Toxic lich hunter bullies are spreading "badwill", ban them.

[iArucard]

2 hours ago, -Kittens- said:

You both are, but spawning in a public mission where the general agreeance across warframe is PTFO, and as it happens the one not playing the #$%%#$% objective is you. If you're in lich controlled territory in a public game, you're expected to deal with your lich as simple courtesy, You being unwilling to give that simple courtesy makes you the @$$hole in this situation. Whether you deserve abuse or not is a completely separate context; and no you probably don't deserve abuse, but you're still the jerk here. If you spawn a lich and then decide not do deal with it, you're actively hindering everybody else and then petulantly claiming the high ground which, in fact, doesn't exist. Play private, period.

 

You're right up there with northeast corner guy on Akkad and random four tiles away polymer farmer barrel destroyer on ViP Hostage Slash Proc Sortie and I didn't bring anything but a melee weapon to Kela De Thaym.

 

There are people who just ignore his own lich and move on to get other thrall causing other people lich can't be spawn , you know what those jerk will say , go SOLO , I was like WTH??

They were suppose to deal with their lich in public game , but instead the public game has turn into don't X your lich , they still got the cheek to tell you to go private instead...

Obviously we join pub game we are suppose to kill thrall and help out dealing with the other player lich and now this people turn the public game the another way round...

Edited November 17, 2019 by iArucard

[IamLoco]

I 100% agree with the OP that people who don´t do their liches in public games should be banned.

It´s an egoistic behaviour that prevents other people from getting a shot at their own liches.

EDIT: Maybe I should have added /sarcasm off

Edited November 17, 2019 by IamLoco

[CuChulainnWD]

2 minutes ago, IamLoco said:

I 100% agree with the OP that people who don´t do their liches in public games should be banned.

It´s an egoistic behaviour that prevents other people from getting a shot at their own liches.

Mate you are so wrong on this it is sad. Here is why. All of this situation, is on DE. They made this mess. They could EASILY fix it yet they chose not to. We have to wait until Friday to"maybe" get word back on any of the suggestions we have given them. Many of those suggestions are directed towards the bad game design both mechanically and moral lore wise in game. A Lich should be killed and resurrect stronger than before. We should not have to die to the Lich for it to get stronger. It is Bassakwards.

The current mechanics and majority rules are we SHOULD engage our Lichs for faster murmur trace gain. I rarely come across a person in a group of 4 that does not want to engage their Lich. When and if I do I talk to them politely but I educate them on the system we have, why it is not a bad thing to engage your Lich as you are helping your Fellow Tenno too. When it comes time to take on your Lich, you will have the backing of your Fellow Tenno when you are ready for the Final Show down with that R5 Lich. That is to say we operate under the mechanics we have now for maximum efficiency.

DE has created this rabid dog vitriol among its community, and it can be easily rectified. Calling for the banning of people because of the bad mechanics DE has created is going too far. We shall have to wait and see until Friday, unless DE has the good sense to address some of these issues before hand.

[Graavarg]

7 hours ago, Yoruno said:

Except in this case player B and C plans to cooperate and are expecting the same in return from player A and D while player D refuses to clear his lich for reasons, so player D gets the flak from player A/B/C since player D's action not only affects player A but also player B and C too.

Yes, but the problem here is the pre-mission expectation/demand of a player/players that one or more completely UNKNOWN player(s) shall do what THEY want in-mission, without any pre-mission communication whatsoever and regardless if the unknown player want to do it or if it even makes sense for the player ("always killing your lich" is a completely senseless idea, only valid for players FARMING liches, not for players enjoying the game).

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Also did you read what i wrote? i want to know if you are aware of the 2 points i mentioned.

Do you know that the amount of thrall conversions per mission is limited to 15? and that liches only makes them convert sooner, not more?

If these are the two pints I am well aware of them. I fail to see the significance though, since this is not about effectiveness but about the inherent right of players to play and enjoy the game without bullies forcing them to do what the bullies wants. It really, really doesn't matter if it is more or less effective, what matters is that harassing other players to do your bidding (against their will and often to their detriment) is superbly wrong. Such behaviour is horrible and deplorable in the real world (and often forbidden in law), and so it also is in Warframe.

