Please Have Simaris Hold Most Of The Flawed Mods Because Many Are Useful Or Hard to Get The Normal Counterparts Of

[(PSN)Rainbow_Neos1]

So I've decided to experience Warframe again through watching my buddy play through it because as someone who's kinda end game, I wanted to see the new player experience again to ground myself bc I noticed I've sorta gotten disconnected from the average player experience. In doing so I noticed something that I've heard mention of before but kinda gave little credence to in the past:

Flawed Mods, even later in the game, can be very useful. They allow more build variety and efficiency. I made sure, despite not giving him too much advice bc learning stuff by himself is what he likes, that I told him not to sell those due to never being able to get them again. I find it a little frustrating that I even have to do that. Why should a player suffer even slightly because they aren't being watched by a late-game player? Considering many people likely sold them way back when without realizing their potential (I certainly did because they felt like clutter which I don't like) and many will do so in the future, I propose Simaris be given them for 25k or 50k standing each. He houses all the one-time items: the items you can't get again. Considering you can't trade these flawed mods, I suggest he be given them. It's frustrating to miss out on something because you weren't aware something was good when you were new. This is often the sentiment which people hold that causes DE to add something to Simaris. Giving an option to get them again would be a good idea. 

 

 

Edit: For those who don't realize, many of the flawed mods give more than their normal counterparts at the respective polarity costs. These pictures show that. Please go check them all out! Flawed Mods are useful. Stretch, Flow, Streamline, Intensify, Serration, Redirection, Steel Fiber,  Continuity and more follow this.

Flawed Vitality, Pressure Point, Equilibrium, and a couple others do not follow this. They're directly, at all polarity costs, equal to or worse than their normal counterparts. Such mods have no purpose being added to Simaris other than for the players who can't seem to get the normal one (like equilibrium). 

 

 

 

 

 

[quxier]

12 minutes ago, (PSN)Rainbow_Neos1 said:

Flawed Mods, even later in the game, can be very useful. They allow more build variety and efficiency.

Why not just not fully upgrade normal mods? Some even offer some more % (e.g. rank 3 vitality flawed is 120% but normal is 160%).

[CephalonOlphus]

How are they more useful than normal mods? you can't stack them with normal ones, and if you're trying to get less of a stat then there's nothing stopping you form using an unranked or low ranked normal mod.

[Hobie-wan]

I wouldn't say no. I still have 1 or 2 of them and noticed that the efficiency on one of them at a middle rank was better than  a normal one. I was going to go see if any new players wanted to trade up flawed for normal version and then noticed they weren't tradable. I can understand to some degree so nobody makes the mistake of trading platinum for a flawed version of a mod when they're new, but still. Having them at Simaris should prevent people from accidentally acquiring them.

[(PSN)Rainbow_Neos1]

13 minutes ago, quxier said:

Why not just not fully upgrade normal mods? Some even offer some more % (e.g. rank 3 vitality flawed is 120% but normal is 160%).

Because many are more cost effective than their normal counterparts both in percent gained per rank and in polarity cost.

Vitality is one of the ones that is directly better than its flawed counterpart. 

Stretch, Flow, And Serration that I show here are some. Even Steel Fiber is that way. 

 

[Hobie-wan]

2 minutes ago, Olphus said:

if you're trying to get less of a stat then there's nothing stopping you form using an unranked or low ranked normal mod.

There's at least 1 instance where a partially modded flawed mod is more efficient.

[quxier]

6 minutes ago, (PSN)Rainbow_Neos1 said:

Because many are more cost effective than their normal counterparts both in percent gained per rank and in polarity cost.

That's barely visible. Flawed mods are bad to begin with.

Percent gained may be worse but you can just upgrade normal to next rank. Any problem with that?

Polarity cost is like +1. If you are formaing stuffs then you won't see difference in most cases (if it's from odd to even change).

[(PSN)Rainbow_Neos1]

8 minutes ago, quxier said:

That's barely visible. Flawed mods are bad to begin with.

Percent gained may be worse but you can just upgrade normal to next rank. Any problem with that?

Polarity cost is like +1. If you are formaing stuffs then you won't see difference in most cases (if it's from odd to even change).

