Toxic lich hunter bullies are spreading "badwill", ban them.

[8faiNt]

6 hours ago, RougeMagma said:

The lich and the cryopod are not next to each other. Either take care of the lich or protect the cryopod. It's a public match. After you played this game awhile like me, you'll know that not everyone is always prepped.

yeah but if you're not preped. whats the problem its on you not cuz mission is hard or something

[SordidDreams]

2 hours ago, Braneman said:

I actually feel bad about responding to you in basically a copy of this discussion five days ago now, you seem to be here to stir up trouble, ignore points that you can't counter to declare yourself the winner and stringently avoid saying a single constructive thing about how this clearly strife inducing mechanic can be changed and it very likely will be patched. Have you really been on the forums for the past five days in threads like this? For somebody who says they "learn faster than others" you seem to have a real blind spot for some things.

I don't know why you people insist on making it personal instead of addressing the points I'm making. It's almost like you can't, so you resort to attacking the person. But fine, you want to make this about me personally? Okay. Yeah, I keep repeating the same things over and over. That's not because I learn slowly, it's because I'm trying to help other people understand what is already clear to me. By your logic, a teacher repeating the same things to different classes of students is a very slow learner.

2 hours ago, Braneman said:

this is Warframe, it's going to be patched somehow

I hope so, but I have my doubts. My faith in DE's willingness to listen to the community has been shaken lately. We'll see.

2 hours ago, Braneman said:

Here let me start with some constructive ideas, when the Lich comes into the mission they should automatically spawn the max number of thralls around them that they can spawn up to the mission cap.(presumably DE wants to keep a cap on thralls per mission)

List the Lich's vulnerabilities and weaknesses more prominently somewhere in the UI with stronger contrasting colors so people know what will damage the lich more. This seems to be a real blind spot for lich hunting for a lot of people.

Label your lich specifically in the ingame mission UI so people no longer have the problem of "is it my Lich?"

Bring back lich murmurs from other people's lich attempts in some way, I think this would be best as some kind of pickup so people stay close during the attempt.

Those are all good ideas that should be implemented, but none of them addresses the core issues of "dying to the lich doesn't feel good" and "leveling up the lich is not worth it", which are at the center of this whole controversy. I've not bothered to suggest a solution because it's obvious and has been suggested many times already. But sure, I've repeated other things, I can repeat this for you too: A lich that is downed but not stabbed simply despawns without ranking up. Very simple, very obvious, completely foolproof, solves both problems at the same time, still not implemented by DE after more than two weeks of this sh*tshow. See what I mean about my faith being shaken?

45 minutes ago, White_Matter said:

Like I've told you, you can't get all the benefits of playing with a squad and ignore your squad mates. That is hypocrisy. And shouldn't be tolerated in a game that is based on squad play.

I agree completely, which is why the wants of people who want to stab liches must not be put ahead of the needs of people who can't afford to.

 

Edited November 16, 2019 by SordidDreams

[White_Matter]

19 minutes ago, HeeBeeJeeBee said:

 

Here is my suggested fix for the lich issue: If a player has no requiem mod in first slot when stabbing, the lich kills them (you did stab them), the lich leaves, NO rank up. It's simple, preparable, noob friendly, and provides a strategic method to keep playing happily with your fellow tenno☺

Underrated post. 

Honestly this would solve the issue without needing to add an aditional mechanic.

Those who are too weak or lazy enough to deal with high level content(lmao) can opt to leave their parazon unmodded and the rest of the squad can enjoy the game the way they want to.

edit :

 

 

  

2 minutes ago, SordidDreams said:

 

I agree completely, which is why the wants of people who want to stab liches must not be put ahead of the needs of people who can't afford to.

 

Again, people who don't want to stab liches can do it solo, while killing a lich(especially at lvl 5) is more doable with a squad. 

Also lets be honest, those who don't want to stab their lich(some of them absolutley have no idea what they are doing anyways) are a minority.

1 person shouldn't be allowed to ruin the gameplay of 3 others.

 

Edited November 16, 2019 by White_Matter

[SordidDreams]

3 minutes ago, White_Matter said:

Again, people who don't want to stab liches can do it solo, while killing a lich(especially at lvl 5) is more doable with a squad. 

Again, people who want to reliably spawn their liches can do it in solo.

[Raqiya]

5 minutes ago, SordidDreams said:

Again, people who want to reliably spawn their liches can do it in solo.

Again, why do you need a squad if you don't want to kill your Lich?

[SordidDreams]

Just now, Raqiya said:

Again, why do you need a squad if you don't want to kill your Lich?

Maybe because you gave in to other people's selfish demands to stab your lich, and now your solo lich missions are too hard for you to handle on your own as a result?

[Raqiya]

Just now, SordidDreams said:

Maybe because you gave in to other people's selfish demands to stab your lich, and now your solo lich missions are too hard for you to handle on your own as a result?