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Do you know that dying to any other source than requiem check while lich is spawned makes your lich leave without ranking them up?

I've heard but never experienced this. Are you inferring that a player should let themselves be killed to help others?

That is of course completely ok, dying voluntarily to help others is what the nice part of the Tenno community could potentially do. But again, in no way does this condone players harassing another player to do something they want. Try it out: "it is ok to shame, harass and threaten other Tenno in order for them to commit suicide while in mission". You support that kind of thinking?

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Adding to that, now that you know you can circumvent the rankup while make it despawn, and that thrall conversion is just a tad faster, for what reason would you not clear your lich for the duration of the mission from now on?

No, the question is exactly the opposite: why should any player attack and clear his/her lich in mission?

A lich farmer focused only on loot might feel that the best way is "efficiency", but random PUG squads are open to ALL players. Everyone should just accept this, instead of trying to force random, unknown players to play a certain way.

Did you know that, if you are not in a hurry and you want to enjoy the lich mechanic, keeping your lich at level 1 and angry until you have identified all three requiems makes the mission much easier and more enjoyable? So why should this leisurely approach (which is clearly exactly within how DE has described "the lich experience") be more wrong than super-effective level 5 lich farming?

The argument that "leisure players" shouldn't join random squads is both absurd and a wrong argument. It is absurd because that (playing in random missions) is a core Warframe thing. It is a wrong argument because it applies more to those wanting to play in a specific way, if you want this you should form a specific  squad, not go into a random squad and harass other players to your bidding. Or maybe you do not agree?

Edited November 17, 2019 by Graavarg

[Graavarg]

22 minutes ago, IamLoco said:

I 100% agree with the OP that people who don´t do their liches in public games should be banned.

The OP actually called for toxic players that are harassing other players to kill their lich to be banned, and also defended the right of players to play in random missions however they like (as long as it is according to rules) and NOT being forced to adhere to the made up rules of lich farmers.

[IamLoco]

1 minute ago, Graavarg said:

The OP actually called for toxic players that are harassing other players to kill their lich to be banned, and also defended the right of players to play in random missions however they like (as long as it is according to rules) and NOT being forced to adhere to the made up rules of lich farmers.

And you can´t see the irony in this? The sarcasm?

He calls for bans for people who tell you how to play the game. Who force you to play the game like they want it to be played. Yet he is doing exactly the same thing here, forcing a playstyle upon those players who want to play the game as it was intended to be played and kill their liches.

It´s a medaillon with 2 sides. 

 

[zoffmode]

9 minutes ago, Graavarg said:

The OP actually called for toxic players that are harassing other players to kill their lich to be banned, and also defended the right of players to play in random missions however they like (as long as it is according to rules) and NOT being forced to adhere to the made up rules of lich farmers.

You're the OP. Don't need to talk about yourself in third person.

Look. I already said it before. "Made up rules" are made for a reason. Cutting in line or say holding up a line is not illegal, but people will raise hell if you keep doing it. You're essentially calling a cop to come over fix everything for you while you don't know how to behave yourself and starting up the whole mess yourself.

Edited November 17, 2019 by zoffmode

[Dharma-Beerlite]

Simple if players is concern about dying and xp go non lich mission and leveling. Lich mode is an higher content also welcome leecher to gain their xp. But if they want to farm lich loots and gain xp without doing their part finish their own lich then that is pure selfishness ...

Its a strange world now people who want to take full advantage of others and turn around calling those helping them Axx-hole. Why i say people helping them? The main reason they want to keep their lich low lvl so they can easy time dealing with it or they just cant handle higher lvl spawn. Yet they join pub game that that random host could spawn lvl 100 lvl 5 lich content which they cant/ kill slowly due to their current build and ability or just bring pure leeching lvling frame/weapons. With the help of the squad killing for them yet they turn around bitting those that they leeched on just becos they wont do their part by stabbing their own lich and allow others to have chance and spawn theirs. 

