TioMegaManX Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 Banshee, Nyx, Hydroid, etc. And I mean for the overall game, not just low or super high levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TARINunit9 Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 Banshee is plenty fine as she is, she multiplied all teammate damage by a very big amount (at least 5x). Sure she can't take a punch, but glass cannons have survived in this game before Nyx is purely a victim of power creep. She has never been nerfed, but she used to be god tier. She has one job: stop enemies from shooting her. And it's a job she does well. It's just not a useful job anymore Hydroid has always been a bit of a gimmick. I don't feel he's useless; not only can he farm loot, but he can help teammates damage enemies like Banshee or Vauban or Nidus can, using his Undertow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numerikuu Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 You'll have to elaborate a little more if you want a discussion. What exactly is wrong with them in your opinion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
844448 Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 How do we fix? Get good. I'm doing sortie with Nyx just fine, going to test banshee and hydroid 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)robotwars7 Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 - Banshee is pretty good overall. her CC may not be considered reliable but her 2 alone makes her an insanely good glass cannon at all levels. - Nyx needs a rework desperately, there's no hiding that. - Hydroid is actually pretty strong: good CC, farm viable and can strip armour with Corroding Barrage. also hard to kill with a good energy source like Zenurik and Curative Undertow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TioMegaManX Posted December 29, 2019 Author Share Posted December 29, 2019 2 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said: Banshee is plenty fine as she is, she multiplied all teammate damage by a very big amount (at least 5x). Sure she can't take a punch, but glass cannons have survived in this game before Nyx is purely a victim of power creep. She has never been nerfed, but she used to be god tier. She has one job: stop enemies from shooting her. And it's a job she does well. It's just not a useful job anymore Hydroid has always been a bit of a gimmick. I don't feel he's useless; not only can he farm loot, but he can help teammates damage enemies like Banshee or Vauban or Nidus can, using his Undertow Banshee is less than a glass cannon, it is her gear what would turn her into a glass cannon since her 2 what amplifies damage but the other three abilities barely work, have you read the description in her 1? I think it can't really kill anything past Lv10. Mind control is heavily crippled by the game's AI but even then it seems like it makes the puppet even dumber, bolts is quite the contrast to the rest of her kit and very limited (100% armor strip is a bit nice but Abating Link does that better), Chaos is OK except it would be better if enemies also saw the Tenno as allies because you can't even sneeze in their direction before they stop attacking each other and begin attacking the Tenno again, also, if they get too close to an objective they will still attack it, Absorb seems to do even less damage than before when it wasn't affected by the type of damage it absorbed for some reason. The problem with Hydroid is, for looters Khora and Nekros do the job better, the rest of his playstyle seems on par with old Vauban with even less CC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TioMegaManX Posted December 29, 2019 Author Share Posted December 29, 2019 1 minute ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said: - Banshee is pretty good overall. her CC may not be considered reliable but her 2 alone makes her an insanely good glass cannon at all levels So is OK to have 3 horrible abilities if only one is good? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TioMegaManX Posted December 29, 2019 Author Share Posted December 29, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, 844448 said: How do we fix? Get good. I'm doing sortie with Nyx just fine, going to test banshee and hydroid Try Arbitrations too and Elite Onslaught just o be sure. Edited December 29, 2019 by VanFanel1980mx 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)robotwars7 Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 9 minutes ago, VanFanel1980mx said: So is OK to have 3 horrible abilities if only one is good? I wouldn't say her other abilities are horrible. her 1 maybe, but Silence isn't too bad, and Sound Quake can still lock a room down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TioMegaManX Posted December 29, 2019 Author Share Posted December 29, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said: I wouldn't say her other abilities are horrible. her 1 maybe, but Silence isn't too bad, and Sound Quake can still lock a room down. 3 barely works, specially on higher level enemies which ignore accuracy debuffs (a problem she shares with Titania and her tributes) after the initial stun, Sound Quake deals almost no damage (interesting considering her alleged "glass cannon" status) even with the augment. Edited December 29, 2019 by VanFanel1980mx 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rawbeard Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 24 minutes ago, VanFanel1980mx said: Sound Quake deals almost no damage that's a modding or squad comp issue. learn the game's mechanics, how damage types work, and why you don't even need to talk about damage unless you negated