Void Cascade needs a total overhaul

[(PSN)shiwan8]

6 hours ago, TheArmchairThinker said:

Are perhaps, taking void cascade mission from Quinn? That's called bounties with a secondary objectives that in no way hidden with no possible way to complete

You can do the mission from the elevator if you want to run the mission only, no secondary objectives

Lastly, Void Cascade is in no way hard

- Clear the fissures

- Hit the manifestation

- Defend exolizers until it's depleted (kill enemies in zone to hasten the process)

- Keep purged exolizer more than possessed to keep the level down. 3 purged to 2 possessed is enough to keep it going down

What part you don't understand?

Yes, because there can be no possible reason to not do that. The same mission with just 1 variable, better rewards. Everyone should do that every time. There is no possible reason to not do it that way, no benefit from picking the mission as is. I thought this was obvious but that's on me. It's the internet, we have 7% of our communication utilities in use, mistakes are bound to happen.

I will never skip on relevant rewards because it saves me 10 seconds of time between missions.

Basic cascade, if you just want to complete the mission, it is easy. True.

I don't get why I should do the same work and get less rewards because the design is bad.

[(PSN)shiwan8]

4 hours ago, taiiat said:

idk, Equip full Mod Loadouts, have a decent Spacekid, Et Cetera
because that's all i could remotely guess is why you can't complete the Mission.

or maybe you're playing the game with DK Bongos or a bunch of Bananas, and in that case use normal Input Hardware instead.

Everything is optimized. That does not let me do the job of 2 players at the same time.

[TheArmchairThinker]

3 minutes ago, (PSN)shiwan8 said:

Yes, because there can be no possible reason to not do that. The same mission with just 1 variable, better rewards. Everyone should do that every time. There is no possible reason to not do it that way, no benefit from picking the mission as is. I thought this was obvious but that's on me. It's the internet, we have 7% of our communication utilities in use, mistakes are bound to happen.

I will never skip on relevant rewards because it saves me 10 seconds of time between missions.

Basic cascade, if you just want to complete the mission, it is easy. True.

I don't get why I should do the same work and get less rewards because the design is bad.

You said that, then you complain about this

19 hours ago, (PSN)shiwan8 said:

Clear mission design. Meaning clear objectives of which exactly none are something like the current void cascade bounty in which you are practically alone, you have to protect the discoballs 2-3 at a time AND search for an accolade that can be anywhere. If there is a ”do this and that at the same time” thing or any other sort of time restriction there can not be any other side gigs that will lead to failure except by a rare accident. The current design needs a total overhaul because of that existing. There are other problems too but that alone is enough to warrant it. 

Clearly you're not ready for that yet so why insist to overhaul? I'm sure people are not having a problem with this

[(PSN)shiwan8]

1 hour ago, Cerikus said:

What other bounty tasks make the cascade impossible to finish

Because the rest was pointless to anyone who completed the quest, I'll answer this. The cascade needs attention, constantly. Letting it be after the first 4 pylons leads to failure every time. Regardless of you being alone or in a group, YOU are the one player who has to take care of that. At the same time YOU have to kill find and kill the angel or find an accolade and deliver it. You can't do both. If you go to find and fight the angel or to search for the accolade, the cascade fails. If you take care of the cascade, it being endless, it will fail at some point which is fine in the plain mission, but since you will have a bounty, there whole mission fails at that point.

tl;dr; You can't do the bounty AND the mission because no matter the group type you chose to go there with YOU are the only one playing the mission while everyone else just runs around doing nothing useful.

[(PSN)shiwan8]

1 hour ago, Frendh said:

No, you do not have to look everywhere. Void angels can only spawn in certain rooms (EDIT: You get a waypoint to the void angel when it is required for the mission!). Usually three rooms per mission. Easy to find because they are gigantic compared to all other rooms. Accolades have a sound effect when you get close and they seem to always spawn within a certain distance from the pink stations.  If you refuse to practice and learn to improve then I suggest you invest 20p and get the Parallax orbiter. It has an ability that will way point plumes, accolades, ayatan sculptures, somechords, cephalon fragments, kurias and probably warframe fighter scannables. 500m radius I think. Find a pink station, hit scan. Never tried it, but guessing that should do it.

