MORE stat RNG, DE? Really?

[Ehdric]

hace 3 horas, Vyra dijo:

No the s10 is less powerful than the s10+



And this is exactly what we have with the Railjack Guns...
There are differences...

SO basically, you get your default gun on your Railjack which is the S10 Lite, now find yourself an S10 or even S10 Plus...

While you can do anything you need to with the S10 Lite, you can of course get yourself the S10 Plus.. if you're lucky enough.. if not.. bear with the S10 in the mean time...

 

You do realize S10Lite = MK1, S10 = MK2, S10 + = MK3. Each costs differently, and compared between each other, one will be an upgrade over the next. Compared side by side, an S10 will be EXACTLY IDENTICAL in every single way as another S10. This is what you're not understanding. You're trying to justify this by comparing different tiers of the same item, while 2 items of the SAME TIER are not the same stats across the board. 

[mark_nicht]

RNG looks like anthem weapon

 

[Elkale]

worry not lads, in a couple weeks this will all be solved when they add INVENTORY SLOTS for all the broken stuff we are collecting! 25 plat a pop, sounds about right? you cant say we are evil, we give you the first 2 slots for free!

[RS219]

20 hours ago, taiiat said:

on the other hand, we do get all of the Resources we put into Crafting any Ship Parts back if we deconstruct them, and just as they come are worth like 50 Fusion Energy.

so, we have outs for this, we can build a new thing and upgrade later and get our stuff back, or discard inferior Blueprints for the Resource that we use to upgrade Mods and Mod Slots.
this makes it...... a lot more ok to have random Stats, though maybe it's still not that appropriate but in this scenario we do have the supporting systems to let random Stats be potentially fine for long term.

 

on paper, i'm okay with having random Stats so long as i can discard things i don't want into other Credits/Resources that i want/need a lot of in the long term. as then i'm still progressing from it.
hell, imagine if we could crush Blueprint Drops and get random Railjack Resources from them as a third option?

so imagine if theoretically that we could discard Blueprints for Fusion Energy(Diric or w/e it's called) or Railjack Resources - let's say... per Tier of the item(since Tier 0 doesn't Drop, that would mean everything is atleast 2x these values) choose either +100 Diric or randomly +150 of one of the main 8 Railjack Resources. that might just be fine...
so a 'MKII' (Tier 3) Drop would offer you either 300 Diric or 450 of a Resource, if you did not wish to Craft it.

could even have yet another button for some amount of the Rare/Special Resources?

 

actually, if you discard a built Blueprint, you get all of the Resources it cost to build it back. 

you're supposed to, that's all i can say to that.

Hey. You. Take back your words, right this instant. Reports are coming out confirming that players are only getting half of their resources back when scrapping their repaired equipment, both with using a rush drone and without using one.

I can also attest to this, as it's also happened to me.

Defending DE's bad practices with incorrect information at best, lies at worst, isn't doing anyone favours.

[Synpai]

On 2019-12-14 at 12:46 AM, RS219 said:

https://old.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/ea6s6w/railjack_parts_all_come_with_rng_stats_ew_de_ew/

https://old.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/eadnt8/so_this_is_how_we_are_gonna_be_moving_foward_then/

https://old.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/eaksnq/dear_de_rng_rolls_on_equipment_is_already_bad

This utter garbage system was already cancerous enough as it is for kuva weapons especially when the system f$%^s you over if you get a lich with an inferior kuva weapon roll. Oh yeah, let's see useful valence transfer is for that newest 25% into a 50%, eh?

It's been said before but I'll say it again, this sort of RNG stat rolling is utter garbage and clogged up toilet levels of unacceptable in a game where loot doesn't drop like water and isn't usable right as it's picked up, as opposed to games like Borderlands and Path of Exile where they drop by the dozen.

This isn't justifiable, DE. PLEASE cut this out. Rivens weren't supposed to be a template and instruction manual for future weapon and equipment stat determination!

No more RNG stats.

Make sure to note that HOUSE plays into this.