all armor first Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnossosTNC Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 (edited) Banshee just needs better survivability. You can do that in three ways; tanking, stealth or better CC. Pick one. Other than that, I think she's fine. Hydroid needs higher damage and faster ways to deal them. Also, he needs survivability as well. Again, tanking, stealth or CC. Sigh. They need to throw Nyx's kit out and start over. Make her an actual Psychic frame, and give her better and faster damage and/or utility. On the plus side, she doesn't need any more survivability. Edited December 30, 2019 by KnossosTNC 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TARINunit9 Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 45 minutes ago, VanFanel1980mx said: have you read the description in her 1? I think it can't really kill anything past Lv10. It's not supposed to kill, it's supposed to ragdoll the enemy. I mean, it's more effective than Frost's 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
844448 Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 1 hour ago, VanFanel1980mx said: Try Arbitrations too and Elite Onslaught just o be sure. I did arbitration just fine with Nyx, going to test my skill on elite onslaught (Turns out warframe does need your skill on maneuver, skill casting at the right time and buff/debuff understanding instead of taking all hits to the face) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
844448 Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 33 minutes ago, KnossosTNC said: Sigh. They need to throw Nyx's kit out and start over. Make her an actual Psychic frame, and give her better and faster damage and/or utility. On the plus side, she doesn't need any more survivability Faster damage : Psychic bolts with intensify for 100% defense strip Utility : Chaos + Mind control for 15 seconds of enemies fighting each other + 1 immortal lackey for a while taking aggro off you Too hard/too much button to press to keep up? Absorb + Assimilate She's not a front line fighter, she can be seen as mind mage that controls the battlefield through mind manipulation or aggressive parkour if you want to fight directly (Who says warframe doesn't need skills?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikserdok Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 19 minutes ago, 844448 said: I did arbitration just fine with Nyx, going to test my skill on elite onslaught (Turns out warframe does need your skill on maneuver, skill casting at the right time and buff/debuff understanding instead of taking all hits to the face) *knows, understands game, buffs, debuffs etc* *tries the best* *gets 1 hits from enemy which was immune to skill or because of simple miss to someone else closer to him or still have its target priority/threat* *gets 1shot* (quick thinking mod not helping, 600 energy not enough to prevent this, no time and even chance to make arcane guardian, adaptation etc survive helping things work) at the end: gets 1shot from random imune to abilities enemy becasue there is room full immune to abilities enemies, cant disable all of their protections, just no time for this, cant stay in assimilate...to slow....operator dash...you dont have 100% certainty you will just have (enough) operator energy to run away in specific moment, operator is just operator, its not your frame, frame which rely so much on operator (movement here) is not good fame then, yes, operator is very helping to every frame.....but when you see your frame depends so much on your operator to do anything....then are you for real playing this frame? for same I could just go for umbra excalibur and hide anywhere with my operator using right arcanes to fit this choice of playing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enemystand Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 I agree with you Nyx need a rework, i already did Arbitrations solo survivals orokin, grineer, corpus and infested 1hrs+ with her, and can complete any high level mission with her, but after using revenant, Nyx feel like she is lacking something. lets say you start hitting a heay gunner till she reach 1000% bonus dmg so it can kill other grineers, then if there is a revenant in your team and cast his mind control on your heavy gunner she lost everything and is now a revenant thrall. the 2 is good you only need 130% for full armor strip the 3 provide good cc and has good synergy with the 2 so they kill each other easily, but if the enemy has aoe you can get hurt anyways the 4 is good with the augment you draw aggro and avoid the enemies to hit the defense target or just use it to be immortal, but the moment you get near a energy leech eximus squad your energy will go down from 600 to 0 in 1 or 2 seg, so you need to use a pizza and cast chaos and try to find and beat them and be safe (wisp especter will save your life in this situation), the damage buff after the bubble explode is too short. Then you have revenant cast 1 and cc and draw aggro and make the enemies kill between themselves and you can have more than 1 enemy mind controlled, press 2 you are immortal don't need to use a mod slot for this and you don't need to worry about almost anything they hit you they get stunned I don't know what kind of rework she need exactly, at first i was like "all her skills work fine, she don't need rework", but after looking at the vauban and wukong rework i have faith they can surprise me and do something great with her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikserdok Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 26 minutes ago, 844448 said: Faster damage : Psychic bolts with