Eidolon Elitism and how to fix it (maybe,sorta)

[inappropriatename5877]

Greetings. I've been playing this lovable dumpster fire of a game for almost 5 years now and have almost 2k hours clocked in (not steam time, in game time) . The community has been pretty spicy and helpful for the most part, but holy hell do Eidolon Hunters get on my nerves. I do not really blame them tho. I would want to commit aliven't too if random single digit MR players joined my Tridolon group and I had to break my back in 3 places to carry them through the hunt.
Thing is, I also do not blame the single digit MR players. How could they have known that they are severely under equipped to deal with the Tridolons in the first place? Would be nice if the Tridolons were a locked part of the game that would be inaccessible to newer players until much later. For some reason, the Eidolons are immediately accessible though, and on the first planet no less, without any warning or explanation. Not only that, they are accessible only for a limited time each hour, so new players won't ever get the chance to understand them at their own pace, and will always have to resort to either getting carried, or watching multiple youtube videos and reading the wiki to understand the mechanics of the Eidolons. This in turn forces those players to either join an experienced party (and learn next to nothing considering the time limit, while at the same time bringing nothing to the team) or try it out themselves and accomplish nothing. 

This is where the elitism comes into play: Experienced players that want to do 2x3, 3x3 or more, will of course look for other experienced players, as they only have a limited time to get what they need (IF they get it, cause RNG and such) . They will lash out at newer players, telling them to "go watch a video or read the wiki".
Which is why I think I have an idea on how to solve this situation.

You see, from my PoV, the main reason people don't know how to Tridolons is the time limit. 45 minutes to gather lures, fill them up, and keep them alive while at the same time dealing with 3 hulking beasts that require specific loadouts and gear to even do acceptable damage is really baffling to me (don't forget that the operator's amp is the only thing that can damage the eidolons' shields, despite Xaku's abilities dealing the same damage type and despite the Paracesis existing) . So why not isolate the Tridolons in a separate mission without a time limit? 
There could be a boatman in Cetus to transport you to an island where those Tridolons roam around, or even 3 separate islands so you can face any one of them at your own pace. The Brilliant Eidolon Shard requirement could also be implemented as a means of payment for the boatman, when it comes to Garry or Harry.

This way, new players will know that they are unable to access these locations without having completed the War Within first, and when they are able to get there, they can fight the Eidolons whenever, at their own pace, and as often as they like, in order to learn more about how to handle them. After that, they could only go to a certain Eidolon if they want a certain arcane, and not have to wait for an hour, and maybe have to kill one or two eidolons to  have a chance to get what they want.

If you (DE) do not want to give us more ways to deal with the Eidolons, and you want to force a meta, at least save us some frustration and implement something like this so we don't have to continuously resort to outside help for in-game stuff.

[krc473]

39 minutes ago, inappropriatename5877 said:

They will lash out at newer players, telling them to "go watch a video or read the wiki".

That seems like a perfectly sensible thing to do. Nothing elitist about it. Have you ever tried explaining over the text chat what build/frame people need to take, then also how to do the mission? It does take a while. And as you mentioned, there is a time limit.

40 minutes ago, inappropriatename5877 said:

So why not isolate the Tridolons in a separate mission without a time limit? 

Would we still get rewards from it? A training ground area with no rewards might be okay. But DE does seem to want to keep them only running for a limited time period.

[VoidArkhangel]

hace 8 minutos, krc473 dijo:

That seems like a perfectly sensible thing to do. Nothing elitist about it. Have you ever tried explaining over the text chat what build/frame people need to take, then also how to do the mission? It does take a while. And as you mentioned, there is a time limit.

It is alright but there are players who want to do a 5x3 every night and if one player makes a mistake they begin to insult and complain, if they are they host they leave messing up the entire mission.

hace 55 minutos, inappropriatename5877 dijo:

There could be a boatman in Cetus to transport you to an island where those Tridolons roam around, or even 3 separate islands so you can face any one of them at your own pace. The Brilliant Eidolon Shard requirement could also be implemented as a means of payment for the boatman, when it comes to Garry or Harry.

