Game Breaking Void Relic Rewards

[Trax_Runner]

Void Relics .. their drop rates and rewards - this issue is probably my biggest beef with Warframe. Don't get me wrong, I love the game and it is up there as one of the 3 games I play the most and will always keep coming back to. However, the incredible grindiness of trying to get prime parts completely destroys this game for the solo player. Why not just Rad Share I hear you ask - because I have absolutely horrendous internet and I wouldn't want to impose that on anyone else. Warframe is unique ... it is the only game I know of where, right in the middle of a mission, I can completely Disconnect, have massive internet failure, and this wonderful game will still let me finish the mission and then try and fix my connection issues so that the mission results will flow through to my account. No other online game lets me do that.

But like I said, I wouldn't want to impose my problems on anyone else by hosting a rad share relic run ... and so most of my Warframe experience is solo. AND I CAN TELL YOU FIRST HAND THAT TRYING TO GET PRIME PARTS IS EXCEEDINGLY DIFFICULT WHEN YOU DO NOT HAVE THE OPTION TO RAD SHARE AVAILABLE TO YOU!!!

Lets take Ivara Prime Systems as an example shall we. I farm the interception mission Xini, on Eris for that elusive Axi A9 relic. It took me 2 days of exclusively running that mission to get 'enough' Axi A9's to even think of trying for Ivara Prime's systems ... and by enough, I need about 8 to have any chance at all to get what should be the one of the 2 most common drops from a fully upgraded radiant Axi A9. Why 8, well, ideally I probably need more, but with an MR of 14, this sits nicely with the amount of void traces I will have ... 800.

If I start from scratch for my void traces, I will need another day of farming them to have enough of the to fully upgrade my  eight Axi A9's ... so that's 3 days of grinding (luckily I have some time off from work atm, so that is 3 full days of grinding Warframe ... doing nothing else but trying to get what should be fairly achievable relic reward).

However, I did not get Ivara Prime Systems to drop from them ... another full day of farming Xini and Void Traces gave me 3 more Axi A9's ... of which I have upgraded and used 2. So lets look at my results;

3 Gram Prime Blades

1 Lex Prime Blue Print

2 Rubico Prime Stock

3 Akbronco Prime Links

1 Atlas Prime Neuroptics

In a sense, I was 'lucky' to get the Atlas Prime drop, as normally I would expect me to have to do at least 12 runs to be able to get a rare component to drop ... but having gone to the trouble of fully upgrading my relics and still receive 60% of my rewards to be common is ......... disappointing. If this was an isolated case, you could say its just a bad run, but trust me, if you are unfortunate enough not to be able to rad share, this is normal.

I am sitting here writing this post because I am procrastinating ... I am also currently logged into Warframe with yet another fully upgraded Radiant Axi A9 in my inventory and I am staring at it thinking 'do I dare try running it now' ... 'maybe if I wait till my connection is better it might give me a better result' ... 'surely there must be more to this game to get the missing prime part I need' ... 'am I staring down the barrel of yet another day of wasted farming trying to get Ivara Prime's Systems'.

I appreciate that, for things to be valuable, they most be hard to get, but surely 4 full days of constant farming should be enough for what should be one of the 2 most common drops from a fully upgraded radiant Void Relic.

Even if I had the internet connection I desired, I actually enjoy playing this game solo, and being ham-fisted and force-fed into running rad share relic runs would degrade this game in my eyes.

So I have a proposal that, hopefully isn't game breaking ... why not expand the amount that you can upgrade a void relic one more level, take it past radiant to something better, something that limits the possible rewards to either uncommon or rare, but make its cost in void traces exponentially higher as well.

I would suggest that the rewards of this new, fully upgraded relic be split evenly straight down the middle at 33%, but that its cost in terms of void traces be twice that of a radiant at 200 void traces. That way, the most efficient way to get the prime parts you want would still be running rad share relic runs, but for those poor saps amongst us for whom this isn't an option, there is an alternative ... something that still requires and immense amount of farming to get a viable amount of void traces ...

