A Realization After 2 Months Of Inactivity - Wall Of Text

[Blatantfool]

 I don't happen to agree about the Sandbox thing, but yeah. You seem to think of some of the rest of it similar to the way I do at this stage.

 

 Warframe has plenty of style and plays really well, but it doesn't really go anywhere with it just yet. It is a slow process fixing that problem so DE is at a real disadvantage when they want to say they're gonna get it fixed soon. This isn't a 'Fixed soon' thing. That is just the truth in this case.

 

 Well, now that I think about it, I guess if you count the 'grind chain' as going somewhere then some of it works. I suppose most days I'd say yeah - I consider that doing something as long as it is given to you with plenty of other content that doesn't rely on it. But when it is all you tend to do it really works more like running in circles. And running in circles gets real lame eventually.

 

 It is a real rough ride, at the moment. All this stuff we need in this game ASAP and DE really isn't going to manage getting it in as fast as we'd like. As I'd like. Some of it is stuff you can't really hurry up. Other stuff is things they'd regret hurrying on.

 

 

By the way, Hiyas pdx.

[Eisen]

 

I took a break, to hopefully 

 

"Beat the Burnout"

 

And I don't know if anyone else has.

I put AsurO, and most of my clan mates, the community and everything in the dark. Because warframe was consuming me, and I was not having a fun time playing it.

 

And now when I look back on it, and after playing other games I realized what warframes problem is.

And I don't really know how to describe it well. But it feels too much like a sand box game.

 

Let me explain.

 

 

DE your game is great, to pass the time. To relieve some stress and to shoot some stuff up.

Sure that is one of the most amazing sides of warframe.

And that will be your greatest strength.

 

But at the same time. You have no depth, There is no plot, No Solid story.

Nothing scripted, nothing thought out.  

Ever aspect of warframe is only 10 minutes long. And we need to be engaged for something longer then that.

 

I mean this game needs meaning. We need to find a connection to so something, something that we can feel more in tune with.

The warframes, the weapons, the environments and enemies are all stale. They lack life.  They have no soul you can say.

And this is not something you can just pick up on while playing.  You need to take a step back and see what its missing.

 

You need to put your soul into this game.  

 

Because quite honestly playing warframe is nothing more then pointlessly shooting enemies in some randomly generated sand box game.

Think about creating a map on far-cry and running around shooting nps's that you put in.

 

Its basically the same thing.

 

Now before I take another leave of absence, In hope that this game gets better. I will give you my consensus. 

 

 

Stop building around warframe.

Stop building around the half &#! structure that you have, and build something out of it.

 

You are using the same mechanics, the same engine. the same everything, and you are just working around it, Releasing regular updates to keep players engaged.

That is not fun, that is just lazy, and its keeping players hooked for all of the wrong reasons.

 

You need to design the entire experience, or make it a true sand box.  You are in the middle and this game is without direction.

 

 

The last thing I will say.

 

After leaving this game for a few months. 

do you know what I took from it? What it left with me?

Do you know what type of impact warframe has left on me?

 

nothing. 

 

After leaving, The only thing I took with me was let down and regret.

A wasted time, and a wasted dream.

 

There are many games. That I played YEARS ago.

That still impact me with my experiences.

 

Sure the clan was fun, but that had nothing to do with DE, that was the community.

And this community is awesome and they deserve something better to mend upon.

 

 

On the positive side.  You are an excellent team, and what you do well. You do GREAT.

And it is so polished and fun, that I had a great time while I played.

I just need something more.  This game can keep a monkey entertained for a few months.  But after that, No.

 

 

There is a difference between good games. and Great games.

 

And For DE to think that they are not capable of becoming great, while sitting on such a solid foundation is disgusting. 

I have never seen a game with so much potential. and I feel like you are just throwing it away.

 

You need to wake up, and take a step forward.

Make changes, even if you have to destroy a little to make room for it.

Do not be afraid to take this game to the next level.

This community will support you, But you need to show us that you care.

 

See you in another month or so

 

- Brice 

 

The burnout does not go away.

And I'm pretty sure the devs are fully aware that their game has no retention, they must've built their bussiness model around that factor.

[Lazer]

Warframe lacks longevity and has no real replay value past the novelty phase. Its a game you pick up and play for a short while before moving on because it lacks in so many areas. A lot of games are like this now a days because its easy compared to the alternative and still profits. 

 

This game isn't going to change, just as none of the others have. Play it if you still enjoy it but don't stay around if all you're holding on to is the "hope" this game gets "better". This is all its going to be. 

