Tank vs. CC vs. Invis

[(PSN)KyomaSatomi]

I've had a talk about how tanking is less effective on higher levels than using CC or just going invisible tho I still have second thoughts about it. Mainly because frames that rely on either are usually quite squishy and I'm worried that enemies on higher levels gotta one-shot me if there is a slip up.
Ideally, I'd like to have some extra survivability as an additional layer of security (that's really the ideal case tho)

And obligatory; I'm mentioning that I prefer suggestions that avoid corrupted mods as a personal thing.

 

P.S. this post is mainly to gather information and advice, not for discussion.

[(XBOX)CordingMoon7789]

In my opinion even though im not very experienced i'd say Harrow is pretty good Warframe his 1 is a decent crowd control and the shields can sometimes get you out of problems, his 2 even though it takes all your shields if you had a  lot of shield when you used it you can heal your entire health and your entire team in a very low amount of hits i've healed over 10k health in a single combo, his 3 helps you recover energy and his 4 has 2 main functions i use it for.

1- Panic Button: if a big amount of enemies have cornered you, you can use the invincibilty to either escape or to get enough time to chain them all with your 1.

2-Room cleaner: same scenario as last one but instead you stay and with the bonus crit chance destroy everything in the room.

 

[TheArcSet]

22 hours ago, (PS4)KyomaSatomi said:

I've had a talk about how tanking is less effective on higher levels than using CC or just going invisible tho I still have second thoughts about it. Mainly because frames that rely on either are usually quite squishy and I'm worried that enemies on higher levels gotta one-shot me if there is a slip up.
Ideally, I'd like to have some extra survivability as an additional layer of security (that's really the ideal case tho)

Something that might be useful for you to consider is, what do you mean by tanking?

• High Effective-Health bullet sponge.
• High healing.
• High (99.9%) Damage-Reduction.
• Reduced-capacity-fast-recharge shield-gating invulnerability.
• Invulnerability from Abilities/triggered-effects.
• "Can't touch me" Invulnerability.
• Death-Cheating effects.

Most good warframe tanks combine a few of those.

Also, certain arcanes (like Guardian/Grace/Barrier), mods (like Rolling-guard, Health_Conversion), or weapons (like Raktos_Dark_Dagger), can let almost any frame mostly fulfil one of those criteria.

 

I guess up-time would be a key CC vs Tanking question.

If you come a cross a healer or a nullifier, that blocks your CC, will you just die? Does your ability to tank need refreshing? Can you survive sustained damage, or just damage bursts?

[Infirito]

Get yourself Nyx with whatever dog has Stalk. All 3 in 1 and a 100% armour/shield strip as a bonus. ^_^

[(PSN)KyomaSatomi]

vor 21 Minuten schrieb TheArcSet:

• High Effective-Health bullet sponge.
• High healing.
• High (99.9%) Damage-Reduction.

 

vor 21 Minuten schrieb TheArcSet:

Invulnerability from Abilities/triggered-effects.

 

vor 22 Minuten schrieb TheArcSet:

Death-Cheating effects

That's what I mean by tanking. Stuff like Wukong's Defy and Cloudwalker, Rhino's Iron Skin or Nidus' passive.

[(PSN)KyomaSatomi]

vor 18 Minuten schrieb Infirito:

Get yourself Nyx with whatever dog has Stalk. All 3 in 1 and a 100% armour/shield strip as a bonus. ^_^

Honestly, I haven't touched Nyx as she's pretty squishy.

I also never used synergies with companions, weapons etc. (I've been kinda of a brute force everything type)

[(PSN)KyomaSatomi]

vor 8 Stunden schrieb Nailclipper:

BTW putting corrupted mods on a frame doesn't really mean that its build will have negative stats (below 100%), like this for example: https://overframe.gg/build/36112/wisp/ultimate-endgame-shared-config-a-level-2000-enemies-defense-all-purpose/

If you don't prefer using Speedva, Neutralva also needs Overextended to make her strength 70% (0% slow, 100 STR is 30% slow). Neutralva can be useful on Arbitrations Defense for example, where you may not want to either speed up or slow down the mobs.

That Wisp build uses 2 mods to compensate the penalty from one of those corrupted mods tho. This means 2 slots you could have filled with something else that would have been useful. And as I see it, it's not that Stretch and A. Reach negate the downside from Narrow Minded, Narrow Minded negates the benefit of the other 2.