This is for early mid players, dude. They may accidentally sell them. And they ARE more cost efficient. You call them bad but a flawed flow at polarity cost 5 gives 72% energy while normal gives 50%. They fit in builds better for a more impactful effect than their normal counterparts at the same rank. Why are you against this? Is maximum available efficiency not a right every player should have? 

[(PSN)Rainbow_Neos1]

18 minutes ago, Olphus said:

How are they more useful than normal mods? you can't stack them with normal ones, and if you're trying to get less of a stat then there's nothing stopping you form using an unranked or low ranked normal mod.

Refer to my now edited post. You'll see flawed mods can be better.

[quxier]

4 minutes ago, (PSN)Rainbow_Neos1 said:

This is for early mid players, dude. They may accidentally sell them. And they ARE more cost efficient. You call them bad but a flawed flow at polarity cost 5 gives 72% energy while normal gives 50%. They fit in builds better for a more impactful effect than their normal counterparts at the same rank. Why are you against this?

I just don't like idea of flawed mods. I think they should just give or let player farm normal mods easily. This way you can see limits and act accordingly. With flawed mods you see something like 60% Crit chance. You slap to your 20% crit chance weapon and see 32%. You go to mission and see... nothing changes.

And for not new players... they just should use normal version.

[(PSN)Rainbow_Neos1]

14 minutes ago, quxier said:

I just don't like idea of flawed mods. I think they should just give or let player farm normal mods easily. This way you can see limits and act accordingly. With flawed mods you see something like 60% Crit chance. You slap to your 20% crit chance weapon and see 32%. You go to mission and see... nothing changes.

And for not new players... they just should use normal version.

So you just don't like it? Despite the numbers being more efficient for not forma builds? That's why you're against it? Polarity efficiency is vital for anyone who doesn't have a bunch of formas in all their frames. As a late player, yeah, I have all my frames formad. But what about the not privileged players with everything who lack almost everything we have? 

 

If my frame only has a polarity cost left of 5, why should I use the base flow if flawed is better? It's number crunching. Even mid players can use them but not if they sold them because they didn't recognize their potential. 

[Uhkretor]

... I fail to understand how flawed mods contribute to "build diversity", as build diversity is preferential per player... But don't try to explain it either, because I'll just deny any possible understanding...

 

Here's the thing... New players barely need flawed mods, yet they are given to introduce players to the modding system... First steps and all... They were never intended for use beyond, at most, Ceres and that is easily proven by how minimizing the bonus effect is when people start adding other mods... And the speed that players can get normal version of those mods before Mars is outstandingly fast...

The use of flawed mods will provide less efficiency from any weapon and/or warframe when compared to the same weapon and/or warframe that's using the normal versions.

 

... Less mod capacity used per mod? Sure, ok... But even the screenshots you so elegantly provided clearly show that the lower mod capacity does not compensate for the lack of power... And lets not forget that those new players will want to do the same content veterans already do, in which they take the Flawed mods and its clearly shown how irrelevant they actually are.... Which leads them to find the normal versions of those mods, effectively discarding Flawed mods from any use... Which takes me to the single existential fact regarding Flawed mods to anyone else that has completed the tutorial quest...

• Flawed mods are Tutorial Mods.
  • When their use is expired by natural game progression, normal mods always replace them
  • Flawed mods are effectively collection mods and used as bragging rights for owning them.

 

I don't think I've mentioned this before, but I fail to understand how - - oh wait, it's in the very first line of this post....

[quxier]

28 minutes ago, (PSN)Rainbow_Neos1 said:

So you just don't like it? Despite the numbers being more efficient for not forma builds? That's why you're against it? Polarity efficiency is vital for anyone who doesn't have a bunch of formas in all their frames. As a late player, yeah, I have all my frames formad. But what about the not privileged players with everything who lack almost everything we have? 

Are you really saying that forma is privilege? Forma is cheap as dirt. You go with normal void fissure - forma. You upgrade to radiant - ... forma.

They maybe little bit efficient but at that point it's pointless. You know how much more energy you are getting from flawed flow? 12. That's doesn't make any difference unless you are using streamline.