Edited October 17, 2013 by iTzLazer

[KingKeif]

Your sandbox view is so spot on, Blatantfool really earned his name for disagreeing with that.

 

I have only been playing this game for about two and half months and in that short time I have come to realize how completely unfinished, or even worse, non existent, several different vital parts of this game really are. Is that really what DE is aiming for? A two to three month shelf life? 

 

At this point in time, this game should really still be in a closed beta stage. Yes the game mechanics are ready for action but that's just about it. As stated several times already in this thread and all over the forums, this game needs actual meaning!

 

Until all these pointless updates stop, this game is going no where. Oh new mods? Oh new weapons?  Adding in new weapons and mods is something that needs to hold off until they have got everything else worked out. Finish Damage/Armor 2.0. Stop talking about lore and actually do something about it. Just give this game a freaking point!

Edited October 17, 2013 by KingKeif

[Brahmastra]

agree 100%

[Blatantfool]

 There is nothing 'sandbox' about Warframe's gameplay Keif.

 

 Randomly generated maps do not make it sandbox gameplay. I've talked about this same thing with pdx in the past. Sandbox games are giant playgrounds built to give you a nearly never ending chain of distractions in the form of other missions or quests on the way to your actual goal mission.

 

 Warframe has sectioned off missions with simple objectives in randomly generated maps that typically sport a pretty direct route from spawn to objective to extraction. The enemies in your way do not make for sandbox gameplay. 

 

 It'd be more like a Sandbox if maps where built like four times their current size and where stuffed with extra objectives and intractable bits, like the Void maps on steroids. You know - to make you 'wander the playground' like any good sandbox.

[KingKeif]

While I can agree with you in part, the way enemies spawn throughout the map is what makes it feel rather sandboxy, to me. Run through a room, kill every enemy, leave that room for about 15 seconds, enter the room again and unless you are playing exterminate, you'll find that more enemies have spawned out of nowhere..

 

Similar to when playing a game such a Grand Theft Auto (Best sandbox ever made). Kill people, drive down the street and return. You'll have more npcs that have no idea what you've just done.

Edited October 17, 2013 by KingKeif

[Blatantfool]

While I can agree with you in part, the way enemies spawn throughout the map it what makes it feel rather sandboxy to me. Run through a room, kill every enemy, leave that room for about 15 seconds, enter the room again and unless you are playing exterminate, you'll find that more enemies have spawned out of nowhere..

 

 Yeah, but that isn't really a sandbox element. That is pretty typical of any action oriented game. Hell, CoD technically does something like that.

[pdxdubin]

 There is nothing 'sandbox' about Warframe's gameplay Keif.

 

 Randomly generated maps do not make it sandbox gameplay. I've talked about this same thing with pdx in the past. Sandbox games are giant playgrounds built to give you a nearly never ending chain of distractions in the form of other missions or quests on the way to your actual goal mission.

 

 Warframe has sectioned off missions with simple objectives in randomly generated maps that typically sport a pretty direct route from spawn to objective to extraction. The enemies in your way do not make for sandbox gameplay. 

 

 It'd be more like a Sandbox if maps where built like four times their current size and where stuffed with extra objectives and intractable bits, like the Void maps on steroids. You know - to make you 'wander the playground' like any good sandbox.

 

 

True its not like a sand box.

 

But what I kinda meant, was that warframe is kinda sandbox, kinda not.

If DE released some level editors, and let people create their own dungeons / events similar to other games. Or own game modes.

 

THEN you could call it a true sand box. 

 

On the other hand its not a sand box, because they are trying to add some sort of theme to this game, but its not really there for me.

The game is very open, and the progression system is really not very obvious. 

I guess I would rather say, to compare warframe to a sandbox vs a dungeon crawler. Which is its closes comparison.

( Vindictus, dragon nest )

^ Now the thing that those two games have, that warframe does not. Is a clear story, and progression system.

As well as a balanced experience / grinding path.

Warframe is stuck in the middle, and its not really hitting the correct audience for any genre. if you know what I mean. 

I do love this game, and it has potential. But I feel like DE is trying to hit everything at once without focusing on something for us to do.

 

I would suggest they can either go full on sand box, and allow us to create game modes, and really take control of the level editor. and create open world arenas or defense areas, or whatever. 

 

Or they can go the typical rpg route, and add some type of story, which they seem to be trying.

But that means there has to be some scripted events, and some actual hand made levels.