I think it would be better to have the Lotus forcing extraction during the night while the player didn't complete The War Within. Anyways, you shouldn't face a single sentient until Natah and we know how "overprotective" was the Lotus in that way.

[taiiat]

yes, a good way to reduce a lot of the issues with Eidolon Hunting is to simply get rid of this Daylight cycle garbage that they try to stick on everything.
instead of creating stuff for people to just enjoy and play, everything for some reason has to create artificial barriers to Players playing. something that tells them you aren't allowed to play right now, logout and come back later".

if you want Players to play your stuff, try not putting up Doors in front of it that tell Players they aren't allowed to play the content. it's just antithetical to the point of creating content.

 

1 hour ago, inappropriatename5877 said:

3 hulking beasts that require specific loadouts and gear to even do acceptable damage

incorrect. having spacekid stuff is the only real requirement, outside of that there's a lot of viable Equipment chioces.

[Uhkretor]

1 hour ago, inappropriatename5877 said:

3 hulking beasts that require specific loadouts and gear to even do acceptable damage

... One word - Necramech...

 

... Besides that, its spaceboi equipment. Gotta get rid of those shield fast...

[Drasiel]

Even though I can't really play eidolons because of health issues (although with changes to effects and settings I can now do 3 teralysts once a 24 hour period without getting nasty symptoms yay) I really wish they were more accessible to everyone else that can play them. I desperately want something like what was done with the deimos vaults to be done to eidolons.

[inappropriatename5877]

1 hour ago, taiiat said:

incorrect. having spacekid stuff is the only real requirement, outside of that there's a lot of viable Equipment chioces.

The fact that almost every amp combo is crap, and only specific combos work well is enough to warrant using only certain combinations of equipment, which leaves little to no room for customization.

1 hour ago, Uhkretor said:

... One word - Necramech...

 

... Besides that, its spaceboi equipment. Gotta get rid of those shield fast...

Necramechs are nice, but considering that you have to have max standing with another syndicate to get them, (and on a later planet), i'd still say that having Eidolons immediately accessible is a bad idea. As for the spaceboi equipment, refer to my previous reply in this post.

[Gamer_Auto]

THIS.

I'm struggling with leveling up The Quills right now. It's mostly for reasons of my computer melting down while in the open world areas (especially Vallis), but also the fact that the fastest way is to hunt the Eidolons, and I have to go look up a very specific mod set for at least my Frame and Primary, fill out all the Forma and Endo requirements which takes a LONG time, and even then I have to use specific Amp combos that I don't have access to yet! Yes, I could just grind the Voms for basic cores and upgrade them in the workbench, but that'd take probably just as long to hunt the Voms, dig up the gems, refine the gems, refine the cores. Not to mention the credit cost, which brings multiple runs of Index into the mix! That's a lotta grinding! And as a wise woman once said: Ain't nobody got time for that!

Having ALL THREE Eidolons be their own separate things that you have to intentionally activate would be a much better alternative, imho. Doing that for the Orb Mothers would be good too. Like, you can still have the Voms and Spiderbots crawling around the open worlds as normal. Just make the World Bosses something you have to go out of your way to find and fight. Like, during the Bounty mission for Terry, it allows you to activate a stone marker somewhere that summons Terry for you to fight.

I know some people feel that would take away Player Choice. And I get that argument. I get that there are people who look at something, say "I wanna fight it", and throw themselves at a wall for days on end trying to defeat a boss while under-leveled. But not everyone finds that fun. I feel like Warframe's open worlds would be far more welcoming if you weren't able to get stepped on like an ant the instant you stay out too late during a resource gathering run. (other hostile enemies are a completely separate issue I have with the OWs, but that's for another thread.)

[Drasiel]

27 minutes ago, Gamer_Auto said:

THIS.