All that information I got just by playing the game. You can probably find out more details by doing proper research.

If I solo those missions regularly I will probably fail occasionally. But not enough to warrant an overhaul. You should be used to this already, you have 4k hours in the game. 

I am not opposed to tweaking the mission. But tweaking numbers is NOT the same as an overhaul.

Yes, and there are multiples of those in every mission and that means that you have to search for the rooms and the angels. You do not have the time, even with the waypoint. The sound effect is grouped with combat sounds and it's faint, so if you have any sort of actual action going on you just will not hear that.

There is a wall rooster ability that would help here, it would actually be great, but it has a ridiculous cooldown time which means that it's useless. I can't say I know how the orbiter ability works but if it does not fix on the mission critical things first it's useless. There is a plume closer than the accolade, almost certainly. Even if it worked perfectly you would still have to find the station which takes time that you do not have because the cascade is going to fail during that search.

We are not talking about this in the context of the first bounty. This is about the last one.

DE does not do tweaks. They make changes that change everything that is related to the change. It's easier to to just call it what they do than to ask for a minor change that would do the trick because they would never make that change.

[(PSN)shiwan8]

17 minutes ago, TheArmchairThinker said:

You said that, then you complain about this

Clearly you're not ready for that yet so why insist to overhaul? I'm sure people are not having a problem with this

Nobody is ready for that. It can't be soloed except by accident. There is no skill requirement to participate in the bounty so it is a solo mission regardless of you having other people there or not.

[Cerikus]

14 minutes ago, (PSN)shiwan8 said:

Because the rest was pointless to anyone who completed the quest, I'll answer this. The cascade needs attention, constantly. Letting it be after the first 4 pylons leads to failure every time. Regardless of you being alone or in a group, YOU are the one player who has to take care of that. At the same time YOU have to kill find and kill the angel or find an accolade and deliver it. You can't do both. If you go to find and fight the angel or to search for the accolade, the cascade fails. If you take care of the cascade, it being endless, it will fail at some point which is fine in the plain mission, but since you will have a bounty, there whole mission fails at that point.

tl;dr; You can't do the bounty AND the mission because no matter the group type you chose to go there with YOU are the only one playing the mission while everyone else just runs around doing nothing useful.

Sure, don't answer my questions and ignore my explanations just so you can continue to say nobody gives you an explanation.

Can you tell me, how is it possible that I can easily finish the cascade bounty with any bounty task, when it's (as you said) impossible?

If you don't want to play a gamemode that's not possible to solve by monke with bramma, go play survival or defense or mobile defense or whatever. (Zariman Exterminate and MD is right there for you.)
But don't ask DE to change a super fun active (yet simple) gamemode that most people like, because you refuse to learn how to do it properly.

tl;dr: You can do the bounty and the mission (solo or in a group) as long as you use your prefrontal cortex to figure out the correct strategy.

[Frendh]

30 minutes ago, Cerikus said:

tl;dr: You can do the bounty and the mission (solo or in a group) as long as you use your prefrontal cortex to figure out the correct strategy.

We can be civil even if we disagree with each other.

[Cerikus]

13 minutes ago, Frendh said:

We can be civil even if we disagree with each other.

I agree. I don't understand what you mean.

What is not civil about saying that you can succeed in the bounty if you use the part of the brain that's responsible for planning and decision making?

[mycroft_]

3 minutes ago, Cerikus said:

I don't understand what you mean.

What is not civil about saying that you can succeed in the bounty if you use the part of the brain that's responsible for planning and decision making?

You would understand if you used literally any part of your brain - if you have one.

Brain stem, even. That would be plenty.

~

Was that civil? Or was it rude?

[Cerikus]

3 minutes ago, mycroft_ said:

You would understand if you used literally any part of your brain - if you have one.

Brain stem, even. That would be plenty.

~

Was that civil? Or was it rude?

Well, English is not my native language, but I am pretty sure there is a difference between what I said and what you gave as an example.