BUT DOESNT LEAVE YOU WITH 60% OF YOUR REWARDS BEING SOMETHING YOU WOULD HAVE ODRINARILY GOT IF YOU DIDNT GO TO THE TROUBLE OF SPENDING A WHOLE GOD-DAMNED FREAKING DAY OF FARMING VOID TRACES TO GET!!!

Well, with that rant over and done with, there is nothing else for me do do but close my eyes and pray that this Radiant Axi is 'the one', the one that drops what I need, otherwise it will be another day of farming to get it to drop from Xini and to get enough void traces to upgrade it to Radiant ... 5 whole days of solid farming, of doing nothing else but farming, just to get what should be one of the 2 most most common rewards from a Radiant Relic ... mmm, game breaking, wasted time, crushing - not things that you really want in a game is it ...

 

 

[GnarlsDarkley]

30 minutes ago, Trax_Runner said:

If I start from scratch for my void traces, I will need another day of farming them to have enough of the to fully upgrade my  eight Axi A9's ... so that's 3 days of grinding (luckily I have some time off from work atm, so that is 3 full days of grinding Warframe ... doing nothing else but trying to get what should be fairly achievable relic reward).

However, I did not get Ivara Prime Systems to drop from them ... another full day of farming Xini and Void Traces gave me 3 more Axi A9's ... of which I have upgraded and used 2. So lets look at my results;

This is an online game after all. You have the opportunity to trade and it is intended to do so. Instead of "wasting your time" trying to get one specific part run any Relic you have, sell the parts you don't need and just buy the missing part.

I was like you 3 years ago...and oh boy was it a good decision to change my behaviour to the above!

[Trax_Runner]

Result of Radiant Axi A9 number 11 ... yet another Akbronco Prime Link. 5 days of farming for me it is ... yay! Hell, make the cost of this new relic level 300 void traces, I dont care, just please fix this! 

[Trax_Runner]

4 minutes ago, GnarlsDarkley said:

This is an online game after all. You have the opportunity to trade and it is intended to do so. Instead of "wasting your time" trying to get one specific part run any Relic you have, sell the parts you don't need and just buy the missing part.

I was like you 3 years ago...and oh boy was it a good decision to change my behaviour to the above!

I cant help but think that this is deliberate RGN programming by the dev's ... the companion uncommon drop for the Axi A9 is the Akbronco Prime Link - current value on warfrmae market is 3p ... Ivara Prime Systems current value is 20p - tells you something in itself. At this rate I will need to do another 6 fully upgraded relics to have the 6 Akbronco Prime Links to trade for Ivara's systems. I am also someone who likes to be methodical and trade complete sets to be fully rewarded for my grinding. This game's reward system is lost to me ... I dont see the link between effort and reward.

[GnarlsDarkley]

4 minutes ago, Trax_Runner said:

At this rate I will need to do another 6 fully upgraded relics to have the 6 Akbronco Prime Links to trade for Ivara's systems.

I ran 40 Lith relics in 1 hour of Exterminations couple of days. Since I don't pay attention to what rewards I get I'll use the worst case of 30 trash parts and 10 Forma. That is still 60 plat. Enough to get 3 Ivara Parts and I didn't have to farm relics, traces and run the specific fissure

[Trax_Runner]

1 hour ago, GnarlsDarkley said:

I ran 40 Lith relics in 1 hour of Exterminations couple of days. Since I don't pay attention to what rewards I get I'll use the worst case of 30 trash parts and 10 Forma. That is still 60 plat. Enough to get 3 Ivara Parts and I didn't have to farm relics, traces and run the specific fissure

Well yes, I could do that ... in fact I probably should - but I think you missed a key statement in my reply --> "This game's reward system is lost to me ... I don't see the link between effort and reward." end quote.

How much satisfaction did you get from running those 40 mindless Lith Exterminations, did you get a sense of "achievement" from it.