I'm struggling with leveling up The Quills right now. It's mostly for reasons of my computer melting down while in the open world areas (especially Vallis), but also the fact that the fastest way is to hunt the Eidolons, and I have to go look up a very specific mod set for at least my Frame and Primary, fill out all the Forma and Endo requirements which takes a LONG time, and even then I have to use specific Amp combos that I don't have access to yet! Yes, I could just grind the Voms for basic cores and upgrade them in the workbench, but that'd take probably just as long to hunt the Voms, dig up the gems, refine the gems, refine the cores. Not to mention the credit cost, which brings multiple runs of Index into the mix! That's a lotta grinding! And as a wise woman once said: Ain't nobody got time for that!

Having ALL THREE Eidolons be their own separate things that you have to intentionally activate would be a much better alternative, imho. Doing that for the Orb Mothers would be good too. Like, you can still have the Voms and Spiderbots crawling around the open worlds as normal. Just make the World Bosses something you have to go out of your way to find and fight. Like, during the Bounty mission for Terry, it allows you to activate a stone marker somewhere that summons Terry for you to fight.

I know some people feel that would take away Player Choice. And I get that argument. I get that there are people who look at something, say "I wanna fight it", and throw themselves at a wall for days on end trying to defeat a boss while under-leveled. But not everyone finds that fun. I feel like Warframe's open worlds would be far more welcoming if you weren't able to get stepped on like an ant the instant you stay out too late during a resource gathering run. (other hostile enemies are a completely separate issue I have with the OWs, but that's for another thread.)

As someone who has been locked out of eidolons until very recently by health problems (and I can still only do 3 teralysts in a row in one 24 hour period) you do not want to take the path of the exceptional cores crafting, trust me, if you can do eidolons at all it's the better option. In order just to rank up to max rank in quills you would need 372 sentirum and nyth respectively to convert the intact cores into exceptionals. That's without spending anything on buying actual quills items.

Since it's pertinent, let me just shill my thread about changing that blueprint to use different gems so It has even a sliver of viability. I also have more fun math about how many thousands of gems you would need if this blueprint was your only real option.

 

[taiiat]

2 hours ago, inappropriatename5877 said:

The fact that almost every amp combo is crap, and only specific combos work well is enough to warrant using only certain combinations of equipment, which leaves little to no room for customization.

i said that spacekid has some requirements, but that the rest doesn't.
it's mainly Focus though, and no so much your Amp or spacekid Arcanes. Focus is where most of the Shield Phase Damage comes from. and you don't even have to do Eidolon Hunting to get Focus.

 

so, if we try listening to that this time, what you do for the Health Phase - whatever you like. there's so many choices. not to mention Helminth adding even more choices...
if you think there aren't any choices, stop listening to the bottom 90% of Players that don't know anything about the game. having the blind lead you is a way to, well, get nowhere.

telling people there's no options for the Health Phase is really just hilarious.
all you need for that Phase is Damage. what adds or increases Damage? or has Damage of its own? let's try and guess what things in the game might possibly do that.

[Uhkretor]

3 hours ago, inappropriatename5877 said:

considering that you have to have max standing with another syndicate to get them

Read the building requirements of this Necramech - https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Voidrig#Acquisition

Spoiler

Now Read the Rank and Loid's wares of this page - https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Necraloid

Spoiler

Now read the Rank and Otak's wares of this page - https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Entrati

Spoiler

Now read the Rank and Smokefinger's wares of this page - https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Solaris_United

Spoiler

Now read the Rank and Old Man Suumbat's wares of this page - https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Ostron

 

... Now tell me exactly how max standing they need to be to actually get a Voidrig...

 

Edit:

Also

3 hours ago, inappropriatename5877 said:

i'd still say that having Eidolons immediately accessible is a bad idea.

You can blame the moaners for that one. I was always against making Cetus and the Plains, and every consequential planetary hub and open area map that were released afterwards, immediately accessible.

