The biggest problems of Warframe, and suggestions for them

[Lightel03]

 1.  Kuva Liches

• Nemesis:

- As of curently, Liches can be killed in a couple boring hours of RNG, and because of this small life time, it`s difficult to think that this system was supposed to resemble something like the OG Nemesis system. This was something that was decided and spoken about in some devstreams, how they wanted to tone down the amount of time needed to kill your Lich, and I can see why they did so. Aside from the problems of RNG, Liches are lacking one important thing that would solidify them as an interesting Nemesis: A reason to be kept alive. The only reason anyone interacts with Kuva Liches are because of the things they drop when they die, therefore the Lich is just another enemy, but with extra steps, he`s not someone you constantly interact with and will be a personal part of your gameplay experience. These posts below, aswell as their later comments and debates, contain the best solutions to this problem I`ve seen, I highly suggest taking inspiration from both of them.

 

• RNG, and burnout:

- As of the latest devstream, it was addresed that the insane amount of RNG in the Lich system will be toned down, cheers to that. I don`t have any suggestions to how this will be done, I`m sure DE can`t screw that up. So I`m just gonna put a reminder of all the RNG present in the system here:

RNG in kuva weapon, RNG in kuva weapon damage, RNG in Kuva Lich ephemeras, RNG in Requiem mod farming (requiem relics), RNG in Requiem mod sequence. 

 

2.  Empyrean

• Connection:

A big point Steve wanted to get across from Empyrean was how it would be the connecting tissue of the game, but it`s clear from anyone that has ever played Railjack that it is the must isolated system in Warframe, and this issue`s existence might just be because Empyrean is in it`s first phase, it quite simply isn`t done yet. But nonetheless it is an issue, and it`s reasonable to assume that fixes for that might be in development at this time, so I`m just gonna post some thoughts on how the process should go:

- Having the Railjack wrecks use previous common/rare planet resources, aswell as the new resources would be a no brainer.

- Squad Link seems to be the major connector for Railjack and everything else. But how would it work? What if a player puts down a Link in Mars (doesn`t have space variant), will he get any emergency calls from RJ players? It would seem that only certain planets get the connection treatment, which doesn`t really connect the whole. Once again, this is still in development, and could already have the fixes for this issue, but I have no confirmation on it, so I`m just gonna leave this here for now.

• Gameplay:

- Variety is the single most glaring issue with Railjack. Every mission being extermination + side objectives is really draining on player sanity, especially once the number of targets triple from the initial amount. It would be a great service to the Mode to make 60 fighters and 3 crewships a standard for all missions. Aswell as introducing nodes that are focused on bigger versions of side objectives, without the extermination counter. Those could include endless modes where the crew has to split into RJ crew and onboard crew. Rescue missions with huge grinner space prisons. Anything that isn`t extermination.

- Every time you kill an enemy, he goes on to fly for another 2 seconds, far away from the Railjack, and then explodes, and a couple moments after that, he drops some resources. Can you see how easy it is for a RJ pilot to completely ignore these drops? These resources that players need in 5 digit quantities to build whatever things they want are just left in the field due to inconvinience. It`s great that yall buffed the drop rates, but it doesnt change anything if we aren`t picking up those darn drops. As a gameplay scenario, following previously killed ships until they drop stuff is completely stupid, it kills any momentum the player had in dogfighting. Why not just buff the RJ vacuum? I can excuse the warframe missions having limited companion vacuum, but when in space, these abandoned resources get left from so far away, they become needles in a hay stack at the end of missions. Please make the resource radar detect them from anywhere in the space tile, or make the vacuum infinitely stronger.

