No more Nova

[kwlingo]

12 minutes ago, (PS4)KyomaSatomi said:

I actually meant recommendations for those "skill required frames"

Any other than tank frames.

[(PSN)KyomaSatomi]

vor 5 Minuten schrieb kwlingo:

Any other than tank frames.

I've also tried Nidus (accidentally stayed longer than expected in a Kuva survival because it was pretty easy to hold my own that I forgot the time), Valkyr (initially got her build wrong so I had to redo that iron kitty) and Wukong (my newest tank and maybe my best bet for the Temple of Profit).

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

10 hours ago, taiiat said:

that's because they aren't even attacking you there. it's easy to tell, by several things:

• half of those Enemies are Blinded or some other CC
• no muzzle flashes or hit impacts on your HUD
• you have full Shields and Null Star only applies to your Health anyways
• no Adaptation icons and we can't tell what the one Arcane icon is from just this shot

so again, those Enemies aren't even attacking you.

Wrong. Check again chief. There's an arcane guardian proc at the top of the screen that's running down. Then the melee counter in the bottom corner that lets you know many shots I have deflected. 75% slow + melee block. I slowed them down, took out my melee weapon and stood there. 

The other CC was my deathcube that I didn't bother to take off, Pretty sure just a radiation proc. 

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

8 hours ago, (PS4)KyomaSatomi said:

I actually meant recommendations for those "skill required frames"

None. No frames require skill to use. Tanks require the least amount of skill as they have the easiest time taking damage. I don't know why people are so focused about "skill" other then to stroke their "epeen". 

Warframe isn't a game about skill. The closest thing to a "Skill required frame" would be a frame with no damage reduction, no other protection and requires precise aim or movement to survive. 

You are having trouble with Nova, one of the easiest frames to use in the entire game. She was a staple in warframe raids with how much easier she made mobs. 

You want skill dude? Go to PvP and show your stuff in conclave or lunaro. 

[taiiat]

12 minutes ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

Wrong. Check again chief. There's an arcane guardian proc at the top of the screen that's running down. Then the melee counter in the bottom corner that lets you know many shots I have deflected. 75% slow + melee block. I slowed them down, took out my melee weapon and stood there. 

The other CC was my deathcube that I didn't bother to take off, Pretty sure just a radiation proc. 

but you were supposed to be depicting survivability with Null Star. since their topic was ability to take advantage of Null Star or not.
Melee Blocking also completely invalidates your 'display', because you displayed nothing.

[Above]

That's a very Heartbreaking story, made me tear up.

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

21 minutes ago, taiiat said:

but you were supposed to be depicting survivability with Null Star. since their topic was ability to take advantage of Null Star or not.
Melee Blocking also completely invalidates your 'display', because you displayed nothing.

Except that 1. Blocking only reduces damage from such an area. 
2. Null star was active as was my protection arcanes. 
3. You can clearly see Im surrounded almost on all sides by enemies at full health. 
4. you can see I'm in no immediate danger. 

I even made a video that showed me standing around while enemies moved back and forth, trying to kill me till I assume the simulcrum glitched entirely and I was flat out not taking damage at all. 

I was unable to even get my nova to die until I took off quick thinking as my energy stayed full. 

The point of the post was to show the OP who has commented repeatedly about how he has a hard time with nova how simple it is to make her tanky. Melee, null star and molecular easily stands up to the highest enemies I can spawn in simulcrum. 

[taiiat]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

Except that 1. Blocking only reduces damage from such an area. 
2. Null star was active as was my protection arcanes. 
3. You can clearly see Im surrounded almost on all sides by enemies at full health. 
4. you can see I'm in no immediate danger. 

The point of the post was to show the OP who has commented repeatedly about how he has a hard time with nova how simple it is to make her tanky. Melee, null star and molecular easily stands up to the highest enemies I can spawn in simulcrum. 

ofcourse you were in no particular danger. unless you ignored the Enemies and turned away from them, you were immune to them since in Simulation there isn't really much for places that they can go that isn't somewhere you're facing.
Blocking makes everything else you're saying you're displaying, irrelevant and completely not displayed in the first place. 

in real scenarios Blocking can't be used as an ultimatum tool that protects you without Equipping a single Mod. you have Objectives to complete, you have to actually attack sometimes, you need to move to places. 
please don't misrepresent everything so egregiously. misrepresenting things doesn't do anyone you're supposedly helping any good.