The recent golem boss fight is a step into the right direction, and if DE can get a handle on scripting or building what they want, then warframe would turn into something really cool.

 

 

I think some more Metal gear solid styled missions would be nice, something with more depth.

Like an actual mission where we have to do multiple things, which then leads up to a climatic boss fight.

Its a lot of work, But its what makes good games.

 

 

I honestly feel like DE is heading into the sandbox direction, they are truly not their yet. But at the moment I feel it is their own option.

 

Let players really go in and design levels.  Expand on the dojo concept.  That is where this game is different and innovative.

and that is one of the few things that will make this game great.

 

They need to either take a break from the game, or bring in some new ideas or fresh faces.

 

Because they obviously know about this short shelf life, but I don't think they know how to fix it.

 

Slow and steady updates like you said, as this game is slowly expanding and evolving, will actually.  In my opinion Kill warframe.

 

By the time the game gets where we want it to be, the playerbase might already be gone. 

Especially if it goes out to ps4.

As a free to play game, I don't see how it can compete with games like watch dogs, and GTA 5.

There is just no reason for people to play it excursively, if not just every once in a while. 

 

 

 

Now on the other hand, if they don't go sand box.

They have the option to go hard into the story mode, and maybe go into depth on the exploration of the solar system, 

Make it more difficult to travel around, maybe let us customize our own ships? to travel to each planet and make it more of an adventure thing..

 

And then cap a story mode based game with a pvp mode, to let the experienced players stay entertained. 

 

Similar to borderlands or Diablo. 

 

Not much you can say, I don't think anyone can say anything helpful for DE, because its already out in the air.

I don't think that my thread will really benefit this game much, if at all.  But I also want to show DE that the community really cares about the game, and is behind them to support it.

 

And hi Blatant ; P 

[Trainer772]

They're not stupid. Of course they're going to work on it, but priorities come first.

[Gorthandel]

This is all a bit dramatic .... 'Consumed me' .... Deary, deary me.

[Madotsuki]

Welcome back pdx, however momentary it is.

I wouldn't really agree that Warframe is a "sandbox" game, as much as it is just an empty shell. At least by my definition, a sandbox game would be something like Minecraft, Terraria, Garry's Mod. Games where it is mostly up to the PLAYER to build whatever they want and do whatever they want with a foundation that has been given to them. Sandbox games are ones where you can build inside it, whether it be using in-game material to build towering treehouses or a floating island, to bringing self-made material into the game, a.k.a. modding. It is the immense modding scene that has made Minecraft and GMod some of the most successful games on the market, afterall.

You don't see that kind of thing going on with Warframe, everything is extremely restrictive, and you don't really get to control anything other than what level of enemy you want to fight, what faction and, to some degree, what tileset. You cannot create anything within, and DE won't let anyone even so much as glimpse their game code. Considering their encryption of drop tables lately, they will never even consider letting anyone mod in a billion years.

Warframe is not a sandbox game. You may get the feel that it is a sandbox game due to its lack of content and how players often have to make their own fun (personally i set personal challenges when i play some missions for fun, such as all melee or stealth), but it is not a sandbox game. It is simply an empty shell of your generic PvE shooter, without the lore, without the enemy variety, without the iconic gimmick weapons, and with more grind reminiscent of MMORPGs.

And that is all Warframe is right now. Unfulfilled potential.

[smithf]

think with all the reference to sandbox, there is some misunderstanding...

the way I read it was not about warframe being a sandbox, but rather what kind of games would draw their players in.

 

On one hand, we have a super-great adventure of epic story and story telling, which gives the user the experience of being in a great movie, with little feel of the plot "restrictions" (though there are, as a natural consequence).

 

On the other hand, we have the totally no inbuilt story sand-box. Where the draw is the myriad of game elements that encourages creativity, and the countless of personal stories that people can experience themselves.

 

As I have mentioned in earlier post, Warframe isn't in any one of them... yet. (though I totally agree that "sandbox" is the more unlikely one).

[Gravefire]

pxdubin is alive what is this nonsense!!!

[Dunkelheit]

I played Everquest and World of Warcraft for months...  do you know what I took out of it? Nothing

 

This is just how gaming works. If you want to take something out of anything, read a book, get some knowledge, build your body.

[Destro6677]

I must add that the story is not what will keep players hooked for now. Many mechanics need a large overhaul. 