intensify for 100% defense strip Utility : Chaos + Mind control for 15 seconds of enemies fighting each other + 1 immortal lackey for a while taking aggro off you Too hard/too much button to press to keep up? Absorb + Assimilate She's not a front line fighter, she can be seen as mind mage that controls the battlefield through mind manipulation or aggressive parkour if you want to fight directly (Who says warframe doesn't need skills?) sadly I sacrifaced big chunk of ability range (chaos mainly) to get 100% armor strip on bolts which is very usefull...if ther is not to much enemies atleast...as random targeting of these bolts is just pathetically awful hard to make good use of cc skills...if you cant cc enemies, enemies under cc still can hurt you without problem even by just their misses to other targets/aoe absorb and assimilate...wors possibility to use at all, good only on immobile missions like defense or interception with still big af borderlines thanks to additional energy consumed per 1k dmg "absorbed"...after all I ever prefer using bolts augment for stun, its more viable for me as I keep my mobility so suddenly in need I wont stay far away from running/high mobile mates and if you see something comming...then you can go fast into operator and void mode as fast as you can press absorb with augment....for which you dont need to waste mod slot on your frame like with absord to have it effectively working at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikserdok Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 5 minutes ago, enemystand said: I don't know what kind of rework she need exactly, at first i was like "all her skills work fine, she don't need rework", but after looking at the vauban and wukong rework i have faith they can surprise me and do something great with her. all her skills work fine with old, not even viable to compare curret newer game content she is fine until you wont get pure dps frame and real cc frame in your group she is just one of most outdated frames currently, as her main survivability was via cc room of enemies which on paper is fine..until you get to room where half or most of enemies are under effect of immunity to any frame skills (even dps frames have advantage ehre as most of them have their thing to defense not depending on enemies hitted by skill, they have skill to just place near or just activate on themselves to stay alive) their only "not bad/fine to some level" skill are just bolts if you are not in group full of CP aura and I didnt say this skill as very good or something...because targeting is to awfull RNG as what targets it will affect at all...even her passive is jsut useless literally everywhere as everywhere there are tons tons of bullets..so this "beautifull" 20% of reduced enemies aiming is not changing anything...they will hit every when they dont target you but someone else near you or something but for sure she need full rework to all of their skills, passive, augments along with skills as for now she is just outdated frame, every other newer/reworked lately frame do literally everything much better than nyx even just tank only frame will do everything better, why? because he will stay alive for very very long and this frame with good arsenal will just do all job around where nyx will be unable to do anything becasue her kit wont work all the time and mostly it will rely on enemies which will be immune to this so....so pure tank frame with pure outcomming from his weapons will do much better than nyx with her outcomming with weapons...depending on how many enemies could be affected be her skill to be viable, to be alive :v Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
844448 Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 22 minutes ago, Ikserdok said: *knows, understands game, buffs, debuffs etc* *tries the best* *gets 1 hits from enemy which was immune to skill or because of simple miss to someone else closer to him or still have its target priority/threat* *gets 1shot* (quick thinking mod not helping, 600 energy not enough to prevent this, no time and even chance to make arcane guardian, adaptation etc survive helping things work) at the end: gets 1shot from random imune to abilities enemy becasue there is room full immune to abilities enemies, cant disable all of their protections, just no time for this, cant stay in assimilate...to slow....operator dash...you dont have 100% certainty you will just have (enough) operator energy to run away in specific moment, operator is just operator, its not your frame, frame which rely so much on operator (movement here) is not good fame then, yes, operator is very helping to every frame.....but when you see your frame depends so much on your operator to do anything....then are you for real playing this frame? for same I could just go for umbra excalibur and hide anywhere with my operator using right arcanes to fit this choice of playing. Suddenly bullet jump and aim glide coupled with roll don't exist anymore? I didn't even use void dash back then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