35 minutes ago, (PSN)Rainbow_Neos1 said:

If my frame only has a polarity cost left of 5, why should I use the base flow if flawed is better? It's number crunching. Even mid players can use them but not if they sold them because they didn't recognize their potential. 

Mid players shouldn't care about stupid few percent in most cases. IN those cases were you need it you can do it with normal mods. I haven't used them.... I don't remember using them.

 

[(PSN)Rainbow_Neos1]

7 minutes ago, Uhkretor said:

... I fail to understand how flawed mods contribute to "build diversity", as build diversity is preferential per player... But don't try to explain it either, because I'll just deny any possible understanding...

 

Here's the thing... New players barely need flawed mods, yet they are given to introduce players to the modding system... First steps and all... They were never intended for use beyond, at most, Ceres and that is easily proven by how minimizing the bonus effect is when people start adding other mods... And the speed that players can get normal version of those mods before Mars is outstandingly fast...

The use of flawed mods will provide less efficiency from any weapon and/or warframe when compared to the same weapon and/or warframe that's using the normal versions.

 

... Less mod capacity used per mod? Sure, ok... But even the screenshots you so elegantly provided clearly show that the lower mod capacity does not compensate for the lack of power... And lets not forget that those new players will want to do the same content veterans already do, in which they take the Flawed mods and its clearly shown how irrelevant they actually are.... Which leads them to find the normal versions of those mods, effectively discarding Flawed mods from any use... Which takes me to the single existential fact regarding Flawed mods to anyone else that has completed the tutorial quest...

• Flawed mods are Tutorial Mods.
  • When their use is expired by natural game progression, normal mods always replace them
  • Flawed mods are effectively collection mods and used as bragging rights for owning them.

 

I don't think I've mentioned this before, but I fail to understand how - - oh wait, it's in the very first line of this post....

Somebody doesn't understand percent to polarity cost math. And apparently doesn't remember what it's like to be a new player. 

[(PSN)Rainbow_Neos1]

9 minutes ago, Uhkretor said:

But don't try to explain it either, because I'll just deny any possible understanding

Sums up most people on the forum perfectly. 

[Voltage]

Honestly Flawed Mods should just be removed from the game entirely or be permanently available. Their current state is annoying for new players who waste Endo on them, and annoying for collectors/older players who are missing them years later.

 

[(PSN)Rainbow_Neos1]

1 minute ago, Voltage said:

Honestly Flawed Mods should just be removed from the game entirely or be permanently available. Their current state is annoying for new players who waste Endo on them, and annoying for collectors/older players who are missing them years later.

 

I agree with this sentiment. Make it uniform. Bc if they don't exist then there's no "but my build could be slightly better and I'm upset I sold it" or if everyone has them then there's no qualms with such problem. Problem being they'd need to start everyone out with all those base mods in their normal form which could lose DE money from people who buy those essential damage mod bundles. I'd just like everyone to have them. My suggestion just requires farming bc I know DE doesn't like giving free stuff out again once you sold it accidentally or intentionally while uninformed. 

[(PSN)Rainbow_Neos1]

13 minutes ago, quxier said:

They maybe little bit efficient but at that point it's pointless. You know how much more energy you are getting from flawed flow? 12. That's doesn't make any difference unless you are using streamline.

It's a 22 energy difference on a frame with 100 energy base. That's not nothing. 

[quxier]

37 minutes ago, (PSN)Rainbow_Neos1 said:

It's a 22 energy difference on a frame with 100 energy base. That's not nothing. 

Ok, great, that's 1 cast of first ability... assuming you get that energy (kill eximus or get rng) and nothing steals it from you.

I don't find that kind of difference worth the effort to make it into Simaris. Of course I wouldn't mind if they add it.

[(PSN)Rainbow_Neos1]

9 minutes ago, quxier said:

Ok, great, that's 1 cast of first ability... assuming you get that energy (kill eximus or get rng) and nothing steals it from you.

I don't find that kind of difference worth the effort to make it into Simaris. Of course I wouldn't mind if they add it.

If you're not against it then why are you here against it all this time? If you didn't care, you'd have said nothing. 