Lets say I take in Titania (I am still working towards her prime variant as well lol) ... I could blitz Lith Extermination missions as well and pay zero attention to my rewards ... but where is the direct correlation between effort and reward. Leaving the game in its current state directly breaks this link ... like I said, I don't mind grinding all day to get void traces .. as long as the reward I get from that has meaning and is directly attributable to the actions I have undertaken. Blitzing Lith missions would kill that for me, and I get the impression it is that way for you too as you don't pay attention to what you get from your blitz runs, forgive me if I am wrong, but can you get what I am driving at.

Mindlessly running a mission over and over again without paying heed to the rewards ... is exactly what I am whinging about in the first place - whether I do that to farm Ivara Prime Systems .. or get enough trash so that I can trade for them ... is kind of a mute point!

[Wyrmius_Prime]

Amazing, another player complaining about the fact that they are limiting themselves instead of being limited by the game.

[GnarlsDarkley]

58 minutes ago, Trax_Runner said:

Blitzing Lith missions would kill that for me, and I get the impression it is that way for you too as you don't pay attention to what you get from your blitz runs, forgive me if I am wrong, but can you get what I am driving at.

Absolutely. But I gave in to DE. They hardly want to listen to us and thus I either leave this game or play how they want me to play it (in generell).

It's still a great game with it's flaws and if the main issue is a thick DE...then it is like this. And I don't mean this in any negative way towards DE, of course. But they show little to no approach towards the players. There are still gamebreaking bugs after years of reporting and instead of giving an example why they don't/can't fix them they introduce new (and bugged) stuff.

Or look at hard mode. The community is talking about this for years, etc pp

[Trax_Runner]

1 hour ago, Wyrmius_Prime said:

Amazing, another player complaining about the fact that they are limiting themselves instead of being limited by the game.

I take exception to this, did you not stop and think about what it is that is being said? 

The fact that I can not do Rad Share relic runs is not something that is changeable ... 12 months ago I introduced a friend to this great game and we would squad together all the time. Unfortunately his experience of this game was tainted by my internet and he has not played this game in just over 300 days now because of "all the lag and disconnects" ... so if you think that I am selfish enough to force someone else to endure my internet, think again. Something for you to try one day ... online gaming via satellite internet connection (and no, I do not have mobile phone coverage where I am, so I can not hot spot mobile date either).

Furthermore, what is value or worth? Is it gold, is it currency? 

Have you ever heard of the economic principal of Opportunity Cost? If not, no offence but may I suggest you look into it sometime. The reason for doing something is to be rewarded or find value in it, and this intrinsic worth is not limited to the things that have a 'hard cash value'. If the effort you put in yields nothing of worth, why bother at all? Mindlessly running a mission is boring and whilst it will eventually provide what is desired, the whole repetitious process kills the enjoyment and the experience.

Just because you find value and enjoyment in what you do, do not expect that this will be the case for everybody else - I would consider that a very ... narrow ... mindset.

[krc473]

1 hour ago, Trax_Runner said:

Also, the fact that I can not do Rad Share relic runs is not something that is changeable ... 12 months ago I introduced a friend to this great game and we would squad together all the time. Unfortunately his experience of this game was tainted by my internet and he has not played this game in just over 300 days now because of "all the lag and disconnects"

I have to say, this sounds like you lack the hardware for an online coop game. If you are unable to play as intended then I don’t think the system is the issue. It really sounds like you would solve your issue with internet that let you play with other people properly. Sure, you cannot change that, but ultimately that’s your fault not DE’s.

 

Yes, the relic system is pretty flawed. But it is far from being game breaking. It is a grinding game, other games have more grind and don’t let you trade things. It sounds like you don’t enjoy the game, so why keep playing?

• I do not deny that there are many ways to improve the system. But I think realistically anything that DE did would still be more effective when playing in a squad. So You are still going to struggle when compared to other people.

Personally, I open relics that I already have, sell prime parts and then just buy what I want. You don’t need a squad for this, but it is more efficient.

