Forma changes

[(PSN)AlongAkmal]

If the next update are coming, can the developer team change the forma xp system? I feel like it's waste my time investing something that I wanna upgrade and just use it on the go with full build without going in mission to lvl it up

FORMA xp system changes to help new players experience weapon or warframe build on the go without lvl it up and saves some time

[kapn655321]

I think part of that is how the weapons work at base values, and how we as players won't bring a weapon until we feel it's perfectly ready. Many weapons could work just fine missing a few mods.. not naming any names, but some of the OP ones with the highest usage statistics. (We just don't use em' until they're all spiffed up with everything we want in them.) Part of the appeal of Warframe's model to a portion of players, is that is does have long term leveling investments that culminate in an item undergoing noticable growth in it's performance.

Some folks are here just to be a space ninja for free, and kill enemies like they're mowing the grass.. with shiny trinkets being showered on them.
Others want the feel of an RPG that represents the growth of the player over a whole in game career that can span years..

To the former, they created S.O., and have meta nodes like Hydron n' such.
To the latter, well, the whole rest of the game.

People care more about their belongings when they put at least some minimal effort into their construction and decisions. (Ikea effect.)

So, with this in mind, how might you revise the leveling system to not shortcut the long term progression being there for players long term?

[Highresist]

6 minutes ago, kapn655321 said:

So, with this in mind, how might you revise the leveling system to not shortcut the long term progression being there for players long term?

That would be a great argument, if releveling brought any value to the experience and progress of the player, which it doesn't. Releveling is nothing more than maindless time sink, people would not learn more about their weapon, or warframe when they relevel it. You already have to wait 24h to build a forma, as a newer player, in the first place and most weapons need between 3 and 5 of them in order to have full builds. As for a veteran, who has tens of formas and can do 0-30 in less than a minute, what's the point of releveling? Why would anyone in their right mind make the system even more tedious is beyond my understanding.

[kapn655321]

1 hour ago, Highresist said:

if releveling brought any value to the experience

A star with a number. "Prestige level." Just the other day, there was a thread with a Zephyr main with 1000 forma on their frame. ...what's the purpose? They like leveling and the prestige score. ...now, this is absolutely an outlier case, but the point remains the same that some appetite exists for this, however well designed or catered to.

I personally feel each forma should work like Badass points from Borderlands 2.. you get a small random pool of minor permanent bonuses to choose from. 5% to fire rate, or reload speed, damage, status chance... whatever. If people want to jailbreak their guns to the moon and back, more power to them.. But if they did, you can already guess they'd want a way to, "bring it back down to zero, but with some sort of recognition achievement."

 

[Highresist]

1 minute ago, kapn655321 said:

Just the other day, there was a thread with a Zephyr main with 1000 forma on their frame. ...what's the purpose?

Meming, nothing gameplay related, partly, becaue there is nothing to do in the game after a sertain point.

Edited April 7, 2020 by Highresist

[JohnKable]

40 minutes ago, (PS4)AlongAkmal said:

If the next update are coming, can the developer team change the forma xp system? I feel like it's waste my time investing something that I wanna upgrade and just use it on the go with full build without going in mission to lvl it up

FORMA xp system changes to help new players experience weapon or warframe build on the go without lvl it up and saves some time

With a decent mr (10+) a potato installed and a forma on your weapon you can already easily do 99.9% of content in the game effortlessly with the weapon at rank 0 and just a few mods.
There is this thig, people convice themselves that they cant actually play the game when leveling and must go to specific leveling missions with good xp farm. You can actually play the game while leveling stuff. Sure you might not be at your peak performance but there are really few things you cant do while leveling (honestly i came up only with long arbitrations or kuva missions, not because you can actually do those but because it might be detrimental for the whole squad)

[kapn655321]

1 hour ago, Highresist said:

Meming, nothing gameplay related, partly, becaue there is nothing to do in the game after a sertain point.

Playing the game for it's mechanics and leveling system is something to do.

If a player doesn't care to play the game once they checked off their to-do list... then doesn't it suit DE better to delay that as much as possible? Otherwise, "there isn't much to do," players are gone in minutes, not hours/days/months.

[Highresist]

4 minutes ago, kapn655321 said:

If a player doesn't care to play the game once they checked off their to-do list... then doesn't it suit DE better to delay that as much as possible?

Hmm, make something interesting to do or make lazy, bs, timesink systems that have 0 gameplay value.
Guess which one would keep people playing the game for longer.