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

37 minutes ago, taiiat said:

ofcourse you were in no particular danger. unless you ignored the Enemies and turned away from them, you were immune to them since in Simulation there isn't really much for places that they can go that isn't somewhere you're facing.
Blocking makes everything else you're saying you're displaying, irrelevant and completely not displayed in the first place. 

in real scenarios Blocking can't be used as an ultimatum tool that protects you without Equipping a single Mod. you have Objectives to complete, you have to actually attack sometimes, you need to move to places. 
please don't misrepresent everything so egregiously. misrepresenting things doesn't do anyone you're supposedly helping any good.

Except my back wasn't to the wall. I'd show you a 360 view of my warframe if it was practical. I had several enemies outside the blocking range.

Secondly, wrong. as the slowed enemies still have to hit me to proc arcane guardian. The rest contributed to my melee counter as proof I was getting shot. 

In a real scenario, using every tool you have to your advantage will benefit you. The only person who is misrepresenting anything is you, as you first claimed I wasn't getting shot, then claimed I wasn't using Null star (despite me clearly getting shot for guardian to proc, yet my shields are still full.) 

All enemies are at full health besides the ones my sentinel was shooting at, so 1/20 might be radiated currently. 

If you are going to try to deconstruct an image, cause it isn't the perfect screenshot, at least have an accurate view of what's going on. As you missed only a half dozen details and made the same amount of false assumptions. 
 

Edited February 2, 2020 by (PS4)UltraKardas

[taiiat]

1 hour ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

Except my back wasn't to the wall. I'd show you a 360 view of my warframe if it was practical. I had several enemies outside the blocking range.
Secondly, wrong. as the slowed enemies still have to hit me to proc arcane guardian. The rest contributed to my melee counter as proof I was getting shot. 

In a real scenario, using every tool you have to your advantage will benefit you. The only person who is misrepresenting anything is you, as you first claimed I wasn't getting shot, then claimed I wasn't using Null star (despite me clearly getting shot for guardian to proc, yet my shields are still full.) 

and yet, you had not taken a single point of actual Damage, so Enemies that were not within Blocking angle hadn't attacked you.
Blocking is okay, but when Players are actually playing they can't expect it to protect them, it's just a nice bonus if it does. for they need to actually deal Damage in... well, most Gamemodes you do need to Kill things.

yes, though, i guessed at things wrong only because i thought that it wasn't possible that someone would have been Blocking when trying to show the usefulness of Null Star and/or Arcanes / other survivability tools.
i figured nobody would sabotage their own demonstration that way. but i was proven wrong.

 

anyways, something on topic and helpful.

11 hours ago, (PS4)KyomaSatomi said:

I actually meant recommendations for those "skill required frames"

this group is Warframes that don't have DR Abilities or Damage bypassing Abilities they can just put on like a shirt essentially for the entire Mission. they'll usually have other tools like CC of various types whether that be preventing Enemies from attacking, slowing them dramatically, making them miss, or even full incapacitation and so preventing them from attacking (mostly).

or some odd ones that do belong in this category such as Warframes that have Healing Abilities that aren't instant Heals as regenerating Health is not the same as taking less Damage, despite them seeming similar.
for example, Renewal on its own (Oberon) does not increase your real EHP by much of anything, even if you had 300% Power Strength your EHP doesn't really change all that much. you'll be protected against chip Damage most certainly, but a more Spike Damage type Enemy could still easily oneshot you, since the Regen can't respond to Spike Damage.the Armor Bonus he can apply to himself helps mitigate that a bit, though it's just Armor and Armor is mediocre.
as another example, Wisp is in a similar boat - the Health Regen is very so-so, the effect that actually makes Wisp more durable is the Health Bonus. being able to add up to about 1000 extra Health to ones' self is a lot of extra EHP for most Warframes (so uh, all but Inaros or Grendel). that Health Bonus adds quite a bit to your EHP, and the Health Regen lets it be useful for more than about 5-10 seconds.
even Garuda, who currently holds the position for the strongest Healing Ability in the game, since it's still a Regen over time, means that your EHP only increases just so much. since it's a Percent based Heal effect it's massively stronger than other forms of Health Regen so it's affected by this much less than other Abiiltes, but you could still get oneshot or Killed very quickly while standing in Blood Altar.

