MORE stat RNG, DE? Really?

[DrakeWurrum]

To be fair, these drop a LOT and don't take hours of murmur farming to grab.

Which is the direction they need to go. Loot stat variety is a form of extending content that works very well in games like Diablo and Path of Exile and Borderlands... It encourages you to keep farming loot, and sometimes even if the same thing you already have drops, it might be better. Which actually is a good feeling.

So I think DE wants to see if they can implement something like it themselves.

50 minutes ago, grindbert said:

so after investing a #*!%ton of resources

It only feels like a lot of resources because we only just started. Give it a month. You won't have enough places to spend those resources.

Also, you're wrong. When you mouse over the gear, push tab. It moves to the stat window, even when it's not repaired.

Edited December 14, 2019 by DrakeWurrum

[Viges]

Stat rng? Have you seen amount of resources you need to "repair" any sh@t you looted? And then just near do it for plat? 

Yea that finger in the capsule, more like a middle one to the players with the last two big updates.

[Urulai]

2 hours ago, RS219 said:

 

 

Enjoy the moment when DE rolls out RNG-statted Warframes and Sentinels and companions that you can only get after days of grinding, and the eventual formation of obnoxious elite meta parties who'll only accept gear with minimum RNG rolls (just look at elitist Eidolon LFGs for an example of how bad it can get). This is the future the three of you support, directly or indirectly.

And no, the concept of linear progression has been thrown at DE multiple times where it came to Kuva weapons and they only made Valence Transfer and called it a day. It's clear they do not care for that, especially since it will hurt precious plat purchases motivated by lich trading.

Never assume to read my mind kiddo.  NEVER.  Unless I explicitly state something you can never know my believes, opinions or motivations.  I specifically ONLY support the random stated drops on BONUS gear dropping for Railjack stuff.  Clan tech should always remain a thing.  Random stated weapons and gear should be a BONUS and not the main option.  Furthermore, there is already randomization in the form of your chances to acquire rare mods.  Even in trading chat you are never guaranteed to find what you want.  So screetching at me and others and call us supporters of your nightmare scenario is incredibly disingenuous.

[ValinorAtani]

vor 15 Minuten schrieb DrakeWurrum:

Which is the direction they need to go. Loot stat variety is a form of extending content that works very well in games like Diablo and Path of Exile and Borderlands... It encourages you to keep farming loot, and sometimes even if the same thing you already have drops, it might be better. Which actually is a good feeling.

For this argument to count in they should atleast raise the droprates dramatically. Not like this we have right now in Warframe.

[DrakeWurrum]

10 minutes ago, Viges said:

Stat rng? Have you seen amount of resources you need to "repair" any sh@t you looted? And then just near do it for plat? 

You don't have to repair it to see the stats. When you mouse over the "broken" version, push tab.

4 minutes ago, ValinorAtani said:

For this argument to count in they should atleast raise the droprates dramatically. Not like this we have right now in Warframe.

I haven't played it for a full 24 hours yet. I have weapons I don't need, and currently plan to scrap. The drop rate isn't bad.

It's not like Borderlands where loot literally rains on you, but I think that loot would get stupidly pointless before long if they raised it so high.

Edited December 14, 2019 by DrakeWurrum

[LSG501]

Ah... so it really does seem that 'end game' content is basically 'replayable' grind and rng.....

[ValinorAtani]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb DrakeWurrum:

You don't have to repair it to see the stats. When you mouse over the "broken" version, push tab.

I haven't played it for a full 24 hours yet. I have weapons I don't need, and currently plan to scrap. The drop rate isn't bad.

It's not like Borderlands where loot literally rains on you, but I think that loot would get stupidly pointless before long if they raised it so high.

That will be the problem if it wont rain why  should people play it the after the first week of the „whoah new update hype“?

DE doesnt want to or isnt capable of recognizing why the should throw loot at us like a borderlands to create replayable and long driven content. The Money in form of cosmetics, slots will still come from alone if the Players have fun with Game. Right now they should be really careful to not sarifice their former reputation for the quick dollar.

[DrakeWurrum]

1 minute ago, ValinorAtani said:

why  should people play it the after the first week of the „whoah new update hype

Why should people play it after the first week if that's all it takes to get all the best loot?

[grindbert]

47 minutes ago, DrakeWurrum said:

You don't have to repair it to see the stats. When you mouse over the "broken" version, push tab.

those are base stats. those are modified after repairing. you don't get to see the actual stats without repairing. i have several "identical" mk3 weapons with different stats that are different from what you see in the tab menu. the tab stats are just the minimum.

[(PSN)Jack_Mahler]

58 minutes ago, ValinorAtani said:

For this argument to count in they should atleast raise the droprates dramatically. Not like this we have right now in Warframe.

This

[RS219]

2 hours ago, DrakeWurrum said:

Which is the direction they need to go. Loot stat variety is a form of extending content that works very well in games like Diablo and Path of Exile and Borderlands... It encourages you to keep farming loot, and sometimes even if the same thing you already have drops, it might be better. Which actually is a good feeling.