[inappropriatename5877]

12 minutes ago, taiiat said:

telling people there's no options for the Health Phase is really just hilarious.
all you need for that Phase is Damage

Ah yes. Don't forget that players will want to deal the most damage possible, as fast as possible, as the game conditions you to play like that from the beginning (don't forget that the Eidolons are on  a time limit so a damage threshold exists if you want to be done with them within this limit) .
The Eidolons are weak to radiation, so you want that damage type. They also have damage resistance that limits your DPS, no matter your build. Naturally, you want a build that accounts for that as well. The options for enough damage in enough time are limited, and even more so limited if you plan to do multiple runs every night.
 

 

18 minutes ago, taiiat said:

it's mainly Focus though, and no so much your Amp or spacekid Arcanes

Sure, operator arcanes can be an afterthought. Focus tho is something different entirely. You have to farm extensively on ESO to get the millions of focus you need to unlock and unbind skills from skill trees, and to even begin farming focus well, you again need specific builds on specific frames that kill as many enemies as fast as possible so that you can get the most amount of focus asap (assuming you are using the best lens possible, which requires even more farming). All that for literally 2 skills, Unairu Wisp and the other one from Madurai. 
Also, amp combos DO matter. Anything other than crit chance (certus brace) is sub par and less efficient. Prisms and scaffolds may not be as important, sure, but some of them exploit the multiple hitboxes of eidolons, making them the obviously better choice, to the point of picking something else is a potential damage loss.

[inappropriatename5877]

8 minutes ago, Uhkretor said:

Read the building requirements of this Necramech - https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Voidrig#Acquisition

  Hide contents

Now Read the Rank and Loid's wares of this page - https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Necraloid

  Hide contents

Now read the Rank and Otak's wares of this page - https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Entrati

  Hide contents

Now read the Rank and Smokefinger's wares of this page - https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Solaris_United

  Hide contents

Now read the Rank and Old Man Suumbat's wares of this page - https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Ostron

 

... Now tell me exactly how max standing they need to be to actually get a Voidrig...

Yeah ok I made a mistake about the standing, but that's not the point of my post. Thanks for correcting me tho.

[Uhkretor]

12 minutes ago, inappropriatename5877 said:

Yeah ok I made a mistake about the standing, but that's not the point of my post. Thanks for correcting me tho.

No problem.

[Gamer_Auto]

53 minutes ago, Drasiel said:

As someone who has been locked out of eidolons until very recently by health problems (and I can still only do 3 teralysts in a row in one 24 hour period) you do not want to take the path of the exceptional cores crafting, trust me, if you can do eidolons at all it's the better option. In order just to rank up to max rank in quills you would need 372 sentirum and nyth respectively to convert the intact cores into exceptionals. That's without spending anything on buying actual quills items.

Since it's pertinent, let me just shill my thread about changing that blueprint to use different gems so It has even a sliver of viability. I also have more fun math about how many thousands of gems you would need if this blueprint was your only real option.

 

I'll have to post a reply in that thread. I think I have a reasonable change or two to suggest.

 

30 minutes ago, Uhkretor said:

I was always against making Cetus and the Plains, and every consequential planetary hub and open area map that were released afterwards, immediately accessible.

If I may ask, why? I think it's far better to have the ability to start the grind from early on. As I'm figuring out with the Relay Synds, this system is not designed for marathon grinding.

[taiiat]

36 minutes ago, inappropriatename5877 said:

Ah yes. Don't forget that players will want to deal the most damage possible, as fast as possible, as the game conditions you to play like that from the beginning (don't forget that the Eidolons are on  a time limit so a damage threshold exists if you want to be done with them within this limit) .
The Eidolons are weak to radiation, so you want that damage type. They also have damage resistance that limits your DPS, no matter your build. Naturally, you want a build that accounts for that as well. The options for enough damage in enough time are limited, and even more so limited if you plan to do multiple runs every night.

for someone that has little to no experience with Eidolon Hunting, you are quite picky, apparently.

you can complete each Health Phase in a second or two with.... well, a pretty wide range of ways to deal Damage. and completing Health Phases in that sort of timeframe, is plenty sufficient for completing 3 sets of Eidolons a night.
if you think there is only one way to deal Damage, it's only your creativity that is limiting you. while we can't use debuffs or CC on Eidolons, there's quite a few ways to make yourself do more Damage.