And the only Nova I run is slow Nova. Never go below 100%.

[Infirito]

13 minutes ago, (PS4)KyomaSatomi said:

Honestly, I haven't touched Nyx as she's pretty squishy.

That's only the case if you're doing nothing. Generally, you want to run an augment for her 4 in case you need to tank and have your 3 active at all times for general safety. Works well for Liches, RJ, SP, Sorties, Arbies and whatever else you wanna do with her.

I've also been brute forcing most stuff lately and I've used Nyx for that. :P

[(PSN)KyomaSatomi]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb Infirito:

That's only the case if you're doing nothing. Generally, you want to run an augment for her 4 in case you need to tank and have your 3 active at all times for general safety. Works well for Liches, RJ, SP, Sorties, Arbies and whatever else you wanna do with her.

I've also been brute forcing most stuff lately and I've used Nyx for that. 😛

I'd normally rather put on Iron Skin and eat up all the damage the enemy puts out, maybe stomping a bit to get myself additional room to breathe.

I've never seen Nyx as the kind of frame who can tank enemy fire. Mostly because she has low stats in terms of defense.

[punish_me]

8 часов назад, (PS4)KyomaSatomi сказал:

I guess me not using corrupted mods will not make that easier.

Weapons no need corrupted mods 😉 And only nukers need min max stats with this. Another frames have a lot of choices. 

[(PSN)KyomaSatomi]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb (XB1)BRUHck Obama:

In my opinion even though im not very experienced i'd say Harrow is pretty good Warframe his 1 is a decent crowd control and the shields can sometimes get you out of problems, his 2 even though it takes all your shields if you had a  lot of shield when you used it you can heal your entire health and your entire team in a very low amount of hits i've healed over 10k health in a single combo, his 3 helps you recover energy and his 4 has 2 main functions i use it for.

1- Panic Button: if a big amount of enemies have cornered you, you can use the invincibilty to either escape or to get enough time to chain them all with your 1.

2-Room cleaner: same scenario as last one but instead you stay and with the bonus crit chance destroy everything in the room.

 

He got recommended to me before and yes, I'll try him more.

Tho I do wonder how many forma I'd have to sink into him to make him fit for something like solo sortie or Steel Path.

[(XBOX)CordingMoon7789]

hace 4 horas, (PS4)KyomaSatomi dijo:

He got recommended to me before and yes, I'll try him more.

Tho I do wonder how many forma I'd have to sink into him to make him fit for something like solo sortie or Steel Path.

He doesnt need much Formas

Some people use it with one forma and it does fine.

There is people saying he is bad, but that´s just because he isn´t the best support because people are comparing him to trinity, but trinity is the best support and only really helps for energy  and healing without doing anything. But with Harrow you can put less attention into other stats since you can focus on yourself while being solo.

Harrow takes more management for example against infested you might have 2500 shields but you have 140 HP so you should use your 2 to heal yourself and to check how much energy you have so you use your 3 to recover energy and Harrow´s augment for the 4th ability is very good if you want to keep for more time your crit chance bonus.

I use Ignis wraith and with th 4th ability called covenant i can clean a room full of over 100 lvl enemies.

[kgabor]

None of these, with the energy leech eximus spam, long range cc, like max range Loki, Gara, Booben or Nyx could be the only ones useful at that point.

There's a reason why death is the best cc.

[(PSN)KyomaSatomi]

vor 19 Stunden schrieb kgabor:

None of these, with the energy leech eximus spam, long range cc, like max range Loki, Gara, Booben or Nyx could be the only ones useful at that point.

There's a reason why death is the best cc.

Does that take into account that the build is without corrupted mods?

[kgabor]

7 hours ago, (PS4)KyomaSatomi said:

Does that take into account that the build is without corrupted mods?

Sadly nope, a good ranged cc or dps build usually needs either Overextended or Blind Rage.