Hey. Hey.

You're comparing this game to Diablo, Path of Exile and Borderlands? Did you not see the major difference I listed between Warframe and those loot games?

First of all, are enemies in Warframe dropping 20+ ready-made pistols and rifles and swords the moment you press 4 with a Saryn?

Are these guns then vaccumed to your inventory? Can you then choose to swap your current weapon with them mid-mission? No?

Warframe is a game where you don't get thousands of guns, you get thousands in resources to craft ONE gun, whose blueprint you have to either 1) buy from the marketplace, 2) buy from the dojo after 3 days of waiting, 3) kill an enemy over and over and over again until it drops, and then 4) you need the resources to make it (doubly so if it's something as annoying as argon or valuable as forma), then 5) you need to wait another 12~24 hours before it's finished and then you can finally claim it from your foundry.

Are you seriously suggesting Warframe is just as identical as those above games that drown you in equipment and where "resources" are usually treated just as little more than quest items?

Pray tell, how is being sucker-punched with RNG rolls coupled WITH infrequent drops and intensive resource costs "a good feeling"? Because it sounds like you're straying into "surprise mechanics" territory with that line of thinking.

Edited December 14, 2019 by RS219

[RS219]

3 hours ago, Urulai said:

Never assume to read my mind kiddo.  NEVER.

Aha, whoever said I need to read your mind when I can just point at what's coming out of your words? Here, let me quote you a few years in advance so you won't have to type it out when RNG Warframes come out:

6 hours ago, Urulai said:

Its for FOUND PARTS, the marketplace has standard stats.  I like this system, it keeps us all from having the EXACT same warframes. 

Enjoy calling it a bonus while you still can. This is literally the same mindset promoting gambling lootboxes as "Surprise mechanics". But why worry? After all, there's no way that burning curtain will lead to a fire that will burn the house down! Why worry with all that "Better safe than sorry" nonsense?

Edited December 14, 2019 by RS219

[RS219]

3 hours ago, Vyra said:

When you go out, and you tell people to show you their smartphone, you will find different phones...
same goes for Railjack enemies...why is this a problem? DIfferent crews have different equipments configurations...

where is the fun when you find you +99 maximized gear right in the first 2 maps?
 

The smartphone analogy you tried to express is a very poor one. The differences between phones is due to their manufacturer, model number and innate statistics. An iphone 6 will be built exactly the same as all other iphone 6s, a Sony Xperia Z will be built the same as all other Sony Xperia Zs. The point is that they are all built the exact same way, to function the same exact way.

To fit the phone analogy with Railjack RNG nonsense into a better perspective, imagine two brand-new iphone 6s fresh off the factory line, but one of them has +6% processor speed while the other has +4% battery life instead. And imagine a bidding war iphone 6 that somehow has the highest % rolls being bidded for in the millions.

Do you know what smartphone manufacturers would call this level of variance in their products? Defects.

Edited December 14, 2019 by RS219

[Vyra]

6 minutes ago, RS219 said:

The smartphone analogy you tried to express is a very poor one. The differences between phones is due to their manufacturer, model number and innate statistics. An iphone 6 will be built exactly the same as all other iphone 6s, a Sony Xperia Z will be built the same as all other Sony Xperia Zs. The point is that they are all built the exact same way, to function the same exact way.

To fit the phone analogy with Railjack RNG nonsense into a better perspective, imagine two brand-new iphone 6s fresh off the factory line, but one of them has +6% processor speed while the other has +4% battery life instead. And imagine a bidding war iphone 6 that somehow has the highest % rolls being bidded for in the millions.

Do you know what smartphone manufacturers would call this level of variance in their products? Defects.

Not sure about Iphoen sinc ei dotn have one...But huawei and Samsung got those S10 S10+ S10Lite whatever...
So if you're going to loot in reallife, you might have some S10+ and some S10 normal ones... you can not tell before you actually loot them...

Difference is when you buy... but i don't think there is RNG in Market guns..

[RS219]

Just now, Vyra said:

Not sure about Iphoen sinc ei dotn have one...But huawei and Samsung got those S10 S10+ S10Lite whatever...
So if you're going to loot in reallife, you might have some S10+ and some S10 normal ones... you can not tell before you actually loot them...

Difference is when you buy... but i don't think there is RNG in Market guns..

The S10+ will have the same specifications and stats as other S10+s. The S10lites have the same specifications and stats as all other S10lites. In their model line, they are all the same and equal.

Comparing phones by their brands instead of their factory lines is the same as attempting to pass off a wooly mammoth as an elephant. The base similarities are there, yes, but it's not going to work.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

4 hours ago, Zalabim said:

That sounds like a personal problem. 

Personally, I do not like random stats on random drops, but on a scale from diablo to path of exile, this seems somewhat south of Diablo 1. Reactors give energy. Better reactors give more energy. Only how much more varies a little. Plus, the Dirac from duplicates is more rewarding than gold, and way more reliable than POE's currency/crafting hybrid. I also understand the use and even the appeal of random values. It keeps players paying attention to the drops for longer, and not treating them all as cumbersome endo orbs. So I don't like random stats on dropped loot, but I can live with *this*.