Edited February 2, 2020 by taiiat

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

5 minutes ago, taiiat said:

and yet, you had not taken a single point of actual Damage, so Enemies that were not within Blocking angle hadn't attacked you.

Except that arcane guardian only procs when you receive damage. No damage means no change of guardian proccing. Yet there it is. 

Simply put, My nova isn't even doing anything but standing there with her nikana equipped. Yet you have some mental dissonance that you can't tell I've been hit from have a dozen indicators. 

 

9 minutes ago, taiiat said:

Blocking is okay, but when Players are actually playing they can't expect it to protect them, it's just a nice bonus if it does. for they need to actually deal Damage in... well, most Gamemodes you do need to Kill things.

And here you go misrepresenting things. If you use your eyes, you can see my nova is in the idle holding weapon stance. As if I can't just hit melee again to start attacking things. 

You are aware I can move, attack, and pursue the objective with any weapon I want equipped yea? I'm not forced to be stationary. My screenshot was using just about every possible method of increasing survival, yet you act like my nova turned into an unmoving object to stop damage. 

You can even switch from that stance to guns simply by aiming, yet if you are taking too much damage? Being mindful to block extra damage is going to help no? 

Do you need somebody to show you that you can play frames like nova with a melee equipped? It's really easy considering how slow most enemies are. 

[(PSN)KyomaSatomi]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb taiiat:

this group is Warframes that don't have DR Abilities or Damage bypassing Abilities they can just put on like a shirt essentially for the entire Mission. they'll usually have other tools like CC of various types whether that be preventing Enemies from attacking, slowing them dramatically, making them miss, or even full incapacitation and so preventing them from attacking (mostly).

or some odd ones that do belong in this category such as Warframes that have Healing Abilities that aren't instant Heals as regenerating Health is not the same as taking less Damage, despite them seeming similar.
for example, Renewal on its own (Oberon) does not increase your real EHP by much of anything, even if you had 300% Power Strength your EHP doesn't really change all that much. you'll be protected against chip Damage most certainly, but a more Spike Damage type Enemy could still easily oneshot you, since the Regen can't respond to Spike Damage.the Armor Bonus he can apply to himself helps mitigate that a bit, though it's just Armor and Armor is mediocre.
as another example, Wisp is in a similar boat - the Health Regen is very so-so, the effect that actually makes Wisp more durable is the Health Bonus. being able to add up to about 1000 extra Health to ones' self is a lot of extra EHP for most Warframes (so uh, all but Inaros or Grendel). that Health Bonus adds quite a bit to your EHP, and the Health Regen lets it be useful for more than about 5-10 seconds.
even Garuda, who currently holds the position for the strongest Healing Ability in the game, since it's still a Regen over time, means that your EHP only increases just so much. since it's a Percent based Heal effect it's massively stronger than other forms of Health Regen so it's affected by this much less than other Abiiltes, but you could still get oneshot or Killed very quickly while standing in Blood Altar.

Out of those, the one I've used the most is Oberon. I recently revisited him to use him for Defection. Clearing the last 2 nodes I haven't done yet and grinding  for Harrow systems..

Might as well put Excal here since he has no DR too, but some CC with his blind/howl.

[taiiat]

3 hours ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

Except that arcane guardian only procs when you receive damage. No damage means no change of guardian proccing. Yet there it is. 