But there are exceptions, Limbo might not need either depending on how you build it. (though Rift Torrent benefits from both ability strength and range)

Khora and Gara uses melee statsticks, so strength mods are less important and you can be perfectly fine with just an Intensify in your build and max range. (optional, but optimal)

[_Anise_]

  

On 2020-08-26 at 6:04 PM, AntawnMary said:

This is impossible because of the Shield Gating  😉

yeah what will happen is they take your shield off in 1 second then you have a blip off immunity before the second hit kills you.

most solo dps frames you have to bounce of the walls dodge and roll or have some kind of good base damage reduction or both

On 2020-08-26 at 6:05 PM, LascarCapable said:

maybe you'll like playing Nezha

my goto tank or even support with the shield he can throw on allies modded!! damage reduction is healing via prevention, I like him more than rhino because his UI is so much clearer and seems less dependant on mods (or so I am told)

 

now my 2c,

if you want to go the invisible route you could take ivara with an beast companion (or dethcube) I think those two still attack whilestealth and a silenced ranged weapon with a high efficiency build but the downside to this is you will literally be bored stand still pumping arrows into your enemies head over and over and over waiting for it to die and if your enemy happens to have aoe (necromec) and an infested walks into the room it will sneeze and you will die!

octavia might just be the all round broken frame, unlimited scaling damage, unlimited stealth that allow you to use whatever weapons you want, your ball is an immune tank that combined with the hammer kills everything!! the only downside you will have to mash ctrl to maintain stealth

Nezha I used to clear a lot of steel path, they do insta kill his shield if you stand still and try face tank lol but he shines! specially defense/mobile defense, mostly just having a good weapon but also just sticking everything on his spikes (4) just shooting enemies on spikes and throwing (2) at them never running out of energy also putting his halo on defense objectives!

[(PSN)KyomaSatomi]

vor 17 Stunden schrieb kgabor:

Sadly nope, a good ranged cc or dps build usually needs either Overextended or Blind Rage.

But there are exceptions, Limbo might not need either depending on how you build it. (though Rift Torrent benefits from both ability strength and range)

Khora and Gara uses melee statsticks, so strength mods are less important and you can be perfectly fine with just an Intensify in your build and max range. (optional, but optimal)

This is why in my post, I specifically mentioned that I prefer builds that work without those mods. I wanted to have some advice about how to go about this without having to repeatedly explain that I look for a build without those mods.

[(PSN)KyomaSatomi]

vor 17 Stunden schrieb _Anise_:

if you want to go the invisible route you could take ivara with an beast companion (or dethcube) I think those two still attack whilestealth and a silenced ranged weapon with a high efficiency build but the downside to this is you will literally be bored stand still pumping arrows into your enemies head over and over and over waiting for it to die and if your enemy happens to have aoe (necromec) and an infested walks into the room it will sneeze and you will die!

octavia might just be the all round broken frame, unlimited scaling damage, unlimited stealth that allow you to use whatever weapons you want, your ball is an immune tank that combined with the hammer kills everything!! the only downside you will have to mash ctrl to maintain stealth

Nezha I used to clear a lot of steel path, they do insta kill his shield if you stand still and try face tank lol but he shines! specially defense/mobile defense, mostly just having a good weapon but also just sticking everything on his spikes (4) just shooting enemies on spikes and throwing (2) at them never running out of energy also putting his halo on defense objectives!

I was asking for some input on which is better for higher level content since I have been mainly facetanking, leaving CC and invis on the side or for special occasions.

And for those frames you mentioned, I normally have 3 questions regarding the build:

Does it work without corrupted mods?
How many abilities are usable?
How many Forma does it require?

[Nailclipper]

BTW putting corrupted mods on a frame doesn't really mean that its build will have negative stats (below 100%), like this for example: https://overframe.gg/build/36112/wisp/ultimate-endgame-shared-config-a-level-2000-enemies-defense-all-purpose/

If you don't prefer using Speedva, Neutralva also needs Overextended to make her strength 70% (0% slow, 100 STR is 30% slow). Neutralva can be useful on Arbitrations Defense for example, where you may not want to either speed up or slow down the mobs.

[(PSN)KyomaSatomi]

vor 32 Minuten schrieb punish_me:

SP can be done with any frame. It's all about super duper staff you already have. 

I guess me not using corrupted mods will not make that easier.

[punish_me]

Nidus cant die. That's all. My personal lich lvl 5 killer. I dont care about whole 120 lvl room and shooting with rubico in lich 😄

Also

8 часов назад, (PS4)KyomaSatomi сказал:

I'm mostly talking about the 'higher level' content such as ESO, Sorties or Steel Path.

Eso is for Saryn. Sorties can be done with any frames, but sometimes needs a correct frame with correct specs. SP can be done with any frame. It's all about super duper staff you already have. 

[(PSN)KyomaSatomi]

vor 1 Minute schrieb Canach:

You're running extremely tanky - (no Inaros love?)