[Pakaku]

2 hours ago, (PSN)Rainbow_Neos1 said:

This is for early mid players, dude. They may accidentally sell them. And they ARE more cost efficient. You call them bad but a flawed flow at polarity cost 5 gives 72% energy while normal gives 50%. They fit in builds better for a more impactful effect than their normal counterparts at the same rank. Why are you against this? Is maximum available efficiency not a right every player should have? 

Do early/mid players even have access to Simaris' wares at that point?

[Uhkretor]

4 hours ago, (PSN)Rainbow_Neos1 said:

Somebody doesn't understand percent to polarity cost math. And apparently doesn't remember what it's like to be a new player. 

If you say so.

 

I don't even predate Flawed mods, nor have I completed the tutorial quest when it was released, nor have I repeated the tutorial reworks (do note the important word "reworks") as many times as the "starting experience" was changed and nor do I help new players that join my Clan as recruits.

And, obviously, I don't keep a Mk1-Paris, a Mk1-Kunai, a Mk1-Braton and a Lato in order to help new players on equal footing so that they can actually learn how to deal with an overwhelming problem that they are facing at a given time.

And, surely, I obviously don't keep all Flawed mods nor performed practical field tests, non-simulacrum, of those mods performance with equipment that a new player would have at that time...

... Pfft... Who, me? nah... It would be really blasphemous otherwise...

 

Moving on, this was already asked by other players during these past, what, 5 years or so... DE hasn't added a single one to avoid cluttering Simaris shop. See, the Simaris shop - - You know, the one DE is shoving all the 1-time rewards (the ones that really matter) from quests, the very same one you're asking that mods rewarded by enemies during Vor's Prize (from the available flawed mods, only 3 are actually dropped by enemies during that quest and the rest are rewarded, like I mentioned, throughout the quest progression) - - was initially released to provide stuff for assisting players with scanning Synthesis Targets... You know, those blue colored whatever... Then DE made the brilliant decision to add 1-time rewards to the shop (and a few things that shouldn't have been added, but it was their decision and its their product), for stuff that people accidentally sold or wanted to have copies of, like Warframe blueprints that can't be obtained in any other way...

... The Wiki has written that Flawed mods (previously called as Damaged mods) are weaker than normal mods. A close analysis of your screenshots can prove that easily even if comparing %% gain per rank. DE confirmed the Flawed mods are weaker, even at equal mod ranks. The only thing they have going for them is lower mod capacity, but that beneficial "trait" (let's call it that) exists to allow new players to equip them with the least constraints possible... Which is something that doesn't happen to players that aren't new players anymore... And for those players, like you, that bothered into making new accounts to see how it feels to be a new player, it doesn't change the fact that you can do both Awakening and Vor's Prize quests without a single Flawed mod equipped simply because you're not a new player anymore and, therefore, your run as a "new player" has no validity whatsoever, in the first place.

... If I was a new player, I would be offended just by your pretensions alone, at this point... But since I'm not a new player, I was supposed to feel something but I can't and that, by itself, is worse than pity.

Until DE decides otherwise, and I can't stress enough how much Warframe is their product, cluttering the shop any further isn't happening. The fastest thing that might happen is, if it isn't already like that, having Vor's Prize be repeatable.

But, you really didn't need to make a new account to go through the experience of a new player. You could've just used a stripped, unsubsumed, starter frame with stripped Mk1 equipment (Skana is Mk1, even if it isn't in the name)... But then, you would have the problem of not having the Flawed mods, and the only way you could get them in your main account is exactly through Simaris because those Flawed mods are untradeable and you can't, as far as I know, repeat those quests to get those mods...

Just make the experiment out there, IRL:

• Damage your PC and see if its better than an undamaged one.
• Damage your fridge and see if it works better than an undamaged one.
• Damage your roofing and see if it stops water from getting in better than an undamaged one.
• Damage your car and see if it runs better than an undamaged one of the same make and model.

I could go on with examples, but it would honestly be a waste of time.

I'm pretty sure that I'm not the only one that has seen the purpose of your OP, and it isn't to state that Flawed mods are better than normal mods...

 

... Please, don't bury yourself any further than this so that you can have, at least, enough room to pull yourself back up... Because I'm sure as hell not going to get you out of that hole and, as soon as you've sunk deep enough, I'll just jump on top to help Mother Nature reclaim its evolutionary balance...

