Loki needs a rework

[(PSN)cazazombies245]

hace 16 minutos, (PS4)Captain_Bonecold dijo:

I have mastered the warframes I use.

The fact that you didn't know irradiating disarm is a thing says otherwise.

[Lokidus_Prime]

On 2020-04-14 at 8:00 PM, (PS4)Captain_Bonecold said:

Loki outdated. Having Invisibility as a drain offers Loki a way to stay hidden. Loki default passive outdated. Adding 25 health and shields help loki. Loki outdated. Loki switch teleport ability was rarely used and still is rarely used. 

1.  I actually 100% prefer Loki's time-based invis vs. Ivara's drain.  Recasting invis isn't really an issue since a) if you're in a bad spot and you're invis is about to wear off, you can disarm everything in the area and recast invis while everything's still staggered from said disarm or b) just recast invis in the air/aim-gliding, because, ya know, you're harder to hit while moving.

2. While his passive is generally a little lackluster compared to others, I have found uses for it here and there outside of the odd riven challenge or two - typically when wanting to create my own little sniping spots for one reason or another (some variety from being a beyblade all the time is nice)

3.  Adding 25 more base health/shields will not do much - especially when you should be generally avoiding damage anyway.

4. switch teleport, while a more niche ability, still very much has its uses.  Can't tell you how many times I've switch TP'd someone or myself to get unstuck from something when /unstuck didnt work, or something like an Ambulas getting stuck in weird spots where you couldn't hack them, or hacked drones in PoE, or using it to TP enemies off consoles for things like alarms/lockdown or intercepts.  Back before operators + void mode was the safest strategy to revive someone, I'd use switch TP on someone in bleedout to move em to a safer spot to revive.  Or on that one random dude who just sits right outside of extraction for no reason while everyone else is waiting. It's also something I actually use for my thrall hunts for kuva liches, as when the lich spawns i'll TP enemies to the lich or vice versa to get more enemies converted into thralls.  And of course there's using switch TP as a means of transportation when using it to swap with your decoy/enemies/allies (tho they might not like it lol)... It's a versatile (tho finicky) ability, you just have to recognize good opportunities to use it.

All that said, it doesn't mean Loki's perfect by any means, just that he is still fine at what he does.  I do agree that at the very least, it would be nice if the decoy could get some tweaks so that it doesn't die near instantly from getting breathed on in higher levels, so it can be more effectively used as a distraction. 

It's also worth saying that just because there might be other frames that can do something better or "it's easier to just go and kill it instead", doesn't mean that it isn't an effective strategy.  Sometimes people like using the path of least resistance and/or something where they can just turn their brains off and just go slaughter a bunch of things, which aren't bad things by any means, but it can be fun to also try to mix things up and take different approaches to things which can lead to some, imo, fun and creative tactics - which past all the trickster god stuff, being tactical is basically Loki in a nutshell.

Edited April 18, 2020 by Lokidus_Prime

[selig_fay]

8 hours ago, Lokidus_Prime said:

All that said, it doesn't mean Loki's perfect by any means, just that he is still fine at what he does. I do agree that at the very least, it would be nice if the decoy could get some tweaks so that it doesn't die near instantly from getting breathed on in higher levels, so it can be more effectively used as a distraction.

Well, now there is an invulnerable teleport that makes the decoy invulnerable for 15 seconds, and a tactic where you just hide the decoy out of range of enemy fire and it will still break the AI mobs, because the generation of aggression passes through the walls.

And it has a shieldgate now.

[(PSN)Captain_Bonecold]

13 hours ago, (PS4)cazazombies245 said:

The fact that you didn't know irradiating disarm is a thing says otherwise.

I don't look up every mod. My skills on the battle field does all my talking. Like I said before Ivara,Limbo and Mirage does loki job better. Ivara can pass through barriers with a mod while invisible. Making her more of the master of shape shifting than loki.  Ivara arrows also can distract her enemies. Limbo can banish enemies. Mirage has better illusion powers than loki. Loki been replace.

[(PSN)Captain_Bonecold]

11 hours ago, Lokidus_Prime said:

1.  I actually 100% prefer Loki's time-based invis vs. Ivara's drain.  Recasting invis isn't really an issue since a) if you're in a bad spot and you're invis is about to wear off, you can disarm everything in the area and recast invis while everything's still staggered from said disarm or b) just recast invis in the air/aim-gliding, because, ya know, you're harder to hit while moving.

2. While his passive is generally a little lackluster compared to others, I have found uses for it here and there outside of the odd riven challenge or two - typically when wanting to create my own little sniping spots for one reason or another (some variety from being a beyblade all the time is nice)

3.  Adding 25 more base health/shields will not do much - especially when you should be generally avoiding damage anyway.

4. switch teleport, while a more niche ability, still very much has its uses.  Can't tell you how many times I've switch TP'd someone or myself to get unstuck from something when /unstuck didnt work, or something like an Ambulas getting stuck in weird spots where you couldn't hack them, or hacked drones in PoE, or using it to TP enemies off consoles for things like alarms/lockdown or intercepts.  Back before operators + void mode was the safest strategy to revive someone, I'd use switch TP on someone in bleedout to move em to a safer spot to revive.  Or on that one random dude who just sits right outside of extraction for no reason while everyone else is waiting. It's also something I actually use for my thrall hunts for kuva liches, as when the lich spawns i'll TP enemies to the lich or vice versa to get more enemies converted into thralls.  And of course there's using switch TP as a means of transportation when using it to swap with your decoy/enemies/allies (tho they might not like it lol)... It's a versatile (tho finicky) ability, you just have to recognize good opportunities to use it.