Then you go public because you need help but you never get a chance to fight your Lich because someone refuses to kill their Lich in a public mission.

[Graavarg]

1 hour ago, CuChulainnWD said:

Then I would suggest YOU go solo until such time DE fixes this HOT MESS

I've taken a couple of lichs "solo only" now. It actually went as fast solo (the second maybe even faster?) as doing PUGs with randoms. Gathering murmurs solo is quite effective, missions take a bit longer but I actually get more murmurs. Especially when my lich spawns in and I don't try to end it (just mess around with it, and leaving other enemies alive for "thrall creation"). Squad missions where several liches spawns in still generate most murmurs, but only if you keep the liches alive long enough to spawn in/turn additional thralls (and this is seldom the case, instead everyone kills or is pressured to kill their lich as fast as possible 🙂). But on the other hand you often join missions already in progress, only getting a few murmurs before it ends, and missions are often completed without any liches joining in.

Solo play also rewards the intelligent mathematical approach of revealing the first requiem before testing it in the first slot, then doing the same with the second (first or second slot). If the first revealed requiem is in the first slot (33% chance) you can even break off the attack and continue with revealing the second with a pissed-off lvl 1 lich (which will join missions more reliably, and so creating more thralls). If the second revealed requiem is correct in the second spot (50% chance) you can continue with the pissed-off level 1 lich to the convert/kill phase, if you were wrong your lich will be only level 2. Having a lower level lich speeds up the solo missions (considerably, depending on planet and mission) due to warframe abilities having more effect (the inverted effect of less Grineer armor).

- - -

But this thread wasn't about what is most effective, but about that harassing and pressuring other players is plain wrong, total a-hole behaviour. The reasons and reasoning behind behaving like such an idiot doesn't matter. Somehow one would expect in this me-too era that it should be clear to everyone that blaming a rape victim for the rape ("X had so revealing clothes", "X walked home alone" etc.) just doesn't cut it anymore. Harassing other players for their totally ok behaviour of 100% playing within the allowed game setting and according to developer rules and then claiming the harassment is "their own fault" falls in the same category. Precisely. Except that the bullies now mostly get away with it, but you get punished for rape and sexual harassment.

Edited November 16, 2019 by Graavarg

[SordidDreams]

1 minute ago, Raqiya said:

Then you go public because you need help but you never get a chance to fight your Lich because someone refuses to kill their Lich in a public mission.

That's okay, though, because you're still getting plenty of murmurs and making good progress on becoming able to get rid of your lich.

[Raqiya]

2 minutes ago, SordidDreams said:

That's okay, though, because you're still getting plenty of murmurs and making good progress on becoming able to get rid of your lich.

What about the people who already know  the combination or wants to test a new one. that's okay?

[SordidDreams]

3 minutes ago, Raqiya said:

What about the people who already know  the combination or wants to test a new one. that's okay?

They can easily do so in solo or in a pre-made group that agrees with their desired playstyle.

Edited November 16, 2019 by SordidDreams

[CuChulainnWD]

6 minutes ago, Graavarg said:

But this thread wasn't about what is most effective, but about that harassing and pressuring other players is plain wrong, total a-hole behaviour. The reasons and reasoning behind behaving like such an idiot doesn't matter. Somehow one would expect in this me-too era that it should be clear to everyone that blaming a rape victim for the rape ("X had so revealing clothes", "X walked home alone" etc.) just doesn't cut it anymore. Harassing other players for their totally ok behaviour of 100% playing within the allowed game setting and according to developer rules and then claiming the harassment is "their own fault" falls in the same category. Precisely. Except that they currently mostly get away with it, but you get punished for rape and sexual harassment.

I am glad you have found a system that works for you given the mess the game mode is in right now. As I pointed out, the root cause of this Mess and the bad behavior by all parties involved is caused by DE's system and their lack of willingness to fix it as testament to the suggestions made and ignored over the past 2 weeks. If DE got their thumbs out and fixed this, then no one need be banned for behaviors systemic from frustration.

Edited November 16, 2019 by CuChulainnWD

[Raqiya]

4 minutes ago, SordidDreams said:

They can easily do so in solo or in a pre-made group that agrees with their desired playstyle.

What makes more sense?

I need help fighting my Lich -> goes public for help
or
I need help fighting my Lich -> Goes Solo

anyway the purpose of Lich's to kill them not farm Murmers off them. Killing them is the primary focus the thrall's are just extra.

[SordidDreams]

8 minutes ago, Raqiya said:

What makes more sense?

I need help fighting my Lich -> goes public for help
or
I need help fighting my Lich -> Goes Solo

anyway the purpose of Lich's to kill them not farm Murmers off them. Killing them is the primary focus the thrall's are just extra.

