. Most players also don't seem to know that liches cap out at 5 and are afraid to fight level 200 enemies, even if max level is barely above sortie.

 

Oh, and their status immunity has to go, seriously what's the issue with DE making all enemies of importance completely status immune. Just beef up his HP a bit more to compensate.

Edited November 4, 2019 by Genoscythe

[RMSGM]

Well couple that with the fact that many players just go to extraction if mission completed, leaving you to fight your lich in a few seconds and then mission is over, i dunno whats best.

Of course i can solo, but these whole mechanics just seem wrong and rushed.

[Pizzarugi]

I made a suggestion on how to give players incentive to mercy their lich here.

19 hours ago, Pizzarugi said:

3. Add some more incentive to rank up your Lich
As far as I've seen, all that you get from ranking up your Lich (failing to execute them with the correct Requiem mod order) is that they get better element resistances and their influenced missions get higher difficulty levels. That's it! All you get is a higher risk, but not an equivalent reward. I would lose literally nothing if I chose to avoid ranking up the Lich and defeating them at rank 1. Perhaps have their rank determine the elemental bonus percent of their gun, give them a significant stat buff if you choose to convert, maybe have ranks determine "interest" value of resources stolen when you have them returned with +0% at rank 1 up to +20% at 5. These are just a couple ideas off the top of my head on how to make it more worthwhile to rank them up.

Right now, there's no incentive to mercy Liches. Higher ranks reward nothing. If players had more incentive to take the L and get broken over their knee, you might see people more willing to try and mercy them.

[Lost_Cartographer]

9 hours ago, Genoscythe said:

Oh, and their status immunity has to go, seriously what's the issue with DE making all enemies of importance completely status immune. Just beef up his HP a bit more to compensate.

Until energy income isn't akin to searching for water in the ocean, stopping us from back-to-back stunning them is the only way our enemies have a chance to fight back.

Edited November 4, 2019 by Lost_Cartographer

[Genoscythe]

Il y a 3 heures, Lost_Cartographer a dit :

Until energy income isn't akin to searching for water in the ocean, stopping us from back-to-back stunning them is the only way our enemies have a chance to fight back.

You're right, right out stunlocking bosses should not be a thing, but when it comes to status effects that damage or debuff they could at least give us diminishing returns, resistances are a thing too, but instead we have to cope with constant full immunities that make everything crit/raw damage based and kill variety, using a status melee on a lich is like throwing babies at a tank.

[Rogunz]

9 hours ago, Pizzarugi said:

Right now, there's no incentive to mercy Liches. Higher ranks reward nothing. If players had more incentive to take the L and get broken over their knee, you might see people more willing to try and mercy them.

A thrall for a level 5 lich gives more progress than one for a lvl 1 lich. You also get a chance to guess a mod which can make the process much faster.

[Pizzarugi]

5 minutes ago, Rogunz said:

A thrall for a level 5 lich gives more progress than one for a lvl 1 lich. You also get a chance to guess a mod which can make the process much faster.

I'm pretty sure you still need 50 thralls. Is it possible you're mistaking them making more progress to you angering your Lich enough for them to spawn more frequently and thus increase thrall spawns? I've noticed that when my Lich is enraged and appears in almost every mission, the amount of thralls pour into missions like crazy. Problem is, you can do this with them at rank 1 and not deal with the incremental levels brought by raising it up.