844448 Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 17 minutes ago, Ikserdok said: sadly I sacrifaced big chunk of ability range (chaos mainly) to get 100% armor strip on bolts which is very usefull...if ther is not to much enemies atleast...as random targeting of these bolts is just pathetically awful hard to make good use of cc skills...if you cant cc enemies, enemies under cc still can hurt you without problem even by just their misses to other targets/aoe absorb and assimilate...wors possibility to use at all, good only on immobile missions like defense or interception with still big af borderlines thanks to additional energy consumed per 1k dmg "absorbed"...after all I ever prefer using bolts augment for stun, its more viable for me as I keep my mobility so suddenly in need I wont stay far away from running/high mobile mates and if you see something comming...then you can go fast into operator and void mode as fast as you can press absorb with augment....for which you dont need to waste mod slot on your frame like with absord to have it effectively working at all Random targeting isn't so bad, couple it with chaos for best result She's not inaros, she's an active caster where positioning and using all the skills matter and my Nyx build does it fine with 190% range 130% strength (you don't need more than this for 100% stripping) 175% efficiency (she's a caster, not an inaros) 105% duration add arcane guardian and adaptation if you're not confident with your parkour skill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikserdok Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 1 minute ago, 844448 said: Suddenly bullet jump and aim glide coupled with roll don't exist anymore? I didn't even use void dash back then yeah, I should have wrote also: within bulletjumping...sorry, I tried to not ascribe instantly to such rare but still experience which I was able to experience at all yes, you didne use anything about void dash here..but I though I will add also this for sure as many people with thread like this like to add void dash as solution here, just operator to literally every flaw in many/some frames with noticable and very feeling flawas as operator is final mega solution to everything flawed in frames Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
844448 Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, Ikserdok said: yeah, I should have wrote also: within bulletjumping...sorry, I tried to not ascribe instantly to such rare but still experience which I was able to experience at all yes, you didne use anything about void dash here..but I though I will add also this for sure as many people with thread like this like to add void dash as solution here, just operator to literally every flaw in many/some frames with noticable and very feeling flawas as operator is final mega solution to everything flawed in frames Bullet jump to safe distance, shoot them while they're running to you, hide behind cover for some protection. Has this gone too long where people are too comfortable with inaros and health regeneration from arcane? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikserdok Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 1 minute ago, 844448 said: Random targeting isn't so bad, couple it with chaos for best result She's not inaros, she's an active caster where positioning and using all the skills matter and my Nyx build does it fine with 190% range 130% strength (you don't need more than this for 100% stripping) 175% efficiency (she's a caster, not an inaros) 105% duration add arcane guardian and adaptation if you're not confident with your parkour skill random targeting isn't so bad, yes, its not that bad but still in situations it is awfull, just as how many times I wanted to use it on enemy/few enemis just at me, to strip their armor for daster kill and stunw ith augment...but unfortunatelly for my as RNGsus rarely is on my site...most of bolts if not every very like to fly to every other enemy even far away than to these closest to me which I wanted mainly affect with my bolts yea I have somthing liek that on range (190%) but still I miss and I feel difference when I had around 250% range, with rest stats I dont have problem but yet I needed to sacriface this range to get to this 125%+ strenght from 40% 😐 even...I have 155% strenght because of umbra mods for power and health...yes, I was looking at this and I found especially umbral vitality which is boosted by 2nd ubra mod is adding better efficient health evenw ith pathetic 50 armor than maxed redirection on nyx as for arcane guardian or adaptation..if I dont use hirudo with lifesteal while fighting..these things are useless to me, quick thinking helped me much more times (even with this so annyoing and unecessary stagger in it...) than this arcane and mod as in most cases with high damage...I had no time to get proc on these things to make use of them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikserdok Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, 844448 said: Bullet jump to safe distance, shoot them while they're running to you, hide behind cover for some protection. Has this gone too long where people are too comfortable with inaros and health regeneration from arcane? for my defense I even havnt spent single forma for my inaros, only once lvled for mr xD and yet as here we go I will just describe some of my situations arbi interception so mate died, wanted to go fast to his under attack point as my was clear, jsut many enemis around, many also under chaos before I dropped my assimilate bubble to just bulletjump far away in direction of dead mate point and here in mid air after bulletjump, just was about to start falling down on ground in an milisecond where I jsut got 1shot from bombard far away I cant even say with he was directly targeting me when all was behind me, enemies under chas and these immune to this under arbi drones, just fighting each other and as we all know, every enemy can alway miss and so was bombard targeting me or not...he still was able to hit me even during strategical maneuver showing chaos is not enough at all along with absorb with assimilate which is big handicapp to movement alone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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