And here you go misrepresenting things. If you use your eyes, you can see my nova is in the idle holding weapon stance. As if I can't just hit melee again to start attacking things. 
You are aware I can move, attack, and pursue the objective with any weapon I want equipped yea?

no, Guardian and Arcanes like it, trigger on taking a hit, it is irrelevant whether or not you actually take Damage. your Health/Shield pool simply needs to be hit by something hostile.
which is how Guardian had then activated even though you're Blocking and had not taken a single point of Damage. which is also how Arcanes of this type will still activate even when you turn on Invulnerability in Simulation........................................

 

okay, i'll spell it out for you. Blocking is a mutually exclusive thing. you can't Kill Enemies and be Blocking. Blocking forces you to pick between Damaging Enemies or not taking Damage.
this is exactly why it's totally okay that Blocking is 100% DR now as even with that, it's still just kinda somewhat okay. because no matter how well protected you are with it, ultimately it is a binary Pacifism type scenario.
Blocking is even so mutually exclusive that Enemies can stunlock us with their attacks, almost entirely preventing us from attacking if we take regular hits while trying to use Melee or had Melee out and are trying to switch back to a Gun to shoot with, Et Cetera.

Edited February 2, 2020 by taiiat

[Methanoid]

On 2020-01-31 at 8:50 PM, (PS4)KyomaSatomi said:

My middleground right now is to keep her range at default and give her as much duration as I can with the mods I currently have. She's still much too squishy for my taste (I'm used to play Rhino tho)

if you can play rhino and not miss something like novas portals why is there an issue having a tanky/molecular prime build nova with low range?

Also a happy medium build thats "ok" in all aspects is still perfectly fine, something similar to this:  https://tennoware.com/warframes/nova/12011330000f305p405p710k505m6100a10w805c005w605c90300000000

The range on the above is only 54m but its still pretty acceptable given MP is not degraded and you still get 16 null stars.

[(PSN)KyomaSatomi]

vor 35 Minuten schrieb Methanoid:

if you can play rhino and not miss something like novas portals why is there an issue having a tanky/molecular prime build nova with low range?

Also a happy medium build thats "ok" in all aspects is still perfectly fine, something similar to this:  https://tennoware.com/warframes/nova/12011330000f305p405p710k505m6100a10w805c005w605c90300000000

The range on the above is only 54m but its still pretty acceptable given MP is not degraded and you still get 16 null stars.

I have to say, that looks pretty good.

I think I'll bookmark that.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

On 2020-01-31 at 3:39 PM, Skaleek said:

You know some people would argue having different options for different builds on a warframe is a good thing. You could always have one loadout, lets call it "A", and another loadout, lets call that one "B", and switch between the two.

I’ll do you one better.

How about OP uses Void Dash, Mods,  Arcanes, and Focus school versatility to counter the shortcomings of both “A” and “B”?

I mean, OP, I get it.  Super-optimized builds are costly, but still.

I’d like my Volt to have 700 base armor and 1.2 base speed, but not gonna happen...frames exist with strengths and weaknesses.

Edited February 2, 2020 by (PS4)Silverback73

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

 

1 hour ago, taiiat said:

okay, i'll spell it out for you. Blocking is a mutually exclusive thing. you can't Kill Enemies and be Blocking. Blocking forces you to pick between Damaging Enemies or not taking Damage.

Except that on console, which both the OP and I currently play on, having your melee weapon even out makes you auto block. I can press circle, and until the update hits where they change that, I auto block everything in front of me till I aim back with my weapons. Also, seeing how most weapons have a combo that goes off blocking, pretty sure you can simply use your brain, and attack when you need to attack, then return to blocking if need be. I have checked the current control scheme several times. Manual block doesn't exist on consoles. 


But a quick question before I bring another point to your attention about why you are wrong. IN the screenshot I used, what melee weapon am I using again? You can probably use a nikana yourself and see I'm not in block stance, but besides that? 

My nikana blocks everything in a 55 degree area in front of me. The corrupter gunners around me have several of them outside my blocking area. 

So once again, for the umpteenth time, you are wrong. And until DE changes the situation on console, Nova with null star, molecular prime and her melee weapon equipped are enough to make her more tanky then what the OP has currently. 
 