Telling those pool of good players that can easy/or no problem dealing with those lvl 5 liches to go solo mission is pure stupidity. This will end up most the pub game left with those unable/ hard time to deal with any higher lich spawn and happens one of the player needed help to kill their lich? 

Let me guess what next they gonna argue about those that cant deal with high lvl liches in pub. They will call them " no you should not come to pub game and spawn lvl 5 lich its your problem. we only preferred lvl 1 lich in the pub game. Go deal with your lich in solo or recruitment chat to seek help". 

Edited November 17, 2019 by Dharma-Beerlite

[Test-995]

4 minutes ago, Dharma-Beerlite said:

Telling those pool of good players that can easy/or no problem dealing with those lvl 5 liches to go solo mission is pure stupidity. This will end up most the pub game left with those unable/ hard time to deal with any higher lich spawn and happens one of the player needed help to kill their lich? 

You are completely misunderstanding true intention of "go solo", it's simply because that's the only reliable solution.

 

[Jitsuryoku]

I think you should ban players knowingly going multiplayer and hindering others.

That is intentionally disrespecting other players which is a violation of Code of Conduct.

Edited November 17, 2019 by Jitsuryoku

[Dharma-Beerlite]

I understand the part you referring to about the efficiency farming those loots. But not all players is interested with those not so interesting loots. As for me, I am enjoying the random spawn of higher spawn and mass spawns to kill in pub as well testing my luck if my lich spawn. There alot players out there can easy 1 hit or so to lvl 100 spawn or kill lvl 5 lich in 30 secs.    

Edited November 17, 2019 by Dharma-Beerlite

[ixidron92]

hace 8 horas, Graavarg dijo:

Yes, lets analyze:

Player A has something specific he/she wants to do in a mission, but joins a PUG co-op mission with three random players instead of forming a dedicated team through chat. Or doing it solo.

When random player B/C/D doesn't do what player A wants, player A starts screaming at player B/C/D in chat (or currently often by voice, so it will not show up on screenshots) that he/she is selfish, a noob, an idiot etc. etc. etc. including all kinds of threats.

Player A joined a mission with random players, all with their own objectives, but he/she simply cannot get through his/her head that they are not there to do his/her bidding. And that harassing other players and behaving that way under such circumstances just shows you are a complete egotistical dork as well as an idiot. And somehow forgetting that the completely normal thing to do when in a mission you don't like is to simply leave (it takes less than 5 seconds, ESC + "Abort").

So who's the one at fault here?

Except we're not talking about 4 players all doing whatever. You've just made a dumb strawman. We're talking about one player joining a game to do something against the objective of the mission and specifically detrimental to the 3 other players that want to cooperate and achieve their goal together.

It might take a while for a lich to spawn. So, if someone is forced to abort because a selfish idiot refuses to kill their lich, that's a massive waste of time on behalf of the other 3 players. A single player decided for the other 3. A single player decided all by himself that the other 3 players shouldn't have a chance to get their liches to spawn and decided to make other 3 players waste precious time. How do you think the other 3 players feel? 

And the worst part is that he decided to screw over 3 other players to avoid a minor, insignificant inconvenience. Oh, so if they mercy their liches they lose 10% affinity, big #*!%ing deal.

That's literally the equivalent of someone grabbing the datamass in mobile defense and ignoring the objective to go hunt for a Symaris target. Wouldn't you complain if a player did that? So do these other 3 people and with good reason. What baffles me is the fact that you can't understand their posture and double down on selfish idiocy, but hey, when you can't find a game because you're in the ignore list of half the server, don't complain.

[iArucard]

55 minutes ago, Graavarg said:

The OP actually called for toxic players that are harassing other players to kill their lich to be banned, and also defended the right of players to play in random missions however they like (as long as it is according to rules) and NOT being forced to adhere to the made up rules of lich farmers.

 

What random mission are you talking about? if you simply doesn't want to settle your lich , then simply don't choose the lich option when you join a node, just join a normal game. you just want to farm murmur ? sure go make a private game and farm as many thrall as your like.