1. Guns tend to be pretty standard: A [House] MK3 Pulsor = [Same House] MK3 Pulsor period end of story; HOWEVER, A [Zetki] MK3 Pulsor will differ from a [Lavan] MK3 Pulsor

2. Shields, Reactors, Engines are a toss up: A [House] MK3 Engine ?? [ANYHouse] MK3 Engine; It's a toss up even among the same house, there seem to be some slight trends, but the only thing consistent enough is that they house different abilities.

3. Avionics: Here comes the OOF; I've seen no consistency that shows that one is better than the other: A [Zetki] Hull Weave surpasses all others in base stats and its 7 ranks; however a [Vidar] Phastic Weave starts at 4.5% increase, but ranks up 7 times while the [Zetki] version starts at 5% and can only be ranked up 4

:^)

[Desolator_X]

The whole gear and mod system of railjack is a compete mess and needs a desperate overhaul before people mass leave in frustration again... 

[punish_me]

В 14.12.2019 в 13:28, Vyra сказал:

When you go out, and you tell people to show you their smartphone, you will find different phones...
same goes for Railjack enemies...why is this a problem? DIfferent crews have different equipments configurations...

Thats why me and my teammate loot same mod but with different stats? 🤔

[RS219]

29 minutes ago, Synpai said:

Make sure to note that HOUSE plays into this.

1. Guns tend to be pretty standard: A [House] MK3 Pulsor = [Same House] MK3 Pulsor period end of story; HOWEVER, A [Zetki] MK3 Pulsor will differ from a [Lavan] MK3 Pulsor

2. Shields, Reactors, Engines are a toss up: A [House] MK3 Engine ?? [ANYHouse] MK3 Engine; It's a toss up even among the same house, there seem to be some slight trends, but the only thing consistent enough is that they house different abilities.

3. Avionics: Here comes the OOF; I've seen no consistency that shows that one is better than the other: A [Zetki] Hull Weave surpasses all others in base stats and its 7 ranks; however a [Vidar] Phastic Weave starts at 4.5% increase, but ranks up 7 times while the [Zetki] version starts at 5% and can only be ranked up 4

:^)

...Did you even LOOK at the screenshots? These comparisons are between the SAME house, and the SAME mark!

Picture 1: Zetki MK2 Engines vs Zetki MK2 Engines, one clearly has inferior stats.

Picture 2: Lavan MK1 Reactor vs Lavan MK1 Reactor, one clearly gives 5 more in avionics capacity.

Picture 3: Zetki MK2 Reactor vs Zetki MK2 Reactor, one is only giving +5 while the other is giving a whopping +25.

Link 4: A complaint from someone whose friend got the same drop (Zekti MK2 Reactor), but a different RNG roll.

So no, your "They're different because they're from different houses" arguments are rendered invalid.

[taiiat]

6 hours ago, RS219 said:

Hey. You. Take back your words, right this instant. Reports are coming out confirming that players are only getting half of their resources back when scrapping their repaired equipment, both with using a rush drone and without using one.

I can also attest to this, as it's also happened to me.

Defending DE's bad practices with incorrect information at best, lies at worst, isn't doing anyone favours.

so you didn't read what i said. we're supposed to get a full Refund, that we aren't is something that should be fixed, since we were told we would.

[RS219]

43 minutes ago, taiiat said:

so you didn't read what i said. we're supposed to get a full Refund, that we aren't is something that should be fixed, since we were told we would.

I've seen mentions of Rebecca's twitter assuages and I'm not buying it this time. DE's very keen on randomizing RNG stats now, and wants to introduce harder and harder grinds as a way of keeping veterans in (spoilers: forcing it isn't going to work).

For all I know they'll probably "hit a balance" where scrapping gear refunds 75% of resources instead of 50% or the promised 100%, and introduce trading for railjack parts to "alleviate disappointment" from the horrid RNG then call it a day. Look at their sloppy fix for Kuva Lich RNG rolls and tell me if that's something to feel optimistic over.

[Synpai]

On 2019-12-15 at 5:29 AM, RS219 said:

...Did you even LOOK at the screenshots? These comparisons are between the SAME house, and the SAME mark!

Picture 1: Zetki MK2 Engines vs Zetki MK2 Engines, one clearly has inferior stats.

Picture 2: Lavan MK1 Reactor vs Lavan MK1 Reactor, one clearly gives 5 more in avionics capacity.