Edited April 7, 2020 by Highresist

[kapn655321]

1 hour ago, Highresist said:

Hmm, make something interesting to do or make lazy, bs, timesink system that have 0 gameplay value.
Guess which one would keep people playing the game for longer.

According to that Zephyr...? Consider how long they'd have to play. They simply enjoy the game. They found mechanics they enjoy. The loot is supplemental to the loop.. and ultimately, ALL TIME spent in a videogame, is a time sink. What do you get from playing 100 hours of mario that you don't get from playing 100 hours of Warframe, except a screen that says, "You have finished playing this game."?

Perhaps the game to others is just obtaining the loot.. and the faster the loot, the more rewarding the experience... but that has a very limited engagement time. DE cannot possibly create enough content to quench the impatient, optimal, speedrunner.. the most fickle players in our player base, who turn on DE and players for not feeding them fast enough.

Some of us are here in the sandbox, playin' with our cool virtual ninja action figures, and trying out wacky new ways to build that involve lots of leveling to make it feel like it took some effort. Not a perfect system, but that much is sustainable.

There's no way to make people feel as rewarded as they wish to be.. We have many players here that are here to either reach some peak of superiority, or do a completionist run to see a collection of things in order.. but does it seem to you that DE made that the intent and focus of their game? I'd say they cater to that just enough to make money off those players.. they'll be miserable and profitable the whole time, before stomping off dramatically when they run out of stuff to do.. because they're kind of addicted to a hyper inflated reward stimuli. Everyone else, who's here to see all the ways combat can be expressed by unique individuals... they are the sustainable players. Tedium in a game with friends, can still be pretty enjoyable.. and I feel that's the platform we have.

[Highresist]

1 minute ago, kapn655321 said:

and ultimately, ALL TIME spent in a videogame, is a time sink. What do you get from playing 100 hours of mario that you don't get from playing 100 hours of Warframe, except a screen that says, "You have finished playing this game."?

Fun time, although I would replace Mario Cart with Destiny 2, because it's more relevant. Warframe has nothing to make people stick to the game, other than repeatable mindless content that requiers very little thought process, if any at all.

 

5 minutes ago, kapn655321 said:

Tedium in a game with friends, can still be pretty enjoyable.. and I feel that's the platform we have.

Except when your friends leave the game, because there is nothing to do.

7 minutes ago, kapn655321 said:

We have many players here that are here to either reach some peak of superiority, or do a completionist run to see a collection of things in order.. but does it seem to you that DE made that the intent and focus of their game?

No and that is the problem. DE lacks focus. They either have no clue what to do with Warframe, or worse, don't care as long as players spend time in it, which is evident with Scarlet Spear. Yeah, there is an influx of players, but after they get R5 Grace, Energize, Avenger, Fury, Velocity and whatever else they miss, people will go playing other stuff and maybe return for the New War, while at the same time DE is specifically nerfing frames for a timed event.

 

11 minutes ago, kapn655321 said:

Everyone else, who's here to see all the ways combat can be expressed by unique individuals... they are the sustainable players.

Yeah, you see, the problem with that is those players are growing fewer by the day, because, again, there is nothing to do in the game. 
This is why prolonged farming and time gating is a really bad progressiong design. Once players pass it, regardless if they are MR16 or 28, they realize there is no content and either leave the game or do something ridicilous like leveling Zephyr or Vauban 1000 times, just for the lolz. What comes after that? Only one thing - find something else to play.

[kapn655321]

1 hour ago, Highresist said:

Warframe has nothing to make people stick to the game

To make You, stick to the game. Am I not a person? Am I not still in this game? Infact, you're still here.. so are you sure?

What comes after leveling a Zephyr to level 1000? ...probably leveling them to level 1001 and so on. "They're gonna quit any minute now..." doesn't add up when they've willingly and happily undergone that already.

[ILOHARTA]

1 hour ago, kapn655321 said:

I think part of that is how the weapons work at base values, and how we as players won't bring a weapon until we feel it's perfectly ready. Many weapons could work just fine missing a few mods.. not naming any names, but some of the OP ones with the highest usage statistics. (We just don't use em' until they're all spiffed up with everything we want in them.) Part of the appeal of Warframe's model to a portion of players, is that is does have long term leveling investments that culminate in an item undergoing noticable growth in it's performance.

Some folks are here just to be a space ninja for free, and kill enemies like they're mowing the grass.. with shiny trinkets being showered on them.
Others want the feel of an RPG that represents the growth of the player over a whole in game career that can span years..

To the former, they created S.O., and have meta nodes like Hydron n' such.
To the latter, well, the whole rest of the game.

People care more about their belongings when they put at least some minimal effort into their construction and decisions. (Ikea effect.)