All that said, it doesn't mean Loki's perfect by any means, just that he is still fine at what he does.  I do agree that at the very least, it would be nice if the decoy could get some tweaks so that it doesn't die near instantly from getting breathed on in higher levels, so it can be more effectively used as a distraction. 

It's also worth saying that just because there might be other frames that can do something better or "it's easier to just go and kill it instead", doesn't mean that it isn't an effective strategy.  Sometimes people like using the path of least resistance and/or something where they can just turn their brains off and just go slaughter a bunch of things, which aren't bad things by any means, but it can be fun to also try to mix things up and take different approaches to things which can lead to some, imo, fun and creative tactics - which past all the trickster god stuff, being tactical is basically Loki in a nutshell.

Loki is outdated. A rework is needed. 

[Fellas92]

27 minutes ago, (PS4)Captain_Bonecold said:

Making her more of the master of shape shifting than loki.

I have a feeling you have no idea what shape shifting means. Invisibility =/= Shape shifting. But hey, you're the master here, so who am I to judge.

Edited April 18, 2020 by Fellas92

[Lokidus_Prime]

7 hours ago, zhellon said:

Well, now there is an invulnerable teleport that makes the decoy invulnerable for 15 seconds, and a tactic where you just hide the decoy out of range of enemy fire and it will still break the AI mobs, because the generation of aggression passes through the walls.

And it has a shieldgate now.

Yes, Safe-Guard switch is a massive help in that regard (i need to start using that augment more lol), and the shield gating does help too. 

4 hours ago, (PS4)Captain_Bonecold said:

Loki is outdated. A rework is needed. 

Welp.  The same copy-pasted phrase that was used in several other posts tells me that you probably didn't even bother to read, but ok.

[(PSN)Captain_Bonecold]

23 hours ago, Fellas92 said:

I have a feeling you have no idea what shape shifting means. Invisibility =/= Shape shifting. But hey, you're the master here, so who am I to judge.

Shapeshifting: occurs when a being has the ability to change its shape or being into that of another person,creature,gender, species or entity.

Invisibility: withdrawn from or out of sight. Not visible. Not perceptible by the eye. 

Invisibility doesn't equal Shapeshifting. Please do some research.

[(PSN)Captain_Bonecold]

20 hours ago, Lokidus_Prime said:

Yes, Safe-Guard switch is a massive help in that regard (i need to start using that augment more lol), and the shield gating does help too. 

Welp.  The same copy-pasted phrase that was used in several other posts tells me that you probably didn't even bother to read, but ok.

Ivara,Limbo and Mirage does loki job better. I readed your post. I have all the warframe primes. As of now. Loki still needs a rework. Loki was once a starter warframe. 

[Fellas92]

On 2020-04-12 at 7:08 PM, (PS4)Captain_Bonecold said:

Loki the master of Illusions and shapeshift.

34 minutes ago, (PS4)Captain_Bonecold said:

Shapeshifting: occurs when a being has the ability to change its shape or being into that of another person,creature,gender, species or entity.

Invisibility: withdrawn from or out of sight. Not visible. Not perceptible by the eye. 

Invisibility doesn't equal Shapeshifting. Please do some research.

Amazing. No wonder my Loki could turn into a tree, now it all makes sense ! But according to you Ivara does it better, so I'll just morph her into a sheep or something.

P.S. The definition of =/= is "Not equal to". That's what I've said literally.

Edited April 19, 2020 by Fellas92

[(NSW)Matt-S]

Loki could do with a touch-up, but a rework is something he doesn't need. He does his job perfectly and isn't really "weak". Not sure why Ivara, Limbo and Mirage are your points of comparison as they do different things. His direct competition is actually Octavia, who is arguably much better, but the issue there (in my opinion) is that Octavia is busted.

A buff to Decoy and doing something with Switch Teleport is all he'd really need.

[(PSN)Captain_Bonecold]

On 2020-04-19 at 12:38 PM, Fellas92 said:

Amazing. No wonder my Loki could turn into a tree, now it all makes sense ! But according to you Ivara does it better, so I'll just morph her into a sheep or something.

P.S. The definition of =/= is "Not equal to". That's what I've said literally.

How many lokis I see in spymissons 0. How many Ivara? 1-full party. Loki been replaced. Invisibility Ivara. Distraction Ivara,Limbo and Mirage. Why use loki when his abilities are weaker than those 3? Ivara Invisibility better. 

P.S. Sniper Rifle+Ivara invisibility can 1 shot enemies. Stealth shot.  I can also sneak revive allies. 

Edited April 24, 2020 by (PS4)Captain_Bonecold

[(PSN)xstatic900]

On 2020-04-23 at 7:18 PM, (PS4)Captain_Bonecold said:

How many lokis I see in spymissons 0.

You run public spy missions... and then figure that you don't see a loki so loki must be weak.  Derp.  Loki is a stealth speed runner frame.  Loki players do spy missions solo because it can be done faster than in a pub with a full group of ivaras. 