 

36 minutes ago, inappropriatename5877 said:

You have to farm extensively on ESO to get the millions of focus you need

again, no.
Onslaught is not the only way to get Focus. you can pickup Focus Crystals in normal Missions too, while you're doing other stuff.
or you can push pretty hard and dedicate certain Missions to Focus, if that's to your interest.
there's choices.

 

 

 

 

all in all, it sounds like you have a problem with not being the best, even at things you're not familiar with or don't like. that seems like an internal conflict you should try to resolve, or something. 
if you don't want to have the best possible thing, you don't have to be. a few sets a night isn't even stressful, and it's more about the competence level of the Players, than how "optimal" their Equipment is.
you can complete a few sets of Eidolons with all sorts of non standard stuff. a Buzlok? sure. a Grinlok? sure. a Ferrox? sure. a Bow? Lex? Euphona? Ballistica? Dex Pixia? Balefire? Paracesis? a Gunblade? using Ember for a Damage buffer? sure. Nyx as a Damage buffer? sure. Oberon as a mix of Damage buffer and ally protection? sure. Ivara to dab on everything from hundreds of Meters away? sure. Whipclaw or Shattered Lash? i haven't tried it but it might work.
i could go on for so long. and i'm not even considering Helminth yet.

Eidolon Hunting short on choices? no. is it as flexible as i'd like it to be as to what ways you can increase Damage? no, not quite. but it's pretty solid all things considered.

if you're not trying to set records, there's lots of things you can use. most of the elitists, are people that don't know enough about the game to know that there's other stuff that's good.

[Uhkretor]

Just now, Gamer_Auto said:

If I may ask, why?

Because, personally, it doesn't make sense to have them easily accessible as they are now in the star chart.

 

Also, my opinion on the matter is weightless, but I'm pretty sure the speed wouldn't be that different even if those areas remained locked behind "The War Within" like Cetus was at its release... Now, why am I not moaning throughout the forum with my personal opinion on the subject? Because those areas have 2 Syndicates, and players looking for an early grind into those syndicates will actually grind for half of the syndicates of each of those areas... Not my preference? No, it isn't but its a middle ground I can actually go along.

 

[inappropriatename5877]

19 minutes ago, taiiat said:

there's choices.

The choices you outlined are not nearly as fast or efficient as ESO, and when a player has a choice to lessen the grind for the same results, they will do so.

 

19 minutes ago, taiiat said:

you can complete a few sets of Eidolons with all sorts of non standard stuff

Or, here's an idea, use something that outperforms all of those and then some. Am I wrong to assume that people naturally want to maximize the reward while minimizing the effort? Isn't that what "efficiency" is when it comes to farming? While you have long missed the point of my post, you are still failing to understand that I'm talking about efficiency while farming. Yes, I can mod those weapons to kill Eidolons, sure, but I will still be less efficient than if I just used the current meta. I don't really know what you are trying to say here. If I bring a bow to an eidolon hunt, and before my projectile even hits the Synovia, the volt with the Rubico has already one shot it. This will naturally make me want a similar damage output so I can feel I'm doing something good for my team. Such a damage output cannot be accomplished with the weapons you provided.

it's not about setting records, it's about lessening the grind as much as possible in order to get what you want as painlessly as possible.

[Gamer_Auto]

16 minutes ago, Uhkretor said:

Because, personally, it doesn't make sense to have them easily accessible as they are now in the star chart.

 

Also, my opinion on the matter is weightless, but I'm pretty sure the speed wouldn't be that different even if those areas remained locked behind "The War Within" like Cetus was at its release... Now, why am I not moaning throughout the forum with my personal opinion on the subject? Because those areas have 2 Syndicates, and players looking for an early grind into those syndicates will actually grind for half of the syndicates of each of those areas... Not my preference? No, it isn't but its a middle ground I can actually go along.

