I think it's very important to address the issue with Warframe abilities that require a useless melee weapon to function.

[(PSN)mahoshonenfox]

Stat stick aren't even clear in the game. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think there's anything in game that talks about it.

[chaotea]

On 2020-12-05 at 3:46 AM, XaoGarrent said:

No, at that point you just end up using another frame.

 

While i get your point of view, i feel like maybe thats the point of the system as it is. You get the option of this really strong ability, but it comes with the sacrifice of the melee functionallity. As you say, you can always use another frame with a good melee weapon. Melees op as it is right now.

[Teridax68]

I agree with the OP, the changes to Exalted weapons should have been the end to a reliance on our arsenal to fuel an ability's stats, and the incomplete shift has caused problems already with the Xoris's infinite combo counter duration. I think one potential solution could be to give warframes with weapon mod-scaling abilities their own unique backup weapon in the style of Garuda's talons, with that weapon acting as the stat stick for the related ability: Atlas could get some pair of rocky fists or the like, Khora could get her whip, and so on, and those weapons could be fine-tuned to match their respective abilities. Not only would this solve the issue of external stat sticks, it would give these frames an extra weapon to play with for additional flavor.

[sunderthefirmament]

On 2020-12-06 at 4:55 AM, (PSN)mahoshonenfox said:

Stat stick aren't even clear in the game. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think there's anything in game that talks about it.

This is a problem throughout a lot of Warframe, but I would argue few things are less clear to the players than the statstick system.  The wiki is basically required, and you'll still see posts on the subreddit every so often begging for Khora statstick builds and the like.  To make matters worse, applicable mods are inconsistent even among statstick using frames.

It's a dated, clunky system, that should have been phased out long ago, and embodies a power imbalance that is way out of whack with the rest of the game... which is saying something for Warframe.  Replace statstick abilities with pseudo-exalteds, and buff/rework affected frames as needed. 

I honestly avoid using statstick frames because of the FOMO side of it.  You either choose to have a functioning melee weapon or you choose to have a powerful ability.  Other frames can have both, but statstick frames can't.  I used Khora for a while, but she has a spammy style that I don't find too enjoyable.  With the steel essence nerf, there's really not much I'd use her for farming anyway.  I'd like to try Atlas more, bust out those rocky glutes in his deluxe skin, but the statstick holds me back.  And Gara is whatever.  The infinite scaling that can be wrecked by one tiny mistake is another FOMO issue, and it's better to discuss it elsewhere.

[XaoGarrent]

11 hours ago, chaotea said:

While i get your point of view, i feel like maybe thats the point of the system as it is. You get the option of this really strong ability, but it comes with the sacrifice of the melee functionallity. As you say, you can always use another frame with a good melee weapon. Melees op as it is right now.

This makes zero sense.

[chaotea]

12 hours ago, XaoGarrent said:

This makes zero sense.

Your right, if its not game breakingly over powered with zero drawbacks then whats the point? Is your next topic going to be on how DE should remove negitive stats from nightmare mods?

[XaoGarrent]

7 hours ago, chaotea said:

Your right, if its not game breakingly over powered with zero drawbacks then whats the point? Is your next topic going to be on how DE should remove negitive stats from nightmare mods?

Your words not mine. Seems you're projecting something.

[CatNV]

On 2020-12-06 at 11:55 AM, (PSN)mahoshonenfox said:

Stat stick aren't even clear in the game. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think there's anything in game that talks about it.

If there is it certainly isn't something I could remember where was. It's basically an easter egg at this point, but also essential for a few of the frames to work. That's what we call bad game design.

On 2020-12-07 at 9:40 PM, sunderthefirmament said:

This is a problem throughout a lot of Warframe, but I would argue few things are less clear to the players than the statstick system.  The wiki is basically required, and you'll still see posts on the subreddit every so often begging for Khora statstick builds and the like.  To make matters worse, applicable mods are inconsistent even among statstick using frames.

It's a dated, clunky system, that should have been phased out long ago, and embodies a power imbalance that is way out of whack with the rest of the game... which is saying something for Warframe.  Replace statstick abilities with pseudo-exalteds, and buff/rework affected frames as needed. 

I honestly avoid using statstick frames because of the FOMO side of it.  You either choose to have a functioning melee weapon or you choose to have a powerful ability.  Other frames can have both, but statstick frames can't.  I used Khora for a while, but she has a spammy style that I don't find too enjoyable.  With the steel essence nerf, there's really not much I'd use her for farming anyway.  I'd like to try Atlas more, bust out those rocky glutes in his deluxe skin, but the statstick holds me back.  And Gara is whatever.  The infinite scaling that can be wrecked by one tiny mistake is another FOMO issue, and it's better to discuss it elsewhere.

In total agreement. I am coming at it from the other side where I picked up Khora as my favourite frame, shortly after trying her out for the first time, and found her very fun to play. But having to choose between "my kit works" and "my melee weapon works" is massively frustrating. I find the very concept of using a statstick insulting, because it essentially demands that you sacrifice an equipment slot for an ability, which generally means you play the game with one less tool than everyone else. At the same time it's frustrating when the frame is balanced around the statstick existing, because you never get a real option not to use it. There's no alternative to using a statstick; there is only the choice between the kit working and not; which is not a sensible interest conflict to issue to a player.

You're expected to pour anything from 6 to 18 forma into this frame to make her work between her frame mods, venari mods, and statstick mods; and then you're slapped on the wrist for over-performing. Seems jolly unfair, because it was never the player's choice to use the frame this way in the first place. I have avoided using Gara and Atlas specifically  because of the statsticks, the very mechanic ruins the frames.