[(PSN)Captain_Bonecold]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)xstatic900 said:

You run public spy missions... and then figure that you don't see a loki so loki must be weak.  Derp.  Loki is a stealth speed runner frame.  Loki players do spy missions solo because it can be done faster than in a pub with a full group of ivaras. 

If you want speed us gauss. Fastest warframe. Ivara can bypass barriers. I can do spy missions with frost and saryn. 

[(PSN)xstatic900]

I said stealth speed.  Gauss isn't stealthy.  Volt has been faster than loki since the beginning, so its not like this is some new thing.

If you can do spy missions with frost and saryn, then why do you bring Ivara?  Because although ivara is slow, she is faster than Frost and Saryn at spy missions.  Loki is faster.  Loki can also bypass barriers.

Just today I played with a Loki in the sortie rescue.  Perfect mission for him.

 

[Madway7]

On 2020-04-19 at 12:58 PM, (NSW)Matt-S said:

A buff to Decoy and doing something with Switch Teleport is all he'd really need.

I was thinking that Switch Teleport could switch with decoy regardless of LOS or distance if you hold the ability

Ofc course you would need to get a short invul after that tho.

[selig_fay]

12 hours ago, (PS4)xstatic900 said:

If you can do spy missions with frost and saryn, then why do you bring Ivara? Because although ivara is slow, she is faster than Frost and Saryn at spy missions. Loki is faster. Loki can also bypass barriers.

Each player has an operator who has the same speed as Ivara. xD

[taiiat]

• Decoy might as well not have a Duration since it has Health, and has a Threat Level of 4 or 5. sure.
• Invisibility doesn't need to be an Energy Drain, doing it differently than how some other Warframes handle their Invisibility Ability is fine. different styles.
• Switch Teleport is a great Utility tool, i don't know what you're talking about. if you add some Cast Speed Mod(s), Loki can move long distances faster than almost every Warframe, by virtue of Teleporting up to roughly 190 Meters at a time. convenient repositioning in confined spaces, and quick movement in open ones.
• what... exactly does Disarm benefit from by giving it more Damage? like sure, giving it more Damage would help with Leveling Loki, so that you can get some Ability Kills for that sweet XP Share - but as far as Combat use goes, doesn't really have one.
  • also Irradiating Disarm exists and it's really great. since the special type of "Radiation Status' it applies scales with Duration.

Loki is popularly chosen for... you guessed it, Mission situations where manipulating the Enemy with Utilities is desired.

[Avienas]

1 hour ago, taiiat said:

• Decoy might as well not have a Duration since it has Health, and has a Threat Level of 4 or 5. sure.
• Invisibility doesn't need to be an Energy Drain, doing it differently than how some other Warframes handle their Invisibility Ability is fine. different styles.
• Switch Teleport is a great Utility tool, i don't know what you're talking about. if you add some Cast Speed Mod(s), Loki can move long distances faster than almost every Warframe, by virtue of Teleporting up to roughly 190 Meters at a time. convenient repositioning in confined spaces, and quick movement in open ones.
• what... exactly does Disarm benefit from by giving it more Damage? like sure, giving it more Damage would help with Leveling Loki, so that you can get some Ability Kills for that sweet XP Share - but as far as Combat use goes, doesn't really have one.
  • also Irradiating Disarm exists and it's really great. since the special type of "Radiation Status' it applies scales with Duration.

Loki is popularly chosen for... you guessed it, Mission situations where manipulating the Enemy with Utilities is desired.

Sheesh i spotted a post that is rather active despite being over 2 weeks old and felt like poking in.

Lets be honest, plenty of warframes that fall under the SQUISH factor(Remember Ember & Vauban?) needed a stat revamp at the very least and Loki is not as overloaded as frames like Octavia & Ivara who have so many absurd levels of use. Despite ORIGINALLY being a starter frame where stats were a heck of alot lower back then and the game was not as much of a hoarde killing simulator by then, its clear to say that Loki needs plenty of fixes, in both overhauls, revamps, QoLs and more. Loki lost the starter frame excuse and Volt who is absolutely broken as EFF for many reasons took his place.

At the very least some of these things definitely need to occur:

• Decoy, needs to get a huge durability boost, like 3-5x what it currently rocks as a base and maybe have duration give a scaling multiplier on that duration since unless they want to gimp loki by suddenly making his kit require power strength, he should have his abilities get scalings based on duration in place of what normally would be power strength in a number of things.
• Invisibility, definitely does not need a energy drain, but it certainly needs more to it and a chonkier duration base to it. Maybe have an extra 3-6 seconds to the base and throw in a mobility speed bonus to boot. Plus frocking get rid of that annoying filter that can be rather annoying to look thru, i do not appreciate having to go to options to toggle such a thing because D.E. has yet to gone thru all the warframes to give them QoL minor fixes/additions. Plus its not that hard for them to increase a digit and stack a MOVEMENT speed bonus to Loki`s Parkour and Sprint speed, since if i recall correctly, he used to have some kind of damage multiplier while invisible as part of his invisibility ability back in the early days or something along those lines.
• Switch teleport, Not everyone plays keyboard and sets up macros or learn complicated maneuvers when you need to thread a needle to switch teleport to the right target, especially in a very action oriented game, this aint a pvp arena like overwatch so its not that useful as you might say it is, when it LITERALLY only scales off of power range. Thing honestly could just be merged with Decoy or Invisibiity, but for simplicity sake, i will just suggest improvements to it. Add a little bit of a invulnerability period after a switch teleport for you and if you use it on a warframe ally and some things need to be added to it. Because at this point its just a glorified SUPER JUMP for Loki, highly situational and honestly obsolete, since you would be better off just having you go invisible with +500% move speed as you send a spookie ghost that can freely fly around super fast and then pressing the ability again to immediately teleport to the said spot.
• Radial Disarm, seriously, lets just merge irradiating disarm into this thing and make the AUGMENT causes like 50% of the enemy armor & shields to be stripped. Least then you have a bunch of enemies beating eachother with the melee weapons and even for those who CANT have melee will focus on enemies. Where the augment makes them fragile enough so thar poopie poor dps can do SOME dps. Better yet, also said merged radiation proc able to apply 3 radiation procs and scales off of duration so a 200% loki would cause enemies to have 6 radiation debuff stacks so they start dealing rather big damage to eachother.