 

3.  Warframe

• Difficulty: It`s clear that Warframe, in terms of difficulty, is just a numbers game. To fix this many people seem to request for better AI, so did I, but there`s a much better solution to this, I rather take your glance into this other Post that contains ideas for enemy designs:

As a tl:dr of the post, and it`s comments, he suggests that instead of investing in better AI for units, we make enemies that are focused on a gameplay scenario, making the dumb AI irrelevant. And of course, these wouldn`t replace the normal units we see currently, the fun of many players is to just chill within endless missions, so these would only be replacements to obscure units, like the sniper that hangs onto walls and has a slow firing, telegraphed, armor negating sniper, or they would complement the dumb units, like the shield unit, that protects those dumb units with a huge shield that can be walked through or jumped over, while also having a timer for the shields use and recharge. These would still fit into the chill type players, aswell as giving more interesting enemy behaviour that better AI would give.

 

• New player experience:

- The UI seems to be the biggest issue in this regard, as for teaching mechanics and such, the initial Vor mission, and common sense will do the trick for most other modes. (Except Liches and Railjack, these have no tutorial other than a wall of text, one of them being in game, and the other in dev notes, both don`t do a good enough job, but I rather focus on this other issue first)

This is a rather long video, aswell as "not DE friendly" so here`s a tl:dr

- Information seems to be hidden in every little thing in the UI. For example: in the market, when clicking on a weapon, all you get is the tab "About", which you have to hover over to actually see the stats of the weapon, so why not just show the stats in the first place? There`s plenty of space to do so in the left without obstructing the model to the right. 

- Why are item labels turned off by default? These things contain very important information that players need to see, and yet they are turned off for every new player.

- Why does the resource drop list from planets need to be hidden away? Because of Nightwave? There is plenty of space to spare, just put it above the Nightwave sign, this is critical information for anyone that needs to farm resources, so why do you hide it behind buttons that no one notices or knows what they mean?

- Requiem mods don`t show their names unless you hover over them, even though they look incredibly alike, why not just put their names beside the symbol?

- The search bars in the relics and forge interfaces are gifts from god, so why not extend that into the navigation UI? By typing a mod`s name, you can see all the missions that are able to drop that mod. If you type a resource`s name, you see all the missions that can drop that resource. Type in a certain enemy`s name and see all the missions that have that enemy. 

 

• Sustainable content:

- Content drought, while it`s not at all an issue currently, it eventually will be, one day or another people will be done with PVE content, and DE will have to make more. There have been attempts at sustainable PVE content, like the Raids, those were quite fun (*cough*cough*). But nonetheless, currently there isn`t anything that comes close to earning the title of "Sustainable".

So I propose we look towards somethings that can actually fill this sustainable content void hole, like these Posts:

They`re PvEvP modes, similar to the conclave, but not at all the conclave. It seems very unreasonable to believe that DE would ever touch something that even slightly resembles the idea of "multiplayer versus" ever again, but this seems to be the time to do so, since these are pretty neat ideas, and Warframe has been in need for sustainable content for quite some time.

Just imagine a world without as many content drought complaints. That`s how you know it`s worth it.

[bad4youLT]

eddit , nvm cant delete posts

Edited January 24, 2020 by bad4youLT

[Sitchrea]

Brilliant summary of what the community wants to see addressed.

[VenomousValentine]

Thank you for bringing more attention to my post, and I definitely like the idea of bringing a bunch of ideas together in one thread.

[--Aegis--Dandy]

For Railjack, I actually think the content is generally in the mediocre/decent range. What concerns most players is that this update has been in development for 3 years now, and it was massively hyped up. Its quite obvious that the railjack content systems were changed a number of times between then and now, which is what resulted in the delayed and mediocre release.

After the massive content drought in the second half of 2019, players thought Railjack was going to be our "saving grace" and breathe life back into the game. The expectations were too high for us to receive just another mediocre update like the one we got in December.

[--Aegis--Dandy]

12 minutes ago, Vharu said:

No wonder after 570 posts your rep is only +60...

You can't say Empyrean is a mediocre update - they practically added a new game to an existing game in terms of mechanics - and yeh, that stuff does take years to develop. Content drought in second half of 2019? hrmm, bit of a contradiction there since Old Blood and Empyrean released in the second half of 2019. 