 

"The OP" , aren't you the OP ? you make it sounds like you are talking to yourself.

[Aadi880]

DE should probably make these lich missions restricted to invite only, and not possible to do in public matches, like the way the Grendel missions are done.

the Grendel missions being "invite only" makes players cooperate by discussing before-hand, which is useful when doing missions that need teamwork to pass (like the defense mission and the excavation mission), this eliminates any cooperation problem that players can face (players don't just randomly start the mission without talking, its human nature to discuss when you recruit someone.).

[zoffmode]

9 minutes ago, Aadi880 said:

DE should probably make these lich missions restricted to invite only, and not possible to do in public matches, like the way the Grendel missions are done.

the Grendel missions being "invite only" makes players cooperate by discussing before-hand, which is useful when doing missions that need teamwork to pass (like the defense mission and the excavation mission), this eliminates any cooperation problem that players can face (players don't just randomly start the mission without talking, its human nature to discuss when you recruit someone.).

That just makes the whole game worse cause it's a pain to coordinate which planets people have or don't have. If people don't have planet that team is doing, they still get murmurs but their Liches can't spawn or get angry. So invite only is great for those who want to avoid stabing their Lich. Terrible for those that do.

So yeah, don't want to stab Lich? Recruit chat or solo. It's incredibly easy to do too since you don't even care what planets you have. On other hand, asking people who actually want to do the stabby deed to make private team is just pure ignorance.

Edited November 17, 2019 by zoffmode

[Graavarg]

9 minutes ago, iArucard said:

What random mission are you talking about?

It's quite easy isn't it, a mission with one to three other RANDOM players, all with their own goals, playstyle and ideas.

And they are just as allowed to join a mission with RANDOM players as any lich farmer is.

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if you simply doesn't want to settle your lich , then simply don't choose the lich option when you join a node, just join a normal game. you just want to farm murmur

No, they can freely chose the lich option and just gather murmurs. Totally ok. No grounds for any harassment or bullying. 

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sure go make a private game and farm as many thrall as your like.

It's the other way around. If you want to impose your own special rules on a mission, do so in a private team where everyone is onboard.

You have no right whatsoever forcing other players away from random missions, and no right whatsoever to demand that they play YOUR way in a random mission.

How on earth do you think you have such a right? Demanding that other random players do something YOUR way? When you actually joined a mission with RANDOMS.

[zoffmode]

1 minute ago, Graavarg said:

It's the other way around. If you want to impose your own special rules on a mission, do so in a private team where everyone is onboard.

You have no right whatsoever forcing other players away from random missions, and no right whatsoever to demand that they play YOUR way in a random mission.

How on earth do you think you have such a right? Demanding that other random players do something YOUR way? When you actually joined a mission with RANDOMS.

No, it's the other other way around. Make your own team if you want to play in a specific way that ruins the match for randoms. Have some respect for your fellow Tenno and behave properly.

[Graavarg]

33 minutes ago, ixidron92 said:

We're talking about one player joining a game to do something against the objective of the mission and specifically detrimental to the 3 other players that want to cooperate and achieve their goal together.

No it is NOT against the objective of the mission, since the objective is not to kill the lich. Just farming murmurs and not leveling up your lich is perfectly, totally ok. And no grounds for abuse or pressure whatsoever.

The three players that want to cooperate can form their own, specific private squad and cooperate as much as they like, in an agreed manner.

And btw, it is deeply ironic that "cooperation" is being used as an argument to force other players to play a certain way, against their wishes. And in a way that is detrimental to their game and gaming experience, just so psychotic lich hunters won't lose a few minutes. 

[Aadi880]

3 minutes ago, zoffmode said:

So yeah, don't want to stab Lich? Recruit chat or solo. It's incredibly easy to do too since you don't even care what planets you have. Asking people who actually want to do the stabby deed to make private team is just pure ignorance.

The same can also be said if you want to stab your lich, and the other 3 players do not want to stab theirs, and tells you to "do your lich testing solo or something".

Recruit chat or solo if you want to stab your lich.
Recruit chat or solo if you don't want to stab your lich.