Picture 3: Zetki MK2 Reactor vs Zetki MK2 Reactor, one is only giving +5 while the other is giving a whopping +25.

Link 4: A complaint from someone whose friend got the same drop (Zekti MK2 Reactor), but a different RNG roll.

So no, your "They're different because they're from different houses" arguments are rendered invalid.

I did...yes...I wasn't disagreeing with your post....or arguing against it. I believe there's a bit of miscommunication.

I was adding information because you're mentioning the RNG on PARTS, but there's also variety on the AVIONICS because of the difference in houses (and it doesn't appear consistent either).

Equally RNG between same houses applies for all parts WITH THE EXCEPTION OF WEAPONS. In other words a Zetki MK3 cryo only has one roll, so that people aren't out there thinking they have to get a good roll for a weapon yanno?

 

Literally just trying to help you clear up places someone might be mislead, I wasn't disagreeing at all. I wasn't arguing for anything, just providing the information.

 

[Desolator_X]

That is not an excuse for the mess of every other part and mod that comes with railjack. They really need to fix 1) everyone getting 100% res back, giving people who salvaged stuff until now a refund of the missing 50%, and remove the 12h repair time or 2) remove the stat RNG and make things work the same as in the rest of warframe

[RS219]

2 hours ago, Synpai said:

I did...yes...I wasn't disagreeing with your post....or arguing against it. I believe there's a bit of miscommunication.

I was adding information because you're mentioning the RNG on PARTS, but there's also variety on the AVIONICS because of the difference in houses (and it doesn't appear consistent either).

Equally RNG between same houses applies for all parts WITH THE EXCEPTION OF WEAPONS. In other words a Zetki MK3 cryo only has one roll, so that people aren't out there thinking they have to get a good roll for a weapon yanno?

 

Literally just trying to help you clear up places someone might be mislead, I wasn't disagreeing at all. I wasn't arguing for anything, just providing the information.

 

Okay, so you weren't disagreeing or arguing, but it still seemed to me you didn't look at the screenshots presented therein.

1) You said that "HOUSE plays into this", and that, " A [Zetki] MK3 Pulsor will differ from a [Lavan] MK3 Pulsor ". The screenshots were showing how stats between equipment of the same mark and the same house were wildly different. On a side note, I've heard from other players who complained that turrets of equal house and mark received different stat bonuses as well, which only became apparent once they were repaired, but don't quote me on that. I've had enough of wasting plat on rush drones to find that out as of this moment.

2) You described reactors/engines/shields as "a toss up", when their very own descriptors state how each house clearly focuses on certain stats at the expense of others (or were just solid all-rounders).

3) Ironically, avionics, the one trait you found to be inconsistent is the only thing that lacks RNG and has equal stats among its variants. The reason why each house's variants have different mod capacity ties down to their lore and what they chose to specialize it. Such as Zetki avionics generally being super strong but coming with a high capacity price in exchange, while Lavan has the best version of Conic Nozzle and generally feature cheaper capacity costs because they were the specialists in engines and mass-produced reliability or somesuch. It's all in the lore in the patch notes. It's just a matter of using your calculator and seeing which house (Lavan, Vidar, Zetki) gives the best version of the same mod for your capacity budget.

 

[Synpai]

54 minutes ago, RS219 said:

Okay, so you weren't disagreeing or arguing, but it still seemed to me you didn't look at the screenshots presented therein.

1) You said that "HOUSE plays into this", and that, " A [Zetki] MK3 Pulsor will differ from a [Lavan] MK3 Pulsor ". The screenshots were showing how stats between equipment of the same mark and the same house were wildly different. On a side note, I've heard from other players who complained that turrets of equal house and mark received different stat bonuses as well, which only became apparent once they were repaired, but don't quote me on that. I've had enough of wasting plat on rush drones to find that out as of this moment.

2) You described reactors/engines/shields as "a toss up", when their very own descriptors state how each house clearly focuses on certain stats at the expense of others (or were just solid all-rounders).

