(Edit: found an idea that i think is good) Which do you prefer: Nuking warframe powers (as a whole)being removed , the ability to repetitively spam nuking abilities being removed, or leave nuking abilities in warframe alone

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

When i say "nuke" i mean abilities capable of 1-shot killing everything in 30m+ radius. 

I voted for a reduction on the ability to spam them. What about you and why? (The question is in the title)

(Also, keep in mind this im just looking for opinions about the question alone. There are things i like about nuking, and things that i dont like about it. Whether nerfing things helps warframe or not is a whole 'nother topic)

Edit: After all the feedback, the one that @AuroraSonicBoom spoke about someting i like a lot, which is that there are other ways of nerfing the spam of nuke abilities like making more enemies. Like enemies that steal your energy is one way that prevents ability spam in the game already.

Edited February 5, 2020 by (PS4)IIFrost_GhostII

[(PSN)LeBlingKing]

The astounding thing about the Tenno is their ability to overcome any nerf.

They operate like a hive mind, instantly moving to the next best thing as soon as their current META falls under watchful, extremely digital eyes.

As a result, it won't even matter whether or not nukes get removed at this point. We're damned if they are, and damned if they ain't.

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

On 2020-02-01 at 11:14 AM, (PS4)LeBlingKing said:

The astounding thing about the Tenno is their ability to overcome any nerf.

They operate like a hive mind, instantly moving to the next best thing as soon as their current META falls under watchful, extremely digital eyes.

As a result, it won't even matter whether or not nukes get removed at this point. We're damned if they are, and damned if they ain't.

Im not really asking for a nerf just preference

 

Are you saying you want things to remain the same?

Also, The assumption that nothing can be made better at "this point" is provin wrong simply by the high multitude of other games going through processes of getting worst and getting better. Even extrmely popular games that lost a lot of the popularity have been revived and the same vice versa. The key is luck, thought, and not damming yourself further by doing nothing.

If solutions to problems were easy to see, there would be no problems. If you dont believe me try curing a human sickness virus with no knowledge of anything, see how many times you mess up and how much time it takes for you to solve such a complex problem, without giving up. 😏 You can argue that these 2 problems are not the same, but thats not the point, the point is that the pattern is the same. Things look impossible but sometimes arent, the only way to find out is to try.

If youre simply saying that it will take a long time to fix, a life lesson you must learn is the future is unpredictable. Theres still a lot of variables to consider, that could have warframe going in the right direction over night. Sometimes all you have to do is

- Understand how to give players a pleasure response in their brain

This is done ingame by curing discomfort. 

 

Say you have a bunch of enemies shooting at you, stopping you from getting the new harrow deluxe skin, and youre running out of timr. Initiate a pleasure response by giving the player the ability to whipe out all the enemies. The process of whiping the enemies out can be made more difficult by pressuring the players reflexes like telling them to jump or fail! Or Remember how this enemy fights or DIE! etc

Edited February 2, 2020 by (PS4)IIFrost_GhostII

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

1 hour ago, (PS4)LeBlingKing said:

The astounding thing about the Tenno is their ability to overcome any nerf.

They operate like a hive mind, instantly moving to the next best thing as soon as their current META falls under watchful, extremely digital eyes.

As a result, it won't even matter whether or not nukes get removed at this point. We're damned if they are, and damned if they ain't.

And for the record, this is a lazy response (and im not just saying that to be a white knight of warframe, its a rational response and heres what makes it rational:)

Tenno do not overcome any nerf. They just move on to the next thing DE hasnt thought about and nerfed yet, and is there an infinite amount of things that DE hasnt nerfed that is overpowered in the game? Theres more than one overpowered game item thats for sure, but its lazy to simply assume they all in game items can be overpowered by the players and mods alone....

If it were hopeless then at this point, that means theres an infinite amount of weapons and warframes that are overpowered.

If you care about warframe, try to prove me wrong I'd say.

Edited February 1, 2020 by (PS4)IIFrost_GhostII

[Corvid]

I'd say cutting down on ability spam in general might be a good step, not just the nukes.

[Loza03]

The spam, and extend it to CC too. What makes these things bad for the game is that they aren't a quick power trip, or an 'OH S***' button, they are the combat system once you progress far enough. And that's why the combat system gets so boring. When Kirby a game series designed from the ground up to be easy, is holding more power back from the players then something is severely wrong. Because Kirby has a buffet of such screen-nuke - Crash, Mike, Cook, Paint, Festival and one of the outcomes from Magic. All of these are noticeably defined by being limited use, usually one-use (Mike has 3). Cook is also generally a full heal as well, since it turns defeated enemies into healing items.