So, with this in mind, how might you revise the leveling system to not shortcut the long term progression being there for players long term?

this is a good analysis, let me throw 2 cents: the time/goal gating is meant to "soften" the speed at which new meta arise. It would be troublesome, from a business perspective, if the meta shift would be too quick.

[Highresist]

1 minute ago, kapn655321 said:

Infact, you're still here.. so are you sure?

Yup, I, as most who play Warframe are still in the game either awating for things to change, do the sortie or farm whatever arcanes we are missing and go play something else. You think I'm the exception, but the fact is, players who play Warframe and Warframe alone are.
 

4 minutes ago, kapn655321 said:

happily undergone that

I sincerely doubt that and, as I said, I find that 1000 forma journey as an argument of "there is nothing to do".

[kapn655321]

1 hour ago, Highresist said:

I sincerely doubt that and, as I said, I find that 1000 forma journey as an argument of "there is nothing to do"

So what would you like to Do?

[ShortCat]

Nothing of value will be lost if Forma would not reset gear lvl. I would even go so far and say, at this point in WF gear lvl design is outdated and the game would perform would be in a better state without any gear lvling.

[Highresist]

1 minute ago, kapn655321 said:

So what would you like to Do?

To begin with - none time gated content. If any new content comes out, it must be free to play, whenever people want to play it. This is one of my biggest issues with Warframe, especially with Eidolons, because I cba fixing my evening schedule, from having dinner to putting the kids asleep, in order to play the content I enjoy.

As for general gameplay - actual Co-op missions with designated rolse and coordination. There is no need to make new type of mission, but instead - rework the existing one. 
As a start - Capture missions be actual capture, where you need to incapacitate the target instead of blowing it all the way to hell and call it a day.
Itroduce mechanics that players need to pay attention to, instead of mowing down the entire map, while watching animes on the 2nd monitor. For example Corpus enemies could throw magnetic waves that opens you up to taking extra damage in addition to the normal effect, which players should dodge. 
As a whole I would like the gameplay to be more interactive, instead of mindless slauther combined with the occasional nulifier that you accidently stepped in and lost your 80k Rhino armor.
Path of Exiles faces a similar problem with player power, after a sertain point and the solution to that, except unreal scaling, is boss fights, something that Warframe badly needs. Currently every single boss fight in the game has some type of invurnability mechanic that does nothing else that prolong the fight, while the bosses themselves are no threat to the players. Even Eidolons fail in that category, where you don't need to protect yourselves as much as protect the lures, which I find absolutely the worst part of the fight, especially when playing Trinity.

The last part of the problem is rewards. The entire reward pool needs to be reworked. For a looter shooter, the loot is not exciting and the focus on cosmetic rewards rather than gameplay ones, only emphasises that issue.

[kapn655321]

I like putting bullets in Grineer.
When it comes to games, I want lots of fighting mechanics I can master the timing and accuracy of, and performance of for stylistic reasons. I want a looooong long grind ahead of me, so I know that if I take things at reasonable pace, I'll have stuff to do for years to come. I want leveling, horde shooting, tons of weapons, customization options, different characters with powers, cc, healing and other quirky support mechanics, parkour and movement mechanics that allow me to utilize entire stages for fluid maneuvering... Those are all fun things that I would be happy to do in any videogame, any day. So when I think to myself, "I'll play another game," ...what game does any of that better, Especially at this price point?

There are other games that are better at aspects of things Warframe touches on, but they are far shorter, narrower in scope, and more expensive by far.. As for what Warframe doesn't have.. If I'm not on here, I'm on a tower defense game for a more mindless gameplay that contrasts with tight resource management, Sins of a Solar Empire (RTS) to play a support economy to one of my friend's war hungry playstyle, Soul Calibur and fighting games with better combat mechanics and balance, Downwell for it's tight controls, and other RPGs that are WORLDS more boring which I ultimately give up on for not having the kind of long term play, mission types, etc.

No matter what game I play, I'm still going to want to, "put bullets in Grineer," and Warframe provides that type of experience better than any alternative I've ever found. I like the gameplay loop. I am totally and entirely ok with not getting anything for whooping on mid level Grineer I've killed a thousand times, or getting very minor levels to supplement tertiary gear, because the game itself is a fun way to spend time. No one is obligated or expected to no-life this as though it were a job, and there is no mass exodus event of 4+ year players all walking out at once.. if you're waiting for that, you'll be waiting a good long while. As much as I've heard that all before, I still see those players in the forum or in game months after.. when their new $60 title got boring. If you want to punish yourself with being disappointed with any other videogame to give yourself a break from being disappointed with this one, be my guest. Otherwise, sincerely, best of luck, Tenno.