Lets not derail the thread, because there are a load of other treads already about empyrean opinions. But ill say this much - it's an incomplete expansion, they didn't say it was going to be be released with everything, so people should have adjusted their expectations to the recent announcements prior to launch. 

For you and everyone else saying the same complaint "Railjack is not complete, thats not what I expected" - simply stop playing railjack and pretend it hasn't launched yet, and will all let you know when its done. You know it's incomplete, so stop pretending like anyone believes it's the final product. 

In some ways, it may never be complete and will continue to be developed overtime, much like the game as a whole. The product we have received is what we can review for now.

Mid-late 2019 was one of Warframe's worst dry spells in history, even DE admitted that numerous times on their devstreams.

I also want to point out that if you watched the devstreams and tennocons for the past 3 years, you will have seen how much Railjack/empyrean has changed over time. I understand these things take a lot of time to develop, but I do feel like some of that time was wasted in switching systems and gameplay mid-way through.

Just to be clear, the reason why I brought this up in the first place was because I see a lot of people labeling railjack as a "terrible product and critical flaw of Warframe". I feel like some of this sentiment comes from how DE missed their mark and fell very short of expectations. Even with a mediocre/fair update, it just didnt seem good enough to a lot of people based on the hype and the other mistakes DE made throughout 2019 and leading up to Railjack's launch.

Edited January 25, 2020 by --Aegis--Dandy

[--Aegis--Dandy]

Just now, Vharu said:

yeh but its like taking a car without wheels and reviewing how well it drives - just wait a bit longer, wheels are coming. Yeh ofcourse it can always be updated more, but what I mean here within context is that all the features showcased at tennocon are not shipped yet. 

I'd like to see the time stamps on where DE admitted that, since it has not been said in any 2020 streams - therefor all other streams are likely to be before Empyrean released in December and Late november. It's one thing to admit a dry spell before released old blood and empyrean, but im sure that opinion changed afterwards. I watched all the dev streams after those updates released and I don't recall them saying that, and they haven't said it this year. 

Well, its true that Old Blood may have lifted Warframe's dryspell, but it certainly was not the way to do it 🤣

I think that was one of the worst received updates in history from a community perspective. 

[Lightel03]

9 hours ago, Vharu said:

1. Kuva Liches

It was an interesting addition - but I think judging by the recent survey data, they need to just scrap kuva liches completely. What would of been a better approach, is if they created a branch faction of the grineer/infested - with some lore, and new solar map to showcase this kind of fringe alliance. This would also address AI difficulty issues, content issues and give justification to raise the ceiling on warframe power and strength growth. 

I highly disagree on scraping the Liches. If DE doesn`t decide to implement those PvEvP, which is very likely, the Liches might be the only thing that resembles sustainable PvE content (if done correctly of course, which is an understatement)

I would much rather see a rework of the system with inspiration from the respective posts I`ve laid out, instead of just giving up on the idea, and moving on to something else.

10 hours ago, Vharu said:

2. Empyrean

It's not done yet, the squad link feature and other corpus/infested factions have not been released yet - too early to make this judgement call. In saying that, I don't think a squad link feature is enough to claim the feat "connective tissue". What the really need to do is run dedicated servers in many global regions that can allow for larger squads on open worlds. You can shove 100+ players around Baro or Konzu, thats the area they need to focus on in order to connect players. Just take a direct path... connect players by literally connecting them. 

Yes, I know, I wrote that into the next sentence. I was just shining a light onto the missing connection of the current state of Empyrean. Though I don`t think that investing in dedicated servers will solve the connection issue.