Screen Nukes are nothing new to gaming, but they are always limited in use. Except in Warframe. Combat is interesting in games because it presents a puzzle. 'How will I defeat these enemies'. From game to game that answer can range from simple to complex, but it is usually different depending on the enemies, environment and resources available to you. In Kirby, it depends on your copy ability and the copy abilities of the enemies in the environment. In Halo, it depends on the two weapons you have, what's in the environment, and your opponent. In DOOM, it depends on how much ammo you have in all your weapons, including your screen nukes and single-target insta-kill. In Warframe, the answer is 'CC/Nuke enemies'. Always. There's no situation in which completely disabling or killing all enemies isn't applicable, and since energy is so easily available, there is rarely any need to ration the use of it.

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

15 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

The spam, and extend it to CC too. What makes these things bad for the game is that they aren't a quick power trip, or an 'OH S***' button, they are the combat system once you progress far enough.

A-freaking-men

15 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

Combat is interesting in games because it presents a puzzle. 'How will I defeat these enemies'

Preach!

15 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

There's no situation in which completely disabling or killing all enemies isn't applicable, and since energy is so easily available, there is rarely any need to ration the use of it

Emphasis on the energy part!

 

I couldnt agree more. The spammed nukes are somewhat mind numbing 

Edited February 2, 2020 by (PS4)IIFrost_GhostII

[844448]

I rather leave it alone, I haven't seen any game that gives me the ability to use my abilities as I wish. You say spammed nukes are mind numbing? Let's see when they tone it down and you can't use your ability because you used it and it's a high level mission

I'll remember what you said

[(PSN)CrazyBeaTzu]

Stay the same.

 

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

11 hours ago, 844448 said:

I rather leave it alone, I haven't seen any game that gives me the ability to use my abilities as I wish. You say spammed nukes are mind numbing? Let's see when they tone it down and you can't use your ability because you used it and it's a high level mission

I'll remember what you said

Remember what i said for what?

[844448]

13 minutes ago, (PS4)IIFrost_GhostII said:

Remember what i said for what?

 

14 hours ago, (PS4)IIFrost_GhostII said:

I couldnt agree more. The spammed nukes are somewhat mind numbing 

Your words have been marked, if DE ever made the spamming fixed and you complain about not being able to use your ability freely, I'll give your words to you

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

2 hours ago, 844448 said:

 

Your words have been marked, if DE ever made the spamming fixed and you complain about not being able to use your ability freely, I'll give your words to you

Oh ive played this game back when abilities werent so easily accessible and enjoyed every second of it. I also play other games where abilities range from 30 second to 80 second cooldowns even though im constantly being swarmed by enemies. The idea is using movement, cover, and your weapons in a good combination to hold back your enemies until your abilities are ready to wreak havoc 😈 Trying to survive till then, keeps your brain on edge and racing which i sort of like. Just as much as feeling overpowered. Nuking the whole map 24/7 though.. i dont understand how anyone can think that it isnt more mind numbing then the latter..... 

 

But aside from that, i want this discussion to be about peoples opinions and reasons for liking and disliking nukes.

Rather than promising to mock me later if things go south (Promising to be irritating, childish), id rather you say why you think it isnt somewhat mind numbing, or how you even know what i mean by "somewhat". As that contributes to the disccusion and is more mature.

 

And yes other games dont give players constant nuking abilities for the reason of mind numbingness. I could not imagine how painfully boring Assassins Creed, Watchdogs, Spyro, Call of duty Zombies, Minecraft, Crash, Destiny Etc would be If all of them just allowed you to nuke EVERYTHING as much as you want. Id die

Edited February 2, 2020 by (PS4)IIFrost_GhostII

[(XBOX)Ashen Rust]

Leave it alone.

No one forces you to use "nuke" powers or play with those who do. Don't even say,"I can't avoid them in public games". Solo and private play are there for that exact reason, use them.

Why would it be right to take a "fun" mechanic away from those who enjoy powers simply because someone else hates them? Go play a game like Halo, Gears or COD if all you want is shooting. I'd say play a Diablo clone for hack'n slash, but those crying about "nuke" powers couldn't handle mage players.