I specifically didn't say "use your brain" or "use any part of your brain". I also didn't imply that OP didn't use brain or that they lack one. I simply said that using a specific part of your brain that's responsible for certain brain functions can help you succeed in a gamemode like Cascade. If the gamemode was different, I would suggest different brain center perhaps.

For example: If OP was unhappy, because they would not be able to pick up something from the ground using their feet, suggesting using their hands wouldn't be rude.

[Frendh]

23 minutes ago, Cerikus said:

What is not civil about saying that you can succeed in the bounty if you use the part of the brain that's responsible for planning and decision making?

That sentence implied he was not doing just that. Pretty much the same as calling someone stupid.

[Cerikus]

5 minutes ago, Frendh said:

That sentence implied he was not doing just that. Pretty much the same as calling someone stupid.

No, it's not. Saying "use your brain" is the same as calling someone stupid. I did not do anything like that.
What I said implies that OP is thinking about the gamemode incorrectly, i.e. using incorrect way of thinking, which is something I tried to convey to them in a dozen different ways already throughout this thread. Yet OP always ignored the guidance or suggestions I offered and instead nitpicked stuff they were able to contradict. They also failed to exlpain what exactly is the problem for them. 

[mycroft_]

5 hours ago, Cerikus said:

OP always ignored...also failed to explain

You really enjoy bickering, huh?

[Cerikus]

1 hour ago, mycroft_ said:

You really enjoy bickering, huh?

Yes.

[Monolake]

15 hours ago, (PSN)shiwan8 said:

Ok. So, what’s your solution to not having time to do the bare minimum the mission requires? Groups are not that. If I had another me or better to play with then there would not be a problem. I can solo the pylons long enough for the other me or better to search for the accolade. That’s fine. Most players can barely deal with the scythe guys while going 3 to 1 on them.

 

other than the guns being 100% useless the tower defense is fine, in my opinion. It has phases. It’s not quick but it does not expect you to solo multiple things of which a player regardless of skill level can only solo one.

Your problem is with the specific bounty where you need to also find the accolade? They are typically in the same area or the next room to the Cephalon console and you just pay attention to the sound - they emit loud hissing noise,  you should have plenty of time to do it. Also bring some aoe weapon (Ignis will do) to destroy all the containers to clear loot markers on your radar making it easier to see on the map.

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Zarium_Accolade

And really you dont have to do it solo if you dont like to -  cause its on a very tight time limit. Just ignore it and do other bounties that are quicker and easier to do.

[TheArmchairThinker]

11 hours ago, (PSN)shiwan8 said:

Nobody is ready for that. It can't be soloed except by accident. There is no skill requirement to participate in the bounty so it is a solo mission regardless of you having other people there or not.

But you failed without any skill, don't you? That means you need some skill to do it or having teammates

[Monolake]

Btw there was just a bounty with Cascade + Kill angel requirement and I tried to do it solo for the test with deliberately subpar loadout (no AOE or incarnon weapons, no Voidstrike to skip Angel, no OP frames)  and I could do it solo with no stress no issues - just clear 2 exolizers then run to the angel and beat him with melee, by the time I was done I still had ~40% of the bar so I could finish exolizers no rush. 

If you want to optimize it then use some armor-removing on the angel an thraxes (ie Unairu operator skill, gunblade with Shattering impact, Ash seeking shuriken etc). Having good amp with arcanes also helps but you can do it with Sirocco, maybe takes 15 seconds longer.

[(PSN)shiwan8]

16 hours ago, Cerikus said:

Sure, don't answer my questions and ignore my explanations just so you can continue to say nobody gives you an explanation.

Can you tell me, how is it possible that I can easily finish the cascade bounty with any bounty task, when it's (as you said) impossible?

If you don't want to play a gamemode that's not possible to solve by monke with bramma, go play survival or defense or mobile defense or whatever. (Zariman Exterminate and MD is right there for you.)
But don't ask DE to change a super fun active (yet simple) gamemode that most people like, because you refuse to learn how to do it properly.

tl;dr: You can do the bounty and the mission (solo or in a group) as long as you use your prefrontal cortex to figure out the correct strategy.

I see no reason to react to your statements on how the missions play because that is not the issue here.