Besides the fact Loki could honestly deserve a base increase to around 200 health and armor and bring the max ver to around 300~350, to help balance out the fact that LOKI is on the lower end of the armor, he still needs a stronger identity then a guy who can throw a fragile distraction, pop a vanilla invisibility, swap teleport with something and no other catches to it and can make SOME enemies only use melee attacks, When most are likely dead before that disarm can even show any use cause explosive weapons exist.

Honestly, i would rather Loki`s disarm work as some kind of echo effect where when a enemy dies it will proc its disarm to nearby enemies from said corpse so it can chain into some long lasting useful effect, plus have the invisibility and switch teleport merged into one and also have the merged ability allow Loki to disguise himself as enemies and can easily flip into stealth kills even on enemies thru the disguise, long as your disguise was not compromised by a living enemy seeing you killing one of thar allies or something.

Edited April 27, 2020 by Avienas

[taiiat]

26 minutes ago, Avienas said:

Decoy, needs to get a huge durability boost, like 3-5x what it currently rocks as a base and maybe have duration give a scaling multiplier on that duration since unless they want to gimp loki by suddenly making his kit require power strength, he should have his abilities get scalings based on duration in place of what normally would be power strength in a number of things.

shrug, the feature i'm hoping for more is for Decoy to be able to apply Status Effects with its Gun, or Stagger the Enemy it is shooting at, or maybe something more unique like suppressing whichever Enemy the Decoy is currently shooting at.
more Health - i'd rather just reduce the Energy Cost. could be a 10E Ability.

and the Abilities should get something useful from Strength. having Strength related features added isn't a bad thing, it just adds more options. everyones' favorite comparison, Ivara - well, her Abilities have Strength related benefits, and you don't see anyone complaining that the Warframe is unusable.

33 minutes ago, Avienas said:

Invisibility, definitely does not need a energy drain, but it certainly needs more to it and a chonkier duration base to it. Maybe have an extra 3-6 seconds to the base and throw in a mobility speed bonus to boot.

 if i recall correctly, he used to have some kind of damage multiplier while invisible as part of his invisibility ability back in the early days or something along those lines.

meh, the Duration is fine. a Mobility Bonus, hmm. sure, okay. i'd buy a 20% Movement/Sprint Bonus while Invisibility is active.

it was never anything special to Invisibility - being Invisible for any reason used to force the Melee Stealth Multiplier. thesedays it doesn't force it, you're just more eligible because Enemies can easily lose awareness of you.

39 minutes ago, Avienas said:

Switch teleport, Not everyone plays keyboard and sets up macros or learn complicated maneuvers when you need to thread a needle to switch teleport to the right target, especially in a very action oriented game

could just be merged with Decoy or Invisibiity

Add a little bit of a invulnerability period after a switch teleport for you and if you use it on a warframe ally

at this point its just a glorified SUPER JUMP for Loki, highly situational and honestly obsolete, since you would be better off just having you go invisible with +500% move speed as you send a spookie ghost that can freely fly around super fast and then pressing the ability again to immediately teleport to the said spot.

you are YEARS late on that complaint. targeted Abilities already all have Aim Assist.

it could be merged with Decoy i guess, but you'd need a useful and appropriate Ability to replace Switch Teleport. and then there's also the complication that you'd be adding a Hold Cast which is slow compared to normal Casting.

while there's already an Augment for that, sure, i'd be open to adding a 500ms Invulnerability to Switch Teleport, so long as it had a few second Cooldown or so.

Super Jump gained you 10-20 Meters of distance, Switch Teleport lets you(or something else that is an Ally) go hundreds. obsolete is a silly thing to say.
no, mostly copying Will-o-Wisp is not better than Switch Teleport. you can move hundreds of Meters instantaneously, Will-o-Wisp takes a while to get there. 6x Movement Speed is nothing compared to Teleporting to a designated position, especially since it can be of any Elevation relative to yourself, you don't have to be able to walk to that position to Teleport to it.

47 minutes ago, Avienas said:

Radial Disarm, seriously, lets just merge irradiating disarm into this thing

since Irradiating Disarm is stronger than just a Radiation Status Effect (in terms of Duration), that might be a strong request.

if one wanted to introduce a new feature to Disarm i'd certainly consider it, but it depends on what it is. whether it's actually something new, if it'll end up being useful but not too convenient, Et Cetera.