 

See, I can understand that War Within/Second Dream check for the Necralisk and the Drift. That's pretty spoiler-y stuff if you're not caught up on the jist of the lore and story. But Cetus and Fortuna? I honestly don't see a problem to having The Ostrons and Solaris United as readily available Synds while The Quills and Vox Solaris are locked behind War Within/Second Dream.
Cetus is already a node on the way to early game progression, and you're going to have to learn about the planet-side hubs and open world maps at some point. Plus, unlocking Cetus through its quest gets you a really good Warframe to take into the mid-game (Gara). And Fortuna is technically optional! It's not at all on the main path to Mercury (unless the Relay requirements got updated when I wasn't looking). And Fortuna gives you a pretty neat Frame to play around with during mid-game (Garuda).

Additionally, I don't think you'd want to do even Terry without at least Voidkid Unibeam. You'd be useless to your teammates, and would just keep getting slammed by even Terry's attacks. I think it's perfectly reasonable to have a voice clip advise Non-Op Tenno to return to Cetus at night. That, and potentially move the Tridolon Bounties to Onkko's menus.

[taiiat]

57 minutes ago, inappropriatename5877 said:

The choices you outlined are not nearly as fast or efficient as ESO, and when a player has a choice to lessen the grind for the same results, they will do so.

well, then go do that, it's hardly any time to ask of you anyways. go cap your daily Focus in the 1, 2 tops Waves of Onslaught it takes. spend your just shy of 5 Minutes a day.

52 minutes ago, inappropriatename5877 said:

Or, here's an idea, use something that outperforms all of those and then some. Am I wrong to assume that people naturally want to maximize the reward while minimizing the effort?

If I bring a bow to an eidolon hunt, and before my projectile even hits the Synovia, the volt with the Rubico has already one shot it.

you can complete the Health Phases in one second or less with any of those.
there's no relevant performance difference between some of them unless you're trying to set records.
really, this is is, apparently, all about you not being able to get over yourself. 

the scenario you just described isn't as efficient as it possibly could be, you're now a hypocrite. there's only one person that fires a single shot for the Health Phases in these theoretical "optimal" Squads that you insist is the only possible way to play as. nobody else should be attacking at all, it's a waste of time and reduces efficiency.
so by your own metric, if you don't like the Equipment choices for the Health Phases, just take one of the other roles, and you don't have to attack the Eidolons at all during the entire Mission.

 

figure out where your goalposts are, and leave them in one place.

[inappropriatename5877]

48 minutes ago, taiiat said:

well, then go do that, it's hardly any time to ask of you anyways. go cap your daily Focus in the 1, 2 tops Waves of Onslaught it takes. spend your just shy of 5 Minutes a day.

you can complete the Health Phases in one second or less with any of those.
there's no relevant performance difference between some of them unless you're trying to set records.
really, this is is, apparently, all about you not being able to get over yourself. 

the scenario you just described isn't as efficient as it possibly could be, you're now a hypocrite. there's only one person that fires a single shot for the Health Phases in these theoretical "optimal" Squads that you insist is the only possible way to play as. nobody else should be attacking at all, it's a waste of time and reduces efficiency.
so by your own metric, if you don't like the Equipment choices for the Health Phases, just take one of the other roles, and you don't have to attack the Eidolons at all during the entire Mission.

 

figure out where your goalposts are, and leave them in one place.

Ok I'm stopping our discussion here cause you have not only completely missed the point of the post, you have also derailed the discussion and you have not understood my point even then. You clearly have a skewed view of the argument I'm trying to make and you put zero effort in understanding it, so I see no point in continuing to converse with you any longer.