1 hour ago, taiiat said:

this is exactly why it's totally okay that Blocking is 100% DR now as even with that, it's still just kinda somewhat okay. because no matter how well protected you are with it, ultimately it is a binary Pacifism type scenario.
Blocking is even so mutually exclusive that Enemies can stunlock us with their attacks, almost entirely preventing us from attacking if we take regular hits while trying to use Melee or had Melee out and are trying to switch back to a Gun to shoot with, Et Cetera.

Not something I have experienced. Maybe cause its only a pc thing as of right now, but I can park my nova against a wall and have her block till the cows come home. I'm neither locked, nor stunned. 

My Nova will even start to perform idle animations of pulling her nikana from a sheath and then re-sheath. All the while my combo counter is maxed out from blocking. Getting stunlocked from blocking sounds awful. 

 

[taiiat]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

Except that on console, which both the OP and I currently play on, having your melee weapon even out makes you auto block. I can press circle, and until the update hits where they change that, I auto block everything in front of me till I aim back with my weapons. Also, seeing how most weapons have a combo that goes off blocking, pretty sure you can simply use your brain, and attack when you need to attack, then return to blocking if need be. I have checked the current control scheme several times. Manual block doesn't exist on consoles. 
 

Not something I have experienced. Maybe cause its only a pc thing as of right now

if you're attacking, you're attacking. you can't start and stop attacking anytime an Enemy shoots at you, that happens more than once a second.
eventually when you're Blocking you have to concede that you need to attack the Enemies at some point, which means not Blocking. even while you're holding Aim/Block, if you're attacking, you're still not Blocking.

 

it's not PC only, it's just only something that Players experience when they're trying to do things fast or play fast.

[(PSN)KyomaSatomi]

vor 30 Minuten schrieb (PS4)Silverback73:

I’ll do you one better.

How about OP uses Void Dash, Mods,  Arcanes, and Focus school versatility to counter the shortcomings of both “A” and “B”?

I mean, OP, I get it.  Super-optimized builds are costly, but still.

I’d like my Volt to have 700 base armor and 1.2 base speed, but not gonna happen...frames exist with strengths and weaknesses.

I have to say that as of now,  I am rather short on both arcanes and focus abilities. I'm currently levelling up both, energizing dash and energy spike from Zenurik, but I'm far from having them on max. As for the arcanes, I haven't done that many Eidolon hunts so far, and only Teralyst at that and I'm often rather short on plat for buying them (because I mostly buy equipment slots or cosmetics instead).

And with Void Dash, I have to admit that I barely use operator mode simply because I haven't really gotten used to do so. So far, I've done the main part of my time with the game without access to transference.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)KyomaSatomi said:

I have to say that as of now,  I am rather short on both arcanes and focus abilities. I'm currently levelling up both, energizing dash and energy spike from Zenurik, but I'm far from having them on max. As for the arcanes, I haven't done that many Eidolon hunts so far, and only Teralyst at that and I'm often rather short on plat for buying them (because I mostly buy equipment slots or cosmetics instead).

And with Void Dash, I have to admit that I barely use operator mode simply because I haven't really gotten used to do so. So far, I've done the main part of my time with the game without access to transference.

Then you have some short-term goals to work into the fabric of your gameplay.

I’m hardly a high-level strategy and numbers guy for meta loadouts like others here that are engaging you with some really good practical knowledge.

The key is to making sure you can go “apples to apples” with what they are showing you in terms of mod library acquisition/progression and gear.

Most here are simply giving you methods to get where you want to go and saying “Hey, don’t abandon Nova for how you want to play her-look at this.”

It’s more about acquisition and preparation and knowing what to do than skill.

Edited February 2, 2020 by (PS4)Silverback73

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

3 minutes ago, taiiat said:

if you're attacking, you're attacking. you can't start and stop attacking anytime an Enemy shoots at you, that happens more than once a second.

And unless those enemies can kill my nova through null star, armor, and quick thinking in that second that my attack animation finishes? I'm good. 