 

 

 

51 minutes ago, Avienas said:

Besides the fact Loki could honestly deserve a base increase to around 200 health and armor

make SOME enemies only use melee attacks, When most are likely dead before that disarm can even show any use cause explosive weapons exist.

allow Loki to disguise himself as enemies and can easily flip into stealth kills even on enemies thru the disguise, long as your disguise was not compromised by a living enemy seeing you killing one of thar allies or something.

why exactly does Loki 'deserve' to have more Health than any other Warframe in the game except for Grendel and Inaros? huh.
and similarly why would it make sense for Loki to have above average Armor.
Loki doesn't really need generic Survivability Stats much, which is the point of the Warframe, but if anything, i'd increase Shields before anything else. since Shields are a temporary buffer to let you shake off Damage... which is a lot more thematic for a 'Tricker' than Health is.

the generally desired result of Disarm is to remove Ranged Damage from Enemies. you should know this if you're going to talk about Loki.
with a secondary feature being a lazy way to cluster Enemies via making them chase high Threat Level things to a central point.

see, there's a potentially interesting Ability, and something that could be interesting to put in the Slot Switch Teleport is in, provided that a Hold Cast can feel good on any of the other Abilities in terms of agile Movement.
maybe putting it on Invisibility is indeed the better choice, tap Cast to Switch Teleport, and Hold Cast to go Invisible. could call it 'Subvert' or something.

[Avienas]

1 hour ago, taiiat said:

-snip-

Sorry i was in half ramble tangent, kind of meant shield instead of armor, but since i am getting rather fired up let me poke out a nice way to change his passive, merge Decoy & Switch teleport, enhanced invisibility, introduce a VERY useful cornerstone third ability and tune the 4th ability into something nice. Still stand by my statement he needs a good chonk more health atleast, so he is not so squishie, least boost his 75 base health & 225 at max to 100 and 300 so it matches up to another squishie frame without his kit active, Vauban.
 

• NEW PASSIVE- Trickery: When Loki casts an ability, he gains a +10% increase to sprint speed & parkour speed for 10 seconds, stacking up to 3 times for a max of +30% mobility & a cap of 30 seconds. 

Note: Gives him a real passive, how many people even do wall latches and how many even do it for longer then 1-3 seconds anyway? Besides, we got Monkeys with 3 free rezzes and a buff each time, A Maestro who causes energy regen every time she uses an ability and NOW a fairy queen which not only kept her bullet jump & distance roll bonus, but now gives a minor regen buff for nearby allies just whenever she casts an ability. Frames gotta have something chonky for passives these times and why not let Loki get to capitalize on being VERY mobile while he is slinging trickery about?

• UPDATED  & MERGED ABILITY 1 & 3- Decoy & Switch Teleport: When Loki has his reticle on a target, a circle will appear (similar to Wisp`s), by tapping the ability, he will perform switch teleport. By push and holding the button, Loki will create a Decoy instead, just a few meters away from him, and does not require a target. Said decoy has HIGH durability that would either gain additional durability based on duration OR has a chance to ignore damage for 2 or a few seconds(Fixed) when proc`d with a cooldown of several or so seconds, with proc chance based on duration. Said Decoy will imitate your primary weapon(if non-applicable, will use secondary instead, if non-application, will use a Lex instead). Decoy will attack enemy units within its general fixed radius and have a 50% chance(fixed) to proc a DECEIVE debuff(Unique to Loki) on them, but cannot apply DECIEVE to that unit again for 20 seconds, prioritizing a different enemy instead. Any enemies with DECEIVE on them, will prioritize attacking nearby enemy units and lasts for 6 seconds(Scales off of Loki`s power duration). 

Note: Sounds a cluttered, but the idea is to make Switch teleport the snap ability while Decoy is the setup one, Plus give the decoy some survivability plus since loki LACKS damage and we got warframes with 1 abilities that are so overtuned like Wisps`s freaking mote dispenser, it gives loki quite a bit of space to work with, So why not introduce him to a unique debuff gimmick, similar to how Atlas can turn enemies into rock, as a unique form of freezing enemies.

• UPDATED ABILITY 2- Invisibility but better: Loki can recast this ability even while invisible and gains a small aura range where enemies cannot see allies getting attacked unless close enough to spot it(range of how close enemies need to be scales with range %, so more range equals enemies have to be more closer to see). In addition, if Loki kills a enemy while under Invisibility, the body will evaporate similar to a radiation proc, leaving no traces for enemies to get alerted to, with any weapon he makes use of. The Fog of war effect will not work on fully alerted enemies.

Note: Seriously, we got frames with more absurd invisibility measures out of the whazoo, tied to one ability. Atleast Loki could get something extra, that lets him up-keep invisibility while letting him enjoy that old CHANNEL attack gimmick of erasing bodies, but applies to all weapons he uses. Plus having the unique gag where he can apply a distance fog of war like effect based on his ability range stat would give him more of a nice feel, instead of encroaching on frames like Ash who just spams Fatal teleport like a nut job to yeet things dead.

• UPDATED ABILITY 4- Making this ability more useful against all enemies: Applies DECEIVE to enemies within range, while also granting 3 stacks of radiation debuff to the affected enemies. If a enemy with this effect dies while the effect is active, then enemies near them will gain additional radiation stacks and refresh the duration of the radiation effect, based on whatever radiation stacks the killed enemy had.