When I ask for connection I don`t mean being able to play with a lot of players at the same time, I mean having the game`s systems interact with eachother, in such a way that playing in any of them will help me out in whatever other mode. For example the Squad Link, it will be able to connect two firteams, one in space, and another in the ground, both will be rewarded for helping eachother in their respective missions (or at least that is what was shown of it). We can also achieve this kind of connection with using previously obtainable resources together with the new ones, the more you play on the ground the better you will play in RJ, and the more you play RJ the more Squad Links you will respond to and help ground players, aswell as the better you will complete your initial mission. They complement eachother, they are connected.;

10 hours ago, Vharu said:

Yeh, another thread I wrote - increase the AI difficulty with more solar maps - this will then allow warframes to increase in power and strength to balance and scale up - rather than nerfs even being considered. 

I did not mean to increase difficulty with higher numbers, that`s not real difficulty, I was suggesting the creation of enemies that follow a especific gameplay scenario:

Sniper: rappels/grapples onto a high spot, tries taking shots at the Tenno, these shots are telegraphed, aswell as armor negating, the players need to figure out where she is, dodge her high damage shots, and then kill her.

Shield: lays down a one way shield that protects units aswell as letting them shoot through it, this shield negates all damage fired to it`s front, so the Tenno need to jump over it or walk through it. (the shield also has a timer for use and recharge, making them move in and out of cover with the shield to find a safe place to recharge)

These enemies don`t need extra behaviours or a reaction and response system, nor do they need higher stats. They just needs to fulfill their gameplay tasks and it will offer an interesting situation for the players to deal with.

10 hours ago, Vharu said:

Recruiting chat needs to be removed and replaced with its own LFG UI, and Trading chat needs to be removed and replaced with its own Market Orderbooks, graphs and menu. And yeh, less nesting in parts that don't need it. Definitely needs a more intuitive rework overall.

I actually do agree with the replacement of these. The LFG function was discussed in a thread, while you can say that using filters is enough, it would be a much more pleasent experience having a dedicated UI for recruiting. Your "Market orderbook" actually does seem to be an interesting idea, It would just put the Warframe Market (the site) into Warframe, which would be a very welcome addition.

[(PSN)sdaly96]

On 2020-01-25 at 6:04 AM, Vharu said:

I mentioned this in previous threads - have a Arena/Stadium with PVP race tracks for 'pod-racers' or put the Kdrive to use. This Arena can have Market stalls around it which address the crappy trading chat option. We shouldn't even have a trade chat - either a trade menu or a trading area.  

Recruiting chat needs to be removed and replaced with its own LFG UI, and Trading chat needs to be removed and replaced with its own Market Orderbooks, graphs and menu. And yeh, less nesting in parts that don't need it. Definitely needs a more intuitive rework overall.

Conclave is dead, but PvP could be revived in another form. Look at EVE online - they way to tackle both trading and PVP is a great example of what Railjack could aim for. You source resources from one location that has it's own market, and transport these to another location that has it's own market. This adds a whole new element to the game of logistics and trading. Aside from this, Clan/Alliance factions can rival for control of planets - which yields them resource % from players missions. 

Much like Invasion quest types, but instead of Factions like Corpus Vs Grineer... we need to let clans and alliances get in on this as a stand alone side rather than supporting AI factions. Not sure how to design that, but PVP done right, or PvEvP done right, is something that creates its own content. Again, looking at EVE online - the map is ever changing in terms of control, wars and conflicts arise and settle as a bi-product of this - players create the changing content in real time. 

 

I like the idea of a more central place for actual k drive races but I feel it will just be like lunaro, bit of excitement at launch then fizzle out. Possibly adding a wager system on what tenno wins could add a bit of spice to it but could lead to toxicity via attempts at rigging (unless you don't know who's who, seeing the number not the name).