Problem right there with this system.

another solution would be to introduce an ''assassination node" near the Kuva fortress where you can go to the lich's galleon and stab them there. Multiple liches can spawn if there are more players doing the node (also adds some challenge too).

As it currently stands, the current system is really not coop friendly.

[Graavarg]

2 minutes ago, zoffmode said:

Make your own team if you want to play in a specific way that ruins the match for randoms.

Indeed. Agree 100%. The specific way in this case being that "everyone has to kill their lich". Which is in no way included in the mission, as only farming murmurs and letting your lich be is perfectly ok. Easy peasy.

[zoffmode]

2 minutes ago, Graavarg said:

Indeed. Agree 100%. The specific way in this case being that "everyone has to kill their lich". Which is in no way included in the mission, as only farming murmurs and letting your lich be is perfectly ok. Easy peasy.

Yeah, so YOU should never play Public missions from the apparent reaction you're getting since you're complaing about it. Just want to get this clear.

Edited November 17, 2019 by zoffmode

[Test-995]

18 minutes ago, zoffmode said:

That just makes the whole game worse cause it's a pain to coordinate which planets people have or don't have. If people don't have planet that team is doing, they still get murmurs but their Liches can't spawn or get angry. So invite only is great for those who want to avoid stabing their Lich. Terrible for those that do.

That's a problem DE can fix, though.

Just fix it and it'll be fine.

[zoffmode]

12 minutes ago, Aadi880 said:

The same can also be said if you want to stab your lich, and the other 3 players do not want to stab theirs, and tells you to "do your lich testing solo or something".

Recruit chat or solo if you want to stab your lich.
Recruit chat or solo if you don't want to stab your lich.

Problem right there with this system.

another solution would be to introduce an ''assassination node" near the Kuva fortress where you can go to the lich's galleon and stab them there. Multiple liches can spawn if there are more players doing the node (also adds some challenge too).

As it currently stands, the current system is really not coop friendly.

Of course, system could be improved in a million ways. DE is gonna do something eventually.

I'm just saying current system favors no-stabby folk making private teams rather than stabby folk. Almost everyone in Public missions stabs anyway apart from some special snowflakes, so it's no big deal overall. But, if somehow I find myself in a team where 3 players don't want to stab - I personally have no problem quitting the mission or just doing their thing.

Edited November 17, 2019 by zoffmode

[Graavarg]

11 minutes ago, zoffmode said:

Yeah, so YOU should never play Public missions from the apparent reaction you're getting since you're complaing about it. Just want to get this clear.

I can live with idiots spewing abuse, doesn't bother me personally as I consider egoistical bullies the lowest of the low. IRL and in Warframe, no difference. Bullying won't affect my gameplay either.I will kill the lich when it makes sense, and not do it when that makes sense.

What I really don't like are lich farmers bullying lower MR to kill their lich only so the lich farmer will save a few minutes, without any care whatsoever how this affects the bullied player or if that kind of aggressive bullying is in any way even close to ok. Anyone who is currently doing lichs have seen this obnoxious behaviour time and time again. And I still think all bullies should be banned, in a perfect world DE would go through the chat stream retroactively and put these hooligans out of the game for a while.

And regarding clarity, it is already quite clear which type of player you are, by your own words.

Edited November 17, 2019 by Graavarg

[zoffmode]

1 minute ago, Graavarg said:

I can live with idiots spewing abuse, doesn't bother me personally as I consider egoistical bullies the lowest of the low. Won't affect my gameplay either.

What I really don't like are lich farmers bullying lower MR to kill their lich only so the lich farmer will save a few minutes, without any care whatsoever how this affects the bullied player or if that kind of aggressive bullying is in any way even close to ok. Anyone who is currently doing lichs have seen this obnoxious behaviour time and time again. And I still think all bullies should be banned, in a perfect world DE would go through the chat stream and retroactively put these hooligans out of the game for a while.

And regarding clarity, is already quite clear which type of player you are, by your own words.

Yeah, never saw it. It is indeed clear you are the problem and it is indeed obvious what kind of player you are. We can move on now.