Note: Pretty much sounds simple and rather weak, but try to remember. DISARM is USELESS in most cases, especially infested & several robotics enemies and even some grineer. Better to just have a UNIQUE radiation effect which will have enemies ALWAYS focus on each other and having Loki able to apply radiation thru his Decoy`s 1 and Disarm, so they are actually using spiked bats against ONLY each-other then trying to tickle anything nearby with some sticks, which can actually still do some decent damage against warframes, for those who actually lost thar dang guns.

• NEW ABILITY 3- Aka might be OP in some ways but for now im calling it; Apprehension Deed: BASIC idea, it relies on what ability is used after it, usually coming off as enhancing the ability or giving a unique buff in the case of using itself with it. AKA the following:
  • Enhancing Ability 1 with Apprehension Deed- If loki uses Switch teleport on an ally with this enhancement, both you and the ally will gain a Conspicuous buff, which will drastically lower target priority on both of you, causing enemies to prioritize others instead more, Aka great to make more fragile allies less targeted, while making tankier allies more of a priority. If Loki uses Decoy with this enhancement, Decoy will now ALSO have a high chance to apply radiation stacks on enemies it shoots and when ever it applies deceive it has a high chance to ALSO apply deceive to enemies near the enemy who received the deceive(ignores the application cooldown for direct deceive via the first ability)
  • Enhancing Ability 2 with Apprehension Deed-  If Loki uses Invisibility with this enhancement, Loki will instead gain a DISGUISE form, which will make all enemies see them as an ally unit. While Disguised, Loki may use stealth finishers on enemies even when they are on semi-solid alert level, Loki can go back to normal invisibility by using the ability without the enhancement, but if a enemy sees Loki killing a enemy while disguised, whether its cause they are fully alert to ignore the fog from invis or they are close enough while unaware or semi-alert. Then the cover is basically blown and best for Loki to go reg invisible ASAP, Aka this is best for forcing stealth finishers on more enemy types.
  • Enhancing Ability 4 with Apprehension Deed- If Loki uses `the new ver of Radial Disarm` with this enhancement, Enemies hit by the Disarm will receive ENHANCED decieve instead, which applies the same effects, but any enemies who attack each other will also remove armor/shields equal to a percentage per stack of radiation the enemy has, which the percentage value is fixed per stack, but can go up to the maximum removal amount with repeated hits, but the duration length is based on Loki`s duration. Enemies cannot remove armor/shields from the same unit more then once every 1~ second.
  • Enhancing ITSELF with Apprehension Deed- AKA, Loki giving himself a fun new buff based on the recent status chance changes, Loki gains a special effect to all his weapons while active, where whenever he applies a Status effect, he will have a CHANCE, to enhance the existing stack count of SAID effect that had the proc occurred, Where in the case for say slash, would just increase the existing tick damage`s count. Lets say it ups the amount by 30%, rounded up, or whatever the existing stack is. Ultimately, it would be a neat way for Loki to have a nice offensive indirect boon by speeding up status proc debuffs, Though it would have a slight cooldown of maybe 1-3 seconds to help regulate it a little so its not too absurd.

ANYWAY, sorry for the long wall of text, but this just my kind of way of seeing Loki in a much more fun fashion by having him SERIOUSLY double down on the deception abilities, even if i probably made it sound rather overpowered, despite the fact i tried to 100% make every single ability not apply direct damage in any way WHATSOEVER, But eh, we have alot of new warframes with either insanely broken single abilities or a kit so ridiculously over-tuned with synergy & effects, its just unfair that many older frames have not got tapped by a bit of QoL atleast, Especially those who have passives which are rather bad in comparison, like how Loki`s current passive is just additional wall latch time.

Edited April 27, 2020 by Avienas

[taiiat]

3 minutes ago, Avienas said:

When Loki casts an ability, he gains a +10% increase to sprint speed & parkour speed for 10 seconds, stacking up to 3 times

okay. no need to remove the innate Patagium, can just add this on as a Passive.

5 minutes ago, Avienas said:

Said Decoy will imitate your primary weapon(if non-applicable, will use secondary instead, if non-application, will use a Lex instead). Decoy will attack enemy units within sight and have a 50% chance(fixed) to proc a DECEIVE debuff(Unique to Loki) on them, but cannot apply DECIEVE to that unit again for 20 seconds, prioritizing a different enemy instead. Any enemies with DECEIVE on them, will prioritize attacking nearby enemy units and lasts for 6 seconds(Scales off of Loki`s power duration). 

that sounds like Decoy will suddenly turn into a Damage Ability, which i don't think fits the theme of the Warframe that well. the Warframe is a Subverter, an Infiltrator, and a Deceiver.
also this custom debuff seems strange to me. why would Decoy just looking at an Enemy make it attack others nearby? it's not a bad feature, it just doesn't make much sense.

7 minutes ago, Avienas said:

if Loki kills a enemy while under Invisibility, the body will evaporate similar to a radiation proc, leaving no traces for enemies to get alerted to, with any weapon he makes use of.

i like that part.

8 minutes ago, Avienas said:

DISARM is USELESS in most cases, especially infested & several robotics enemies and even some grineer.

it actually isn't - Disarm removes the Weapons from Infested MOA's for one, impairs Ancients, Damages light Infested (just mentioning features). sure, Melee Enemies don't really lose anything but it's fine that not 100% of foes are affected, it has strong results versus all Factions. and the effect can't be Nullified afterwards, either. if they lost their Weapon or had an Ability stripped, it's gone, permanently.

that being said i did just now have an interesting thought - perhaps Disarm could temporarily disable Eximus Auras.