[Trax_Runner]

4 minutes ago, krc473 said:

I have to say, this sounds like you lack the hardware for an online coop game. If you are unable to play as intended then I don’t think the system is the issue. It really sounds like you would solve your issue with internet that let you play with other people properly. Sure, you cannot change that, but ultimately that’s your fault not DE’s.

 

Yes, the relic system is pretty flawed. But it is far from being game breaking. It is a grinding game, other games have more grind and don’t let you trade things. It sounds like you don’t enjoy the game, so why keep playing?

• I do not deny that there are many ways to improve the system. But I think realistically anything that DE did would still be more effective when playing in a squad. So You are still going to struggle when compared to other people.

Personally, I open relics that I already have, sell prime parts and then just buy what I want. You don’t need a squad for this, but it is more efficient.

It is not my hardware that is the issue, I run a AMD Ryzen 7 3700X CPU with a GeForce RTX 2060 Super Graphics Card ... which I dare say would be superior to what 95% of this games player base would currently be using.

I do not deny that my internet is the reason, and that this is hardly DE's fault, but I do doubt that I am the only one out there with this problem. Surely other people in Warfames player base must endure internet like mine. But what if there are other people out there with a perfectly good internet who actually enjoy playing solo? Shouldn't there be another alternative out there for farming prime parts that is enjoyable and fun?

One of the reasons I love this game is it is the only game where I can have an internet fault - that dreaded "network not responding" message that flashes at the bottom of the UI (that I doubt most of you would have ever seen) - and I can still complete the mission and then set about trying to re-establish connection for my mission rewards to transfer to my account.

It is not like I have proposed a game breaking alternative either ... set the higher relic upgrade level to 300 void traces and most people will still see Rad Share as the best way to obtain prime parts, but for those who have lousy internet, or just want the option to obtain prime parts solo, this would offer a viable alternative  - I truly believe this to be a fair proposal.

But maybe I am wrong, maybe you think it terrible idea ... it is a free-world and you are perfectly entitled to your opinion ... as I am mine 🙂

 

 

[Shalath]

I play almost entirely solo and I avoid other players to the point I won't even trade with them (my internet is fine, I just hate PUGs and trading). I've had similar experiences with the game just not wanting to give me a drop, I went through something like 40 relics before I finally got the Tigris Prime BP after it got unvaulted. That's just RNG though (the other warlord in my clan is convinced I am cursed as it isn't the first time) and I know I'm limiting myself by not radsharing the same as I know certain parts of the game are harder because I can't rely on my squad to carry me. That's just the way it is when solo.

One tip I'll give you if farming a specific item is if you go a couple of runs and it doesn't drop run some other relics for a bit rather than sticking it out as I'm half convinced the RNG gets stuck in a bit of a loop if you ask it to roll the same thing over and over. I can't remember what it was when I was farming the Tigris BP but there was one piece I got again and again so many times in a row it was just unbelievable. If I get 3 forma in a row from the same relic I would bet money I'll get a couple more in a row before I give up and switch relics.

The void trace system does make very little sense as everybody runs either intact relics or rads, why would anyone even bother the other tiers?

[(PSN)Gaelic-_-Flame]

4 hours ago, Trax_Runner said:

Lets take Ivara Prime Systems as an example shall we. I farm the interception mission Xini, on Eris for that elusive Axi A9 relic

Not really related to the discussion, but just as suggestion, if you're able to run Disruption missions fine by yourself, they are much more efficient for farming particular relic types. For example Apollo, Lua Disruption gives you Axi relics from round one, if you protect all 4 conduits. And after first round you don't even have to protect all 4 to get one (only 3+ on round 2,  2+ on round 3 and only 1 on round 4 and beyond). It saves a LOT of time, because you don't get the junk from rotation A's like you do in interception missions, which ends up being half of your rewards, no matter what you do, because of AABC rotation cycle in Interception missions.