3) Ironically, avionics, the one trait you found to be inconsistent is the only thing that lacks RNG and has equal stats among its variants. The reason why each house's variants have different mod capacity ties down to their lore and what they chose to specialize it. Such as Zetki avionics generally being super strong but coming with a high capacity price in exchange, while Lavan has the best version of Conic Nozzle and generally feature cheaper capacity costs because they were the specialists in engines and mass-produced reliability or somesuch. It's all in the lore in the patch notes. It's just a matter of using your calculator and seeing which house (Lavan, Vidar, Zetki) gives the best version of the same mod for your capacity budget.

 

1) Let's hope that's not the case on weapons cause that'd be one heck oof of a bug

2) To clarify: It's a toss up meaning unlike weapons it's full on RNG even between the same house such that there are instances where an MK2 can beat a low rolled MK3 (this is agreeing with your point) however, I wanted to add the information that there did seem to be some correlation to the madness like a Zetki MK3 doesn't appear to get close to the 95 avionic capacity I've seen with Vidar, but again who knows if that's just bad luck.

3) At least for me it would take seeing them to know. By description I would normally assume Zetki is what I want, but I wouldn't know for sure which Winged Steel is actually more efficient/better between Vidar and Zetki without comparing I believe. If Vidar just uses more Dirac but reaches a higher value for the same/lower cost to Zetki for some avionics how do you segregate which?

The point of adding in avionics was to note: "Players are going to have to grind for a particular house version of an avionic which is arguably as painful as farming for reactor roll.

If it's intentional having the actual avionics each house specializes in would be the way to go. Hover over Predator Avionic and it lets you know that Zetki specializes in it, so that would be the better option to go after or what have you.

 

 

[White_Matter]

I ain't hatin on random stats honestly.

Despite the fact that I found a much better variant of an engine right afte I crafted one. 

I think random stats keep things dynamic and more "sustainable."

 

[(PSN)Hiero_Glyph]

27 minutes ago, White_Matter said:

I ain't hatin on random stats honestly.

Despite the fact that I found a much better variant of an engine right afte I crafted one. 

I think random stats keep things dynamic and more "sustainable."

 

You mean artificial longevity. I understand wanting to make less content seem like more content by giving it inferior things to collect while you really want the best thing, but let's not argue that RNG on items has ever been good for Warframe.

Rivens are terrible since instead of balancing the weapons, DE just changes the disposition based on popularity. And the riven market is something so nefarious that I don't want to talk about it on the forums.

Kuva weapons have no way to affect the element percentage, only the element, and you still have a 1-in-13 chance at the weapon you want to get with the only limit being non-sequential duplicates. So if the last weapon was the one you wanted then you need to run 2 liches to have a chance to get it again. Again, a terribly designed system with no way to even reset liches for new/underpowered players. At least you can override weaker weapons with better stats, if you can ever get what you want.

And now we have railjack mods. You understand how things will go from here, right? DE doesn't know how to manage grind against drop rates, especially when they need to keep things balanced. And yet warframe and weapon mods are one of the best concepts in gaming since you can upgrade exactly what you want and everyone has the same maximum value. So instead of building on the system that is universally liked, DE is expanding on the one that has caused problems.

Edited December 16, 2019 by (PS4)Hiero_Glyph

[Synpai]

16 minutes ago, White_Matter said:

I ain't hatin on random stats honestly.

Despite the fact that I found a much better variant of an engine right afte I crafted one. 

I think random stats keep things dynamic and more "sustainable."

 

But why overpopulate the salvage, they could just make an engine for each part and make us use Dirac to "reroll" if they REALLY wanted to or even provided a gear item similar to diablo gems that needed Dirac.

If you want to do RNG in this manner you make it BLATANT similar to how rivens have their prefixes.

But they could've just went the route of progression as well: Build an MK1 reactor> Use Dirac to Max the stats> Sacrifice for an MK2>MK2 Unlocks random bonus stat slot where the bonus can be rerolled.

 

It's really all about the feel. It's VERY blatant what is done for sustainability and I think that's the problem. I think the hardest hit is that some players might invest in things that are notably worse than what they could have access to.

 

Like there's a way to make them progression, sustainable AND not too bad for the player. As it stands now, someone could theoretically get a better reactor their first try than someone spending days grinding veiled missions because RNG.

[ToniHD]

So I've seen this excuse of "But the items give you Dirac when you scrap them."...