13 minutes ago, Avienas said:

Apprehension Deed: BASIC idea, it relies on what ability is used after it, usually coming off as enhancing the ability or giving a unique buff in the case of using itself with it.

i'm sure you mean well, but chances are i'd rarely use an Ability like that. one that serves only as a pre-buff to something i do later.
i already don't like that about Gauss, that you use Gauss by Casting Redline as soon as you Spawn, to have it on the for the entire Mission. that just doesn't really feel like an Ability to me at that point, but rather feels like a hassle.

[Avienas]

3 hours ago, taiiat said:

-snip-

that sounds like Decoy will suddenly turn into a Damage Ability, which i don't think fits the theme of the Warframe that well. the Warframe is a Subverter, an Infiltrator, and a Deceiver.
also this custom debuff seems strange to me. why would Decoy just looking at an Enemy make it attack others nearby? it's not a bad feature, it just doesn't make much sense.

Its called a INDIRECT damage ability. We all know that even if you had 2 groups of enemies fight eachother with similar enemy types and levels, they would likely take forever to get killed anyway. Which gets rather disporitional when we start mixing in sentients and railjack specific grineer like the kosma ones.

The idea is basically a UNIQUE radiation debuff that makes enemies prioritize each other while also taking advantage of things like radiation procs to make them better at dealing damage against eachother. But lets be honest, you could have 10 stacks of radiation on the enemies and it would matter little unless you strip the armor/shields off the enemies to let them actually have a chance to beat eachother to death.

Again, its more of a gimmick to make enemies too busy messing with each other and able to chip away at themselves. Plus Loki is about deception, he is not some basic spy as far as i would see what his kit could be like and how he needs to get pushed on a stronger identity on his whole entire theme, so it only makes sense that he gets abilities that work alongside his ability of being out of sight and causing a mess of things in the process, Which why not have said abilities work under causing a mess and letting him enhance his abilities to cause mischief when he is not just simply being the speed running simple sneak boi, Because even the more recent `stealth frames` got either map wide c.c. measures or so many gadgets in a single ability, they basically have around 7 or more abilities when counted up, Which in Ivara`s case, every single one of them has a very strong use for them.

Plus do not state something like NYX is the chaos bringer, because she is the psychic type frame which just suffered some slight identity crisis issues to boot and only reason she is called such was cause she was mostly used for CHAOS, when having the enemy map under radiation back in the day was considered good c.c., where the rest of the kit, especially back in the day, was mostly fluff and the 4th was basically just a way to cheese particular content like the final portion of the Law of Retribution raid.

3 hours ago, taiiat said:

it actually isn't - Disarm removes the Weapons from Infested MOA's for one, impairs Ancients, Damages light Infested (just mentioning features). sure, Melee Enemies don't really lose anything but it's fine that not 100% of foes are affected, it has strong results versus all Factions. and the effect can't be Nullified afterwards, either. if they lost their Weapon or had an Ability stripped, it's gone, permanently.

At the very least, it would be more op if Loki could shut off nullifiers and even eximus units, Though it would be nice if they TWEAK`d it so units that have no gun or cannot normally have `guns turned off`, would instead suffer mobility hindrance, similar to impairing units like Ancients. Very least, i still stand by my statement that so many newer frames have such overloaded kit and if Vauban could have his Vortex & Bastille merged into one skill and then he gets some ridiculous high damaging nuke cannon to take the 3rd ability, I honestly see no problem with them merging some augments to be innate extra effects for warframes with very bog poor standard abilities, that really need more to them, Where new augments could be put in place.

...But seriously, Radial Disarm is the only ability Loki has that has damage and that honestly should just get removed for the sake of pointless damage, when you got frames like Vauban and even Protea having abilities that deal damage that SCALES with enemy level. Pretty much unless your a Ember`s 4th which has an absurdly ridiculous damage base, most of the warframe damage centric abilities are obsolete in most cases.

3 hours ago, taiiat said:

i'm sure you mean well, but chances are i'd rarely use an Ability like that. one that serves only as a pre-buff to something i do later.
i already don't like that about Gauss, that you use Gauss by Casting Redline as soon as you Spawn, to have it on the for the entire Mission. that just doesn't really feel like an Ability to me at that point, but rather feels like a hassle.

The idea is more of a fun quirk gag which stems from the same gag as how D.E. has been LOVING to give toggle type abilities or two in one abilities for a while, especially to more recent frames. PROTEA being a fine example on this, since she frocking is getting a shrapnel grenade AND some kind of buffer grenade in one.

I would likely shift a few ideas around if i thought about it a bit, but the basic idea is an ability which tweaks the other abilities, likely to have a different use on them or a more enhanced version. The whole gag with having Loki able to run a buff that lets him rush out multi stacks of status buffs while he is applying them. Was just my fun idea of giving Loki something for offensive use then being 100% stuck with anything useful in combat outside of distraction based abilities, which in most cases, are even more pointless then everything on a Gauss`s ability list, Which lets be honest, Gauss is part of the many number of frames which were made with a silly GIMMICK for its theme and D.E. did not design it well.