Sounds like you’re not exactly sure why you’re defending this.

[Vyra]

1 hour ago, RS219 said:

The S10+ will have the same specifications and stats as other S10+s. The S10lites have the same specifications and stats as all other S10lites. In their model line, they are all the same and equal.

Comparing phones by their brands instead of their factory lines is the same as attempting to pass off a wooly mammoth as an elephant. The base similarities are there, yes, but it's not going to work.

No the s10 is less powerful than the s10+



And this is exactly what we have with the Railjack Guns...
There are differences...

SO basically, you get your default gun on your Railjack which is the S10 Lite, now find yourself an S10 or even S10 Plus...

While you can do anything you need to with the S10 Lite, you can of course get yourself the S10 Plus.. if you're lucky enough.. if not.. bear with the S10 in the mean time...

 

Edited December 14, 2019 by Vyra

[Ham_Grenabe]

We've been okay with major randomness on Kuva Lich Weapons, and we're going to be okay with random variation on ostensibly identical components of the railjack. And soon, we'll be okay with random variations of whatever else they want to include, from whether Serration provides 165% damage or just 147%, or if your Some Prime has a 200-round magazine when it finishes building or just a 132-round mag. 

We will be okay with it because DE decided it's now This Way, and they know we (including me, I'm just as much of a Skinnerboxite as the rest) can't stop even if we aren't okay with it.

[Zalabim]

22 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Sounds like you’re not exactly sure why you’re defending this.

I just know how to speak for myself and can imagine the possibility of other preferences than my own. 

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

7 minutes ago, Zalabim said:

I just know how to speak for myself and can imagine the possibility of other preferences than my own. 

And why would anybody want RNG to affect the stats of their mods?

[RS219]

39 minutes ago, Vyra said:

No the s10 is less powerful than the s10+

And this is exactly what we have with the Railjack Guns...
There are differences...

SO basically, you get your default gun on your Railjack which is the S10 Lite, now find yourself an S10 or even S10 Plus...

While you can do anything you need to with the S10 Lite, you can of course get yourself the S10 Plus.. if you're lucky enough.. if not.. bear with the S10 in the mean time...

 

You don't get it, do you...

Look at you, you're literally saying that a mammoth, an Asian elephant and an African elephant are all the same and 100% identical. And you don't understand that I'm pointing out that Asian elephants are identical to Asian elephants, African elephants are identical to African elephants and mammoths are identical to fellow mammoths, but that they are all wildly DIFFERENT when you compare one subspecies to the other. And you're here scratching your head and insisting that mammoths are the same as Asian and African elephants.

By talking about phones, I'm saying that when they roll out of a production line, an S10 Lite is identical to an S10 lite in stats, an S10 is identical to an S10, and an S10 Plus is identical to an S10 Plus. Between their same exact variant, they are IDENTICAL. You don't compare an S10 Lite to an S10 Plus or a normal S10 for that matter! Of course they're going to be different, but the S10 Lite will always be identical to all other S10 lites!

[Annnoth]

40 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

And why would anybody want RNG to affect the stats of their mods?

Because that gives you more persistent goals to strive for. The psychological effect it has on people varries.

One person can, as you attested, see it as a completely dissapoint that you didnt get the best and have to keep sifting through drops you wont use to get it. For me, thats my jam. I have something decent and know it can onky get way better so it drives me to keep at it until i get the thing i want one way or another.

Edited December 14, 2019 by Annnoth

[AuroraSonicBoom]

Yeah, pretty much a garbage decision by DE, but hey, you gotta make people buy those newly introduced mod drop chance boosters, amirite?

Endless RNG stat grind is the last thing any game needs, as the chances to get BiS items is practically impossible to achieve in a reasonable time frame. I'll do the same as I always do when some dev decides RNG is content. Ignore it. Get the best items you can from reliable means(meaning research) and screw the rest. This is why lich weapons were such a kick in the teeth. If they didn't have mastery, as was originally planned, I could have just ignored them and done a few at my leisure, you know, for fun?

 

[Cute_Arsonist]

Oof, at least we don't need to pump a lot of resources into the Lich weapons. THIS is just madness.

Keep the RNG and get rid of having to repair/build them or get rid of the RNG and keep the building/repairing.  

[(PSN)Hiero_Glyph]

12 hours ago, trst said:

I don't see the problem with this implementation of the system.

It causes problems with Liches because weapons with lower rolls than what you already have offer no use beyond trading. But here we can scrap low rolls for Dirac and should you find a better roll you can scrap already built ones for their crafting cost.

But we wouldn't need this kind of system anyways if so many people didn't care so much about rewards. The incentive to possibly get another, better, drop is to incentivize those kinds of players to keep playing.

But how do you know it is a low roll before repairing it? This RNG system seems incredibly predatory since you can spend plat on repair drones and, as always, DE has not properly explained how salvaging works.

Edited December 14, 2019 by (PS4)Hiero_Glyph