There is nothing wrong with "nuke" powers in a game about nuking your enemies as fast as possible. It's no different than those who spam the Amprex or Ignis Wraith with range mods. It's 100% valid. Doesn't matter if you don't like it, that's your opinion. 

At the end of the day this is supposed to be entertainment. If those who love powers are entertained, then mission accomplished. To those who don't, again solo and private play are your best options. If that's not good enough, then it sucks to be you. I'm going to keep using my powers in the game as I see fit for my fun factor. If anyone doesn't like it, don't play with me. You won't bother me at all. I prefer it that way.

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

1 hour ago, (XB1)Rust Plague said:

Why would it be right to take a "fun" mechanic away from those who enjoy powers simply because someone else hates them?

The same reason their isnt a weapon that can 1 shot kill every enemy, at any level, in the game at any time. 

The same reason DE changed the node "E-gate".

Its not the type of gameplay DE wants to encourage as it takes away from the type of game there game is or wants it to become.

Additonaly:

I would argue that giving players all these powerful nuking abilities have removed some things that were fun to other players. Like the way one gets to the top of the leaderboards and the changes in the amount of repetitive grind to aquire resources. 

If things truely shouldnt be removed simply because people like it, warframe couldnt exist.

1 hour ago, (XB1)Rust Plague said:

At the end of the day this is supposed to be entertainment.

This is fact. Something i hope everyone understands about games.

 

But yea, The reason there is no weapon that can obliterate an entire map no matter what type of enemy it is, has infinite ammo, and increases the resource drop chance of killed enemies by 10,000%, is because DE wants the game to require more attention. If they didnt, catchmoon would not have been nerfed.

Theres a Clear value in games that challenges players minds to some degree, and DE shows they want to capitalize on that value by nerfing and buffing weapons. Trying to give players something that they didnt know they wanted sort to speak.

Basing all your descions solely on what people like is always chaotic.

Edited February 2, 2020 by (PS4)IIFrost_GhostII

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

1 hour ago, (XB1)Rust Plague said:

Leave it alone.

No one forces you to use "nuke" powers or play with those who do. Don't even say,"I can't avoid them in public games". Solo and private play are there for that exact reason, use them.

Why would it be right to take a "fun" mechanic away from those who enjoy powers simply because someone else hates them? Go play a game like Halo, Gears or COD if all you want is shooting. I'd say play a Diablo clone for hack'n slash, but those crying about "nuke" powers couldn't handle mage players.

There is nothing wrong with "nuke" powers in a game about nuking your enemies as fast as possible. It's no different than those who spam the Amprex or Ignis Wraith with range mods. It's 100% valid. Doesn't matter if you don't like it, that's your opinion. 

At the end of the day this is supposed to be entertainment. If those who love powers are entertained, then mission accomplished. To those who don't, again solo and private play are your best options. If that's not good enough, then it sucks to be you. I'm going to keep using my powers in the game as I see fit for my fun factor. If anyone doesn't like it, don't play with me. You won't bother me at all. I prefer it that way.

I like your response overall though, it brings up a very complicated issue

How much freedom to choose is too much?

Too much of it means the people may as well be making the game themselves. 

Too little of it means the people may as well be watching a movie.

Problem with the 1st one is the only way for it to work is listening to the majority of the people, and the game will be unstablish. Rip when you end up not being in the majority of something you want

Problem with the 2nd one is obvious which is the developers dont listen to their players. I cannot stand games that dont let me color myself white, black, n blue lol.

Interesting

Edited February 2, 2020 by (PS4)IIFrost_GhostII

[(XBOX)Ashen Rust]

10 minutes ago, (PS4)IIFrost_GhostII said:

The same reason their isnt a weapon that can 1 shot kill every enemy, at any level, in the game at any time. 

The same reason DE changed the node "E-gate".

Its not the type of gameplay DE wants to encourage as it takes away from the type of game there game is or wants it to become.

What does this even mean? You don't work for DE and really should stop assuming what they want to "encourage". Warframe is exactly what DE makes it. 

15 minutes ago, (PS4)IIFrost_GhostII said:

Additonaly:

I would argue that giving players all these powerful nuking abilities have removed some things that were fun to other players. Like getting to the top of the leaderboards and the change in the amount of repetitive grind to aquire resources. 