[Drasiel]

1 hour ago, Gamer_Auto said:

See, I can understand that War Within/Second Dream check for the Necralisk and the Drift. That's pretty spoiler-y stuff if you're not caught up on the jist of the lore and story. But Cetus and Fortuna? I honestly don't see a problem to having The Ostrons and Solaris United as readily available Synds while The Quills and Vox Solaris are locked behind War Within/Second Dream.
Cetus is already a node on the way to early game progression, and you're going to have to learn about the planet-side hubs and open world maps at some point. Plus, unlocking Cetus through its quest gets you a really good Warframe to take into the mid-game (Gara). And Fortuna is technically optional! It's not at all on the main path to Mercury (unless the Relay requirements got updated when I wasn't looking). And Fortuna gives you a pretty neat Frame to play around with during mid-game (Garuda).

Additionally, I don't think you'd want to do even Terry without at least Voidkid Unibeam. You'd be useless to your teammates, and would just keep getting slammed by even Terry's attacks. I think it's perfectly reasonable to have a voice clip advise Non-Op Tenno to return to Cetus at night. That, and potentially move the Tridolon Bounties to Onkko's menus.

There's actually another reason it would be better to gate cetus a little farther in progression. Tusk Grineer have different base stats and scaling than normal grineer, they are a lot tougher and deal more damage than their level implies they would. It's a really nasty trick that faces new players when they hit cetus and go "why are these level 10 enemies wrecking me so hard?" when stats wise the enemies are performing at levels closer to 20.  It's even worse when paired with the Day night mechanic. Most late game players don't bother with bounties when it's night as they have eidolon hunting to do but you can still run bounties even at night although that means the grineer are higher level because night was decided to need to be more dangerous and unwelcoming to newer players (unless this was changed and I didn't notice). I'd personally like to see Cetus and the plains locked behind the Jupiter junction. Upon clearing the junction you would get a letter requesting aid on cetus and boom it dovetails nicely into sayas vigil and the players should all be geared enough to at least properly start working through the syndicate and facing those level lying tusk grineer.

[Gamer_Auto]

2 minutes ago, Drasiel said:

There's actually another reason it would be better to gate cetus a little farther in progression. Tusk Grineer have different base stats and scaling than normal grineer, they are a lot tougher and deal more damage than their level implies they would. It's a really nasty trick that faces new players when they hit cetus and go "why are these level 10 enemies wrecking me so hard?" when stats wise the enemies are performing at levels closer to 20.  It's even worse when paired with the Day night mechanic. Most late game players don't bother with bounties when it's night as they have eidolon hunting to do but you can still run bounties even at night although that means the grineer are higher level because night was decided to need to be more dangerous and unwelcoming to newer players (unless this was changed and I didn't notice). I'd personally like to see Cetus and the plains locked behind the Jupiter junction. Upon clearing the junction you would get a letter requesting aid on cetus and boom it dovetails nicely into sayas vigil and the players should all be geared enough to at least properly start working through the syndicate and facing those level lying tusk grineer.

I'll be completely honest with you:
I started Warframe back before Cetus was a thing, but it was killing the old clunker I ran it on, so I dropped it and only picked it back up just after Fortuna arrived. So, while I struggled with Fortuna's intro quest, I honestly had no trouble with Cetus'. I think I was already finishing up Mercury and on my way into Mars when I did it. I also may have done it at a point prior to Cetus getting some kind of buff in difficulty? I'm not sure, it's been a while and a lot has happened since then. But one thing I do know is that, in a group (even a pub one) a level 5 - 15 player won't have trouble with the earliest Bounties, and can always come back to tackle the others if they don't feel confident enough. Thus what I said about Syndicates all being a gradual grind than a marathon grind.

When it comes to Operator stuff, I absolutely agree that it needs to be gated to people that haven't experienced that part of the story yet (to quote a show: 😡"NO SPOILERS!"😁).

When it comes to the Day/Night mechanic (and the alternates on Venus and Deimos), I think if we were to change it, we could make it locked to using the Star Chart to bypass Cetus. Or, failing that, make it locked at whatever time it was at when you created a new Plains Instance. Maybe certain Bounties (Tridolon) need to be accessed via certain NPCs, so that you and the party can teleport to a dedicated instance.

IDK. I'm not good at balancing stuff. I'm just good at experiencing it. This is just spit-ballin'.