[krc473]

42 minutes ago, Trax_Runner said:

It is not my hardware that is the issue

What does internet count as? Pretty sure routers are hardware, it doesn’t just mean the components in the PC.

44 minutes ago, Trax_Runner said:

It is not like I have proposed a game breaking alternative either ... set the higher relic upgrade level to 300 void traces and most people will still see Rad Share as the best way to obtain prime parts, but for those who have lousy internet, or just want the option to obtain prime parts solo, this would offer a viable alternative  - I truly believe this to be a fair proposal.

A radshare doesn’t mean you will get the part you want. You can run 10 and still not get it. Your suggestion will become the meta way to farm new prime parts, if you are not after common. I don’t know why you think this is not going to be significantly better than a radshare.

[DEMONxSLAYERxKAZE]

they just need to bring back void key so people who cant/dont feel like using relics can do keys  and let people who enjoy relics do relics 

[Trax_Runner]

On 2020-06-29 at 8:03 PM, krc473 said:

What does internet count as? Pretty sure routers are hardware, it doesn’t just mean the components in the PC.

A radshare doesn’t mean you will get the part you want. You can run 10 and still not get it. Your suggestion will become the meta way to farm new prime parts, if you are not after common. I don’t know why you think this is not going to be significantly better than a radshare.

To a certain point, you are right. Routers are hardware, but it wouldn't matter what type of router you use for satellite internet, it is not hardware, it is a method of delivering internet connectivity (and unfortunately, given my location, the only one I have available to me). For example, the choice between mobile data and phone line internet ... or between standard phone line and optical cable or broadband ADSL.

Also, you are right about my suggestion being the new meta, I set the bar way too low, however I wasn't so concerned with the specifics more with the idea as a principal/concept. What do you think would be the right amount of void traces for this idea to be fair? 600? 800 .. or perhaps something even higher?

2 hours ago, DEMONxSLAYERxKAZE said:

they just need to bring back void key so people who cant/dont feel like using relics can do keys  and let people who enjoy relics do relics 

Void keys were before my time, but without knowing anything about them, it does seem reasonable that, if this would fix/alleviate some of my concerns, it would be easiest to simply bring back a previous game mechanic 🙂

[Trax_Runner]

On 2020-06-29 at 7:28 PM, Shalath said:

I play almost entirely solo and I avoid other players to the point I won't even trade with them (my internet is fine, I just hate PUGs and trading). I've had similar experiences with the game just not wanting to give me a drop, I went through something like 40 relics before I finally got the Tigris Prime BP after it got unvaulted. That's just RNG though (the other warlord in my clan is convinced I am cursed as it isn't the first time) and I know I'm limiting myself by not radsharing the same as I know certain parts of the game are harder because I can't rely on my squad to carry me. That's just the way it is when solo.

One tip I'll give you if farming a specific item is if you go a couple of runs and it doesn't drop run some other relics for a bit rather than sticking it out as I'm half convinced the RNG gets stuck in a bit of a loop if you ask it to roll the same thing over and over. I can't remember what it was when I was farming the Tigris BP but there was one piece I got again and again so many times in a row it was just unbelievable. If I get 3 forma in a row from the same relic I would bet money I'll get a couple more in a row before I give up and switch relics.

The void trace system does make very little sense as everybody runs either intact relics or rads, why would anyone even bother the other tiers?

Thanks - yes, this is a good tip and I do this as well, as I too have noticed that the relic rewards tend to get stuck on a 'broken' cycle. Interestingly, relic drops from different missions tend to also get 'stuck' on a certain drop. It also boils down to the fact that, whether DE admit this or not, not all relic rewards of the same tier (for want of a better term ... i.e. common, uncommon & rare) are created equal. You are far, far more likely to get uncommon drops from intact relics that have 2 prime warframe blueprints as their common reward offerings. This is just my observation though - good tip for others to try out if you chasing a uncommon reward that isnt a warfame blueprint. I dare say that they bias other 'desired' prime parts as well .. something like the Tigris Prime say.