If things truely shouldnt be removed simply because people like it, warframe couldnt exist.

Nothing is stopping anyone from getting on the leaderboards.

Grind has absolulty nothing to do with "nuke" powers.

Removing powers is not the same as removing bugs, glitchs or nerfs. Powers are part of the core of the game. Deal with it.

20 minutes ago, (PS4)IIFrost_GhostII said:

But yea, The reason there is no weapon that can obliterate an entire map no matter what type of enemy it is, has infinite ammo, and increases the resource drop chance of killed enemies by 10,000%, is because DE wants the game to require more attention. If they didnt, catchmoon would not have been nerfed.

Theres a Clear value in games that challenges players minds to some degree, and DE shows they want to capitalize on that value by nerfing and buffing weapons.

All battery powered weapons have infinite ammo...... Cycron and the Fulmin are two examples. And both do a great job of "oblitrating" rooms regardless of enemy types, fast. The Fulmin doesn't even need a riven.

Your argument is falling apart. What does any of this have to do with spamming powers? Powers, mind you, everyone gets. The Catchmoon is one weapon that clearly was over used for only one reason. It's still a great weapon and the "nerf" isn't even noticable. I don't even use it. There are better options in my opinion, even with it's riven.

I don't think you understand the point of balance and options. There are hundreds of weapons in warframe, why have so many options when one does the trick? Thus making everything else pointless. Why add any new weapons or tools at all? The catchmoon is the only choice..... Nerfs allow for more options.

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

1 hour ago, (XB1)Rust Plague said:

What does this even mean? You don't work for DE and really should stop assuming what they want to "encourage". Warframe is exactly what DE makes it. 

Take your own advice: 

3 hours ago, (XB1)Rust Plague said:

Don't even say,"I can't avoid them in public games". Solo and private play are there for that exact reason, use them

You assumed this because it was most probable, so dont tell me not to assume what i said when it is also most probable... neither of us needs to work for DE to assume the obvious...

unless you can come up with a reason that proves me wrong about why E-gate and mag's augment was changed/nerfed. Stop being a hypocrite.

1 hour ago, (XB1)Rust Plague said:

Grind has absolulty nothing to do with "nuke" powers.

Well. Would it be fair if all you could kill was 1 enemy, and that 1 enemy gave you one plastid, per mission? Or would they need to increase the difficulty of that enemy and increase the amount of plastids dropped to make the mission feel worth it?

If you vote the 2nd one, grind obviously has A LOT to do with nuke powers. Especially repetitve grind.

1 hour ago, (XB1)Rust Plague said:

All battery powered weapons have infinite ammo

And there are some missions that you can 1 shot kill every enemy.

The key word that i used in the sentence you were responding to is "and" for a reason... if i would have said "or", then it would make sense for you to say this, but i didnt.

1 hour ago, (XB1)Rust Plague said:

Your argument is falling apart

No, you just made a bunch of invalid interpretations and gave one piece of bad advice that removed support from your own argument.

1 hour ago, (XB1)Rust Plague said:

The Catchmoon is one weapon that clearly was over used for only one reason.

The reason why it was over used was because people liked it, and it went against what DE wanted the game to be. So it was nerfed. Completely points out the answer to your question about why fun things get removed just cause some people hate it.

1 hour ago, (XB1)Rust Plague said:

There are hundreds of weapons in warframe, why have so many options when one does the trick?

Well it certainly shouldnt be because of preference that you previously claimed that nuking should be based on. If someone prefers having one weapon do the trick while others want more of a challenge, then you should make 1 weapon do the trick and leave the other 100s of options for prefrence (i mean this is the logic you used on me about nuking)...

This is funny really, check out how simular this is to what youre saying:

There are lots of abilities in warframe, why have so many options when spammed nukes does the trick? 🤔

1 hour ago, (XB1)Rust Plague said:

Thus making everything else pointless

thus the spammed nuke abilities make every other ability pointless 😐

1 hour ago, (XB1)Rust Plague said:

Why add any new weapons or tools at all?

Why add any new non nuking spammable abilities at all 🤔

1 hour ago, (XB1)Rust Plague said:

The catchmoon is the only choice.

 Nuking is the only choice 🤓

1 hour ago, (XB1)Rust Plague said:

Nerfs allow for more options.

Nerfs allow for more options.🙃

 

See what i did there? Youre being a hypocrite again.

