Why the Orokin can return and why the Elder queen can't.

[Atsia]

Where was Kuva said to be required to make a Cephalon?

[(PSN)Unstar]

I think there's a problem with one of your premises, though.  Stating that the Elder Queen hasn't revived yet seems like a rather large assumption without any evidence to back it up.  Just because we haven't seen her doesn't mean the revival process hasn't happened yet.  It might even be the case that we have seen her, and just don't realize that it's her because she hasn't revealed herself.

[Dairaion]

On 2021-06-17 at 11:58 AM, TheArcSet said:

An idle thought: it turned out that the Grinneer were still unknowingly Orokin slaves.

 

 Would it be ironic if the same were true of the Ostron and Quills?

The grineer that were capable of understanding likely didn’t care, modern grineer culture was formed by 2 women that had been outcasts of orokin birth, which means what? Nothing? The orokin body hopped constantly, there was likely no founding orokin gene pool. They then, upon taking control of the grineer, established a meritocracy. I’m sure the grineer wouldn’t consider themselves slaves.

 

the quills however can perceive the future and the state of reality, there would be no way they didn’t know unless some orokin had ascended beyond normal human consciousness and became a elder god out of mortal kombat.

[Kaotyke]

5 hours ago, Atsia said:

Where was Kuva said to be required to make a Cephalon?

Ordis' entries.

"He holds a red vial in his hand. Impossible!"

"He calls out 'No greater gift. No greater prize. No greater love, Ordan, we can give you, than this...' He hold the red vial and proclaims '...to be one of us'."

(...)

"And so the dream returns. One last repetition. My corpse moon, my cracked visor, my scarlet sword... 'Drink' says Ballas. And so I drawn on the red vial, a vague metalic taste. This dream isnt mine. 'You refuse our gift, bathing in our death. Your punishment is... eternal life' he laughs."

[TheArcSet]

11 hours ago, 0_The_F00l said:

There is a possibility of kuva existing before the void breach , but it is not a certainty.

True, but with no other known method of achieving immortality, kuva is probably the safest bet as to the method used.

And like he said, no matter how many lives they have, if the sun dies and the system becomes inhospitable to life, everything in it will eventually die, as they run out of energy and resources; assuming they even survive the sun's death throws.

[0_The_F00l]

3 minutes ago, TheArcSet said:

True, but with no other known method of achieving immortality, kuva is probably the safest better as to the method used.

I already mentioned other methods which are possible , and how i think his immortality is romanticized not literal.

3 minutes ago, TheArcSet said:

And like he said, no matter how many lives they have, if the sun dies and the system becomes inhospitable to life, everything in it will eventually die, as they run out of energy and resources; assuming they even survive the sun's death throws.

This is true irrespective of the existence of kuva. Without void travel they wouldnt have been able to reach other hospitable regions to terraform or exploit.

[TheArcSet]

2 hours ago, Dairaion said:

The grineer that were capable of understanding likely didn’t care, modern grineer culture was formed by 2 women that had been outcasts of orokin birth, which means what? Nothing? The orokin body hopped constantly, there was likely no founding orokin gene pool. They then, upon taking control of the grineer, established a meritocracy. I’m sure the grineer wouldn’t consider themselves slaves.

the quills however can perceive the future and the state of reality, there would be no way they didn’t know unless some orokin had ascended beyond normal human consciousness and became a elder god out of mortal kombat.

The Grineer certainly considered themselves slaves before, despite the Orokin intending for them to be too mentally deficient to understand that; apart from the fact that they all toil for the queens, instead of for the old empire, I'm not sure the situation of the average Grineer has changed much; they live to work and except in very unusual circumstances, work until death.

As for the Quills knowledge of potential futures, it comes directly from the Orokin tower, which I speculated might house many Orokin minds.

 

I don't think this is a likely route for the story to go down, but I don't think it's currently impossible either.

[TheArcSet]

6 hours ago, Atsia said:

Where was Kuva said to be required to make a Cephalon?

Ballas made Ordis drink the kuva, before converting him; saying that his punishment for rejecting the invitation to become an Orokin, would be eternal life.

[TheArcSet]

4 hours ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

I think there's a problem with one of your premises, though.  Stating that the Elder Queen hasn't revived yet seems like a rather large assumption without any evidence to back it up.  Just because we haven't seen her doesn't mean the revival process hasn't happened yet.  It might even be the case that we have seen her, and just don't realize that it's her because she hasn't revealed herself.

Yep.

I was actually unaware that her sister sometimes talks about reviving her and getting closer to that; so my assumption that we had prevented it, because she hadn't returned and her sister had taken charge, was in fact wrong.

[Atsia]

23 hours ago, TheArcSet said:

Ballas made Ordis drink the kuva, before converting him; saying that his punishment for rejecting the invitation to become an Orokin, would be eternal life.

That....doesn't really imply you need Kuva for a Cephalon though? At least, I don't see how it does, beyond them giving him the Kuva just to stop him from dying right then and there from blood loss.

[TheArcSet]

21 hours ago, Atsia said:

That....doesn't really imply you need Kuva for a Cephalon though? At least, I don't see how it does, beyond them giving him the Kuva just to stop him from dying right then and there from blood loss.

Well, if my theory was right, Yes, it could be used just to stop him dying, otherwise, kuva would just be  a transfer medium, to either a body or machine.

Still, given the cultural significance of kuva, that doesn't seem incredibly likely.

But yes, it's not impossible.

 

Before the glassmaker, for a very long time, the only thing we knew about making a cephalon was that, in the one instance we knew about, kuva was used.

It may have been used solely to transfer his mind to a new body and later generations of cephalon may not have needed this, with the vitrification process.

Still, the idea predated vitrification and has kind of been grandfathered in to warframe for many years.