[(PSN)Rainbow_Neos1]

1 hour ago, Uhkretor said:

If you say so.

 

I don't even predate Flawed mods, nor have I completed the tutorial quest when it was released, nor have I repeated the tutorial reworks (do note the important word "reworks") as many times as the "starting experience" was changed and nor do I help new players that join my Clan as recruits.

And, obviously, I don't keep a Mk1-Paris, a Mk1-Kunai, a Mk1-Braton and a Lato in order to help new players on equal footing so that they can actually learn how to deal with an overwhelming problem that they are facing at a given time.

And, surely, I obviously don't keep all Flawed mods nor performed practical field tests, non-simulacrum, of those mods performance with equipment that a new player would have at that time...

... Pfft... Who, me? nah... It would be really blasphemous otherwise...

 

Moving on, this was already asked by other players during these past, what, 5 years or so... DE hasn't added a single one to avoid cluttering Simaris shop.See, Simaris shop... You know, the one DE is shoving all the 1-time rewards (the ones that really matter) from quests, the very same one you're asking that mods rewarded by enemies during Vor's Prize (from the available flawed mods, only 3 are actually dropped by enemies during that quest and the rest are rewarded, like I mentioned, throughout the quest progression) was initially released to provide stuff for assisting players with scanning Synthesis Targets... You know, those blue colored whatever... Then DE made the brilliant decision to add 1-time rewards to the shop (and a few things that shouldn't have been added, but it was their decision and its their product), for stuff that people accidentally sold or wanted to have copies of, like Warframe blueprints that can't be obtained in any other way...

... The Wiki has written that Flawed mods (previously called as Damaged mods) are weaker than normal mods. A close analysis of your screenshots can prove that easily even if comparing %% gain per rank. DE confirmed the Flawed mods are weaker, even at equal mod ranks. The only thing they have going for them is lower mod capacity, but that beneficial "trait" (let's call it that) exists to allow new players to equip them with the least constraints possible... Which is something that doesn't happen to players that aren't new players anymore... And for those players, like you, that bothered into making new accounts to see how it feels to be a new player, it doesn't change the fact that you can do both Awakening and Vor's Prize quests without a single Flawed mod equipped simply because you're not a new player anymore and, therefore, your run as a "new player" has no validity whatsoever, in the first place.

... If I was a new player, I would be offended just by your pretensions alone, at this point... But since I'm not a new player, I was supposed to feel something but I can't and that, by itself, is worse than pity.

Until DE decides otherwise, and I can't stress enough how much Warframe is their product, cluttering the shop any further isn't happening. The fastest thing that might happen is, if it isn't already like that, having Vor's Prize be repeatable.

But, you really didn't need to make a new account to go through the experience of a new player. You could've just used a stripped, unsubsumed, starter frame with stripped Mk1 equipment (Skana is Mk1, even if it isn't in the name)... But then, you would have the problem of not having the Flawed mods, and the only way you could get them in your main account is exactly through Simaris because those Flawed mods are untradeable and you can't, as far as I know, repeat those quests to get those mods...

Just make the experiment out there, IRL:

• Damage your PC and see if its better than an undamaged one.
• Damage your fridge and see if it works better than an undamaged one.
• Damage your roofing and see if it stops water from getting in better than an undamaged one.
• Damage your car and see if it runs better than an undamaged one of the same make and model.

I could go on with examples, but it would honestly be a waste of time.

I'm pretty sure that I'm not the only one that has seen the purpose of your OP, and it isn't to state that Flawed mods are better than normal mods...

 

... Please, don't bury yourself any further than this so that you can have, at least, enough room to pull yourself back up... Because I'm sure as hell not going to get you out of that hole and, as soon as you've sunk deep enough, I'll just jump on top to help Mother Nature reclaim its evolutionary balance...

I'm glad I usually read the conclusion and beginning of a post first. You aren't here to have actual conversation. 

[(PSN)Rainbow_Neos1]

2 hours ago, Pakaku said:

Do early/mid players even have access to Simaris' wares at that point?

Absolutely! New Strange is still very early on and you can do targets before then (although most people don't check relays out so I won't count that). They usually figure out the standing offerings after or during New Strange. That's without outside influence. 

[TheMagnificent]