Nerfs are, or should be, based on more than options or preference. It should be based on what type of game you wish to create.

I understand balance, and i understand why the catchmoon was nerfed. What you just said proves that you dont. The nerf was not made for more options because the nerf did the exact opposite.

Edited February 2, 2020 by (PS4)IIFrost_GhostII

[Gabbynaru]

Option #3. Cause since this is a coop game, I see no negatives on nukes existing.

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

43 minutes ago, Gabbynaru said:

Option #3. Cause since this is a coop game, I see no negatives on nukes existing.

See i felt that way about ember. I loved the old ember, still do, and still want her back. I mean, i was helping players with kills and if they didnt like it, id say "go play with your clan of people who dont like nuking embers". Its a co-op game for crying outloud

But DE felt differently. They felt that ember interfered with what they wanted the game to be like so BAM she was nerfed and i doubt she'll ever be the same now. I love the new ember (sorta, she still feels a little stressful to use with how hard you have to pay attention to her abilities), but will forever miss the ember before her nerfs.

Edited February 2, 2020 by (PS4)IIFrost_GhostII

[Loza03]

27 minutes ago, Gabbynaru said:

Option #3. Cause since this is a coop game, I see no negatives on nukes existing.

One person doing everything isn't very co-operative though. Nukes generally make it so only one person carries an entire team without the other participants getting involved. Yes, it's helping everyone progress, but if people are progressing without doing anything, that's no better than leeching. 

And again, limitless nukes and CC tank the variety of gameplay. If you have one, there's basically no gameplay since the core loop innate to all games of 'how should I best proceed in this situation' is fundamentally lost. You push the win button. That solves every problem, unless it's been explicitly marked as 'not affected by win button'.

3 hours ago, (XB1)Rust Plague said:

No one forces you to use "nuke" powers or play with those who do. Don't even say,"I can't avoid them in public games". Solo and private play are there for that exact reason, use them.

This argument is deeply flawed. You cannot expect players to just not use items, in particular when designing challenges.

Imagine if DE had brought out Arbitrations, with all the fanfare of 'we want this to be a difficult mode', but instead of the (somewhat half-hearted) attempts to design around player's ludicrous power levels with Arbitration drones, they'd said 'We want this mode to be hard, so when playing it, please don't use Nukes and Crowd Control spam', and that was all they did. Imagine if they'd brought out the Grendel missions and asked people to play them without mods, instead of disabling them automatically. That'd be absurd. Nobody would do it. But that's the logic being used here. Cheese tactics in general sabotage DE's ability to make engaging content for everyone, because they have to try and design around the cheese tactics - using cheesy enemy or mission design.

I mean, just look at Profit-Taker. Immunity to all abilities? Check. Magnetic AoE to limit player use of abilities? Check. High-damage homing/AoE attacks with little telegraphing? Check. Swarms of mooks to distract from the actual fight? Check. Forced to conform to a specific build type to prevent use of standard high-power builds? Check. Unsurprisingly, people hate Profit-Taker. Empyrean? Hard progression reset and hugely buffed enemies. Kuva Liches? Forced death, minimal telegraphing, arbitrary resistances/immunities to common damage types and status effects. And again, Arbitrations and Grendel missions.

You can avoid the abilities, but their effect on how the game is designed is unavoidable.

[Gabbynaru]

1 hour ago, Loza03 said:

One person doing everything isn't very co-operative though. Nukes generally make it so only one person carries an entire team without the other participants getting involved. Yes, it's helping everyone progress, but if people are progressing without doing anything, that's no better than leeching. 

And again, limitless nukes and CC tank the variety of gameplay. If you have one, there's basically no gameplay since the core loop innate to all games of 'how should I best proceed in this situation' is fundamentally lost. You push the win button. That solves every problem, unless it's been explicitly marked as 'not affected by win button'.

Way I see it, it doesn't matter if nukes are push the win button, because at the end of the day, they serve the gameplay purpose. If I'm in a team with a nuke, then the nuke is ensuring that progress is made for the team. If I am the nuke, then I help that progress happen for multiple people. At the end of the day, that's what gameplay relies on. Progress. Being successful. Nukes make sure both of those happen. They therefore help. Both the individual and the group. They are peak cooperation. It's not a downside to win. It never will be. So nukes are fine by me.