But seriously, once again, the idea for that 3rd ability was to be more of an easier way then some silly toggle thru push/hold or tab and then do the opposite to toss whatever effect it is down. Since the thing with Loki last i checked, is your not going to be spamming the abilities non-stop like some particular idiots will do with warframe abilities, instead of weaving them in with other things instead. But again, as for the enhance versions, you would not be constantly activating them to perpetually keep them up, You would have something to make enemies focus on other things more, an ability for super sneaking, an ability that lets Loki actually have an ability to work with DPS, but would be mostly useful on dealing with durable enemies that you need to spray status effects on and lastly making that 4th ability function a tad better by letting the grunts beat the armor/shields outta eachother for you instead if you having to do it yourself.

Anyway enough replying on this since its just getting silly overall.

[taiiat]

9 hours ago, Avienas said:

Its called a INDIRECT damage ability.

wait, slow down. i think i didn't trim that Quote as much as i should have to make it clear what i was talking about.
giving Loki a copy of your Weapon(s) sounded like it would turn into a Damage Ability. if you mean just Cosmetically then alright, but i interpreted that as a clone of your Gun and ergo Decoy would inherit upwards of 6 digit DPS. that's what doesn't seem to match Loki to me.
then the second part that 'Deceive' sounded like Decoy basically looking at an Enemy would make him think his Allies are hostile to him, even if the Decoy is shooting at that Enemy, i don't see the logic for it.

9 hours ago, Avienas said:

Though it would be nice if they TWEAK`d it so units that have no gun or cannot normally have `guns turned off`, would instead suffer mobility hindrance, similar to impairing units like Ancients.

perhaps, but i'd like to insist that Disarm doesn't need to affect every Enemy Type, for it already affects most - and since there's dozens of Enemies in every Combat scenario, that means Disarm is still always strongly useful even if it doesn't affect every single Enemy Type.
not that it shouldn't, but that not doing so doesn't really harm it much.

 

 

9 hours ago, Avienas said:

 Which lets be honest, Gauss is part of the many number of frames which were made with a silly GIMMICK for its theme and D.E. did not design it well.

Redline feels forced in, but Gauss is a pretty... convenient Warframe to say the least. he does his job well - invulnerable to common Damage Types, fast, and high AoE Damage.
that's pretty much what your average Mission needs anyways.

[Avienas]

7 hours ago, taiiat said:

wait, slow down. i think i didn't trim that Quote as much as i should have to make it clear what i was talking about.
giving Loki a copy of your Weapon(s) sounded like it would turn into a Damage Ability. if you mean just Cosmetically then alright, but i interpreted that as a clone of your Gun and ergo Decoy would inherit upwards of 6 digit DPS. that's what doesn't seem to match Loki to me.

And here i am again to do some small corrections since clearly i was not literal enough on ends: The idea is that it would be firing non-damaging projectiles, based on what gun you had in that slot. Basically having an extra in-direct method of using say a rapid fire rifle to capitalize on being able to have a chance to apply the deceive effect whenever the `decoy bullets` hit them, which would not cause damage, just a special debuff effect. Though honestly it could just have the Loki continue using a lex and maybe have some fancy gag of scaling how fast it can fire that lex aka the debuff bullets based on some other scaling effect like power strength.

Too used to people assuming an illusion can suddenly become a turret that can deal damage, despite still being called a decoy. If you want the simple version:

• Loki`s decoy uses the same gun as Loki, but it does not deal damage, use any of the special features of the gun or apply any effects attached to the gun, INSTEAD, the decoy has a chance while shooting at enemies to apply a DECEIVE debuff, which causes enemies to be under a similar debuff to radiation, but instead they prioritize a friendly fire to any of thar allies within a close enough range.

Quote

perhaps, but i'd like to insist that Disarm doesn't need to affect every Enemy Type, for it already affects most - and since there's dozens of Enemies in every Combat scenario, that means Disarm is still always strongly useful even if it doesn't affect every single Enemy Type.
not that it shouldn't, but that not doing so doesn't really harm it much.

Seriously, have you SEEN how absurd some reworked/new warframe abilities are these days? If Loki does not get alot more accessibility in his kit, Especially to update extremely niche effects, then Loki is still going to be part of the same crew of warframes that have 2 or even 3 abilties which you might as well never use ever, Im still sad they have yet to update Frost for example who needs a QoL so he is more then just the the guy who puts down ice bubbles and his 4th being able to armor strip, kind of is poorly designed in many ways, That it honestly might as well just perma stick enemies in a frozen status with a fixed duration and just straight up strip enemy armor, similar to mag`s magnetize and what not

Quote

Redline feels forced in, but Gauss is a pretty... convenient Warframe to say the least. he does his job well - invulnerable to common Damage Types, fast, and high AoE Damage.
that's pretty much what your average Mission needs anyways.

Gauss is still part of the meme frame pile, he appeals to certain people, but most of his kit is not that impressive and some of it is kind of useless in closed areas, except those who try to intentionally make it work, but end up wasting a bunch of time doing so, while everyone else is already at extraction, playing the shazwin.

If you need a fast frame with utility, you could just honestly use Volt for better control or even just run a Loki and let his glorious high base sprint speed help him teach this generation how the old farts raced thru the solar maps back in the day.~

Edited April 28, 2020 by Avienas