Nova is going to be effective as Slow Nova (positive ability STR) against difficult defenses/survivals (Kuva, Arbitration) and very nice as Fast Nova (neg ability STR) in farming or leveling missions. She can be fairly tough with the right build, but will never ignore attacks like your Rhino/Wukong/Nidus/Valkyr. Nova is an excellent frame to develop fully. Energy management is as important as duration and health, but there's a lot of great builds out there.

I only use her as SlowVa, because I don't like negative stats and slowing enemies is more useful to me than making them faster.

For range, I go with default and I got duration as high as I could without compromising range.

When it's about tanking, I can a bit braindead, relying on eating the damage and sometimes forgetting to keep an eye on my HP or that I can also dodge fire.

Invis and CC require you to be more vigilant.

[Canach]

19 minutes ago, (PS4)KyomaSatomi said:

My main is Rhino, together with Wukong and I also use Nidus and a bit of Valkyr.

I do wonder tho if you mean 'normal' Nova (the one that uses Narrow Minded).

You're running extremely tanky

Nova is going to be effective as Slow Nova (positive ability STR) against difficult defenses/survivals (Kuva, Arbitration) and very nice as Fast Nova (neg ability STR) in farming or leveling missions. She can be fairly tough with the right build, but will never ignore attacks like your Rhino/Wukong/Nidus/Valkyr. Nova is an excellent frame to develop fully. Energy management is as important as duration and health, but there's a lot of great builds out there.

A better chance might even be Banshee built to maximize Sonar and Silence - still gonna feel squishy compared to your tanks, but she will do a lot better maybe - and be at least as good as Nova, in general value.

Regarding Steel Path - you need damage not toughness - maybe Titania - I've been using mostly Inaros, Titania, and Umber in Steel Path.

[(PSN)KyomaSatomi]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb Canach:

Recommendation:  I use Ash, Inaros, Frost, Umbra, and Nova more than anything else. Choose your own set, but you need about 3-5 frames, not 1.

My main is Rhino, together with Wukong and I also use Nidus and a bit of Valkyr.

I do wonder tho if you mean 'normal' Nova (the one that uses Narrow Minded).

[(PSN)KyomaSatomi]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb Aadi880:

For most content in Warframe, "Tanking" damage will do more than enough. This can be achieved rather easily with regular mods, Umbral Mods, and arcanes. No need for Corrupted modes here. Content like these generally include sortie levels, (excluding Deimos).

On higher levels, shield gating will start outperforming things like DR and armor, because enemy types spawn that more often than not, can oneshot you. (Excluding Deimos). On stuff like these, I advice sentinel mods that instantly recharges shields or abilities like Mag's polarize. (If you run Inaros, then it doesn't matter.)

If you are wondering why I am excluding Deimos, its because enemies are unique there. Infested enemies innately deal the highest base damage compared to other factions. Deimos enemies specifically have Corrosive, Blast, Toxin, Gas and Viral innate. They indeed hit like a truck. Here, your best bet to tank that is using Inaros. anything else becomes too risky unless you go for CC or invisibility. However, if you run low level deimos missions, its not really a problem.

Inaros can tank anything with ease EXCEPT the frost junction specter in steel path, where the average Inaros player has to use more than 1 brain cell to get past him.
(Seriously, that sibear hits like a truck)

I'm mostly talking about the 'higher level' content such as ESO, Sorties or Steel Path.

Normally, I wouldn't do something like that solo, I just don't think I can be that successfult at this point.

[(PSN)KyomaSatomi]

vor 53 Minuten schrieb Nailclipper:

Yes, but don't dis Inaros. You do use his skills semi-regularly, maybe not his 3. Use his 4 with the augment to make you immune to status and knockdown. Use his 2 to restore your health (if you don't have Magus Repair yet). And use his 1 for CC and finishers.

Because Inaros have a lot of HP already, you can put some mobility mods on him and not go into full HP mode. BTW this is the standard build: https://overframe.gg/build/59179/inaros-prime/anubis-god-of-death-immortal-jackal/ (you can replace Primed Sure Footed with Negation Swarm, Primed Vigor with Armored Agility, and the Aura + Exilus with mobility mods).

I won't dis Inaros, I don't have a reason to think badly of this frame.

And the build looks good, tho I'd most likely use a different Exilus since the only drift mod I have so far is Power Drift.