[Mikaer88]

9 hours ago, 844448 said:

Your words have been marked, if DE ever made the spamming fixed and you complain about not being able to use your ability freely, I'll give your words to you

Okay...this sounds creepy and weird AF.

[Loza03]

2 minutes ago, Gabbynaru said:

Way I see it, it doesn't matter if nukes are push the win button, because at the end of the day, they serve the gameplay purpose. If I'm in a team with a nuke, then the nuke is ensuring that progress is made for the team. If I am the nuke, then I help that progress happen for multiple people. At the end of the day, that's what gameplay relies on. Progress. Being successful. Nukes make sure both of those happen. They therefore help. Both the individual and the group. They are peak cooperation. It's not a downside to win. It never will be. So nukes are fine by me.

Like I said, this just encourages - and in some respects, flat-out IS - leeching behaviour. One person does everything, everyone else just sits around, whether they like it or not. Is it any wonder that the behaviour is so prevalent throughout the game, if that's what everything is teaching is successful.

And besides - success might be the goal, but that's not everything to gameplay. As I referred to before, there's a core gameplay loop that pretty much every game ultimately boils down to - identifying the situation, forming a plan, and executing that plan to resolve the immediate situation. That's what a game is, to some degree. Even a clicker game offers it in some extremely limited capacity with the various auto-clicker items you can acquire. It might be an extremely simplistic version of this loop, but it's still a situation, a plan, and an execution. There's a myriad different ways that can be expressed. But in Warframe, it's always the same, unless something - either you or a cheesily-designed enemy - says a hard no. And then everyone loses.

[844448]

7 hours ago, (PS4)IIFrost_GhostII said:

Oh ive played this game back when abilities werent so easily accessible and enjoyed every second of it. I also play other games where abilities range from 30 second to 80 second cooldowns even though im constantly being swarmed by enemies. The idea is using movement, cover, and your weapons in a good combination to hold back your enemies until your abilities are ready to wreak havoc 😈 Trying to survive till then, keeps your brain on edge and racing which i sort of like. Just as much as feeling overpowered. Nuking the whole map 24/7 though.. i dont understand how anyone can think that it isnt more mind numbing then the latter..... 

 

But aside from that, i want this discussion to be about peoples opinions and reasons for liking and disliking nukes.

Rather than promising to mock me later if things go south (Promising to be irritating, childish), id rather you say why you think it isnt somewhat mind numbing, or how you even know what i mean by "somewhat". As that contributes to the disccusion and is more mature.

  Reveal hidden contents

And yes other games dont give players constant nuking abilities for the reason of mind numbingness. I could not imagine how painfully boring Assassins Creed, Watchdogs, Spyro, Call of duty Zombies, Minecraft, Crash, Destiny Etc would be If all of them just allowed you to nuke EVERYTHING as much as you want. Id die

Are you still playing on star chart mission or playing on railjack at the moment? Kosma grineer on veil are tougher than your usual grineer so have you tried that? We've progressed past level 40 enemies on sedna, the answer would be giving us tougher enemies to fight. Try fighting kosma grineer without relying on your nukes, you can get your wish on cover, movement and weapons

Also, why must warframe be like other mainstream games like you mentioned where abilities cannot be used as you wish? I've played destiny until 900 power and it bores me when you can't use your abilities with enemies spamming area damage or homing shots and I have to stay behind cover just to heal myself before stepping out and continue fighting

Mocking you? If you think like that, so be it, but if you complain later, I can remind you that you wanted it before so you get what you wish

[Loza03]

41 minutes ago, 844448 said:

Also, why must warframe be like other mainstream games like you mentioned where abilities cannot be used as you wish? I've played destiny until 900 power and it bores me when you can't use your abilities with enemies spamming area damage or homing shots and I have to stay behind cover just to heal myself before stepping out and continue fighting

Abilities are not the same thing as nukes. Nukes are abilities and weapons, but not all weapons and abilities are nukes.

I have no issues with the spammability of the Wuclone, because for as powerful as it is, it's as limited as you are. It's a combat aide. Nukes and mass CC are not. They are the start and end of the fight. There are plenty of games with abilities that are freely accessible, not dissimilar to Warframe. But rarely are those powers so strong that they completely bypass gameplay with no downsides like they are in Warframe.

I agree that cooldowns aren't good for Warframe, but that doesn't mean that there should be no stopgap whatsoever for such immensely powerful abilities as we have.