Edited April 7, 2020 by kapn655321

[(PSN)Apoleon_amarr]

Imagine they change the forma so that they dont reset the rank of the weapon but increase the required exp to level them up x10 as a balance fix lol

Edited April 7, 2020 by (PS4)Apoleon_amarr

[Highresist]

8 minutes ago, kapn655321 said:

So when I think to myself, "I'll play another game," ...what game does any of that better, Especially at this price point?

Currently Destiny 2.

[kapn655321]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Apoleon_amarr said:

Imagine they change the forma so that they dont reset the rank of the weapon but increase the required exp to level them up x10 as a balance fix lol

You thought the Kuva weapons taking 5 forma made people salty before, add an exponent delay to forma? Oh lawd.

 

1 hour ago, Highresist said:

Currently Destiny 2.

So why aren't you on a Destiny 2 forum?

Edited April 7, 2020 by kapn655321

[Veridian]

3 hours ago, Highresist said:

 people would not learn more about their weapon, or warframe when they relevel it. 

I couldn't disagree more.

If you're not just blindly copying youtube builds, the time that a few forma make you spend with a piece of equipment could be an eye opener. 

I'd go even further, if there was a "total used forma" stat it would be infinitely more valuable as a proof of knowledge of the game to MR.

Edited April 7, 2020 by Ver1dian

[Highresist]

33 minutes ago, Ver1dian said:

a few forma make you spend with a piece of equipment could be an eye opener. 

How is the experience of mowing down level 40 goons in Hydron an eye opener, when it literally doesn't make a difference if you have 3 or 8 mods on the weapon? 😄 That is if you are actually playing the game and not following an Equinox on Adaro. If you think weapon modding is some sort of complex system, no, you have 5 staple mods, one element combo and maybe, just maybe a single slot where you can experiment and do nich stuff, that's it.
As for leveling frames, you don't even level with mods for that Warframe, you level with the Umbra mobs and Vigor or Quick Thinking. You learn NOTHING about the warframe, because it does not function before you mod it properly and you can not mod it properly at level 0, because 1st-it's paper and 2nd-you don't even have your skill kit available.

33 minutes ago, Ver1dian said:

I'd go even further, if there was a "total used forma" stat it would be infinitely more valuable as a proof of knowledge of the game to MR.

I'd go even further, the time people spend on releveling weapons and frames is less valuable in terms of teaching the player than the MR challanges, which are already absolutely useless and btw, MR means absolutely nothing above 16.

Edited April 7, 2020 by Highresist

[Veridian]

6 hours ago, Highresist said:

How is the experience of mowing down level 40 goons in Hydron an eye opener, when it literally doesn't make a difference if you have 3 or 8 mods on the weapon? 😄 That is if you are actually playing the game and not following an Equinox on Adaro. If you think weapon modding is some sort of complex system, no, you have 5 staple mods, one element combo and maybe, just maybe a single slot where you can experiment and do nich stuff, that's it.
As for leveling frames, you don't even level with mods for that Warframe, you level with the Umbra mobs and Vigor or Quick Thinking. You learn NOTHING about the warframe, because it does not function before you mod it properly and you can not mod it properly at level 0, because 1st-it's paper and 2nd-you don't even have your skill kit available.

I'd go even further, the time people spend on releveling weapons and frames is less valuable in terms of teaching the player than the MR challanges, which are already absolutely useless and btw, MR means absolutely nothing above 16.

How you, or any other mr28 with 250 hrs approach the game is their own business. Don't confuse it with mine.

Everything that you mentioned is cookie cutter MR grind and I find that more boring than waching paint dry.

 

Edited April 7, 2020 by Ver1dian

[Chappie]

7 hours ago, kapn655321 said:

So why aren't you on a Destiny 2 forum?

Because that would mean admitting to himself and others that destiny pisses him off too.   When a person takes the time to sit in anger and let if fester to hatred...I am no longer sure it is the game that is the problem.

[Highresist]

2 minutes ago, Chappie1975 said:

Because that would mean admitting to himself and others that destiny pisses him off too.   When a person takes the time to sit in anger and let if fester to hatred...I am no longer sure it is the game that is the problem.

Wtf are you talking about. The question was stupid, answering it is meaningless, yes Destiny has problems, but they are not Warframe scale problems 😄 . Destiny has good progression, satisfying rewards and immagine that - actual endgame content.

Edited April 7, 2020 by Highresist