Oh I'm sorry, I was under the impression you stab-happy folks could solo level 100 content easily and didn't need any help. That's what I keep hearing all the time when I point out stabbing liches makes things harder, "oh level 100 is easy, any noob should be able to handle it", etc., etc.

As for the purpose of liches, that is determined by their owners, same as the purpose of any other item or object.

Edited November 16, 2019 by SordidDreams

[Raqiya]

3 minutes ago, SordidDreams said:

As for the purpose of liches, that is determined by their owners, same as the purpose of any other item or object.

So its okay to go on derelict key runs with a group and refuse to use your Dragon Key when its your turn just because its yours and you decide what to do with it. Or you go do a bounty in the plains and refuse to help but instead  mine ores just because its your Warframe or drill and you choose what to do with it?

[SordidDreams]

5 hours ago, Raqiya said:

So its okay to go on derelict key runs with a group and refuse to use your Dragon Key when its your turn just because its yours and you decide what to do with it. Or you go do a bounty in the plains and refuse to help but instead  mine ores just because its your Warframe or drill and you choose what to do with it?

Again, whether a particular action is okay or not depends on what kind of harm or benefit it brings to you and others. That's pretty clear when it comes to liches, as I have said previously. I haven't given any thought to the examples you mention, so I can't really comment on those without talking out my a**.

Edited November 16, 2019 by SordidDreams

[White_Matter]

50 minutes ago, SordidDreams said:

Again, people who want to reliably spawn their liches can do it in solo.

Repeating the same nonsense over and over again won't make it any more sensible. 

You haven't provided a single argument in favor of your view, it seems like you'r doing what you are doing for the sole sake of making other peoples lifes miserable. 

[SordidDreams]

2 minutes ago, White_Matter said:

Repeating the same nonsense over and over again won't make it any more sensible. 

You haven't provided a single argument in favor of your view, it seems like you'r doing what you are doing for the sole sake of making other peoples lifes miserable. 

Refer to my earlier reply to Braneman with regards to making things personal.

[White_Matter]

Just now, SordidDreams said:

Refer to my earlier reply to Braneman with regards to making things personal.

What I said is a broadly accepted norm, has nothing to do with making it personal.

So far I've seen literally no arguments from those who think it is ok to ignore their liches in squads, and/or the arguments they provided were all dismantled by more legitmate ones coming from the opposing side. 

Play solo fella, you'll make everyone a favor.

[JackHargreav]

52 minutes ago, Raqiya said:

Again, why do you need a squad if you don't want to kill your Lich?

Interception. 

I'm sure you can do it solo but I can't. Therefore I go into public match.

[Raqiya]

1 minute ago, JackHargreav said:

Interception. 

I'm sure you can do it solo but I can't. Therefore I go into public match.

That's a fair point.

[SordidDreams]

9 minutes ago, White_Matter said:

Play solo fella, you'll make everyone a favor.

As I said previously, I don't play this content at all. But the point you are ignoring is that well-geared players stabbing their liches in solo is more beneficial overall than undergeared players farming murmurs without stabbing liches in solo. The system is set up in such a way that there's no harmless solution, someone has to take one for the team. My point is that it should be those people to whom it's a trivial price to pay rather than those to whom it's a major burden. It seems to me that maximizing overall good and minimizing overall harm is, what's the term... oh yes, a broadly accepted norm.

Edited November 16, 2019 by SordidDreams

[Portlalaland]

1 hour ago, 8faiNt said:

yeah but if you're not preped. whats the problem its on you not cuz mission is hard or something

It's a public match. You prep with the best you have. That doesn't mean your teammates do, so you need to carry. And that's what I did.

[Aadi880]

8 minutes ago, JackHargreav said:

Interception. 

I'm sure you can do it solo but I can't. Therefore I go into public match.

I think you can get better results in recruiting chat. Here in Asia, there's always players doing murmur farms in groups. And, they'd love to do intercept (with enraged liches or not) since murmur framing is quite efficient there. Never had a single issue finding like-minded players for this task. Even if you need to test your lich and not farming murmurs, it doesn't matter because those that are murmur farming only needs you to exist to maximize thrall spawn.

Public matches are not really upto that gear, since players more often than not have different goals in mind in pubs. (ie one may be wanting to farm murmurs by keeping lich, another wants to test a mod combo).

[Portlalaland]

6 hours ago, Dharma-Beerlite said:

Firstly, if you playing on pub, the mass spawn lvl depends on the host lich lvl not yours. However, if your lich happens to spawn it will retain its current lich difficulty lvl. So best way to control your mission general spawn lvl is to do your mission solo/ like minded party with everyone lich not above lvl 2.  

The lich and the cryopod were not close to each other because that'll be too convenient. You get the lich or you protect the cryopod. I also chose defense because it's one of the longer mission which give more chance for the lich to spawn so I could kill it.