 

On 2020-06-29 at 7:40 PM, (PS4)Gaelic-_-Flame said:

Not really related to the discussion, but just as suggestion, if you're able to run Disruption missions fine by yourself, they are much more efficient for farming particular relic types. For example Apollo, Lua Disruption gives you Axi relics from round one, if you protect all 4 conduits. And after first round you don't even have to protect all 4 to get one (only 3+ on round 2,  2+ on round 3 and only 1 on round 4 and beyond). It saves a LOT of time, because you don't get the junk from rotation A's like you do in interception missions, which ends up being half of your rewards, no matter what you do, because of AABC rotation cycle in Interception missions.

It is a toss up in my book, you may well get Axi's all the way with Disruptions, but not necessarily the Axi's you want. Lua, for example, will only offer the Axi A9 on its B and C rotations, and the C rotation has a reduced chance at that as well. For comparison sake, Xini on Eris also offers the Axi A9 on its B and C rotations, but at the same drop rate. The highest drop chance you can have for the Axi A9 is 14.29% ... Xini has this chance on both B and C, whereas Lua only offers this higher chance on the B rotation ... for C, its drop chance is reduced to 12.42% -->> https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Axi_A9

The only trade off is that it may be possible to run disruptions slightly quicker ... for me, it takes just under 20 minutes to complete the C rotation on Xini and this works quite nicely for me 🙂

[(PSN)Gaelic-_-Flame]

1 hour ago, Trax_Runner said:

It is a toss up in my book, you may well get Axi's all the way with Disruptions, but not necessarily the Axi's you want. Lua, for example, will only offer the Axi A9 on its B and C rotations, and the C rotation has a reduced chance at that as well. For comparison sake, Xini on Eris also offers the Axi A9 on its B and C rotations, but at the same drop rate. The highest drop chance you can have for the Axi A9 is 14.29% ... Xini has this chance on both B and C, whereas Lua only offers this higher chance on the B rotation ... for C, its drop chance is reduced to 12.42% -->> https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Axi_A9

The only trade off is that it may be possible to run disruptions slightly quicker ... for me, it takes just under 20 minutes to complete the C rotation on Xini and this works quite nicely for me 🙂

Well, you can control what rotation you get in Disruption by letting conduits be destroyed, so it's enough for B reward, but not C. But the main point is, you get Axi relic on EVERY rotation, so if 4 rounds of both Disruption and Interception take roughly around 20 minutes, you'll get only 2 chances at Axi A9 in Interception, but you'll get 4 chances in Disruption, which is basically twice as fast. Even if you don't go for rotation B by letting them destroy some conduits, it will still be quicker by a lot, and it's not like getting a Lua lens BP on Rotation C is a bad thing, unless you're already loaded on all the focus schools. It's pretty rare to get one regardless, so you'll mostly be getting Axi relics anyways.

[Trax_Runner]

18 hours ago, (PS4)Gaelic-_-Flame said:

Well, you can control what rotation you get in Disruption by letting conduits be destroyed, so it's enough for B reward, but not C. But the main point is, you get Axi relic on EVERY rotation, so if 4 rounds of both Disruption and Interception take roughly around 20 minutes, you'll get only 2 chances at Axi A9 in Interception, but you'll get 4 chances in Disruption, which is basically twice as fast. Even if you don't go for rotation B by letting them destroy some conduits, it will still be quicker by a lot, and it's not like getting a Lua lens BP on Rotation C is a bad thing, unless you're already loaded on all the focus schools. It's pretty rare to get one regardless, so you'll mostly be getting Axi relics anyways.

Thanks for this. I haven't done a great deal of Disruption missions, and so the idea of deliberately letting conduits be destroyed to control the drop rotation never occurred to me. Very good suggestion - thanks for your advice 🙂

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

Opportunity Cost -consider buying Prime Access Packs then

the option has always been there for people who don't enjoy grind.