Pure luck. I would suggest skill but there is no skill involved in the bounties with the time limit. You either find the relevant things or you don’t find them and it’s just luck if they happen to be on your way from point a to point b. It’s also pure luck to come across a group that does it’s job. Just went through 24 pylon cascade with just 1 other guy and if failed exactly and for no other reason than because DE can’t get the bugs fixed. It was a successful mission, everything was done, we had time to leave and the bug just made it a failure. That’s what happens when there is more than 1 person playing the mission...which almost never happens. That difference between 1 player almost auto failure and 2 nice success just shows that the design does not work. It requires teamwork and the community is not capable of that. Hence the overhaul...

 

look. I get it. You are offended. The facts are still the facts. Your feelings are irrelevant in this context just like mine are too. It just is what it is.

 

[(PSN)shiwan8]

16 hours ago, taiiat said:

nobody else here has any problems doing what you say is impossible.
nobody has any idea what you're Talking about.

so, have fun with that i guess.

I think people are smarter than you give them credit for.

[(PSN)shiwan8]

15 hours ago, Frendh said:

We can be civil even if we disagree with each other.

You can’t teach people who refuse to learn even the basics of human interaction.

[(PSN)shiwan8]

15 hours ago, Cerikus said:

No, it's not. Saying "use your brain" is the same as calling someone stupid. I did not do anything like that.
What I said implies that OP is thinking about the gamemode incorrectly, i.e. using incorrect way of thinking, which is something I tried to convey to them in a dozen different ways already throughout this thread. Yet OP always ignored the guidance or suggestions I offered and instead nitpicked stuff they were able to contradict. They also failed to exlpain what exactly is the problem for them. 

You have given me no new information. If any of what you have said had changed the parameters of the dilemma I would have thanked you and called this done. The problem persists. You have to uphold 2 or 3 pylons while fighting the angel across the map or trying to find the accolade. That can’t be done except by accident. 

[(PSN)shiwan8]

7 hours ago, Monolake said:

Your problem is with the specific bounty where you need to also find the accolade? They are typically in the same area or the next room to the Cephalon console and you just pay attention to the sound - they emit loud hissing noise,  you should have plenty of time to do it. Also bring some aoe weapon (Ignis will do) to destroy all the containers to clear loot markers on your radar making it easier to see on the map.

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Zarium_Accolade

And really you dont have to do it solo if you dont like to -  cause its on a very tight time limit. Just ignore it and do other bounties that are quicker and easier to do.

Any bounty that demands me to do something not related to protecting the pylons while protecting the pylons is a practical auto fail. 

 

I really am doing it solo even when there are more players in the group because most players can’t keep the pylons up.

[(PSN)shiwan8]

5 hours ago, TheArmchairThinker said:

But you failed without any skill, don't you? That means you need some skill to do it or having teammates

With no less relevant skills than literally any other player in the game because there is no skill involved in this. How do teammates fix the problem when they can’t do even the basic part of the mission? I am not kidding, every cascade save 4 or 5 that I have played now (some dozens) would have failed if I had not kept the pylons up. I am not saying that I would be great. I am saying that most players can’t do the bare minimum.

[(PSN)shiwan8]

5 hours ago, Monolake said:

Btw there was just a bounty with Cascade + Kill angel requirement and I tried to do it solo for the test with deliberately subpar loadout (no AOE or incarnon weapons, no Voidstrike to skip Angel, no OP frames)  and I could do it solo with no stress no issues - just clear 2 exolizers then run to the angel and beat him with melee, by the time I was done I still had ~40% of the bar so I could finish exolizers no rush. 

If you want to optimize it then use some armor-removing on the angel an thraxes (ie Unairu operator skill, gunblade with Shattering impact, Ash seeking shuriken etc). Having good amp with arcanes also helps but you can do it with Sirocco, maybe takes 15 seconds longer.

Ok, so you had luck on your side. You did not have to travel to the other side of the map and back again. Awesome. Now, imagine running a minute to the angel, fighting it around a minute max, running back and having 5 pylons to deal with. Better yet, imagine going for a 10 minute search for the accolade. It can’t be done. The design does not allow that.