I thought you were a semi reasonable person, but the longer you draw out this farce of an argument the more doubts I have about you. The scenario in question would have the enemies slowed by molecular prime, their damage reduced by some 80%+ and only a half ton other things going for me like say if I have a sentinel that gives any support whatsoever. 

I'm really **SOOOOOOO worried** that those slowed enemies will kill me when I go to attack. Im on warframe currently, do you want me to stream to you to show you how vastly inccorect you are? Cause you literally act like you can't walk and chew bubble gum at the same time. 
 

15 minutes ago, taiiat said:

it's not PC only, it's just only something that Players experience when they're trying to do things fast or play fast.

Stun locking would have to be PC only. Unless you are talking about something else, you can not be stun locked while blocking on console. You block it. 

 

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

It’s more about acquisition and preparation and knowing what to do than skill.

Truer words then this do not exist when it comes to warframe currently. 

[taiiat]

38 minutes ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

And unless those enemies can kill my nova through null star, armor, and quick thinking in that second that my attack animation finishes? I'm good. 
I'm really **SOOOOOOO worried** that those slowed enemies will kill me when I go to attack. Im on warframe currently, do you want me to stream to you to show you how vastly inccorect you are? Cause you literally act like you can't walk and chew bubble gum at the same time. 

Stun locking would have to be PC only. Unless you are talking about something else, you can not be stun locked while blocking on console. You block it. 

which is great, and yes, that's where the survivability comes from, and still the point you're whooshing on is that those features were not displayed because Blocking overrides all of that and is also not representative of what to expect during play.

 

no, it can happen to you on any Platform. it's an intrinsic part of the game.

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

51 minutes ago, taiiat said:

which is great, and yes, that's where the survivability comes from, and still the point you're whooshing on is that those features were not displayed because Blocking overrides all of that and is also not representative of what to expect during play.

 

no, it can happen to you on any Platform. it's an intrinsic part of the game.

No, that's the point you refuse to get, and acknowledge cause you can't admit that you are wrong. 55* angle of degree block, doesn't prevent all the enemies in my screenshot from damaging me. Maybe it has something to do with the group slow, or maybe the damage reduction. I don't even remember if my sentinel had shield charger on it. Shame you got this toxic from a screenshot. 

But instead of agreeing with the point that those level 140 enemies weren't a threat for multiple reasons, you turned it into an argument where I disproved your point multiple times. 

It might not represent you, which it never intended to. But My nova who has successfully gotten me through nightmare raids and beyond that can tackle level 200+ enemies is more then tanky enough. Which was what I said in my screenshot. 

Thanks for derailing the conversation and making yourself thoroughly disliked by me. 

[Leyers_of_facade]

On 2020-01-31 at 3:38 PM, (PS4)KyomaSatomi said:

I think I'll be sidelining Nova. I've been looking to make her work for the way I want to play, but things didn't pan out.

Normally, I like tanky frames, frames that can eat some damage. Nova does have that, but at the expense of another thing I'd like to use her for; the mobility of her wormholes.

If you want the max damage reduction, you have to give up on those portals. And I don't wanna loose either.

An impossible choice.

Therefore: no Nova for me.

 double umbra (intensify and vitality) would give you decent survivability as well as reaching (and going over) the threshold needed for her slow.

Molecular fission (augment) is useful to keep your 1st ability particles up 

primed continuity + narrow minded, would put particles up to 15 as it is, reaching 75% reduction

if range is really of a concern for you, consider throwing cunning drift in the exilus, otherwise escape velocity is also a good choice

After all these, you would have 3 normal mod slots left. I would recommend having something like adaptation/quick thinking, primed flow and the last mod either rage/adrenaline or stretch if you really like her portal.

 

for arcanes, I would recommend having arcane guardian as one of them, the other can be grace / energize / anything else you might be interested in. Energize would be a good choice if you were to pick stretch as her last mod, otherwise rage/adrenaline / spamming energy pizza should be good enough.

Nova works, you just have to build her with more effort.

Edited February 2, 2020 by Leyers_of_facade