Transfer of resources from one place to another sounds interesting, but the stuff about clans rivaling over planets has been done, it was working ok ish but was taken out. Some form of that with the EVE-esque stuff you mentioned could work quite well, if DE would be willing to put the time into it. What I personally would like to see is a tenno civil war of sorts, some fighting for lotus, some fighting for someone else (ballas or teshin perhaps)

[BloodRavenCap]

I've already talked about the system so much that when I see other people telling that Liches should be a CONSTANT enemy I want to laugh. They really shouldn't, but their rewards should be evergreen. I've made some suggestions, that Liches should drop something like artifacts, that you give you temporary bonuses to stats, that would also fix the problem game has with the scaling of the enemies. DE wants to nerf armor scaling, but buff the damage output. If they did things I've suggested, it would actually solve the problem with one-shotting - if you have an artifact, it gives you more survivability, but you still need to hunt Liches, because the buff is temporary.

[(PSN)sdaly96]

10 hours ago, Vharu said:

This is the thread I posted about the racing Arena - I also mentioned Wagering, but also a few other points on features and functionality to the stadium. 

Ill also link another thread where I suggested some more ideas for the game...

I like your idea with the civil tenno war - having a more developed and hardlined split between factional support. These could really set the game up for an EVE-like dynamic, and expanding on the 'Space' part of playing a Space game. Warframe is very land-based, where as EVE is very Space-based but lacks Land environment. Would be great to see the game balance more on the Space development content - and EVE has that mastered, Warframe just needs to poach elements of EVE to really grab the market with momentum. 

Similar thing with GW2 and WoW - GW2 came later than WoW, but with a free-to-play system... It replicated so much of WoW but did it better and did it for free. I can see Warframe expanding and doing this to EVE - and the development costs are actually pretty cheap compared to land-based environments - for the most part, space is a background image and empty. Most of EVE is just intelligent design with ENDLESS PROGRESSION (Something i've been begging DE to do). 

Your ideas about endless progression and the things conquest online did may just be what this game needs tbh

[(PSN)sdaly96]

Another suggestion, slightly off topic as it's to do with clan chat moderation. Allow us to delete a person's messages without having to kick them from chat each time

[CR0ME]

If they just removed the "guess the magic word right or die" from the Kuva Lich system I would be already satisfied.

 

 

I really hope they improve Railjack controls further, because I also think RJ can be a big part of the future. 

 

I had it multiple times that crew members were wasting Fluxenergy skills or rockets and stuff and completely ignoring the order to stop this.

Or you hop out of the drivers seat for a moment, into the Dome Gun to snipe because no one is taking care of the crew ships, suddenly someone jumps into the pilot seat...

I grinded for my ship, this was the first time in Warframe I wanted a kick function.  

I have become so irritated about this that I started aborting mission and will play more solo if possible. 

 

[(PSN)sdaly96]

15 hours ago, CR0ME said:

If they just removed the "guess the magic word right or die" from the Kuva Lich system I would be already satisfied.

 

 

I really hope they improve Railjack controls further, because I also think RJ can be a big part of the future. 

 

I had it multiple times that crew members were wasting Fluxenergy skills or rockets and stuff and completely ignoring the order to stop this.

Or you hop out of the drivers seat for a moment, into the Dome Gun to snipe because no one is taking care of the crew ships, suddenly someone jumps into the pilot seat...

I grinded for my ship, this was the first time in Warframe I wanted a kick function.  

I have become so irritated about this that I started aborting mission and will play more solo if possible. 

 

I think the owner of the ship should be able to at least lock/unlock a certain thing so only they can access it, be it pilot, gunner or whatever 

[FoxFX]

@Lightel03 I am surprised you linked my article "The Competitive PVEPV". I considered due to the community's lack of response to be an idea I had to hold back on. Thanks for noticing it.

[VenomousValentine]

I just want functional pvp with a playerbase and decent rewards like credits and endo.

[George_PPS]

On 2020-01-24 at 10:38 PM, --Aegis--Dandy said:

Mid-late 2019 was one of Warframe's worst dry spells in history, even DE admitted that numerous times on their devstreams.

It’s way beyond that. During the period, It’s as if Warframe has gone through a series of unnecessary transplants to remove good parts and installed failed parts causing massive immune responses and rejections.