You get 25, 50 and 75 for them as the MK tier increases. 

This amount is next to nothing and completely and utterly useless due to the fact that Veil missions always reward me with at least 2k per run and the max I have gotten has been 4k dirac. 

I've gotten so much Dirac that I now have my whole grid maxed out and a bunch of the mods at rank 7 which also requires a few k Dirac. 

Meanwhile the best Mk3 reactor I have gotten has only +25 avionics and I have gotten 10+ by now. Meanwhile the Dojo reactor costs next to nothing and gives me +30 at only mk2 so I can assume mk3 gives me +50. 

Now people might say "Well Zekti is focused on flux." Flux is real great when you can't slot in any avionics that use it due to not having enough capacity available after slotting in essential mods like increased hull, increased armor, increased dmg and so on. 

RNG stats should only be applied to the secondary attributes and not the main ones.  

[Takkong]

On 2019-12-13 at 9:46 PM, RS219 said:

https://old.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/ea6s6w/railjack_parts_all_come_with_rng_stats_ew_de_ew/

https://old.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/eadnt8/so_this_is_how_we_are_gonna_be_moving_foward_then/

https://old.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/eaksnq/dear_de_rng_rolls_on_equipment_is_already_bad

This utter garbage system was already cancerous enough as it is for kuva weapons especially when the system f$%^s you over if you get a lich with an inferior kuva weapon roll. Oh yeah, let's see useful valence transfer is for that newest 25% into a 50%, eh?

It's been said before but I'll say it again, this sort of RNG stat rolling is utter garbage and clogged up toilet levels of unacceptable in a game where loot doesn't drop like water and isn't usable right as it's picked up, as opposed to games like Borderlands and Path of Exile where they drop by the dozen.

This isn't justifiable, DE. PLEASE cut this out. Rivens weren't supposed to be a template and instruction manual for future weapon and equipment stat determination!

No more RNG stats.

It's not like there is PVP for this. There is no reason to grind for better version unless you want to. It's not like you have to have the best version to play the game.

[RS219]

32 minutes ago, Takkong said:

It's not like there is PVP for this. There is no reason to grind for better version unless you want to. It's not like you have to have the best version to play the game.

And if you've seen the previous posts I've made you'll probably see the message I've stressed that until now, Warframe's always been a game where stats are equalized. Your mods are my mods, your weapons are my weapons, your warframes are my warframes. And have you even looked at how horribly huge the stat differences are? The very same reactor being able to give between +5 to +25 mod capacity? How do you justify that? The very same tier of equipment, where both require the same exact amounts of thousands in resources to make that easily takes up to a week to gather for slower players, where scrapping only gives back 50% of what you invested?

I got tired of loot-heavy games like Path of Exile where RNG stat equipment were thrown at you on a minute basis and where "meta" builds required very specific loot items that easily required very specific RNG stat ranges. And now I'm seeing that level of erratic unreliability come to a game where equipment must be heavily invested in (time sink AND resource sink) before it can be used properly.

Your apathetic response is the same sort of mentality that lets DE gets away with increasingly worse mechanics like this. Enjoy the future with RNG'd weapon blueprints and RNG'd warframe stats. I probably won't be around by that point.

Edited December 17, 2019 by RS219

[RS219]

12 hours ago, White_Matter said:

I ain't hatin on random stats honestly.

Despite the fact that I found a much better variant of an engine right afte I crafted one. 

I think random stats keep things dynamic and more "sustainable."

 

"sustainable"

Ahem.

On 2019-12-14 at 2:09 PM, RS219 said:

On 2019-12-14 at 2:07 PM, Test-995 said:

At this point it's fine and right way to go, S U S T A I N A B I L I T Y is a thing. 

S U S T A I N A B I L I T Y of having to kill hundreds of enemies over hoping to get the same item to drop? This isn't a positive incentive, it's a negative incentive that relies on frustration to get players to play longer just to get that "perfect" roll.

What next for this S U S T A I N A B I L I T Y? DE's going to open up plat trading for this stuff? Hell-o scrap parts mafia.

 

Edited December 17, 2019 by RS219

[Xymos]

Just gonna leave this

Good old days...