[Krysis_V]

I played Everquest and World of Warcraft for months...  do you know what I took out of it? Nothing

 

This is just how gaming works. If you want to take something out of anything, read a book, get some knowledge, build your body.

 

It sounds strange in this thread, but this totally makes sense.

 

I have played RuneScape for so many years, getting max level at so many things... And yet it is nothing in the end.

 

I much prefer the time I have spent across the years learning cooking and reading. :D

[Zarlockk]

I have to agree with this wall of text. But they do a lot, and there are a lot of hopes on Damage 2.0 which looks promising. Reworking bosses is also big step. There is no much point of making a story without having polished bosses. Remember when lore was introduced? At the same time as New Vor was added. But there was 1 mistake. Vor's Prize, which made all of us excited but became a point if fear and uncertainty for DE as they cant share about their progress on that. During live streams they talked about alternative ending when you defeat Vor, you will decide to kill him or not, take his "Void Key" or no and upon your decision your warframe will  affected. But comparing to what was in May when I just joined Warframe, the game improved a lot and as it was mentioned potential is great. But I am going to take a break as well soon. To destroy feeling of Burn out with AC4. I trust and believe in DE, they have potential and the game has potential.They just need a push.

[pdxdubin]

I played Everquest and World of Warcraft for months...  do you know what I took out of it? Nothing

 

This is just how gaming works. If you want to take something out of anything, read a book, get some knowledge, build your body.

Everquest and warcraft are not good examples.... 

 

lol

[JerryMouse13]

Everquest and warcraft are not good examples.... 

 

lol

 

How so?

[WondahBoah]

*salutes his leader*

*single tear falls from eye*

[notlamprey]

To the people who say they played games like EQ and WoW and feel like they got nothing out of it...

You got robbed. I learned all kinds of stuff playing WoW that I wouldn't have had the opportunity to learn elsewhere. Having a loving home and private school life has a way of... closing off certain parts of the human experience.

I played WoW for almost 4 years, and then on/off for about another year. I made friends in other countries, built relationships across the U.S., helped counsel the big sister I never had through serious depression, learned a lot about people that a B.S. in psychology was woefully inadequate to teach... and that's the short version.

I'm sure that some portion of the community is finding meaningful stuff in Warframe, but I'd say the game is falling far short of its potential to deliver memorable experiences. If I were a team member at DE, looking around at all the browser games and retro pastiches that are deeper, more rewarding and more memorable than Warframe...

I'd say I expected more. As a 25-year old, is it reasonable to expect every game to give me a story worth telling? Maybe not. Maybe I'm to blame for wanting something from Warframe that it just can't be - never could have been.

At the end of the day, I'm still disappointed.

[EetNotErn]

I can't believe that I'm agreeing with Pxdubin but yet here I am, I agree with him. The game has great combat mechanics and because of that it makes it fun to play, at least on the surface. But Warframe lacks depth. It lacks soul. It feels empty. There is no narrative and no story to it.

 

There is very little point to playing it except to step on the never ending gear and power creep treadmill. You level one weapon after another as more and more powerful weapons come out. Nothing feels permanent but rather they're disposable. Again, that's fun up to a certain point but lacks the meat to make it fun long term.

[pdxdubin]

I can't believe that I'm agreeing with Pxdubin but yet here I am, I agree with him. The game has great combat mechanics and because of that it makes it fun to play, at least on the surface. But Warframe lacks depth. It lacks soul. It feels empty. There is no narrative and no story to it.

 

There is very little point to playing it except to step on the never ending gear and power creep treadmill. You level one weapon after another as more and more powerful weapons come out. Nothing feels permanent but rather they're disposable. Again, that's fun up to a certain point but lacks the meat to make it fun long term.

 

 

Power creep can be fixed, by changing their marketing stragety. 

 

If they make the focus on gameplay, instead of buying weapons and warframes.  Then this game will become much better.

 

I would like to see maybe a DCUO plan.

 

Where there is a "Free to play" model

 

And a "Pay to play" model.

 

And DE could determine how to separate these.  And hopefully allow them to focus on the gameplay instead of just releasing weapons.

 

That is what I would do.  If its about money. 

[IIX_Vritrayan]

You know what pdx I think you're right. I have been inactive for about nearly 3 months now and just came back yesterday. I agree to what you said, it's just like you took the words out of my mouth. DE should wake up and know what the game is missing. The game is really lacking life and doesn't give me the urge to play it. The game has so much potential, but what they're doing right now is the same thing all over again.

Edited October 18, 2013 by PrismSeven